| Author | Message | ||
     Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 815 Registered: 10-2005 |
Aren't we over this "I'm a kid at heart until I'm 50, than you can call me Mr./Mrs.? I find this completely bizarre, and partially creepy; I don't want my kids feeling so "cozy" around adults to use their first names, and its so widespread, that my wife and I are struggling getting our kids to comply with how we want them to address people. Honestly, whether or not a 4 y/o kid calls me Mr., has no impact on how young/old I feel. Aren't we over this 1999 uber-casual dot-com California bull-sh$t yet? | ||
| Paper Bag Bandit Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1227 Registered: 7-2005  |
Why do you care so much? If someone wants to be addressed a certain way that is not only their choice..it's their right. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 818 Registered: 10-2005 |
Clearly somebody who has to ask a parent why they care about ANY element of their childrens lives, is: 1) Not fit to be a parent OR 2) Still a kid themselves Check-in with me in a decade when you have your kids, than I'll pay attention to what you have to say. | ||
| Paper Bag Bandit Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1230 Registered: 7-2005 |
That has nothing to do with it. If an adult wants to be called by their first name...so be it. It has NOTHING to do with parenting. Get over it. | ||
| The3ofUs Citizen Username: The3ofus Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2006 |
Loosen up, Smarty...this isn't Victorian England. | ||
| Morrisa da Silva Citizen Username: Mod Post Number: 477 Registered: 12-2003 |
I believe what you have a child call an adult depends on how long they know each other and in what capacity. My children call parents of friends Mr. or Mrs. So and So unless they know them well and/or are family friends. Many of the children of my friends call me by my first name - but I have known many of them for more then 10 years. It would be strangely informal under those circumstances to remain Mrs. da Silva. In addition any adults who are caregivers (except teachers) often want to be called by first names. We continue to call adults in authority such as scout leaders etc. by their last names even if we have known them a long time. Ultimately, in the scheme of things I don't think how we address people is as important as how we treat them. There are kids who are unerringly polite but when out of earshot show no respect for adults, while there are others who may need a little polishing of their manners but are truly respectful. Just my 2 cents. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 819 Registered: 10-2005 |
It has everything to do with it. In 15 years or so, should you decide to have kids, you will quickly learn that complying with what other adults want is an extremely poor approach to parenting, which will lead to disasterous outcomes....running with the pack might be an attractive option as a teenager (like you)...but that is the easy way out, and it isn't an acceptable approach to parenting. You will also reflect back and muse how immature and clueless you were regarding anything related to adult/parenting. I did it too....but unfortunately, you will never know until you know. In the meantime, call your parents and tell them you love them. 3ofus, I'm not sure what your saying or suggesting? "Loosen Up" is a horribly empty statement/post. | ||
| Joanne G Citizen Username: Joanne Post Number: 236 Registered: 10-2004 |
Without picking on anyone, I choose to be called by my given name rather than as 'Aunt' or 'Mrs' by most young people including my nieces and nephews because I kept getting too confused as a child as to who I was related to and who was an adopted relative. Biiiiig family with wide age difference. I hate being called Mrs. I will barely accept Ms, even by colleagues or professionals - I think of myself as Joanne and that's my name. Young people know their relationship to me, and know how to respect me. They can refer to me as David's wife, or their aunt or whatever the realtionship is but call me by my given name. What's hard about that?  | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 820 Registered: 10-2005 |
Joanne, what do your kids do? | ||
| combustion Citizen Username: Spontaneous Post Number: 142 Registered: 4-2006  |
The children I interact with most are my nieces and nephews, so I'm called "Aunt Spontaneous". The few children I interact with who I'm not related to were introduced to me by their parents. A few call me "Miss Spontaneous," the others just call me "Spontaneous." I've never been called "Mrs. Combustion" by any child as their parents failed to introduce me that way and I'd feel pretentious interjecting with "Please call me Mrs Combustion." When introduced by a parent, I've NEVER said, "You can call me Spontaneous." In my limited experience it seems that the parents are at least partially to blame for the informality. On a side note, I agree that being addressed as Mrs. won't make me feel any older. But being called Ma'am? Maybe it's a female thing, but that does make me feel a lot older. | ||
| algebra2 Supporter Username: Algebra2 Post Number: 4128 Registered: 5-2001  |
Many women don't take the husband's last name so a Mrs. So-and-so doesn't make sense. Also, we have always had many single friends and having our kid call them Miss. Smith doesn't seem right. Then there are friends and neighbors who aren't married. Whatever the reason is my son is used to a first name only thing. It's just evolved that way. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1851 Registered: 10-2002  |
I don't have kids, but respect whatever the parents of the children ask them to conform to - whether that be "Aunt LilLB" or "Mrs. or Ms. LilLB" or just plain "LilLB" - I don't really care. I figure if they're throwing the Aunt or Mrs in there it's because they're trying to teach their children that adults are on a different level than kids and it's a measure of respect. I don't think it's disrespectful, however, if they just use my first name. So, that's my long-winded explanation about the fact that it really doesn't matter to me either way. | ||
| mlj Citizen Username: Mlj Post Number: 285 Registered: 6-2001 |
This is interesting. I am not looking for an argument, just curious. If you bring up your children to address adults as Mr./Mrs. - how do you determine the adult status of the older person, at what age, 18, 21, 25, older? It is across the board, i.e. does the relationship come into play, such as, teacher, coach, stranger? Any different if person is a good friend? Next door neighbor? What is the underlying issue? Hoping to instill in your child certain respectful, or other attitude toward the child's elders? Hoping to avoid being too friendly? (Personally, I was young and stupid, but I never felt young at heart. I do prefer to be addressed by first name unless it is a formal business matter.) (Now I try to avoid being both older and maybe stupider.) | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11924 Registered: 5-2001 |
With a few people we have known since our kids were little all the kids call us by our first names and vice versa. I really don't know how this started. Among family first names are pretty much standard, with the exception of one set of kids who use Aunt and Uncle, which I suspect is their father's influence. Now our kids are in their 20s it seems strange that their friends still call us Mr. and Mrs., but they do. Many of these kids we have known for years, but aren't close to their families. | ||
| Joanne G Citizen Username: Joanne Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2004 |
Smarty, I am unable to bear children however all the children I have worked with and taught or mentored have called me by my first name as not doing so makes me feel uncomfortable, and we have been taught that that is rude. Children I fostered for government and international organisations called me Joanne. I may be introduced as Ms G... but then I ask them to call me Joanne so it is clear that is is my choice. All understood my reasons and also my relationship with them, and all treated me with respect or bore the appropriate penalty for disrespect (which is another topic and I'm not getting into that tonight). There are people who are in their 90s that my siblings and I still call 'aunty' or 'uncle' who are not related to us; and there are some people it seems odd to ever call by their first names. But these days customs seem much more relaxed without being disrespectful - at least in Australia! - and in my aged care community work I am on first names basis with all my first-time contacts who are decades older than me. I think tone of voice, and posture, and eye contact are more important than the title used. I won't be addressed by someone being sullen, or mumbling, or speaking with a mouth full (like a kid tonight), or interrupted - I'd rather have sincerity and open communication than fuss over a title. Hope that helps. | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 2359 Registered: 11-2001  |
There are parents of friends whom I always refer to Mr. or Mrs. X. I have even, on some occasions, been told to address friends' parents by their first names, but as I grew up with these friends, I knew their parents as Mr./Mrs. and I can't do it. My children's friends, on the other hand, call me by my first name. I prefer it. As Algebra2 alluded to above, I am one of those women who didn't change my name when I married, so my children have different last names. I never was Mrs. S****, and I don't like to be referred to as Miss S**** (my maiden name) so I just go with my first name. It has nothing at all to do with how young or old I feel, it's just my personal comfort level. It's all a matter of personal choice, no? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4423 Registered: 12-2001  |
This issue is far too important to left to personal choice. I call upon the T.C. to establish a legally binding policy and then direct the MPD to enforce the policy without exception. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 711 Registered: 7-2004  |
I think we should be addressing everyone as Mr/Mrs/Ms on MOL. A good, formal environment would minimize the arguments. | ||
| Hillsider Supporter Username: Hillsider Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2004 |
One thing missing from this discussion, is how do the addressees want to be addressed... I would ask them what they want to be called and have my kid call them that... so if we have a stuffy person with a Victorian hangover, they can be Mr. or Mrs whatever... Others may choose to be called by their first name... Most wouldn't care and stick with the default that the parents choose... The is no reason to have a one standard fits all policy... | ||
| Joanne G Citizen Username: Joanne Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2004 |
Just a further thought: in my family, my mother was known as Maman or Mummy - she was French. Dad was actually called Daddy until we felt it was too childish then we started to abbreviate it in true Aussie style - and he died and remained Daddy whenever we speak about him. All but one of my grandparents were dead; mum's mum had a nickname which we used instead of a title. My sister's in-laws were known as Apu and Anyu, Hungarian for Mum and Dad. This made it easy to chose the grandparent names when children came along and so the three living grandparents were known as Maman, Apu and Anyu. Now that my brother has children there are no living grandparents on any side. None of their aunts or uncles want to be called Aunty or Uncle, from what I hear (kids are still under 5). I knew my in-laws before I met their son, my husband. So I call them by their first names. If I had had children I would have been Mummy or Mum. To David's niece and nephew, although I am an aunt by marriage, I am Joanne. It's all quite simple really: we don't call the kids 'Niece Lisa', 'Master Paul' so why should they call us anything special if we don't wish it? | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 733 Registered: 7-2003 |
My children and my friends children refer to adults as Mr/Mrs (first name). ie. Mr. John or Mrs. Jane... | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5438 Registered: 1-2004  |
I think it depends on the situation. Sometimes I leave it up to the parent how they want their child to address me. Some call me "Miss JTA" others by my first name; I can't remember if any call me by my last name. With my nephews who live with me, they call most of the parents of their classmates "Mr or Mrs Last Name." There are some adults they call by their first name, but not many. My friends for example they call by thier first name because we don't have a problem with it. They have asked me what they should have my nephews call them and I've told them whatever they are comfortable with. Here's a funny story. About 15 years ago when I was doing some sub work I ran into one of the more cool and hip teacher from my grade school days. After saying "Hello! Mr So and So" he told me I should call him by his first name. Okay, I though, not a problem. The next day it was "Good Morning Mr So and So." He told again, it was okay to call him by his first name. I just couldn't do it. Don't know why. There was a teacher in high school everyone in our class called by his first name; except me. Same with college. I had a hard time addressing some of my professors by their first name. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3369 Registered: 9-2003 |
There's also a regional thing. I was raised in the south and called my parents' friends and our neighbors Mz. first name and Mr. first name. My Jersey-raised husband's parent's close friends were Aunt & Uncle. Our children, raised in the "north" called our some of our close friends Aunt & Uncle while other friends preferred to be addressed by their first names. I think that whatever the adult prefers is the proper way for them to be addressed. | ||
| Bettina Citizen Username: Bettina Post Number: 158 Registered: 8-2004 |
I always go by my first name with friends of my children. I don't know why. When I was a kid, I loved the two adults who asked me to call them by their first names. It didn't make them seem young, it made me feel grown-up. But now that it's almost standard, it's lost its specialness anyway. I have to agree that maybe it would be better if kids called us all Mr. and Mrs. or Ms. I'm beginning to feel more and more old-fashioned as I get older. And frankly, when my kids' friends say my first name in conjunction with a request for something to drink that frankly often feels like a demand, it's irksome. | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 5950 Registered: 2-2003  |
Ditto Bettina, I always felt so grown up when an adult asked me to call them by their first name. Smarty--if you don't like it, don't let your kids call adults by their first names. That is your choice as a parent. To say someone isn't a good parent because they don't enforce is over the top. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3542 Registered: 5-2001 |
The etiquette gurus say that the proper form of address (for everyone, not just children) to use with adults is to say Mr. or Mrs. xxx until/unless that person invites you to use their first name (or some other name.) In certain cases, e.g. schoolteachers, the employer or other entity dictates to those people what they should allow children to call them, but in most cases it is the choice of the person being addressed. Our society has widely disregarded this etiquette rule when it comes to adults addressing adults and, more recently, with children addressing adults. With my children, as well as other children with whom I am acquainted, I have tried to teach that rule. However, I have also invited those children, other than my own, to call me by my first name in most cases. An exception is when I volunteer at school or at my church. In both cases, it is the preference of the organization that adults be addressed as Mr/Mrs xxx, so I follow that as well when I'm there. When my Girl Scouts see me at school, I sometimes have to remind them not to use my first name there, but they don't seem confused about it when I do so. They understand the rule and are fine with it. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 822 Registered: 10-2005 |
Red, I didn't say using first names= bad parenting. I said people who ignore their responsibility to decide whats best for their kids are bad parents. There's a big difference between the statements. After reading these, it strikes me that for various reasons we (our society)are all just confused over Naming Conventions. | ||
| Camnol Citizen Username: Camnol Post Number: 387 Registered: 3-2005 |
I tell my children that they have to be invited to call an adult by his/her first name, as sac describes above. Respect seems to be on the decline and it's just one of my pathetic attempts to hold onto it. | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 2362 Registered: 11-2001 |
Good point, Sac. I have friends who are a bit older than I and my children's friends' parents. When I introduce these friends to my kids, I always use Mr./Mrs./Ms., but invariably, my friends will use their first names. Again, personal choice, but if the TC has nothing better to do, I am sure they could come up with a regulation, tjohn. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 823 Registered: 10-2005 |
Heck, the TC passes resolutions on National Politics....maybe we could pass a Resolution? You can never have too many resolutions. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2892 Registered: 9-2003  |
I'm with sac and camnol. I gotta admit it feels odd to have a 5 year old address by my first name without Ms/Miss/Mrs./Aunt in front of it. Product of more conservative times. The hell of it is, when my daughter was younger, most of the time the formula was more like "Bobby's Mom, can we go outside?" because to kids, you're mostly some's parent! | ||
| Andy Citizen Username: Mapleman Post Number: 653 Registered: 6-2004  |
I respectfully disagree Mr. Smarty. Children shouldn't address adults at all. They shouldn't call me Mr. or god forbid "Andy," or sir, or any other appellation. Chidren should be seen and NOT heard. Period. | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 5956 Registered: 2-2003 |
Smarty why is it bad parenting if a parent allows a child to call an adult by the first name? I have my children call everyone Mr. or Mrs. unless otherwise requested by the adult. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 826 Registered: 10-2005 |
Red, please re-read my post to you at 1:42, I think it answers your question. | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 5958 Registered: 2-2003 |
No, it didn't you said "people who ignore what is best for there kids" and also stating before that parents are "complying with what other adults do" From this I concluded (maybe incorrectly) that you believe that if a parent thinks it is okay for a child to call an adult by his/her first name it is not a good parenting style....am I reading into it? | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 827 Registered: 10-2005 |
From this I concluded (maybe incorrectly) that you believe that if a parent thinks it is okay for a child to call an adult by his/her first name it is not a good parenting style....am I reading into it? Yes. I was replying to an earlier statement that suggested to let other people dictate how your Kids behave, and to be indifferent. I think that is bad parenting. If you choose to have you kids call people by their first name and are comfy with that; I don't question that Parenting, however it makes me curious about why you would go that direction, as it's not the direction that we have chosen. | ||
| anotherkittie Citizen Username: Anotherkittie Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2006 |
Because Mrs. Anotherkittie is my mother-in-law. | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 500 Registered: 4-2002 |
My child and her friends used to always address me as "child's Mom". Around the age of 6 or so, they realized that I have a first name, and most of them now call me by it. It doesn't come from disrespect, my child hears me refer to her friend's moms by their given name, and to her, that's the person's name and what she calls her. When I get phonecalls from friend's moms,and child answers they identify themselves to my child by their own name, not Mrs. Y. The exceptions to this rule are teachers and adults who child does not have a relationship with. Also, as others have noted, I ,too have a different last name from my child, so I am not Mrs. Child's Last name. Plus, I prefer to be called by my own first name. If I wanted to be called Ms Campbell, I would simply correct the child and it would be no big deal. (or at least not something that would generate the discussion it has here) | ||
| Suzanne Ng Citizen Username: Suzanneng Post Number: 809 Registered: 3-2002 |
As a teacher of some little MOLers and a frequent MOL poster, I find myself in an awkward position sometimes. I post/email to MOLers using their screennames, because that is how I know them. Later when we meet F2F, or I realize who their child is, I try to switch over to Mr/Mrs LastName, but the informality of email usually leads to the use of first names. Now I'm really confused!!! Ess & Alg2 -- see what you got me into???  | ||
| Hamandeggs Citizen Username: Hamandeggs Post Number: 319 Registered: 8-2005 |
Yes, this is a tricky issue. It's also cultural, deeply so for some people, especially in langs/places/cultures that have titles that are in between Mr. and "Hey, Joe." Here's what my kids do. They use first names for non-related adults they've known since babyhood, mostly because they learned those names before they understood relationships, titles, etc. (The exceptions to this are doctors, clergy, or others they have known only by title.) From kindergarten on, no more Miss Jennifer or simply Jennifer, but Mrs./Ms./Dr./Mr Jones, etc. Because I prefer that my kids use honorifics, i don't sweat it if they hook the kid's last name onto the parent who has another last name. It happens to me all the time, and I know exactly who is being addressed. I think it's enough that the kids know one anther's full names; to know the whole family's system is a lot of info for a kid. I feel the same with hyphenated names; a reasonable effort on the kid's part counts for a lot. I am a Quaker and it is (or was -- I hear it among older folks) common among Quakers to address people by the whole name. So I do hear my kids refer to and address adults as Cecily Jones, which is okay. This came up recently at work. Many people said that they compromise with Aunt and Uncle used as honorary titles. |
