| Author | Message | ||
     MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2006 |
Why would a contractor/handyman come to your house, tell you they will give you an estimate shortly and then never follow through? We're not talking major projects here, but the scope of the work was clearly communicated in the initial phone conversation. I understand that projects need to be "worth their time" but if this is the perspective I find it very short sighted, as we will have more signficant work down the road (kitchen/bathroom overhauls) and now would never consider these people for it, and when their name comes up, would never recommend them. We've take time out of our work schedules to be home for this, so it's killing our productivity too, not to mention just plain rude. I'm purposely not naming names here, so, if you're one of the contractors/handymen that's guilty of this, please don't embaress yourself by responding to this. Just do us a favor and tell us up front that it's too small for you or that you don't do work for less than x amount of $. Or if you come to the house and don't think it's worth your while, rather than telling us that an estimate is forthcoming, just be up front and say you'll pass on it. That way we can move on accordingly. Ok, I've said my peace. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1815 Registered: 2-2005 |
I've had similar experiences, and I simply can't understand it. I can deal with someone who doesn't return an initial phone call - he's busy, whatever - but once you have a phone call describing what you want AND have the contractor over to look at the job... why not a return phone call? You're absolutely correct, it's a terrible way to do business. I had a few less-than-stellar experiences with contractors a few years ago, when I first bought the house. Needless to say, those guys (a) don't get referrals from me and (b) don't get my new projects (and some of those are pretty substantial). Why not post your proposed projects here on the board? You might get some guidance on who to use. Good luck! PS - can anyone say 'post proposed projects' three times fast? | ||
| MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2006 |
Case, thanks for reinforcing the perspective. Unfortunately, I have posted or consulted with folks who are closer to this board than I am and have been led down the road I described. Hence my guidance for the guilty parties to sit this thread out. Between that and the blatant grandstanding/shameless self promotion conducted by some contractors in the form of recommendations under new screen names, I'm quickly losing faith in this forum as a useful medium. I suppose "let the buyer beware" is especially true in this case - no pun intended Case :-) | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2040 Registered: 8-2002 |
Keep in mind, that given the age of housing stock in this area, nearly everyone has "projects" to do! The "good" guys get known quickly -- through MOL and otherwise. And while they may not be insanely busy to start with -- things, especially this time of the year, get nuts and out of control. Hate to say it -- but the better the reputation, they busier they get -- and then it seems to me that it gets hard for them to even return calls and prepare estimates. My lawn guy is a great "for instance". 4 - 5 years ago, as his business was building, he got many recommendations on MOL. He did larger whole yard landscape work and continued with lawn maintenance. His business grew -- he added crews, and now there isn't nearly as much (if any?) direct oversight of the workers. Although I enjoy DIY projects, I have less time for them. But, I may just have to do more of them in the future... Pete | ||
| william rega Citizen Username: Regacontracting Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2005 |
as a legitimate contractor working in this area for a very long time. and I mean long, my advise to you is 1. as the contractor up front if the job is something he would be interested in. 2. stop calling the wrong contractors. I know that's hard to do, because you don't know until you go thru it unless you ask them first. as a general contractor, I sometimes have the same problem with my subs, who have worked for me for a long time, in order for me to keep the job flowing I have to constantly be on their backs. so I feel the same as you do sometimes and it is very frustrating. believe it or not you can tell if you called the right contractor, by his appearance and by his attitude. good luck in the future. | ||
| Sherri De Rose Citizen Username: Honeydo Post Number: 301 Registered: 11-2005 |
With the advent of email, I have been sending all quotes via email. I have been surprised to sometimes find a quote I sent out a week prior and then tried to follow up on actually not received at all. I would always give someone a second chance. Maybe this is what happened in your case MittenReckett. Not to excuse anyone from wasting someones time, but things get misplaced (I left my flashdrive somewhere and don't have any of my records now) and stuff just happens. The trade we have chosen is a very hard one to satisfy everyone. | ||
| Michael K. McKell Citizen Username: Mckellconst Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2006 |
As a contractor who just changed his screen name not for recs or slght of hand trickery, have had my fare share of time being wasted by homeowners and subs. Unfortunatley, this business does not generate individuals with absolute professionalism in mind. It's been my experience that most customers call anyone and everyone willing to come by, best them to death looking for the cheapest price. AKA get what you pay for. Don't loose any sleep over it. | ||
| swato Citizen Username: Swato Post Number: 183 Registered: 5-2001  |
I always return my calls even if it’s to say we can not take on any more installation projects for a month, I think I owe the person a least a return call. As far as estimates are concerned going out on a sales call is getting expensive because of the gas prices but that’s part of doing business. Like Sherri I also send sales quotes via email it works for us. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 501 Registered: 6-2002  |
Also, when requesting quotes, I would suggest getting everything itemized, so that you can compare apples to apples... What I love is when contractors get better paying or bigger jobs and then leave you in the dust(literally) mid-project. So, even if they got the quote to you, came out and started, they leave you in a worse position than the one in which you started. I have had that problem with only one company, but MAN, it really ain't pretty. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Momof4peepers Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2005 |
It's not just a problem here, but everywhere I've lived. Some of it s the nature of the "work for yourself" beast, some of it is tunnel vision (I'm working on this project and dealing with these problems, I'll call that guy back as soon as I get a sec), and like others have said, the better known ones get very busy very fast. And stuff DOES happen. Some contractors are organized and meticulous with their quoting, and SUCK the big wazoo with their actual, hands on WORK. Others are PHENOMINAL with the WORK, but can't organize their way out of a paper bag. Some guys (please know that I use this term loosely - I just have yet to call or hire a female contractor/plumber/electrician but I DO KNOW they exist!) have assistants who do all the quoting, some do it all themselves. And as a homeowner, I've been guilty of calling for quotes just to see if what I want to do is even in my budget. That wastes their time, and I'm sure some contractors can tell right off the bat if you're serious about the job, or if you're "thinking" about it. KWIM? I've had guys call me back 6-8 weeks later and ask if I ever did the job, did they ever send me an estimate? Don't be too upset - welcome to the world of old home remodeling. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1638 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sorry to the contractors who post here, but it really is simple -- if you are too busy to even return a quote, don't waste my time by having me meet you at the house to walk you through what I want. If you don't come back with an estimate I will never, never call you again. I'll try not to waste your time, but I'm the potentially paying customer, and I d**n well expect you not to waste mine. If I've used time off from work to show you want I want, the least I deserve is an estimate. If you don't want my work, then high-ball it or tell me it isn't your kind of work, but don't take up my time and then never respond. | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1277 Registered: 1-2006  |
This thread is dumb. If you were a contractor and you were looking for work, you'd take all comers. Then, if you're busy, you'd take the biggest jobs. We home owners are fishing for "THE BEST" situation. So are the contractors. Do you think you can start a bidding war among contractors for a small job? There are people who want their whole house restored before they move in this time of year. Rude? It's capitalism. J.B. | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1278 Registered: 1-2006 |
So, who wants to give me a quote for my portico. It's rotten. Copper roof needs repair. Oh yeah, I'm on a budget. The line starts here. J.B. | ||
| MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2006 |
Dumb is posting to a thread with absolutely no value added. Dumber is twisting the thread off message - who said anything about a bidding war or being "on a budget?" Dumbest is being a contractor who spends time on this board rather than following up on estimates. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12021 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think while you are interviewing the contractor, he or she is also interviewing you. My guess (and I think one of the contractors who posts here mentioned it as well) some homeowners are not good matches for some contractors. Still, returning a phone call and saying that something came up and the job can't be quoted isn't way out of bounds in my opinion. | ||
| melicious Citizen Username: Melicious Post Number: 508 Registered: 6-2002 |
I have no problem with people fishing for the best deal - contractor OR homeowner - but I really think it wrong to start and then quit mid-stream. That's just down-right unprofessional. | ||
| Michael K. McKell Citizen Username: Mckellconst Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2006 |
Starting and quitting mid stream is a loose term. Example: A homeowner and I met (3) times to discuss the job (again) to no resolve. As always I am looking for work and booked another job. I gave them a call and email advising that I did so and could not entertain their project for some months. They took an offensive attitude towards this because they felt they had their place in line. NO ONE has a place in line without a signed contract and deposit. Am I supose to wait around like a hungry dog waiting for this job to fall off the table? No, I don't have a 9-5 job where the company direct deposits my check every week regardless. I have to work for my money and expect to make as much as I put into it. That's just business. Why would I waste my time and fuel coming to this house (again) just to find out after (3) weeks that their brother in law will be doing 1/3 of the job. To boot, I am now asked to revise my quote (again). Their are two sides to every story. I only wish this site had a thread for contractors only. Please excuse my rant.... Mike | ||
| Sherri De Rose Citizen Username: Honeydo Post Number: 307 Registered: 11-2005 |
Touche Mike..... | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1281 Registered: 1-2006 |
"Dumb is posting to a thread with absolutely no value added." You were ranting. Someone needed to throw some cold water in your face. THAT was the value of my post.  J.B. | ||
| MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2006 |
Ok, you've accounted for Dumb.... What's your excuse for Dumber? | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1288 Registered: 1-2006 |
This thread doesn't have a message to be twisted off. The second, "dumber" post was a parody of you. That's why I made it dumb, to illustrate my point. The point I was trying to illustrate is that small inexpensive jobs where a homeowner is trying to make the job smaller and more inexpensive by getting multiple bids ( which = on a budget) do not generate alot of real interest from contractors. Sure they'll come by just in case. But, there IS no line of interested contractors, get it? THAT is why you're not getting any interest from the guys you've had out. The job is too small, and the promise of a big job later isn't as good as a big job now. As for the dumbest, I'll let someone else field that. J.B. | ||
| MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2006 |
In order for a parody to work it has to be relevant. | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1289 Registered: 1-2006 |
"Why would a contractor/handyman come to your house, tell you they will give you an estimate shortly and then never follow through? We're not talking major projects here, but the scope of the work was clearly communicated in the initial phone conversation. I understand that projects need to be "worth their time" but if this is the perspective I find it very short sighted, as we will have more signficant work down the road (kitchen/bathroom overhauls) and now would never consider these people for it, and when their name comes up, would never recommend them." Not relevant? J.B. | ||
| MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2006 |
"Do you think you can start a bidding war among contractors for a small job? There are people who want their whole house restored before they move in this time of year" "a homeowner is trying to make the job smaller and more inexpensive by getting multiple bids ( which = on a budget) do not generate alot of real interest from contractors. Sure they'll come by just in case" Where in the original post are these themes articulated? Nice try, but you are establishing a false premise vs debating "on point." That said, your parody is indeed relevent - to the premises YOU established. Keep trying - I think you had more potential with the "rant" angle. | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1297 Registered: 1-2006 |
"We're not talking major projects here..." Maybe I over-emphasized this point. But this is where I think contractors lose interest. The rest was indeed my hyperbole. You say I'm arguing against a "straw man," I say, I'm making your argument ad adsurdum. Let's not take make it ad nauseum. J.B. | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1299 Registered: 1-2006 |
In case you're rusty on your latin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum I had to check to see if I used it right. I think I did. J.B. Anyway, I agree. No call back = pain in the *ss. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 870 Registered: 10-2005 |
Having been burned by MOL references in the past, I've lost faith too, particularly with the recent on-slaught (or maybe I've just opened my eyes to it) of misrepresentation, so I have to say I'm taking a new approach going forward... 1 bid from MOL References (oddly enough, the board has a life of it's own, and there are STILL people recommending a contracting DUO who hasn't returned any phone calls going back to early 2005.) 1 Bid from Neighbor Reference 1 Bid self generated Having given thousands of estimates in the past career, I can tell you that 25% of all estimates end up as work (I obsessively measured every metric) That means 75% of the time, you are not getting paid for the time spent with homeowners. However, this is a cost of business, so I disagree with earlier comments that suggested this is a waste of time. Further, more than 90% of all 'call-backs' end up as work, so I re-iterate my earlier sentence. I used to schedule people out 6-9 mos out, and they were willing to do it, so I never understood contractors who blow-off estimates, or don't call back after providing one. (I've had 6 or so dissappear on me) | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider  Post Number: 14886 Registered: 1-2003  |
William Rega and Michael McKell are two contractors who responded here. They both blame the customer and didn't answer the question. swato is a contractor, and he says he returns calls. Bravo. William and Michael, I'm sure some customers are pains in the butt. But of course, some are not. (Tell us if you disagree with that statement.) Can you explain why a contractor wouldn't follow through with a good customer? Hmm, come to think of it, I can't think of why you wouldn't follow through with a bad customer. It's fair to say you are not interested in the job. And if the customer gives you lip, you now know for sure you don't want to deal with him. But not making the call doesn't seem like good business. | ||
| Pat Scanlan Citizen Username: Squarehead Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2006 |
I think there is a very relevant point coming out of this string...and Tom et al reinforced it nicely. Given that this is real life business, contractors will do what is in their best interest in the short term and disregard the long-term consequences. That is why 1) they don't follow up with estimates, 2) they blame the customer when posting on MOL, and 3) many have had bad experiences with highly recommended contractors on MOL. Now for Jersey Boy...you are just plain dumb. It hurts my hair to read your posts. You distract good conversations with your dribble, and are completely oblivious to value-added conversation. Please stop posting!!!!! And one final point...your posts are really bad...so bad in fact, you make MittenReckitt seem smart. Please stop distracting good conversations. Pat Scanlan | ||
| phyllis Citizen Username: Phyllis Post Number: 540 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think responsiveness is just one factor to consider when selecting a contractor. The fact is - a couple of my favorite contractors around are sometimes REALLY bad at getting back to you. There are times when I've chosen to either push or wait, because I feel like they are the best for the job at the price. Conversely, I've dealt with some contractors who are fantastic at communication but really really crappy with their job. It is sad, but it seems the rare gem (and they are out there) who are good at the communication, priced fairly and really good at what they do. How much I'm willing to put up with on any given week depends on the week! | ||
| swato Citizen Username: Swato Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tom R. You may not remember but I did some phone work for you a few years ago. Your wife called me to repair a phone line in your home in Maplewood; as I recall the phone company's rates were outrageously high. I returned her call right away, showed up in the morning like I said I would, repaired the problem on the first call and charge the price that we agreed on before the work was started. That the way we do business. I admit things don't always go as planned but that is the exception and not the rule. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle | ||
| william rega Citizen Username: Regacontracting Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2005 |
Tom Reingold; please re-read my post. I never blamed the customer My feelings are just be up front with the contractor. I try my best to return all my calls as soon as I possibly can. I don't pre-qualify my calls. I treat each one as though I'm going to do the job. I limit my jobs to this area in order to be able to respond quickly, without having to run from one county to another to cover leads. almost all my jobs are through word of mouth. and I realize that if word got around that I didn't follow up, that would end my business very quickly. Tom, when was the last time you called a contractor for an estimate? Next time you need a contractor and want an estimate try calling me. | ||
| Michael K. McKell Citizen Username: Mckellconst Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2006 |
I did not blame just the customer. I said, I have had my fair share of time wasted by both the customer and sub contractors. My 2nd post on this thread gave an example of a particular situation. I admited it was a rant and asked for forgivness. However it does not change my mind about this being a two sided discussion. Frankly, I'm very dissapointed that other contractors haven't posted their two cents. Maybe it because their affraid of damaging their reputation? I don't know nor care. This site is a wonderful resource for many different topics and advise which is why I read and post here. | ||
| XMan-- BearsBrother Citizen Username: Xmanreckitt Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2006 |
Squarehead, you are out of line. Jerseyboy was just making a great point. Mitten, you need to chill out. Jerseyboy, keep up the good work | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1315 Registered: 1-2006 |
XMan, Squarehead and Mitten are the same poster. "They" don't like me, because, in addition to making "great points" and using latin, I keep pointing out that they are the same person. Thanks for your words of encouragement. I will continue to post my "dribble." Pat, check "drivel" in the dictionary, I think that's what you meant. How's that for a valuable post? Keep reading my posts, you might learn something else. J.B. | ||
| MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2006 |
JB I had made peace with you on this thread, but now you claim we're all the same poster? X-Man and Squarehead lack the coherence, elegance and charisma that my notes are characterized by. Claiming we're all the same person is a cop out. C'mon, you can do better than that :-) Mitten | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1318 Registered: 1-2006 |
Mitten, I like the part about making peace. But, what's up with Pat Scanlan being your "bad cop?" I was there when you "two" first started posting. Don't go all smarmy on me while "pat" misspells his insults. Funny how you both talk about "value added" posts. I don't remember anyone else using that exact term. J.B. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14903 Registered: 1-2003 |
swato, please understand. I have no complaints with your work or anything you have ever done. You totally rock. Is that clear?  The question is, why do contractors not follow up with calls that they promise to make? The responses from Michael and William have been counterthrusts, pointing out that there are bad apples among the customers. Sure. But it doesn't answer the question. If you always follow up on phone calls, now is the time to agree with us that failing to follow up is an indefensible practice. If you don't always do it, tell us why or at least admit it must be frustrating for the customer. Don't tell us what we customers do wrong. Do that in some other thread. As for when I last got quotes, it was about two weeks ago. We're about to start a project. I don't know how answering your question helps, but there you go. And one of the contractors was Gateway Plumbing, and they are model citizens when it comes to communication. If you want to make a good impression, this thread is your opportunity to empathize with our frustrations. If you want empathy, this is the wrong place. The topic here is contractors who don't communicate with customers. | ||
| MittenReckitt Citizen Username: Mittenreckitt Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2006 |
JB How does the saying go - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? You're quick to jump to conclusions. Yes, I've had my scraps with X-Man and Scanlan. How does that make us the same person? Mitten | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 1323 Registered: 1-2006 |
. J.B. |
