| Author | Message | ||
     Parkbench87 Citizen Username: Parkbench87 Post Number: 3566 Registered: 7-2001  |
"As my Dad likes to say: Be a man." Boreberry, Too bad you decided to ignore your Dad's advice. There are two distinct types of people here. People who are involved and do things to benefit the entire community. Hank falls into the category. Then there are people who sit at home and play with themselves. You fall into that category. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5252 Registered: 3-2002 |
Straw, Maybe some day you'll grow up to be as big as me and alot of folks around here, but for now, you will continue to be one of the smallest people I know of in our community...as we used to say to pesty little ones growing up, scram. Oh, and watch out for the drifts...you seem to like stepping into them. | ||
| I "Straw"buried Paul Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6766 Registered: 10-2001  |
Let's see, I'm 5'9", 175 pounds. I can bench 250 pounds.. You are 6'1" 235 pounds and clearly over weight. Chance are you can't bench your weight. Why do I point this out? Because Hank being blue collar actually thinks physical strength makes the man. So, if this is indeed the case, even in Hank's world, I'm still twice the man he is.. Gotta love Hank. He's Maplewood's version of Rosanne Barr. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5253 Registered: 3-2002 |
Straw, If I was making reference to your physical stature to make a point, Id be no better than...well, you. Most folks I know and love and like and respect are shorter than I am...their height or weight or amount they can benchpress (wow, there's something that really matters in life!) is irrelevant. No Tiny One, the small references have nothing to do with your height, but your character. You come up way short in that area, which is clear to most folks who've read your words, therefor, not making you the man you think you are. And I'm 6'2", but thanks for playing. | ||
| I "Straw"buried Paul Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6769 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hank, I see. So, you going after Art. I assume you think he too is of small character. Maybe it's time to look in the mirror.. There's a lack of character and class staring right back at you. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5254 Registered: 3-2002 |
Those are some of the funniest lines you've ever written. Art and I have had some very civil conversations even if I don't always agree with him or he with me...I don't know if that's a concept you're capable of understanding, Little Boy, but as you grow up and mature some day, hopefully, you might. | ||
| I "Straw"buried Paul Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6770 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hank, This section really isn't the place for you to be personally attacking everyone you disagree with. It's to discuss local Government. Please take your short fuse elsewhere. Back to topic.. I believe Annette makes a viable candidate because she's an experienced campaigner. Of course, it will be tough taking votes from Ken or Kathy since both will be endorsed by the party. My guess is she won't have the grass roots backing like Vic did and I believe Ken and Kathy will campaign harder than Ian did. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2595 Registered: 6-2002 |
I've been waiting for Ms. DePalma's name to be on the ballot. Writing her in was a chore. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 14569 Registered: 10-2001  |
Wow. What a bizarre turn this thread has taken. For the record, there are very few people I've ever met who have more class and character and integrity than Hank. I am genuinely proud to call him my friend. Even though he's a Yankee fan. As to the rest of this thread: a) I don't think anyones kids should be part of a discussion here. If people are concerned about how much time an individual can devote to elected office, they should be just as worried about their professional obligations, etc. Leave the upbringing of kids out of it. It's not our business. b) I believe that AnnetteDePalma would beat Ms. Leventhal in a primary election. Odds? Better than even money. While I do not always agree with Dr. DePalma's diagnoses on political matters, I fully appreciate her intellect and her ability to reason. We need the best and the brightest. She is one of the best and the brightest. One big downside: she likes the pea soup at the Mapleleaf. I think it's disgusting. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2600 Registered: 6-2002 |
sbenois: Next time we meet, we are going to fight. I am a yankees fan and I like the pea soup at the Mapleleaf! (Watch the thread drift into a discussion of the food at the Mapleleaf) | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 14571 Registered: 10-2001 |
This is why Wendy is an ideal candidate for TC. She hates pea soup and she's a Met fan. and when the hell is the Maple Leaf going to put sweet and low on the tables? Why do we have to ASK for it? It's like you need a prescription to get a package or two. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2602 Registered: 6-2002 |
Perhaps they think customers are going to pocket the Sweet and Low. In any event I do hope the candidates for the TC address the issue. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2603 Registered: 6-2002 |
So Ms. Ziefert, don't you think you ought to tell us who put their names in? | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 14572 Registered: 10-2001 |
They won't. I have no misconceptions. It's a third rail issue. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1667 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tom Reingold, I said not *many* men have the same choices to make about balancing family and work. Actually, Gloria Steinham said it, but I agree with her statement 100%. I think Annette is extremely qualified to serve on the TC if she chose to run. I can think of about 10 additional women whose names come up around election time that would also be qualified to serve. It's a shame that there haven't been more women serving on the TC w/ young children. Certainly women with school-age children are a huge demographic that transcends income, ethnicity, religion, and neighborhood. It would be nice to see more women in the Senate too, but one step at a time. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 14573 Registered: 10-2001 |
and one of them wrote that. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 1999 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well of course I'm going to run. I only have one child and he's a teenager. No one should be able to attack me on that issue. I do prefer the Parkwood for my soup (my soup choices, unfortunately must remain on total deep background at this point) but of course will have to remain neutral about overall diner/restaurant choices as soon as I put my hat in the ring. The fact that S was going to run with me is, however, a long-held secret I have no compunction about revealing. Wendy Lauter | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 14575 Registered: 10-2001 |
I thought you meant jogging. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2000 Registered: 5-2001 |
 Not quite you Feminine Mystique guy. | ||
| Jonathan Ben-Asher Citizen Username: Jonathanba Post Number: 113 Registered: 5-2001 |
Annette would be excellent on the Town Committee. She is smart, energetic and hard working. And because we like their kids, my wife and I have volunteered to raise them if necessary, gratis. For some reason, Annette was hesitant to turn them over. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12468 Registered: 1-2003  |
Lydia, I guess we would have to bicker about what "many" means in order to clarify. To me, the men I meet who find juggling work and family to be many, and I gather there are more out that whom I don't know, so that seems like many to me. When you say "not many," it sounds to me as if we're not significant. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4759 Registered: 9-2001  |
“It's a shame that there haven't been more women serving on the TC w/ young children.” Now we have volunteers raising them. Actually, this is where I have to draw the line. I never thought about it before, but I’m convinced now that all kids belonging to politicians and rock stars should be put into foster care... Listen, over the years I’ve dealt with plenty of these tough old political broads... You put them on a committee one minute, and before you know it they’re running for Governor.  Seriously, my earlier comment about who's raising the kids was in jest. However, the more I think about it, and the more comments I read, having two public servants in one household does create some interesting challenges. Listen, the only thing left in all of this is the tell tale silence of the candidate. As for Annette, we had a little chat recently, and I believe we both understand our political opinions shouldn't be taken personally. Right Annette? Meanwhile, I'll have to settle for the doting comments of all the Hero's and Nohero's; and wait for the big coming out party. | ||
| I "Straw"buried Paul Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6775 Registered: 10-2001 |
Art, It's an important question. Those who serve our town are expected to do so with a full head of steam. We expect them to fight for us in Trenton, in Newark, and throughout the state. We expect and demand that this job be taken as seriously as any job. It's that simple.. If a couple chooses to serve our town I think that's great. However, if there is a family situation that could potentially conflict with our needs, this is an issue that we will address. Art brings up an important question, one Annette and her husband will eventually have to answer if both move forward in pursuit of the elected positions. Sorry those such as Hank and Nohero need to make a joke and in Hanks case an argument out of everything. Folks like the two of them partially explain our idiotic tax situation. They simply refuse to keep their eye on the ball. I mean saying "you like someone" or you think they are "nice" does not mean they are qualified to hold an elected position. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1669 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tom, Why don't you start a seperate thread about father power? It's a subject you obviously feel strongly about, but really has nothing to do with the lack of women running for the township committee in Maplewood. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12482 Registered: 1-2003 |
Good idea. I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I invite you to participate in the new thread. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4762 Registered: 9-2001 |
Real good idea Tom, another thread would be great... As being a father many times over, I know a little something about motherhood, and neighborhoods, and even Maplehoods, but a fatherhood movement really sparks my interest... | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1919 Registered: 8-2003  |
of all the nutty notions that appear on MOL, this has been one of the nuttiest. the idea that both members of a couple shouldn't hold office because it might take time from their children is stupid in the extreme. what about parents who both commute to the city for work? what about couples who have hobbies that take them out of the house at night? should we stop all that? you know, I thought I saw members of the TC playing softball in the park last summer. how come they weren't home with their kids instead of cavorting around the diamond? maybe we should measure all the hours that candidates for office spend away from their children and base our votes on that. or even better, maybe we should identify potential politicians early in life and have them "fixed" so they don't have children. that way we can all get the good government we deserve, and we won't need to shed any crocodile tears over "the children" of our officeholders.  or how about this - we decide whether or not to vote for Frazer and DePalma based on what we think they'll do in office. I'm satisfied to let them decide how best to bring up their kids, and I think bringing it up here as an issue, really stinks. | ||
| I "Straw"buried Paul Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6776 Registered: 10-2001 |
"how about this - we decide whether or not to vote for Frazer and DePalma based on what we think they'll do in office." Bottom line: Can those elected to represent our town be counted on to give us the hours upon hours upon hours we demand from them? (all for a position that offers no salary) It's a question needed to be asked, and it's a question that will be asked. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12493 Registered: 1-2003 |
The question assumes that the candidate would sacrifice service to the town in favor of the kids. Or vice versa. For all we know, the candidate has a team of nannies or family members to help. Or the candidate has a team of private secretaries to handle the mundane aspects of serving the public. I've never heard of this type of question about any kind of candidate. Why now, suddenly? | ||
| I "Straw"buried Paul Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6777 Registered: 10-2001 |
Because a married couple with children both want to be voted into office. We need to determine if in fact this is feasable for them and more importantly for us.. Ask someone like Jerry Ryan about what it's like raising kids, holding down a job and acting as a town official. Jerry succeeded but I'm sure he'll be the first to tell you it wasn't easy. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12496 Registered: 1-2003 |
You answered a question I didn't ask, "why is this relevant?" My question is "why is this relevant now, for the first time?" I worked with Jerry Ryan when he was mayor, for whatever that's worth. Did people ask if he was fit by scrutinizing his personal and professional life? I suspect not. The question sounds sexist to me. I don't think anyone here is consciously or deliberately sexist, but that's how it comes off anyway. I imagine if Annette were elected before David, people wouldn't be asking him if he's fit to serve. Of course, no one can prove or disprove this hypothetical situation. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1670 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think some people are on the wrong track scruntinizing a person's public service as an excuse to meddle in anyone's private family structure. The broader issue is how do we get more qualified parents of younger children (especially women) to represent the town? Is there a way to make serving on the BOE or the TC more do-able for parents? This problem isn't unique to local governement at all. IMO, there aren't enough women in government period. Tom, I think public officials with young children are often scrutinized by the public. Remember when Hillary had to defend herself on 60 minutes as not a "cookie-baking Mom"?, It was a long time ago, but I think she then went on to do some cookie-baking photo ops - ugh. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2001 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie - an excellent post. Unfortunately it will likely go over many heads. | ||
| I "Straw"buried Paul Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6778 Registered: 10-2001 |
"Dr. Winston O'Boogie - an excellent post." First time for everything.  | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4767 Registered: 9-2001 |
“For all we know, the candidate has a team of Bla, Bla, Bla…?” Here’s the problem Tom, this is all psychological masturbation for the politically undernourished. It’s just one big circle jerk until she’s ready to come out of the closet… So far Annette is just following in the steps of her mentors. The mentality is classic Vic and David. Just put up a little fight at the end of the round to make a good show for the judges. Truthfully, I don’t think this is going to work this time. Listen, for all we know she may not even be a candidate. For all we know the Democrats may run you? Hey, I just calculated your hours on MOL Tom, and you my friend have more free time to devote to town issues than all the other members of the Township Committee combined... BTW, have you ever heard this type of answer about any kind of candidate before? Suddenly, I want to know why? One more thing for Boo Whoo Boogie. Annette is a big girl and she knows what she's getting into. Running for Township Committee is a sport in this town. Plus, what doesn't stink about politics anyway... and trust me Wendy, not much goes over anyones head who is engaged in this thread. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1920 Registered: 8-2003 |
first off, we're only arguing this point for one reason, as far as I can tell. straw would rather take the stupid side of an argument to oppose Hank Zona and nohero than take the smart side and agree with them. there probably isn't anyone who seriously believes parents of young children shouldn't run for office. but on the off chance that anyone out there with more than two working neurons actually might be persuaded by straw's argument, here goes. the two main things that are wrong with his argument are 1) quantity of time doesn't mean greater quality of service put in by office holders, and 2) that other life experiences are valuable to office holders. If all we wanted was politicians to put in as close to 24/7 as possible, we should only be looking for retired empty nesters to vote for. Busy people like small business owners, parents of young children, professionals, etc. all bring important experiences to elected office. not voting for one of them solely because they won't be at the voters beck and call at all times is shortsighted, and devalues life experience. if we want 24/7 TC members, we should make it a full time job. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4769 Registered: 9-2001 |
...nice Dr. Boogie, you and Dr. Phil seem to have a lot in common. Listen, I'm really impressed with your argument. I'll have to remember this if one of my four daughters decides to run for public office. Actually I enjoy spending more quality time with my grandchildren, especially if their mother will be putting in some extra time in those smoky rooms with the guys. I love politics, don’t you? I'm sure the kids don't mind me filling in for their dad either. I love making dinner, giving them their baths, helping with their homework, and reading a story to them at bedtime... Raising children is so much fun, I missed doing it when I was Annette’s and David’s age. I was always to busy at work, and then those business trips, extra hours at the office, and the other civic things I just had to be involved with.. Oh well, there will be plenty of time to do those things when they get to be my age... | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12499 Registered: 1-2003 |
O'Boogie, your 9:32 post reminds me of the adage:
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| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4772 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tom, it's funny how different things remind you of what someone else said.... _________________________________________________________________ Quote: She who does not make her family comfortable, will herself never be happy at home. And she who is not happy at home, will never be happy anywhere. Addison | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12501 Registered: 1-2003 |
Meaning what? A woman's place is in the home? |
