| Author | Message | ||
     Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 850 Registered: 8-2005 |
Well the DUI certainly. Who knows who he could have killed. And anything anti-semetic (or racist, or sexist...etc.) bothers me. So the part where I am now sure you were kidding is: 'I don't get it. What did Mel say that was wrong?' | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1453 Registered: 2-2006  |
Dear Alley: Keep your pants on..I never defended him and stated clearly that I am not a Mel Gibson fan. I feel very strongly about fanatics no matter who they are or what they do for a living. He is a religious fanatic and that's all I need to know. His issues are based on religion not race and his statements were hateful towards jewish believes and are not just racist. There is a difference which needs to be acknowledged. A racist could care less what religion you are, if you are educated, what you do for a living and what your believes are. A racist will have a problem with your skin color and to compare the two is a slap in anyones face who has been confronted with true racism. Yeah so the guy is an a*shole but to say that famous people are to be treated differently then other people because of their job is f*cked up too. They are people nothing more and nothing less. Can you truly state that you have NEVER made a derogatory remark towards any person based on their color, religion, sex, education etc.? You would be the first human being to be able to say so. I prefer a drunken stupid and ignorant celebrity that apologizes (however sincere it might or might not be) to the arrogant, hidden agenda, two faced and outright dangerous religious leaders of ALL faiths that continuously lift their people above all others based on teachings which have been translated, misinterpreted and retold based on events that happened thousands of years ago. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2861 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yes Bajou. But in your last sentence you've also described Mel Gibson and finally others are seeing him for what many of us saw earlier. Yes, he's not a religious leader or a politician. But, unfortunately, in this country, as a celebrity, he's considered by many as, if not more, important than either group. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1457 Registered: 2-2006 |
People who consider a celebrity to be of any importance to the global well being are even more dangerous then a drunken fanatic because stupidity, selfrightousness and ignorance will finish off this wonderful world of ours. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10282 Registered: 4-1997  |
Tell that to Ronald Regan ;-) The division between celebrity and brand has become tenuous these days. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1461 Registered: 2-2006 |
I don't blame Ronald Reagan for becoming the president. I blame the people that voted for him. Same goes for Schwarzenegger...how scary is that.. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2385 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hating someone for being Jewish is in fact Racism. Sorry. Go directly to jail, do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2011 Registered: 7-2004  |
But Jewish isn't a race. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2012 Registered: 7-2004 |
That would be like saying someone who hate Protestants is racist. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 864 Registered: 8-2005 |
'Racial anti-Semitism. With its origins in the early and popularly misunderstood evolutionary ideas of race that started during the Enlightenment, racial anti-Semitism became the dominant form of anti-Semitism from the late 19th century through today. Racial anti-Semitism replaced the hatred of Judaism as a religion with the idea that the Jews themselves were a racially distinct group, regardless of their religious practice, and that they were inferior or worthy of animosity. With the rise of racial anti-Semitism, conspiracy theories about Jewish plots in which Jews were somehow acting in concert to dominate the world became a popular form of anti-Semitic expression.' From Wikipedia | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2023 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'm not disputing that some people think that way. While race can mean many different things as pertaining to different subsets of any larger group, the most common use of the term race does not include religion as a dividing point. "Race • noun 1 each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics." - Oxofrd English Dictionary. I think the real thing for me is that a person can just change religions (yes I know after jumping through hoops). But a person cannot change their race. If Judaism were a race, Catholicism would be as well, and so would Protestantism, and next there would be a race of the Knights of Columbus. Race (whether you like the word or not) in its simplest form for this context is just a word to separate groups of people by how they look, not what the think or do, or by what religion they belong to. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 866 Registered: 8-2005 |
I can buy that | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 867 Registered: 8-2005 |
But wrong wrong wrong! | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2386 Registered: 10-2004 |
I am not religious and yet I am Jewish. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2025 Registered: 7-2004 |
I am not religious and yet I am catholic. But that has nothing to do with my race. | ||
| kriss Citizen Username: Kriss Post Number: 321 Registered: 6-2001 |
Are you seriously saying that being a Jew is only about where you decide to worship? Come on...you're just trying to start a fight, right? | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2026 Registered: 7-2004 |
Don't twist my words. I did not say that "being a Jew is only about where you decide to worship." All I am saying is that Judaism is not a race. To many people religion is many different things. It can mean a lot or a little to different people. To some people it means different things. It is not however a race. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2027 Registered: 7-2004 |
All I am saying is this: Based on the most widely accept use of the word "race"; Judaism is not a race, it is a religion. Unless you want to argue that all Jewish people have similar external features or physical characteristics that make them physically different from other races such as white, black, asian, etc... | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 208 Registered: 8-2005 |
Well it was released publicly I'm Only, for this reason. Because celebrity is the fodder for a lot of talk. Look at the Tom/Kat crap we have been innundated with, and the Brangelina junk. There are millions of people who have heard the cops story, told to the press and thus made a national topic of news, so simply apologizing to the cops, while perhaps the more honest way to go, wouldn't have satisfied "the masses". In other words, this is a PR move, not a heartfelt apology, which is exactly my point. And you really the media covering one of the world's biggest stars when gets caught driving drunk, resisiting arrest, and spewing anti-semetic venom is the same thing as the Suri Cruise nonsense? Sorry, I don't see the parallel. Also, let's not generalize about fame. Most actors, certainly Mel at the start, do not want to be "famous". those folks end up in dead end jobs frustrated and cynical (more often than not) some do start out with that desire and achieve it and it either empowers them or destroys them. Most actors want to act. Fame and celebrity are a result of, in the case of film actors, the studio driven publicity machine. What a bunch of nonsense. You don't want to be famous? Don't make movies. You want to act but don't want to be famous? Work in theater. You want to act in movies but don't want to be famous? Don't make big studio blockbusters. The idea that Mel Gibson (Mel Gibson!) didn't want to be famous is absurd. Sure, maybe that's what he says in interviews (and why do those interviews if you don't want to be famous?), but that sort of false humility is Hollywood cliche No. 1. Give me a break. Look, it's totally obvious that Mel is an egomaniac ("I own Malibu!") and a bigot. It's been obvious for quite some time, and now there's hard evidence. I cannot imagine why anyone would even consider supporting him or cutting him slack. This is going to destroy his career, and personally I'm happy to see it happen. And I'm not sure what the point is of debating whether Jews are a "race" or not. What difference does it make? Anti-semitism is vile. I think we're getting off track here. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2387 Registered: 10-2004 |
So ABC dropped it's plans to air Mel Gibsons made for tv film about the Holocaust. Which is more outrageous that ABC thinks it will hide the movie for a while until this all blows over or that Mel was even making a movie aobut he Holocaust at all. I must say, I'm curious what political agenda of his he buried in that movie. Maybe it's something like the Jews caused World War Two because they wanted to be slaughtered?!? | ||
| mlj Citizen Username: Mlj Post Number: 350 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mel said 'I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable.' My immediate reaction was that this is an arms-distance acknowledgement and he should have stated strongly "I was out of control when I was arrested and said things I do not believe..." Then he would have to explain why he said them and does he remember saying them. To me, that is taking responsibility. And as he is an entertainer, he runs the risk of turning off the public by acting like a wacko. I think this behavior was worse than Russell Crowe behaving like an idiot, and he was not behind the wheel of a car. | ||
| Ukealalio Citizen Username: Ukealalio Post Number: 2597 Registered: 6-2003 |
This whole race/religion issue as far as Jews are concerned is a touchy issue. There were plenty of non-religous Jews in Europe during WW2, some may have converted to Christianity. This did not stop Hitler from slaughtering millions of what he called the Jewish race. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2028 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ukealalio, that is true. However, I would not take cues on race from Hitler. | ||
| PrettyPrincess Citizen Username: Prettyprincess Post Number: 96 Registered: 6-2006  |
You guys post this long of a thread about Mel GIBSON? | ||
| Njnetsfan4life Citizen Username: Njnetsfan Post Number: 584 Registered: 6-2004  |
LOS ANGELES (August 1) - An official police report on Mel Gibson's arrest on drunken driving charges substantiates claims that he made anti-Semitic remarks and threatened a deputy, a law enforcement official said Monday. On Monday, Sheriff's Department officials sent prosecutors their case, which also says a tequila bottle was found in Gibson's car when he was pulled over on the Pacific Coast Highway. Gibson had released a lengthy statement Saturday apologizing for saying "despicable" things to sheriff's deputies when he was arrested, but he did not elaborate. The entertainment Web site TMZ.com had reported that the sheriff's department was considering eliminating the anti-Semitic remarks from its official report. The report forwarded to prosecutors cites Gibson as making disparaging comments about Jews, according to the law enforcement official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter. The district attorney's office confirmed prosecutors had received the case and it was under review. A tentative arraignment date was set for Sept. 28. THIS IS FROM AOL ENTERTAINMENT NEWS! | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6799 Registered: 12-2001  |
I'm Only Sleeping. Do you know any real actors? Artists, musicians, Filmmakers? Do they all want to be "famous"? I do what I do because I love it, I am good at it, and because I believe that theatre and film are important to a culture. I have studied and trained up to the Masters level because I am committed to it. I do not want to be famous. I want to work. As much as possible and to that work the best way I know how. What you seem to understand about the psychology of people in the entertainment business,based on this thread, could fit in a thimble. You have issues with Mel, thats fine. But to presume that he wanted to be famous from the get go is wrong on both of our parts. You can't know and I shouldn't have assumed that either. What I can say is that the people I know and have had the pleasure to work with who are "famous" are grounded people who really want to have a job. The fame is not the incentive. It is a by-product of being good at what you do. As I said, "Fame" can be created. And it is by the many "Reality" series on TV. The number of presumptions in the paragraph are crazy.
Ok apon re-reading this it is really clear you don't understand very much about working in "the biz" How does my or anyone elses making of films directly lead to fame?? I do work in the theatre A LOT, as for BIG STUDIO blockbusters I have no intention to do that, but if the opportunity were to arise why shouldn't I seize that opportunity to allow myself to create something I feel has worth and take home a nice paycheck to make up for all the years I worked for nothing? I am talking about me, not MEL. As for the interview comment, this was the kicker. If you are good enough/bankable enough (it is usually a mixture of each)to land a lead role in a studio driven or really high end Indie, you are sent on press junkets. It is usually in the contract and is part of the job. Yes, the JOB of being an actor. It has nothing to do with fame. So, you have made it clear that you have serious issues with Mel Gibson...thats cool. I don't much care for the work of Jim Carrey...whatever floats your boat. But the generalizations you make about him and through him about being in the "business" are not grounded in the realities of the business. The Hollywood cliche #1, by the way, is that someone gets discovered sitting at a soda fountain. a la Lana Turner. as for the race vs religion thing. One does not equal the other. As far as I know. Sammy Davis Jr converted to judaism because he came to accept that belief system. But his race remaind Black/African American/Negro...whatever word you want to use. | ||
| Njnetsfan4life Citizen Username: Njnetsfan Post Number: 585 Registered: 6-2004 |
People are forgetting that Mel Gibson's FATHER SAYS THAT THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED | ||
| mlj Citizen Username: Mlj Post Number: 353 Registered: 6-2001 |
NJ - I know about this and think he is still alive, age 87. I think the son cannot get to the heart of his inner demons while the father is alive. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 209 Registered: 8-2005 |
Sorry, Duncan, I know quite a bit about the enterainment business and have dealt with hundreds of famous people over the years. What you're saying just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Being famous takes a HUGE amount of effort. It almost never just happens. You have to choose to be in the sort of movies that tend to make one famous and then, as you point out, do the work involved in promoting those movies and, by extension, yourself. You have to be a part of the fame-making maching: the right the right agent, the right publicist, etc. These people don't work with you by accident. You decide to work with them and you pay them to promote you. If Mel didn't want to be famous, he wouldn't employ ICM and Rogers & Cowan. It's extremely rare that fame finds people by accident. Mel had ample opportunity over the years to walk away from fame, and he chose not to. YOU might not want to be famous (but then why do you care if anyone sees your work? maybe you don't want to be a superstar, but you're certainly craving fame, albiet on a smaller level), but I get the feeling you're a very different sort of person (and actor) than someone like Mel Gibson. I think you're getting hung up on your own experience here. And while it's probably true that not all actors, musicians, etc. want to be famous, it is true that the vast majority of FAMOUS people want to be famous. It's just too much work to achieve and maintain fame for me to ever believe otherwise, despite what people claim in interviews. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1748 Registered: 10-2004  |
religion not race black jews asian jews indian jews All inclusive. jews are not just white northern europeans. Considering the origins in the middle east it is quite likely that the stereotypical jewish person that Americans take for granted was a converted pagan and not an original semite. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2389 Registered: 10-2004 |
OK, I apologize, Mel Gibson is NOT IN FACT A RACIST. I'm sorry a used a word incorrectly and spawned lots of semantic conversations. Now can we stop splitting hairs and get back to what a pr*ck Mel Gibson is? | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2033 Registered: 7-2004 |
It is a common mistake people make. Now back to business. What did Mel say that was wrong? | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 872 Registered: 8-2005 |
MAYOR !!! | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2034 Registered: 7-2004 |
The Mayor his here is answer questions, shake hands, and kiss babies. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 873 Registered: 8-2005 |
The anti-semitic tirade aside (& that's a hell of an aside), how about the total lack of respect he showed the police? And threatening to ruin somebodies job because he 'owns' the town? What? The laws apply to me not him, why? | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 874 Registered: 8-2005 |
Is that kiss babies or babes? Just curious. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 875 Registered: 8-2005 |
Later! Got to go to the Dr. appointment for which I had to get up at this forsaken hour! | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2035 Registered: 7-2004 |
Either, Or. | ||
| Lord Pabulum Citizen Username: Lord_pabulum Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2006  |
If anybody criticizes Israel, why are they labeled an anti-Semite? | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 210 Registered: 8-2005 |
Yeah, right. Mel was explaining his take on middle-east policy while spewing explitives during his drunk driving arrest. There is NO WAY you can mistake this for anything but the anti-semetic ravings of an unhinged bigot. The phrase "f---ing Jews" does not come out of the mouth of someone involved in a civil discourse on world events. Speaking as someone who has serious issues with a lot of stuff Israel does, give me a freaking break. |
