| Author | Message | ||
     mwsilva Citizen Username: Mwsilva Post Number: 517 Registered: 5-2002 |
I ask the question because tonight, while sitting at a bar, a few ladies and several 7-9 year old kids were sitting at the bar having drinks. The mothers were drinking wine, and the kids were having a great time ordering drinks from the bartender and watching him make them. (Yes the kid drinks were soft.) Somehow, at some level this just did not seem to be a correct behavior to teach a child. It was in the village, and the seating was not on the restaurant side of the establishment, rather at the bar with stools and adults in various states of drunkenness. Loud and adult conversations were every where. It was clear that the mothers were not waiting for a dining table, as I had a 15 minute wait, and was called to a table while the drinking family continued to enjoy the event. So, simply asked, is it ok to serve kids at bars, or should there be a law to help parents parent children? | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 544 Registered: 4-2002 |
I too,always was appalled at the idea of having children at a bar. However, once the no smoking ban was enacted in the city, and sometimes the quickest seat I could get was in the "bar area" I kind of accepted the idea. Now that NJ also has no smoking I am much more comfortable taking children to a bar area, as my concern was more about smoking. I don't see much difference in sitting at a table where the adults are drinking than sitting at a barstool and ordering dinner. In most countries, there is not a stigmatization about drinking, so it is not unusual to see kids running around pubs. If we can lessen the prudishness about drinking (and most adults do it) perhaps it would be easier to teach kids about how to drink without getting falling down drunk, rather than just send them off to college without any sort of training whatsoever. | ||
| Joel Janney Citizen Username: Joel_janney Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2004 |
Hmmm, a bar in Maplewood Village. Which one could that be? Anyway, even if I agreed with you about this being poor parenting, and I do not, we do not need more laws to 'help' parents parent children. If those children are there 4-5 hours a night 6 nights a week, I would agree that's a problem. It's also a problem if kids only exposure to what drinking is like comes from tv and movies. It's also a problem if kids are kept so sheltered through their childhood that they feel the need to expose themselves to too much when they're finally free of their parental bonds. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese  Post Number: 2199 Registered: 7-2004  |
More laws are always a bad thing. | ||
| daylaborer Citizen Username: Upondaroof Post Number: 913 Registered: 4-2003  |
"So, simply asked, is it ok to serve kids at bars" Only if they're well done! (Couldn't resist!!) | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2295 Registered: 3-2004 |
I guess I see it from the other direction. If I'm sitting on a bar stool, with an elbow on the bar (one of the last bastions of adulthood), I'd rather not have a 9 year old sitting next to me. | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 915 Registered: 5-2001 |
Maybe we need laws to help non-parents butt the #$%^& out. | ||
| Carl Thompson Citizen Username: Topcat Post Number: 212 Registered: 4-2003  |
Until a few decades ago, British pubs could maintain a bar where neither women or children were allowed. However, a man was always permitted to bring his dog into the pub with him. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 916 Registered: 6-2001  |
Yes, Argon Smythe, us non-parents are so f$cking ignorant about correct morals and behavior. The kid I sat next to at the bar 20 years ago is now a successful 28-year-old who obviously (as a non-parent) cannot have an opinion here. I guess we non-parents should just shrivel the •••• up and die so we don't clutter up your parenting "experience". I'm sure your kid has never benefited from the wisdom of an Unparent. Funny story. I was the only "old one" invited to my niece's 24th birthday party last August at my friend/foster mother's house. I was the only relative adult over the age of 30 at the party. Everything was good, I was hanging out in the backyard as I usually do at my friend's house (the mater/pater went to the shore) having fun. When I went into the house for the first time, a young man exclaimed "there's a parent here!". I said, "Apparently, I'm not a parent since no parents were invited." That young man and I have become pretty good friends and I bust him about my "apparent" status at times. I know I've had a positive effect on many, many children and to tell me you want to pass a law to make me butt the #$%^& out is truly offensive. Get over yourself - please! | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2296 Registered: 3-2004 |
Argon, yes you certainly are. I am a parent, and my children were raised, as was I, in a European environment. I still don't want to have a 9 year old sitting next to me at a bar. It's up to you to find something else to do with your child. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1640 Registered: 2-2006  |
As a mother I have always valued the input of my non parent friends and my children have always been around my non parent friends. These adults are not the boring, old farts that we parents are and can communicate with young adults on a much more open level. I have overheard many of my friends say something to my children that was much better received then if it would have come from me. Parents remember...the fact that you have a child makes you no more qualified to be a parent then a person who has never had a child. In Austria we say: You can own a cow but that doesn't make you a farmer. To point out...it is illegal for a child to sit at the bar in a restaurant in NJ. You can sit in the bar area with your child but not on a barstool. The bartenders in that particular bar probably were not aware of that. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 2638 Registered: 7-2003 |
When I was bartending, I told parents that NJ law wouldn’t let children at the bar. At the time I thought it was true, and no body ever called me on it. Wouldn’t matter if they did, my bar my rules. It was for 2 reasons. First of all I wanted seats open for the drinkers, if they sit they drink more, and second I didn’t think it was fun to run around making Shirley Temples for kids. Sometimes a guy would come in with his son, and I’d make an exception if the place was empty, I don’t recall if a Mother had come in with a child, but I would have been fine, again if the place was empty. Lots of mothers would come in after shopping in a group and I’d always tell them the kids couldn’t be at the bar, I’m not a baby sitter. In general I don’t like kids at bars when I’m sitting there. Like Innisowen said, it’s a place for adults. If I’m in a restaurant (not NJ) and a kid is sitting in the smoking area, I won’t smoke, and generally watch my language. At a bar, I’ll smoke, drink, cuss, it’s not my fault the kid is there. I’ll be more tolerant if there is 1 kid, but more then one is annoying. FWIW I’m not telling the parents that they are wrong, I think the bar owner / bartender is. | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 6913 Registered: 2-2003  |
I think it depends on the time of day. I have been into 'the bar' in the afternoon with the kids and there is no one there. If my kids asked to sit up at the bar....I don't know, I think I would. If it was a crowded evening with adults sitting up at the bar, completely different story. | ||
| fiche Citizen Username: Fiche Post Number: 243 Registered: 3-2002 |
Red: exactly. When my children were little - approx 20 years ago -- sometimes we would go into Bunny's on a hot afternoon. We would sit at the bar, me with a beer and hopefully a friend (also with a cocktail) - sometimes it was even with Bets (non-parent with very good insight) or her sister (a parent with very good insight) and the children would have sodas and the bartender would load them down with quarters to play the jukebox and pinball games. That was a great time. But to do something like that at night when there were lots of "grups" trying to have an adult evening would be insensitive to them and not appropriate for the children. Aaah! I remember how cool Bunny's was and what a respite it was in the hot summer afternoons..... | ||
| mim Citizen Username: Mim Post Number: 689 Registered: 5-2001 |
(Actually, kids aren't allowed in pubs in England anymore either. New rule inspired by Britain's self-consciousness about its heavy drinking image. Only foodie pubs that meet special requirements allow children nowadays.) | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 624 Registered: 5-2005  |
I think it all depends on the atmosphere of the bar, if it is a sleezy pick up joint kind of place then "no" on the kids issue. In general I don't think American bars lend themselve to a kid friendly experience. However, when we vacationed in the Catskills there is an Irish area we frequented (no jokes about the Irish here) and the bars were completely family friendly...kids got up and danced to Irish music and popular music of the day...pitchers of soda for the kids, pitchers of beer for the adults. We stayed at the hotel adjoining it so no worries about driving. IMHO That's the way it should be, if kids are going to be in the bar. | ||
| Mama Cloudy Citizen Username: Mamacloudy Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2006 |
I (like many parents in NJ I'm sure) rejoiced when the bars went non-smoking this spring. This opened up a new world of dining and entertainment for me and my 1 year old. However, this change did not mean I could leave my senses and plop my son on a bar stool. I agree with several of the posters that a bar is the final bastion of adulthood and should be preserved. I gladly take my kid to the resturant half of the hybrid bar/resturants in town. And when he's home with the spouse and I'm out with the girls it's "to the bar" for me. I appreciate not having to sit next to someone else's kid when I'm there. | ||
| Miss L Toe Citizen Username: Miss_l_toe Post Number: 580 Registered: 10-2003 |
On the other hand, mim, thousands of British pubs have beer gardens. I used to go to them every Summer when I was a child and my dad would have a beer and my mum and siblings would have sodas, usually accompanied with a packet of Walker's potato crisps (chips) and at one favourite, the "Horse and Jockey" in Warwickshire we would watch the cricket match taking place in the adjacent field or fuss over the ponies in another adjacent field. When I go home to England and it's a nice Summer's day or evening we all invariably end up in the beer garden and often take along nieces and nephews; some are quite lovely and in rural areas often adjacent to a canal, stream or river. Most pubs have a swing or climbing set for the children to play on and they can burn up their energy and run around. It's such a pity that I've not encountered anything like this in the US. My sister often takes her son to a hugely popular 'Wacky Warehouse' which is a huge play barn attached to the pub in use throughout the year , and it has an outside play area too, plus baby changing facilities: http://www.pub-explorer.com/themedpubs/wackywarehousethemedpage.htm http://www.pub-explorer.com/somerset/pub/bucket&spadewestonsupermare.htm It would be great if they had them here but I guess most local town halls wouldn't allow it? | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 918 Registered: 5-2001 |
LOL bets chill out it was a joke. Some of my best friends are non-parents. I even let them talk to my kids occasionally. | ||
| Oldstone Citizen Username: Rogers4317 Post Number: 896 Registered: 6-2004 |
sarcasm inflicted as a joke should have a smiley face following it to avoid people taking it seriously. | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 919 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well let's put it this way... I don't think some non-parent lobbying group needs to push Trenton to enact some sweeping ban on the occasional little one setting foot in a bar from time to time. Let the parents have a freaking drink with their kid in tow... what's the harm? If you are worried about the children then don't take your own there. If I would like to take my kid there what business is it of yours so long as he's well behaved and sticks to O'Douls? "  " I did not mean non-parents don't serve a purpose in childrens' lives. Peace, man! It takes a village! | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 4152 Registered: 5-2001  |
This would never happen at the Gaslight. -s. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2206 Registered: 7-2004 |
Why is that? | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 4153 Registered: 5-2001 |
Don't pretend you don't know, McCheese. I refer you to any of MOL's numerous threads detailing that establishment's policies regarding child-friendliness. -s. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 981 Registered: 8-2005 |
I've heard that they're kid-hostile to start with so few people with wee ones ever go back a second time. Don't know this first hand, haven't been there in years. | ||
| jet Citizen Username: Jet Post Number: 1201 Registered: 7-2001 |
I have noticed some cougars with kids @ the Gate a # of times , I don't approve of kids @ bars , especially @ some of the hours they were there. What is really disturbing is what happens if the cougar gets lucky ? | ||
| Cougar86 Citizen Username: Cougar86 Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2006 |
I've seen this too. But its much easier to reach over a 7 y/o to put the dollar in the girl's bra than it is to reach over a grown man... | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2207 Registered: 7-2004 |
Soda, so you have had that experience? I have not. Kids at the bar don't bother me. How hard is it to not say something completely offensive in the presence of a child? | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2309 Registered: 10-2002  |
Whatever the outcome of this discussion - to ban or encourage kids at bars, I offer to monitor the situation at all the neighborhood bars. It's the least I could do for the community  | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1759 Registered: 3-2002 |
Also, quite a few bar/restaurants (including some in town) effectively use their bars as waiting areas for their dining rooms, and have almost no place else to wait for a table. In that case, I'll take a child to the bar -- otherwise, I tend to avoid it. | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 6916 Registered: 2-2003 |
LilB--I am with you. Maybe we should form a committee. We will have to come up with a name. But I am with you. We should go out to all the local bars at least seven nights, and as many afternoons as possible. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 3210 Registered: 12-2001  |
When I go to a bar, I need the little shaver there to lead me home by the finger at the end of the night while I sing "Old Dan Tucker" at the top of my lungs. | ||
| Flying_char Citizen Username: Flying_char Post Number: 266 Registered: 8-2005  |
I will take my kids anywhere if it is at a decent time. ( No not to the tittie bar...) I don't see a problem with bringing kids to a bar if it is a nice establishment. Now Gaslight and not liking kids, that is a new one for me. I never been there, but will def. make it a point to go there with kids! | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 3110 Registered: 9-2003  |
When my kid was little-little, we would sometimes have her with us near the bar (as opposed to "at") while waiting for a table. To me, the main downside of kids at the bar (for both the parents and the other bar patrons) is that the bar per se is the one spot where adults are likely to talk purely adult things, including swearing, sex life, etc. The bar is sort of the last refuge for that kind of talk, from happy hour forward. I wasn't keen on having my kid exposed to that, and at the same time, I personally used to seek that kind of environment (without the kid) with my friends, husband etc. I'm guessing that now that smoking is banned in restaurants and bars in NJ, people are more likely to bring their kids to the bar area. I hope they don't expect the word choice and topics to clean up on their account. Sometimes, a bar isn't just a place to get a drink, but also a place to let your hair down. | ||
| Amateur Night Citizen Username: Deborahg Post Number: 1961 Registered: 5-2001  |
Don't know what the issue is with kids and bars. I often drop my kids at St. James Gate while I go shopping in town on summer evenings. Cool, good music, draft beer, and they make a few bucks hiring themselves out to single guys who want to do the babe magnet thing with an attractive rugrat... OK seriously, my kids love the stools so I take them to the diner and let them sit at the counter. NOT at the bar. My daughter things drunk adults are the grossest, anyway. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Momof4peepers Post Number: 177 Registered: 12-2005 |
Could those cool moms have planned the date and the babysitter cancelled or other parent had to work late, making going to the bar with the kids an out-of-the-ordinary occasion? One that, by letting the kids sit at the barstools and order drinks kept them entertained enough that the moms had a chance to catch up? Or is this an example of "I'm at the bar so often that these kids are there more than I am that this is clearly a bad parenting choice"? Why don't moms ever get the benefit of the doubt? | ||
| vocallee Citizen Username: Vocallee Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2001 |
You're talking about a "bar" in the middle of Suburbia and likely not talking about that late at night. As with any situation, it's all relative. I mean, what are you teaching the child? Can a "bar" be a place other than where you go to get wasted? I have taken kids to the bar. No table available, it's early afternoon, early evening, but seats are available at the bar. I have a burger and a beer and they have chicken fingers and yes...Brett...we'll have another Shirley Temple. A few extra cherries this time please. The kids aren't on the computer, they aren't on their gameboy and we talk about the day. Bartender asks if I want another; I say "no thank you, I'm driving and have myself and these beautiful kids to get home safely." It doesn't matter where you are sitting. It's what they are experiencing and learning. No better way to learn responsibility and self-discipline. And if someone where smoking or cussing or extremely intoxicated, then we are all leaving. Cause forget the kids, as an adult, I don't want to have to experience it. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 2642 Registered: 7-2003 |
I’m glad that you get to spend time with your child. I’m glad he gets to tell his/ her friends that he / she sat a bar all afternoon. I’m glad I got to tell my friends that my dad took me to Chucky Cheese cause he didn’t need a beer to get through the day. But if that’s what you need to be a good father/ mother, it’s your business, I don’t tell people how to raise their kids, I just pay for them when they turn out to be unemployed / convicts. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1768 Registered: 3-2002 |
Brett...have you been back to Chuckie Cheese as an adult? The food really s**ks, totally aside from the lack of a liquor license. Your attitude also really s**ks. You clearly do want to tell people how to raise their kids, but maybe need to get some credentials first. For someone who has tended bar, you seem to be pretty anti-alcohol. I'm not so convinced that seeing a parent drink a beer (whether at the bar or at a table) is going to put a kid on a road to ruin. | ||
| algebra2 Supporter Username: Algebra2 Post Number: 4221 Registered: 5-2001  |
I think a child seeing parents with a healthy attitude towards alcohol is a good thing. Having a beer at lunch is pretty normal. Or a glass of wine. Brett, your attitude is strange. |
