| Author | Message | ||
     Ukealalio Citizen Username: Ukealalio Post Number: 2598 Registered: 6-2003 |
I agree with the comments about race/religion and will certainly not take cues from Hitler, however it was Hitler who said Jews were a race and many of the racists today would agree with him (I bet you Mel and his Psychotic dad would agree with the Fuhrer).I'm sure European Jews all over were making this same argument as they were getting carted away to the camps. Reasonable people would understand the argument, most racists are not reasonable. As far as Sammy Davis Jr, had he been in Europe during WW2, he would have been doubly f%*ked and if it was uncovered that he was also Gay and had Gypsy blood, Oy vey. | ||
| Lord Pabulum Citizen Username: Lord_pabulum Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2006  |
Thanks, I've used the phrase "f---ing Idiot", especially when driving, and I am anti-Idiot. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 211 Registered: 8-2005 |
Ah, I see. We have a troll. zzzzzz... | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater  Post Number: 2391 Registered: 10-2004 |
Oh most definitely a troll. With his stupidity about criticizing Israel was a DEAD give away. Clearly the Lord hasn't read the quote from Mr. Gibson or he would have known that Jews were being blamed for ALL wars in the world. Israel wasn't being blamed, but Jews. So the Lord is clearly a troll. | ||
| Lord Pabulum Citizen Username: Lord_pabulum Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2006 |
Lord Pabulum says the 'stupid question is the one not asked', fellow pabulum spewters. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1464 Registered: 2-2006  |
Frankly just a question: Drunk or not drunk...famous or not famous... Can one say: The efin irish drink too much The efin germans are anal retentive The efin arabs that flew into our trade center The efin scottish are cheap The efin swiss are boring The efin english can't handle their booze These statements are not racist...they are derogatory but not racist. If you look and treat somebody differently because of their skin color then that is racist. I DO NOT LIKE MEL GIBSON AND THAT IS THAT. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME IF HE IS FAMOUS OR DRUNK OR WHATEVER. WHO THE EF CARES, WE ARE AT WAR, PEOPLE ARE DYING AND ALL OF AMERICA (ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA) IS GOING ON AND ON ABOUT MEL GIBSON. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO DIED FOR NOTHING YESTERDAY IN ISRAEL, LEBANON, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, SUDAN, CONGO AND ALL THE OTHER MILLION PLACES. FOR WHAT...OIL, LAND, RELIGION, DOMINANCE...? FOR WHAT??? I am not racist, nor am I a bigot, nor am I antisemitic and yes you can be none of them and still have been born in Austria. However I do not agree with the foreign politics of Israel. Neiter do I agree with our foreign politics or the one of the arab communities. Frankly they are all pissing me off (ESPECIALLY the good old US OF A) because we are teetering on the edge of global war...AGAIN FOR WHAT??? CHILDREN ARE DYING ON ALL SIDES!! SHAME ON ALL OF US FOR STANDING BY!!!NO MATTER WHAT COLOR, SEX, RELIGION OR COUNTRY ANY OF US ARE!! SHAME ON US ALL!! I AM NOT EVEN GOING TO START WITH AFRICA. NONE OF US SHOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 213 Registered: 8-2005 |
Who the ef cares? Clearly you do. You're posting in this thread (at some length, I might add). You're splitting hairs here. Derogatory but not racist? Call it what you like, but there's no excuse for what Mel said, and combined with his history it makes it clear that the man has some loathesome attitudes toward Jewish people. Why it seems to bug you when people point this out, I'm not sure. And what Mel Gibson's anti-Semitism has to do with the war or your views on Israeli foreign policy, I'm also not sure. Also, why do you assume people know you were born in Austria? I had no idea. I do know that your posts in this thread have been a little strange, and you have, at times, appeared to be either defending Mel or shrugging off what he did and said. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1467 Registered: 2-2006 |
Dear I'm only sleeping: 1. There was an earlier remark about where I am from and that is why I brought it up. 2. Did I not make a point in every post to say that I am not a Mel Gibson fan? I find the fact that he drove anihilated horrifying and his statement to be rude and ignorant. 3. The scariest part is that there seems to be a cover up by the police. 4. Is this a hate crime or racism? No, I don't think so. 5. Does it deserve that much media attention? No I don't think so. 6. Are there more pressing matter?...Yeah I think so! 7. Should he have said "It's all the efin african peoples fault. They cause all the war in the world" it would have made page 5 at best and people would have commended him for using the appropriate term (african not black) even when drunk. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 214 Registered: 8-2005 |
1. Missed that, sorry. That's a totally unfair thing to have brought up. 2. Whether or not you're a Gibson fan is irrelevent. The issue here is whether you condemn or excuse anti-Semitism, not whether you like Gibson. 3. Not a big shock that cops give special treatment to celebrities, but that's hardly as scary as Gibson's shocking bigotry. 4. This is why you are upsetting people here. Of course it's not a hate crime. But it is a man who's long been accused of anti-Semitism (and who has denied it) showing his true colors. Why are you struggling so hard to deny this? It seems strange. 5. Mel Gibson has been a HUGE story over the past few years. This is a continuation of one of the biggest entertainment stories in recent memory, so the level of coverage is appropriate and unsurprising. If it weren't for the Passion of the Christ this would be a much smaller story. 6. Of course. Doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't talk about this one, though. 7. That's ridiculous and pretty offensive, frankly. If he had made a hugely successful and controversial movie in which black people were shown in a negative light and then he was caught making anti-black comments, this would be EXACTlY as big of a story. And, um, "african" is not the appropriate term. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2036 Registered: 7-2004  |
African is an appropriate term when talking about people from Africa. | ||
| Lord Pabulum Citizen Username: Lord_pabulum Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2006 |
Efins is an appropriate term when talking about people from Effenberg, Germany | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1469 Registered: 2-2006 |
Dear Sleeping: You wrote: 1. Missed that, sorry. That's a totally unfair thing to have brought up. Why in gods name is it unfair? I have experienced many of incidences where people assumed that I am anti-semitic because of my birthplace. Labeling galore. 2. Whether or not you're a Gibson fan is irrelevent. The issue here is whether you condemn or excuse anti-Semitism, not whether you like Gibson. It is not irrelevant if I am a fan or not. I have always condemned anit-semitism and that is not what I was talking about and I stated that. We were talking about if it is racism or not. My take, and you are more then welcome to disagree, is that this is completely blown out of proportion considering what is going on elsewhere. 3. Not a big shock that cops give special treatment to celebrities, but that's hardly as scary as Gibson's shocking bigotry. I would find it very shocking if I would find out that they let him slide on two (or more) previous occasions. 4. This is why you are upsetting people here. Of course it's not a hate crime. But it is a man who's long been accused of anti-Semitism (and who has denied it) showing his true colors. Why are you struggling so hard to deny this? It seems strange. Wow, I am upsetting people by stating my views about the media coverage this received? Isn't this America anymore? Since we are all ok with putting labels on people I thought I should at least point out that racism is the wrong label. That is all I did. I never stated that what he said was ok and it is not. I feel that the arresting Officer (who is jewish) put it exactely in the right perspective: Office Mee a 17 year veteran on the police force stated (Quote): "What I had hoped out of this is that he would think twice before he gets behind the wheel of a car and was dinking....I don't want to ruin his career. I don't want to defame him." As for the anti-Semitic talk, Mee dismisses it as "booze talking". I think Mel Gibson did the right thing by apologizing and by checking himself into Rehab. The damage to what was left of his reputation is done. 5. Mel Gibson has been a HUGE story over the past few years. This is a continuation of one of the biggest entertainment stories in recent memory, so the level of coverage is appropriate and unsurprising. If it weren't for the Passion of the Christ this would be a much smaller story. Frankly entertainment stories in general have never been huge to me and especially not in "recent memory". There were plenty of real news-worthy events as far as I am concerned. 6. Of course. Doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't talk about this one, though. I was refering to the news coverage this event has gotten. Front or at least second page exposure of most daily papers is absolutely absurd considering we are in a major middle east crisis and at war in two countries. 7. That's ridiculous and pretty offensive, frankly. If he had made a hugely successful and controversial movie in which black people were shown in a negative light and then he was caught making anti-black comments, this would be EXACTlY as big of a story. And, um, "african" is not the appropriate term. Are you listening to yourself? Why is "African" not an appropriate term when using an alternative people to see if media coverage would compare? I was making a point that if his remarks were made about a different people then it wouldn't have turned into a four day media circus. You are more then welcome to exchange it with any other people. Use Austrian for all I care. Sometimes people who are too politically correct offend by traipsing in circles over a perfectly correct term. I had no intention of insulting or offending people here on this board and if I did so then I apologize most sincerely but my point was never to condon or excuse his remarks but to put this whole incident into perspective and point out that the media has been totally irresponsible to focus three days of attention to this minute and unimportant event considering the state of affairs in the rest of the world. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6813 Registered: 12-2001  |
Sleeping you are just flat wrong about fame. Period. Do you honestly think if I suddenly decided I wanted to be famous that I could walk into ICM or CAA or William Morris and say...I want to be famous and have that be that? I am glad you have "dealt with hundreds of famous people" but you still have no idea how the whole system works. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 215 Registered: 8-2005 |
1. Why in gods name is it unfair? I have experienced many of incidences where people assumed that I am anti-semitic because of my birthplace. No, I meant it was unfair for somebody to have brought that up about you in this context. 2. I have always condemned anit-semitism and that is not what I was talking about and I stated that. We were talking about if it is racism or not. My take, and you are more then welcome to disagree, is that this is completely blown out of proportion considering what is going on elsewhere. Who cares what you call it? Racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism...call it whatever you like. It's still incredibly offensive. Why are you so hung up on what to call it? And I can't imagine why world events should prevent us from taking on Mel Gibson's anti-Semitism. Any time there's a major news event anywhere in the world suddenly the world's bigots get a free pass? Makes no sense to me. 3. I would find it very shocking if I would find out that they let him slide on two (or more) previous occasions. Then you are pretty naive. 4. Wow, I am upsetting people by stating my views about the media coverage this received? Isn't this America anymore? Since we are all ok with putting labels on people I thought I should at least point out that racism is the wrong label. That is all I did. What's strange is how much more concerned you are with the "right" label than with condemning what he said. You seem to be saying that, yes, it was anti-Semitic, but it wasn't racist so it's not that big of a deal. Which I find offensive. 5. Frankly entertainment stories in general have never been huge to me and especially not in "recent memory". There were plenty of real news-worthy events as far as I am concerned. Last I checked the coverage decisions of the world's media outlets were not dictated by your personal interests. Who cares if you're interested in entertainment? That doesn't mean this isn't a huge story. 6. I was refering to the news coverage this event has gotten. Front or at least second page exposure of most daily papers is absolutely absurd considering we are in a major middle east crisis and at war in two countries There has been no less coverage of the middle east as a result of this. When there's a war somewhere the media shouldn't write about anything else? Doesn't make sense. Why can't both the middle east crisis and the Gibson story be on the front page? Don't read it if you don't want to, but I don't see any reason to bury a big story simply because there's a bigger story happening as well. 7. I had no intention of insulting or offending people here on this board and if I did so then I apologize most sincerely but my point was never to condon or excuse his remarks but to put this whole incident into perspective and point out that the media has been totally irresponsible to focus three days of attention to this minute and unimportant event considering the state of affairs in the rest of the world. I don't really understand what you're saying here, but I can't fathom why you think Mel Gibson revealing himself to be the bigot he's long been suspected of being shouldn't be a major story. The fact that you're more bothered but this supposed excess coverage than by his bigotry is pretty revealing about your priorities. I don't know you and I have no reason not to believe you when you say you don't share his views, but I find your response to this very puzzling, to say the least. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 216 Registered: 8-2005 |
Sleeping you are just flat wrong about fame. Period. Do you honestly think if I suddenly decided I wanted to be famous that I could walk into ICM or CAA or William Morris and say...I want to be famous and have that be that? I am glad you have "dealt with hundreds of famous people" but you still have no idea how the whole system works. Jeez, Dunan, pay attention here. WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU! Of course you couldn't just waltz into ICM. My point is not that any actor can be famous. It's that any actor can choose NOT to be famous. There's is no way you get to be famous at the Mel Gibson level unless you want to be. | ||
| Njnetsfan4life Citizen Username: Njnetsfan Post Number: 591 Registered: 6-2004  |
I think that sometimes famous people like Mel Gibson, Lindsy Lohan, Paris Hilton, etc. use their fame just as an excuse to get out of trouble. Don't get me wrong here, I am not condoning what he did in no way shape or form. If it were any of us we would be spending time in jail, may be a few years I think that if you are someone in the spotlight, let it be as an athlete, movie star a music star, model etc, that person puts themselves in a position to be closely looked at not just by the media, but the public, by people like us, the world over. I know that some athletes, movie stares etc. try to keep their professional life and there privet life separate. I look at it this way, if a person did want to become famous, they shouldn't have picked the acting business to get into or become a world class athlete. I | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2049 Registered: 7-2004 |
"Racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism...call it whatever you like." No, you should call it whatever it is and nothing more. It's like saying rapist, pedophile, murderer call it whatever you like. All three are very different even if they are all wrong. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23755 Registered: 6-2001  |
CNN Breaking News: -- Actor Mel Gibson is charged with misdemeanor drunken driving, having an elevated blood-alcohol level and having an open container of liquor in his car. Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com and watch FREE video, plus live, commercial-free video with CNN Pipeline. CNN - The most trusted name in news. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2061 Registered: 7-2004 |
Drinking while driving, thats not good. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1474 Registered: 2-2006 |
Sleeping: You are labling people left and right in your statements but are up in arms because somebody else was doing that same exact thing. Anti-semitism is lableing. Racism is lableing. You wrote: 1. No, I meant it was unfair for somebody to have brought that up about you in this context. It is not unfair to bring up Austria when the discussion is about anit-semitism. It is unfair to assume you know who I am because I am not agreeing with you. 2. Who cares what you call it? Racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism...call it whatever you like. It's still incredibly offensive. Why are you so hung up on what to call it? And I can't imagine why world events should prevent us from taking on Mel Gibson's anti-Semitism. Any time there's a major news event anywhere in the world suddenly the world's bigots get a free pass? Makes no sense to me. It does make a huge difference what you call it (see Mayors post). Nobody has said in any of the posts that they condon what he said. Not one single person but you are up in arms, why is that? Again nobody said he should get a free pass or what he said was not totally wrong. What is with the "taking on" bit? It would just do to have it in the paper once. I would only need to read his statements once to know where I am at which I already did since he is a religous fanatic and with that the guy is out in my book. 3.Then you are pretty naive. Do we know each other? And by the way I didn't say surprised, I said shocked. Everybody should be shocked and demand an investigation because his actions could have caused the loss of life which I consider bigger then the drunken idiotic and mean statements he made. 4.What's strange is how much more concerned you are with the "right" label than with condemning what he said. You seem to be saying that, yes, it was anti-Semitic, but it wasn't racist so it's not that big of a deal. Which I find offensive. You are damned right that I am concerned if the label is wrong. It is unconscionable to label somebody wrongly and it's illegal. It's called slander. 5. Last I checked the coverage decisions of the world's media outlets were not dictated by your personal interests. Who cares if you're interested in entertainment? That doesn't mean this isn't a huge story. Oh man you got issues. I wrote "Are there more pressing matters...I think so"! Am I not allowed to think so? I am aware that nothing is dictated by my personal interest...Question is are you? Your statements are selfrightous and you have no problem to slam and slander but it's not ok when somebody else does it? 6. There has been no less coverage of the middle east as a result of this. When there's a war somewhere the media shouldn't write about anything else? Doesn't make sense. Why can't both the middle east crisis and the Gibson story be on the front page? Don't read it if you don't want to, but I don't see any reason to bury a big story simply because there's a bigger story happening as well. When almost all daily papers have 3 pages dedicated to a drunk and the middle east and the war receive an average of one page then there is something wrong. Unfortunately in this country it is crucial to keep certain stories on the front page to keep people interested. Remember Hurricane Katrina? New Orleans is experiencing a major crisis due to the mental brakedown of survivors and rebuilders. Post traumatic stress has set in and crime, violence and suicide has skyrocketed. The report came out at the same time as the Mel Gibson incident but we and the media have been occupied with sensationalism. Gibson sells and Katrina doesn't. I don't need to read four days about an anti-semite to know I am dealing with an a*shole. I wrote: 7. I had no intention of insulting or offending people here on this board and if I did so then I apologize most sincerely but my point was never to condon or excuse his remarks but to put this whole incident into perspective and point out that the media has been totally irresponsible to focus three days of attention to this minute and unimportant event considering the state of affairs in the rest of the world. You answered: I don't really understand what you're saying here, but I can't fathom why you think Mel Gibson revealing himself to be the bigot he's long been suspected of being shouldn't be a major story. The fact that you're more bothered but this supposed excess coverage than by his bigotry is pretty revealing about your priorities. I don't know you and I have no reason not to believe you when you say you don't share his views, but I find your response to this very puzzling, to say the least. Since you accused me of upsetting people on this board I apologized since that was not my intention. I stated my view on a thread that I started but somehow you have decided that my view is not correct and I therefore need to be put in my place. You have labeled me in many of your answers and I have refrained from doing the same. You assume alot about me but you do state that you don't know me...I find that puzzling. Would it make a difference to you if I mention that my maiden name is Weinberger? I wonder.. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean that I am an anti-semite but you kind of imply that when you state that "you have no reason to believe I share his view although it puzzles you". MY VIEW IS: I have a problem with all religions as they have done so much damage to this world and when I say all I mean ALL. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2395 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'm sorry, I think it's has been proven that there is enough wiggle room in calling Mel Gibson a racist that it would not be considered slander. Fine if for some bizarre reason it went to court I'm Only MIGHT lose the case on a technicality. Does that make you guys happy? I swear, it's irritating how most people continue to waste so much time on the semantics of words and refuse to analyze the content or the point of a post. Also, if your not interested in entertainment news and you think it is a glorious waste of time, it might be a better use of your time to go to the Soapbox and wax poetic on the subject. But to engage the people who do like it and are interested in the subject...that to me is masturbation. And while I actually get off on watching you guys wank off in front of me, I suspect that others might not. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2063 Registered: 7-2004 |
It is not a technicality. It is an obvious fact that is often confused. I hope you have learned something these pasat few days. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2396 Registered: 10-2004 |
So Mayor, do you want to take it to court? Do you think that the potential mis-use of the word racist might win you the case? I wasn't the one who used the term "slander". You want to start defining the word slander now since you find it so important to analyze words, and how they are used? Also I believe you missed the point of the second half of that same first paragraph (WHICH I FIND TOTALLY AND UTTERLY IRONIC considering what it's about). | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6826 Registered: 12-2001 |
I give up. clearly this is really upsetting I'm Only Sleeping. Last volley honestly..
Why on earth would somebody choose not to be famous? It isn't their choice, that is the point I keep trying to make and you keep missing. Every famous person, with really only a few exceptions, starts out wanting to make a living. To get the check, to work enough weeks in the year to qualify for health care. If they are good, the level and exposure of the work increases. Is this where Mel or anyone should just say...ooops better not take that job I might become famous? One thing most performers have in common is the "this could be the last job" paranoia. The studio system used to contract people for years, now you might have a contract for a film and some sequals, like Toby Maguire did with the Spiderman trilogy. What he saw was an opportunity with HUGE risks. He had to carry the first film, have it do well enough to make the second and third even feasible. There isn't a point when an actor or entertainer can really say I don't want to be famous, I'm outta here. Every gig is a gamble, every step forward a success. Just like every other job. What I think you are missing is the real fact that it is a job. He makes crazy amounts of money but that is because people go to his movies. Tom Cruise is bonkers but he gets, what is it now, something like 100 million a movie because the business part of "show business" says if we pay him that we will make our money back in spades. If any actor can choose to not be famous means that that actor has to choose to give up what he/she has studied and worked at for years. Is there an ego behind the work, hell yes, just like there is behind anyone who has a job and wants to do the best job they can. It's just his job is reviewed in the papers and magazines everytime he does it. If an AVP at a major company gave 4 major presentations in a year and each one is covered by every possible paper in the country, should they quit and not try to make VP? IOS... you have won. Beaten me. Made me give up trying to explain what you can't seem to grasp. Acting is a job. Being famous is a result of that job. You cannot just decide not to be famous it isn't in your control. You can't tell your agent, look no high profile work anymore, just some under 5's and day player, maybe a guest spot. What Gibson said was ridiculous, hateful, and dumb. That is the bottom line. If only he hadn't made Summer City back in 1977 then he wouldn't have made Mad Max two years later and none of this would ever have happened. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2064 Registered: 7-2004 |
"do you want to take it to court?" Yes, I want to take you to court. I'm just trying helping to educate you. Some people say that you learn something new every day. But I have been trying to teach you one small detail for 2 days and you haven't learned it yet. Maybe tomorrow you will catch on. Then the phrase can be: you learn something new every 3 days. As for the "second half of that same first paragraph" are you trying to say that you just don't care that you are wrong? And when did I use the word slander, and why would I want to use it? | ||
| Lord Pabulum Citizen Username: Lord_pabulum Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2006 |
If Muhammad instead of Moses brought the Ten Commandments on stone tablets Mel would just be angry about something else I guess.. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2399 Registered: 10-2004 |
Please Duncan, don't give up on the conversation. Having said that I see where I'm only is coming from and I am a bit confused by your frustration. I guess I just disagree with you. I believe an actor can do fine work, RAKE IN THE BIG BUCKS and make a serious and dramatic effort to keep the FAME out of their lives. Yes it's hard. And yes, the more reclusive you become their is a chance that you might garner more media attention. And yet...very many, dare I say skads of talented, successful actors are able to avoid uneccessary media attention. They don't do the talk show circuit when they aren't promoting a movie. They aren't getting drunk and beating people in public, or throwing phones at people. When this stuff happens people wonder, huh is this a media stunt? Because very often it is. So I just disagree that being a successful actor is exclusive to being overly-famous. If you wanted to be LESS famous, could you and still get work? I feel confident that the answer is yes. Maybe you will only get 50 million a movie instead of 100 million a movie. I suppose you could make that argument. But c'mon not everyone can love the media and feed it as brilliantly as Tom Cruise. He's practically made it into an art form at this point. I feel that VERY MANY actors decide that they want to take a break in their career and take smaller roles. This doesn't mean that they might not later go on to do bigger roles again. It happens...All the time. How about Francis McDurmond, she's the total opposite. She does smaller roles in arty films all the time. She's constantly working, and she's very famous. And occassionally she even does a larger film. She can pick and choose. Because she's talented, cares more about her craft than earning a paycheck (from what I can tell). She gets work ALL THE TIME. She's constantly acting. People are clamoring to work with her. She could start taking higher paying bigger roles. Oh wait, she's just an anomoly, right? When you earn 100 mil a movie you don't have to do more shlocky 100 million dollar action movies. Heck you've earned the clout to do a few artsy films. THAT is what being an actor is, I THOUGHT. Could Meryl Streep do more shlocky Hollywood dreck movies and earn more money? YES SHE COULD. Did she or Al Pacino need to do a (relatively speaking) low paying HBO made for TV adaption of a broadway play? No. So I'm sorry some of these things that frustrate you about that I'm Only or I are just too dense to understand (presumably because what you are saying is JUST SO RIGHT AND OBVIOUS) well isn't so obvious or necessarily right. Fame is something that people work to sustain. In order to stay famous you need to do things. Being a great actor and being paid well is only one way to sustain it. Occassionally it is unavoidable. But sometimes we do things to promote it. Other times, we need to NOT DO THINGS, so as to intentionally avoid fame ESPECIALLY when we are in such constant public scrutiny. Drunk driving, harrassing cops and acting like an anti-semite are GREAT examples of some of those things. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2400 Registered: 10-2004 |
Dear mayor, don't be so lazy. Please keep up with the conversation at hand. Why don't you just hit control+f and type in slander and read the comments made to see the actual context of who is saying what. Yes, I am saying that you (and others too) aren't reading people's posts, and seeing beyond a specific word and trying to understand what they are ACTUALLY saying. Oh he used the word blue when he really meant aquamarine, I will now stop reading this post and not talk about their actual topic at hand and instad discuss how aquamarine is the real color. Wow aquamarine. Don't you love aquamarine. You are just too stupid to see that aquamarine is the right color. Maybe in three days you'll see that aquamarine is correct and blue is not. As for me being stupid and unable to understand YOUR POINT. I think you are wrong. I wrote IN THIS EXACT THREAD on the previous page: OK, I apologize, Mel Gibson is NOT IN FACT A RACIST. I'm sorry a used a word incorrectly and spawned lots of semantic conversations. Now can we stop splitting hairs and get back to what a pr*ck Mel Gibson is? What other way could I prove to you that I read and understood your point? So why don't you just take me to court already. The People's Court, with Judge Ross preciding. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2066 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dearest Alleygater, it is not at all like your little color story. It is more like a thread talking about an armed robber and you just throwing around the word rapist. They are not the same even though they are both crimes. It is misinformation. I’m happy to see that you recognize that you are wrong. Just stop saying it. That is all that I am asking. Although it is interesting to see that you know that you are wrong, and just don’t care that you continue to be wrong. “So why don't you just take me to court already. The People's Court, with Judge Ross preciding.” What’s up with you and the court thing? You are really stuck on it for some reason. (And why would you want to go to court anyway? You have already admitted to being wrong.) Who cares about Mel Gibson anyway? | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2403 Registered: 10-2004 |
If you don't care about Mel Gibson, why not just state it and move on. This honestly isn't the place for you to be participating if you have no interest in the subject. See my masturbation comment above. Your reading comprehension has proven to be quite low, I'm sorry to say. If you don't understand why I went on about the word slander or why I made a joke aboout taking me to court to argue over the semantics of what a word means and when you can and can't use it -- well then maybe you should open your eyes, and re-read the thread again. Rather than posting about how you can't understand the meaning of the thread. I know you just graduated, so I know you know how to read. How about using some of that fancy schooling and start thinking. Also I would like you to find me an example of me calling Mel Gibson a racist AFTER I apologized. No you can't do it, because I didn't. Thanks for the false accusation though. I've apologized for my discretions. Mel has. How about you be a man and do likewise. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6828 Registered: 12-2001 |
I guess I take issue with the idea that an actor can just decide not to be famous as I'm Only stated. That is impossible. It is how you manage the fame that is the difference. And not to be nit-picky but I would hardly say that 60 Million dollars is a low budget film (Angels in America) And Frances McDormand does indeed handle her career differently but she is not, to my mind FAMOUS in the same way at a Cruise, Gibson, Streep, etc. Meryl Streep is a grounded trained actress who knows it is a job and a craft and is very fortunate to be one of the highest paid women in hollywood. Or was at one point anyway. And she too has managed her fame. As for your "things not to do" I COMPLETELY AGREE. So we are in agreement that fame is something resultant of ones talent. Not a choice you make to be famous. You may become famous and then you have to handle it. As I said way back in this thread Johnny Depp is really FAMOUS but doens't have a tabloid life. Look, Both Elizabeth Franz (not famous, but a working actress with a Tony Award) and Dan Lauria (semi famous for the Wonder Years) did films for me because they had the time and wanted to help out. I didn't pay them, and they were gracious as can be. So I understand that as well. Tom Cruise is not an actor he is a "celebrity" and I don't even want to get into that discussion. The actors you mention are actors, but not many people in the middle of America, if you asked them, could tell you what movies Frances McDormand has been in. Or even William H. Macy. Or our own James Rebhorn. But those folks are actors, not celebrities. Way back when Gibson was an actor, and a damn good one at that. Gallipoli is a helluva good movie. Somewhere he didn't manage his fame. I concede that point, I do not, however, agree that at some point you can just decide to not be famous. When you make a movie you go on a junket. Thats how the studio's work and thats how the films get promoted. Alley you make some really excellent points, I just wish there wasn't a tone of condescension toward me. I have no disagreement with you on this topic. I am frustrated at the assumption that Fame is a choice. It isn't. It is the result of the things I stated earlier. However, your point is well taken that it is how you manage the fame that seperates one kind of "fame" from another. River Phoenix would have just been another overdose case, but he was in films.  | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2067 Registered: 7-2004 |
Apologize for what? For you attacking me? For your inability to understand the nature of the agreement in which you are involved? "Also I would like you to find me an example of me calling Mel Gibson a racist AFTER I apologized." OK "Racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism...call it whatever you like." OK, you are right. You can call it whatever you like, but you cannot be right in calling it whatever you like. All I said was that being Jewish does not make someone of a different race. You have felt it necessary to continue to argue the point with me. You apologize but continue to come after me with your posts. You want to take me to court to show I am wrong, go ahead. . Just drop it. I continue to be befuddled by your inability to understand that you are wrong, deal with the fact of it, and stop coming after me with your postings. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2068 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dave, maybe this thread should be moved to Soapbox. It is hurting the vibe of the Virtual Cafe. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2404 Registered: 10-2004 |
Dear Mayor, I have not attacked you. I am sorry if you can't take a conversation where two people disagree. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit. I don't dislike you or anything like that. I do however like the Socratic Debate occassionally. It's one way of learning that I use. And it keeps my mind sharp. Now, I did not make that quote that you attribute to me. I'm Only did. I find that pretty lame. I mean, I just called you out on the fact that you aren't reading things for context. I also suggested that you should re-read something that you don't understand before posting. I went further and stated that I didn't call Gibson a racist (after I apologized) and asked you to prove where I had. I also asked you apologize for the false accusation and instead what do you? You attribute someone elses words to me? Seriously, what is up dude? That is totally not cool. Furthermore, rather than just apologize like a man, you instead whine to Dave? Do you need someone to come in and clean up your mess for you? I really don't care for it when people can't handle their own messes and need to rely on the Policmen to control the board. It's so completely uneccessary in this situation, IMO. Also it really frustrates me when people flaunt their relationship with the Administrators on MOL to get special treatment. I can think of a few examples with Straw getting away with murder for no apparent reason. Or times when I have posted things in the Soapbox about something that OTHERS deemed too political and my threads needed to be ghettoized (or as you put it MOVED) into the Politics section. But meanwhile there are overtly political threads in the Soapbox now. Why aren't they moved? It's because it's the squeaky wheel syndrome. And dude, stand up, YOU THE SQEAKY WHEEL. Maybe you'll get some special attention since your personal friends with the Admins. I'm sorry if you don't like the conversation anymore but you could own up to the fact that you have helped to shape this thread to what it is. You could also take my advice and just shuffle off to another thread. You LITERALLY SAID YOU DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THIS TOPIC!!! Why are you still here and feel that you need to change where it resides on the server? Squeak. Squeak. Squeak. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2069 Registered: 7-2004 |
Sorry about the misquote. And you continue to attack me. I asked Dave to move this there because that is where it should be. Not because I need someone to "clean up my mess." I asked the moderator to move this thread. Where did I flaunt a relationship with him? It is the moderator’s job here to moderate, isn't it? You and your conspiracy theories... (And just to let you know, I am not Straw.) And I don't know what I need to apologize to you for. You still have not told me what I should apologize for. Do you really even know why you asked me to apologize? Again, my only point in this thread was to point out a mistake. And yet you continue to call me back here. Perhaps it is you who is "THE SQEAKY WHEEL." I will see you in court. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2070 Registered: 7-2004 |
Also, I have nothing against you either. I made the point that I wanted to earlier, and will leave you to continue your thread about Mel Gibson, unless I am called back here again. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2405 Registered: 10-2004 |
Darn you know, you were off to such a good start. You actually apologized. If you had just left it off like that it would have been fine. But then you followed up with the question of what you did wrong that was worthy of apologizing. Not cool. I was pretty clear in my previous post about what you should apologize for. I never thought you were Straw. I've never accused you of that. It'd be actually pretty funny if you were however. The apology I originally wanted was for you claiming that I CONTINUALLY used the word Racist improperly in this thread. I actually didn't. It also would be nice to actually apologize for misrepresenting me and claiming I said something I didn't. You almost did this but then seemed to withdraw the apology by asking why you were doing so. It might be nice if you apologized for not reading the thread properly before you accused people of stuff and then when you were asked to find evidence of your accusation but were too lazy to actually do it. It also might be nice to apologize for implying that it takes me days to learn anything. Which is rude. I mean you sling some mud and then you cry about how people are attacking you? I'm sorry when you go HEY DAVE (wow, Straw uses that tactic too come to think of it now you got me thinking) well....yeah, then I think you are acting uneccessarily squeaky. I'm also curious, what calls you back to these threads? Is it that you get an email message and like a Pavlovian dog you must answer the call of the message? Or is it that you get off on the little online skirmishes and are too shy to admit it? | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1475 Registered: 2-2006 |
Alleygator: You are the one who is not reading posts properly and you are the aggressor and the name caller. Which in itself should get you banned. You called Mayor stupid which is against the posting rules and indicates the level of your intellect may I add. You harp on and on and your point would be..what? The label racist was used in the wrong context and it is first and foremost incorrect and yes also slanderous to do so. If you murder somebody and someone calls you a rapist then that is slander. The debate with IOS was about misslabeling people and overexposure of an event. Mel Gibson is antisemitic. Did any of you really need him to blurt it out drunkenly to confirm that? Just a bit of education to get the point across to you: Anti-semits hate jews for events that they perceive were caused by jewish people. These views are horrendous and ignorant. Nobody has ever stated anything but that. So why you and IOS are off to jump in peoples faces is beyond me. However a racist does not bother to look at your actions, believes, accomplishments, personality, religion, education or upbringing because non of that matters. His/her hate is soley based on your skin color and that in itself is a totally different matter. You stated that it doesn't really make a difference. Talk to somebody who has been a victim of racism and you might understand how it is different. You can be an African-American jew and still experience racism from a jewish person because they are two different things. Anti-semitism, racism, bigotry are serious crimes and should be dealt with in a serious fashion which includes identifying them correctly. To say that it doesn't matter is insulting to victims of all hate crimes. If it doesn't matter then let's send Gibson to a sensitivity training for sexual harrassment. Since it doesn't matter how we label him it won't matter how we deal with him. You wrote: I'm sorry, I think it's has been proven that there is enough wiggle room in calling Mel Gibson a racist that it would not be considered slander. When it comes to crimes like racism or anti-semitism there is no wiggle room. That is an idiotic statement to make. You wrote: I swear, it's irritating how most people continue to waste so much time on the semantics of words and refuse to analyze the content or the point of a post. So if the power of words is irrelevant then what are we talking about? If it doesn't really matter how you say something then that would apply to Mel Gibson too. Words have more power than weapons as they can harm without leaving a wound that can be healed. The point of the thread (which I might add I started was that Mel Gibson was caught while DUI which at the time of the post was the only charge brought against him. When the rest was revealed all posters on this board agreed that his statements where horrible. So why is your hair up? Frankly your posting style leaves much for want and you and your personal attacks which you tend to include (not only here) leave much to be desired for. The apology is outstanding on your end. By the way what's with you and the "masturbation". You wrote: And while I actually get off on watching you guys wank off in front of me, I suspect that others might not. Frankly what you "get off" on and what you perceive as "wanking off" are topics that most posters are definately not interested in. I suggest some real life action to ensure you receiving the satisfaction you so desperately seek. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10314 Registered: 4-1997  |
Due to the heinous nature of this thread, here it is in the Soapbox. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2886 Registered: 5-2001 |
I suppose you're also submitting this as an episode for Law and Order, SVU. You know due to the heinous nature of this thread and all. |
