| Author | Message | ||
     Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 686 Registered: 7-2002  |
I read somewhere that 90% of the world's guns are in America. Statistically, they are almost meaningless when it comes to protecting people. They also end up killing a lot of innocent people. This puerile fantasy of "blowing someone away" is a highly unlikely outcome. Children are often killed. Reject the stupidity of guns. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4384 Registered: 12-2001  |
Guns are very important to me. They remind me of the days when my ancestors lived on the frontier face to face with murderous savages (the ones that hadn't been exterminated by disease and the U.S. Cavalry) and their guns were their only line of defense. By extension, they remind of the days when America actually didn't need the rest of the world because we were autarkic and had really big moats on both coasts. So, by questioning gun ownership, you are realy questioning my whole fantasy world of the good old days. Next, you'll start to tell me that America has to be a good world citizen. And the next thing you know, it will be U.N. in blue tutus escorted black helicopters marching down Main Street, USA. No thank you. I think that a few thousand senseless gun deaths per year is a small price to pay for supporting the American fantasy. | ||
| MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 4013 Registered: 12-2004  |
For once I agree 100% with Ligeti. Can't even imagine why anyone would consider having one in their home. | ||
| K_soze Citizen Username: K_soze Post Number: 412 Registered: 11-2005  |
What if you like target/competition shooting? What if you want one just because it's your right to have one? What if a gun is as part of your life as a wedding band is to others? | ||
| Andy Citizen Username: Mapleman Post Number: 652 Registered: 6-2004  |
anyone who wants a handgun in their home should get one. those who aren't smart enough to observe the rules of handgun ownership will likely shoot themselves accidentally, thus taking their DNA out of the gene pool. it's applied Darwinism. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4387 Registered: 12-2001 |
K-soze, Here's the gospel according to Maplewood. If you like to shoot guns or, God forbid, own a gun, you are a murderous, sadistic killer. You have personality disorders. You don't fit into our community. In short, pack your bags and move-on. Thankey.  Seriously, though - it's the city-country divide. If you grow up not needing and using guns, then you tend to regard them with a good deal of suspicion. If you grow up in the country, guns are part of life. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3456 Registered: 5-2001  |
What if you want one just because it's your right to have one? K-soze: it is my right to stand outside my home chanting the lyrics to songs from lesser-known Broadway shows while wearing an aardvark costume. Is that, all by itself, a reason to do so? | ||
| S.L.K. 2.0 Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1733 Registered: 10-2005  |
I like guns, they relieve stress....  -SLK | ||
| K_soze Citizen Username: K_soze Post Number: 420 Registered: 11-2005 |
it is my right to stand outside my home chanting the lyrics to songs from lesser-known Broadway shows while wearing an aardvark costume. Is that, all by itself, a reason to do so You're being rediculous.........no one has an aardvark costume My point is people can have guns if they want. I don't always agree with it but that's how it is. ME says she can't imagine anyone needing one. Well I think ahe can't imagine herself needing one, which is fine, but there are people who want/have guns for other than the obvous reasons and that should be fine too | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider  Post Number: 14754 Registered: 1-2003  |
Statistically, they are almost meaningless when it comes to protecting people. I've read statistics to refute that claim, though I don't remember where. And I am most certainly not a gun advocate. It is a given that there are armed, violent people. A gun is one way to deal with that fact. Sometimes, they work. When compiling statistics, be sure to normalize for incidents where a gun didn't go off because the defender merely brandished his gun. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1146 Registered: 7-2005  |
Statistics go out the window when you're faced with an agressor in your home. I say let Americans have handguns, rifles, and shotguns...but no automatics...no no. | ||
| K_soze Citizen Username: K_soze Post Number: 425 Registered: 11-2005 |
What about a Glock 18? | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1148 Registered: 7-2005 |
Yeah not the 18 either. With the exception of law enforcement. | ||
| Cougar86 Citizen Username: Cougar86 Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 |
Guns are too dangerous to have in your house, even for home protection. Recently I buried land mines around my property in order to protect myself. The kids have been given up to date maps but damn its doing a job on the local dear population.... | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2057 Registered: 3-2004 |
I guess that the debate about owning guns has two sides: If you live in urban/suburban NJ and you're feeling the need to compensate for some under-sized organ or other, a gun might be just the thing for you (but it should be a hunting rifle with a good long barrel, not some short-barreled pistol or even a carbine). If you live in the country (a place where people have grown up with guns and hunt) that's another situation. I keep a hunting rifle in our place in Vermont and I hunt with my neighbors. We're all well schooled in hunting safety and etiquette. Several of us can still "field strip" a weapon and maintain it in good condition. And our hunts are usually successful. As to having a gun in NJ, in Essex County: there's no need, unless you're law enforcement or you really have to compensate for that under-sized appendage. | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 401 Registered: 8-2001 |
So Innis - I asked this on the other topic - what are women gun owners "compensating" for? When there is nothing to add everyone falls on the overcompensating excuse (see SUV thread). (Maybe rifle owners are reeaaallllyy compensating for small organs since they buy something with a "long" barrel?)  | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2059 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have no idea what women are compensating for---perhaps they really are males under the skin: male gun owners outnumber female gun owners in this country by a nearly 18 to 1 margin. Rifle owners who hunt buy weapons with longer barrels because that's how rifles have traditionally been turned by gunsmiths, in order to have a degree of range and accuracy. As you say, "when there is nothing to add everyone falls on the overcompensating excuse." Perhaps everyone does that because the notion contains a heuristic amount of irony and sarcasm. And what's wrong with that? | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1134 Registered: 1-2006  |
"Heuristic" is what's wrong with that. What is sesquipedalianism compensating for?  J.B. I'm curious because I think only sesquipedalians know the word "sesquipedalianism." | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1150 Registered: 7-2005 |
Innisowen, you have no idea what you are talking about. | ||
| Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 690 Registered: 7-2002 |
Another thing. What is the satisfaction in shooting animals? Is that another huge ego booster? | ||
| MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 4029 Registered: 12-2004 |
Again, I have to say I am 100% in agreement with Ligeti. This seems to be becoming a habit. Can't say as I've ever understood the attraction of shooting and killing another living thing. Sport? Hardly seems so. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4397 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ligeti, You really need to get out of suburban New Jersey. Perhaps you should spend some time in parts of Pennsylvania where the opening day of deer season is a school holiday. It is, or was, a right of passage for boys - a time when they could spend some quality time with their fathers. It isn't specifically about killing an animal. I have never gone deer hunting, but, I have done a fair bit of small game hunting. More often than not, it was a day of walking through fields with my father with nothing more to show for it than a day spent with my father. | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1282 Registered: 5-2003 |
There are plenty of ways that fathers and sons (or daughters) can spend quality time together without guns or hunting. I'm with Ligeti on this one. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1155 Registered: 7-2005 |
An SUV probably does more damage to the environment in a trip to the supermarket than a hunter does in an entire season. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4398 Registered: 12-2001 |
Lizziecat, Ligeti, Meandtheboys: Please provide a comprehensive list of approved activities. I just spoke to some friends in Potter County, PA and they are anxiously awaiting approval for suburban New Jersey for all that they do. It seems to me that this sort of preaching does more to keep George Bush and the NRA powerful than anything those organizations do for themselves. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1964 Registered: 6-2003  |
Killing animals for pleasure. Not my idea of quality time. | ||
| Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 691 Registered: 7-2002 |
I'm glad my dad and I found things to do together besides walk through fields and kill little animals (even though the killing, as you say, doesn't mean that much). Hunting is cowardly, no doubt about it. | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 402 Registered: 8-2001 |
So it's okay to have your food killed in a slaughterhouse but not okay to hunt for food? (I'm not talking about big game trophy hunters or someone looking to put a mount over their fireplace - which I don't approve of). I assume you're vegans then, right? BTW - I am not a hunter... | ||
| The Soullful Mr T Citizen Username: Howardt Post Number: 2091 Registered: 11-2004  |
I agree that guns are an unnecessary and dangerous nuisance...but, man, oh, man, when I see them fcukin' squirrels in my backyard methinks twice....if I only had a gun....BAM! BAM! BAM! | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 403 Registered: 8-2001 |
Speaking of squirrels (kind of) is anyone having a huge influx of rabbits in their yards? I'm seeing more than usual these past few weeks... | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4399 Registered: 12-2001 |
Montagnard, I'll add you to the list of people authorized to preach to all Americans regarding appropriate father-son/daughter activities. Potter County, PA and other hunting areas eagerly await your judgement. As usual, you think hunting is about the killing of animals when, in fact, a hunting trip is much more than a reason to kill animals. Oh, is fishing OK with you guys? I understand it hurts the fish when they get hooked. But you are a vegan, right? You have consistency behind your sermonizing. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 2479 Registered: 7-2003 |
Well I hope you enjoy jumping in your Prius, and driving on down to Whole Foods to pay entirely too much for “Organic” meats, the return to your house where I can only assume you eat it raw, as to not use any natural resources. Then lick the plates clean so you don’t waste water. I on the other hand have eaten many meals where %90 of the food has come from our farm, and hunting or fishing. Isn’t that the way you’re supposed to get back to nature? | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1283 Registered: 5-2003 |
Newone; Yes, we have a rabbit family in our yard: a mother, father, and three babies. We watched the mother nursing the babies a couple of weeks ago. They were tiny little things, about the size of a tennis ball, with little white tails. Now they're bigger, and on their own, eating grass and weeds. We have also had a huge increase in the chipmunk population this year. Maybe Tjohn would like to bring his guns and go hunting. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1156 Registered: 7-2005 |
"Hunting is cowardly, no doubt about it. " I'd say sitting in a tree, lying in wait for a creature multiple times your size, with big, deadly claws, antlers and teeth would be 'smart' not 'cowardly. Did people call Goliath cowardly when he killed goliath (with a slingshot I believe)? No. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4400 Registered: 12-2001 |
Sorry Lizzie, I haven't gone hunting in almost 20 years and probably won't ever again. My interest in hunting has declined in proportion to available open space. And, I am quite sure my daughters would not be interested. Newone - get a cat. Cats murder baby rabbits for pleasure. But it's natural, so the rabbits don't suffer as they would if you or I went hunting for them. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4401 Registered: 12-2001 |
Glock, Have you been hunting mythological creatures again? I have yet to see a deer with big, deadly claws. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1158 Registered: 7-2005 |
I clumped all of the features of hunted animals together... Bears, Deer, Moose, more scary bears..etc etc | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 404 Registered: 8-2001 |
Tjohn - there not in my yard (in a condo) but I've been seeing them running all over the place... Saw one on Saturday cross 4 lanes of traffic on S. Springfield Ave in Springfield only to jump through the openings in the bridge that goes over Rt. 22 - 30 feet above 22 west  (saw a Wiley Coyote cartoon in my head) | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11875 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cats are cruel. More than once we have chased a neighborhood cat out of our yard as he was toying with a cute, cuddly chipmunk. I think cats should be banned. The government should seize them all and drown them!! Glock, I know you aren't religious but it was David who did in Goliath. We ran into a bunch of cowboy action shooters at a Comfort Inn a couple of years ago. Basically these folks dress up in old west attire and compete with single action revolvers, lever action rifles and double barrel shotguns. They also use assumed names in the competition such as Saloon Sally and Black River Rick. While it is a little discomforting to see a bunch of people who look like extras in a western movie clomp through the lobby lugging their hardware, they seem to have a good time and no baby rabbits are killed during their competitions. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1161 Registered: 7-2005 |
Woops, brain freeze. (Goliath vs. Goliath!) But I found some statistics that support what I thought. In 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S: 16,907 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths), 11,920 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths), 730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths), 347 from legal intervention and 232 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined). In 2004, 42,636 people died in car crashes in the U.S. So to all those parents who give their kids the Mercedes-Benz's and BMW's I see in the CHS parking lot...yep... |
