| Author | Message | ||
     The3ofUs Citizen Username: The3ofus Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2006 |
JTA, no offense, but you can't actually believe that "Most, if not all of us who have posted on MOL for more then a few months, know who he is in real life." I believe there are many, many newer MOL registrants who read this board and cringe at the nastiness written on here by adults...and it's always the same cast of characters doing it. The core posters on this website are NOT representative of ALL the people in these towns. One would think that if someone (and someone who runs a business in town, no less) were posting using his actual name that he would write appropriately, responsibly and remember that there are many, many browsers online hoping to get a feel for the town and the dynamics. This thread and many others like it do Maplewood no favors. How many new people in town do you know? Ask them their opinion of MOL beyond Home Fix-it and the other neutral sections. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2644 Registered: 5-2001 |
If you don't claim to know the whole story why do you think Art's frustration is rightfully positioned? Haven't you read his haranguing he's done to any number of people who don't agree with him - this is one of the most ridiculous comments I've read.. And it could have been avoided how????? By acting in a more businesslike manner? By thinking before he posts? If Art acted anything like he has has on MOL to me or to other reasoned posters in this very thread (he doesn't read the context very well JTA or perhaps you didn't notice) IRL, then WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING HIS NEIGHBORS I feel for them. I really do. It's the business-like aspect that is totally missing from his postings. Can you try to understand that???? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5253 Registered: 9-2001  |
"This thread and many others like it do Maplewood no favors." This thread and many others like it are like a grain of sand on the beach. The people who post here have an interest in Maplewood, and the people passing through are just passing through like and so many others... MOL posters have guts and passion, otherwise they wouldn’t be here. IMHO, anyone making a decision about this town based on the "the same cast of characters", you're referring too, I can assure you is not worth worrying about. ...FWIW, I don't run a business in Maplewood, and wouldn't this be a wonderful world if we all got along just swell, and didn’t take the time to correct others ? | ||
| justmelaura Citizen Username: Justmelaura Post Number: 718 Registered: 5-2001 |
JTA There are even MOLers who have outdoor parties late into the night Who are these people? Outdoor parties? Late into the night? I've never heard of such a thing. Next thing you know there will be Tiki Torches and Porch Parties. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 779 Registered: 4-2006 |
AJC- I believe that you would do better on your survey if you could establish some form of synergistic hook up with other businesses , so that it would receive more votes. For example, why not an accompanying ordinance for a "red light" district? Works well in Holland, and it is not a new nail salon! People could stay and um.... recuperate... at the B&Bs... after.... um..... touring that section of town. In all seriousness I would be suprised if you could not find some sort of study that shows the impact of the existence of B&Bs on business development of local community businesses in a favorable light. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5474 Registered: 1-2004  |
3ofus No offense taken. I've been wrong many times before, and I'm sure I'll be wrong again, but I think a good number of those posting for a while (four or more months) end up knowing who Art is from the Heres2thearts posts, the B and B posts and some of the others where he identifies himself. I don't mean to imply they know him in RL to the extent they hang out with him or are his buddies, but they do know his RL name. Sorry if I didn't make that more clear. I agree there is a lot of nastiness on MOL and there are people who can and do get the wrong impression of Maplewood. But that could go both ways when it comes to the B and B issues. Maybe there are people reading who think to themselves "What's the big deal? Why are they giving this guy so much trouble?" You should see the South Orange Topic. If I were considering moving to South Orange from out of state, I would most likely change my mind and move to Livingston, Short Hills or a little further West out of Essex County all together.  Wendy- Well at least I won some kind of award!  Thanks! How is it the most ridiculous comments you've read? From what I've read in the papers, online and from what people have told me, some who even live by Art, there's been a lot of mudslinging on both sides of the fence. I'm sure the others are frustrated as well. I do think a lot of this could have been avoid if ***both*** sides weren't so hot headed. How true is it Art had no problems until new people bought a house behind his? How true is it some of the neighbors went out of their way to disturb those staying at Art's or those holding events at Arts. Both sides have had lapses in judgment. If Greenies understanding of the proposed ordinances are accurate, I hope Art's application is approved. How is him having a wedding, graduation party or another kind of party any different then any number of people with pools who have pool parties? I know of more then one house with a pool in Maplewood aand South Orange, where the teenagers have constant pool parties. My brother and sister both have pools in their yards and there are constantly 20 plus teenagers in the pools. Same with my sister in Florida. Sometimes until 10pm, 11pm and later. (which I don't agree with) Do you also feel for those who live around Orange Lawn? Or What about Maplewood Country Club? Or any pf the other catering places in town? I'd much rather live by Art's B and B then a regular family with a few teenagers having pool parties every weekend in the summer. JML- I don't have a problem with the late into the night parties. I'e even been to a few of them myself. My point was nobody complains about them. Why should one at Art's be any different? Tiki Torches and Porch Parties? Kewl! I don't drink, but perhaps this might be what I'd look like the day after if I did.  Art- Okay I have to say this - Maybe you should have thought twice before posting this: "FWIW, I don't run a business in Maplewood, and wouldn't this be a wonderful world if we all got along just swell, and didn’t take the time to correct others ?" It's exactly the kind of comment that irritates people. Up until recently you were a part owner of Heres2thearts. I didn't realize you no longer had a hand in it until a month or so ago. With the B and B, until you were forced to stop it's operation, you were a business owner of that. And since you hope to be able to re-establish the B and B, you are a potential business owner. Calm down a little Art, okay? Otherwise you're going to have a hard time convincing people they should support your effort to have at least one B and B in Maplewood. | ||
| Colleen Citizen Username: Cbroderick Post Number: 198 Registered: 7-2001  |
I voted YES! I would love to have a local B&B! | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 8197 Registered: 5-2001  |
Art - I thought about it and decided to give you the benefit of the doubt on the utter nastiness of your post: My comments on your business approach are based solely on what you say here on MOL. You pride yourself on being contentious and "in your face" so it is unfortunate if my musing that it may not be the best business tactic is something you interpret as a personal attack. Believe it or not, you are not so fascinating a subject that my friends and I actually talk about you. I have heard their side of the story of what it is like to live next to a B&B. You have told your side here. They have never said anything about you personally. I have, in fact, told them that I wish there were a way to work it out and that my family has stayed with you. But, whatever. I said nothing wrong and I will never, ever choose friends based on someone else's opinion. Nor will I ever have so little self-confidence that I let my friends dictate who else I should befriend. Good luck with your petition. | ||
| HOMMELL Citizen Username: Hommell Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2005 |
What an irresponsible voting mechanism. I would have stayed quiet, but since others abused it, here goes. Any half-wit can figure out how to circumvent. Note to quarter-wit's: Tools > Internet Options > Privacy > Advanced > Override automatic cookie handling > Block (First Party and Third Party cookies) > Ok > Ok. If you haven't voted already, vote at will, early and often as others have done. If you have voted, clear your cookies and vote at will: Tools > Internet Options > General > Delete Cookies. Now back to the actual discussion without the misconception that this "poll" has any bearing on what is an otherwise healthy debate. Thanks a lot News-Record.  | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 9982 Registered: 4-1997  |
noted http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3132&post=635136#POST6351 36 | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 3771 Registered: 7-2002  |
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| HOMMELL Citizen Username: Hommell Post Number: 249 Registered: 11-2005 |
Anyone want to try for 100,000 votes? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5254 Registered: 9-2001 |
Greenetree - I also thought about it and decided to give you the benefit of the doubt on the utter thoughtlessness of your post:  Strange, but I’ve always felt my straight forward approach to business AND people in general was fair minded, honest, and non-biased. FWIW, what I say to anyone here on MOL, I would say right to their face. I won’t re-hash my neighbor issue with you. And, if you consider me controversial, then I guess it just goes with the territory, and I’m guilty as charged. Putting everything else aside, I appreciate your good wishes and I apologize for offending you… Art | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5511 Registered: 1-2004 |
Art- Sometimes though you do come across as nasty in your posts. I was shocked the first time I met you in person as you are very soft spoken in RL. The only MOLer who shocked me more in RL was Strawberry... | ||
| The Dub Citizen Username: Hill_16 Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2005 |
Art - I read the ordinaces which have been explained in detail above - I have just a few questions. It is my understanding that there will only be 4 licenses granted if it passes. Therefore, if there are moe than 4 qualified candidates how will they select the "winners" - first come first served or lottery??? Also if it is a success there does not appear to be any room to expand the number of licensees. Good luck and I hope it passes. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14841 Registered: 1-2003  |
Where do I vote? I can't find the online poll. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5255 Registered: 9-2001 |
HILL_16, ...thank you, but from as far as I can tell licenses will be issued on a first come basis. Personally, I don't suspect a run on applications, but you never know.... | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5520 Registered: 1-2004 |
Art Will the licenses have to be renewed each year? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5256 Registered: 9-2001 |
...yes, they will, and thanks for asking. I believe the last time line discussed was that the licensee must apply for renewal by December 31st each year for a March 1st annual renewal date. This process will give the Township Committee time to review the license holders qualifications and operating history. In the event there should be four active licenses in place, a fifth applicant would automatically be denied. Current license holders will have priority over all other applicants. At least at the moment, I really don’t hold out much hope that there will be a run on applications. However, in past years I taught a course in the Columbia High School night school program. I use to get about a dozen local residents each year who were interested. If the ordinances pass this coming Tuesday night at the Township Committee meeting, I will offer the course again to try to drum up more interest. The problem in many cases is anyone interested in opening a B&B would first have to apply before the towns Board of Adjustment. The process is expensive, very time consuming, and because of the NIMBY factor, many of the issues are almost impossible to overcome. It also causes problems for the Boards who have to hear these applications, as the issues are redundant and take away from other applications for new and/or expanding existing homes or commercial projects. In towns where they have an ordinance to permit bed and breakfast, that process is eliminated. People interested need only comply with the necessary requirements that have already been taken into consideration as fair and reasonable and in the best interest of the community as a whole. | ||
| Ed May Citizen Username: Edmay Post Number: 2433 Registered: 9-2001  |
Art I have been too busy to read or post on MOL during the last 8 months. Today's article in the Ledger, about Les Saisons, however caught the attention of Marilyn and myself. I just had to post our support for the B&B concept in Maplewood in general and for Les Saisons specifically. We found today's Ledger article to be slanted against you. It discounts the large number of people in town who support you. Please count Marilyn and I on your side. What can we do to help? | ||
| george H Citizen Username: Georgieboy Post Number: 242 Registered: 8-2005 |
Ed, we went through the entire Sunday edition of the Star-Ledger & couldn't find that article you referred to. What section was it in? | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15236 Registered: 10-2001  |
That makes two of us. Ed, where is this thing? | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5567 Registered: 10-1999  |
Thanks George and S. I did the same thing, couldn't find the article, and thought that I was "loosing" it. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12005 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think it was only in the special edition that goes to registered Republicans.  | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15237 Registered: 10-2001 |
It's in the same section in which Doug Forrester discusses how he'd pay for tax cuts. | ||
| Ed May Citizen Username: Edmay Post Number: 2434 Registered: 9-2001 |
The Sunday Star Ledger July 2, 2006 Page 42 Section One | ||
| oots Citizen Username: Oots Post Number: 416 Registered: 6-2001 |
the sunday star ledger 7/2/06 p#42 section one-(the essex county section) there is only an article about orange high school-no b&b!! oots | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5556 Registered: 1-2004 |
I scanned it into my computer but can't get it to upload because it's too big for MOL. If someone more knowledgable PL's me I will send them what I scanned. Can't send it through MOL I will need a direct email address. Art- Is it true Jeffrey Morse and his crew sent a private detective to stay at your place? They then took their 'proof' you were still running the B&B to Maplewood's Code Official who told Morse to "Stay out of it?" Priceless if true! While I agree the article appears to be slanted; it does make those living around you who are quoted in the article look even worse. Rick Rodgers who says there is no need for a B and B because there is "something like 50 hotels in a 10 mile radius;" Lauren Davis who complains about the noise over the fence and "People getting frisky;" And then you have David Ricci (who has only lived there two years), and in my opinion who maybe should have done his homework better mad because when he moved in he was told the "bed and breakfast issues had been put to bed," Maybe he should be mad at whoever told him that, not you! The article also quoted what you said on Maplewoodonline about tearing down your house and building two family houses in it's place! BTW - the reporter states in the article message left for you on you cell and home went unanswered. That does make you lok bad. Good Luck on Wednesday. Hopefully after this passes those causing you problems will stop. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5257 Registered: 9-2001 |
"BTW - the reporter states in the article message left for you on you cell and home went unanswered. That does make you look bad. Thanks all for the updates. I've been in Scotland for a family wedding since last week and I don't bother to check all my phone messages after I cross the pond. Anyone important back home knows how and where to reach me if there's a problem. The Ledger could have reached me if they really wanted to. Actually, Dave e-mailed me the other day and asked if it was OK to let the Star Ledger know if I was in fact Ajc. After checking my drivers license to make sure it was still me, I of course gave him permission to confirm who I was, and told him to give them my e-mail address and also let them know that I would be returning home late Monday afternoon. I never received any messages and I know nothing about the article in the Star Ledger... I guess the part about me tearing down my house and building 5 or 6 two family homes there came right out of my post on MOL... Hey, that's pretty cool Dave, I hope they gave MOL the credit for being their source. I also wonder if they bothered to quote me on my feelings about the few idiots I have for neighbors? I love it how Maplewood continues to get all this great exposure as one of the best places to live in America, and now the whole world knows it too... FWIW, this new ordinance has been a long time in coming, and although it’s very restrictive, it’s at least a good beginning. As many of you that follow these threads know, I’ve been a strong advocate for this ordinance over the past seven years. I would encourage anyone living in town who may be interested in opening a bed and breakfast to contact me. Several years ago I taught a course for the Columbia H.S. night school and there were on average a dozen or so people each time who expressed interest in becoming innkeepers. My years of experience in the industry have shown me that there is a real need for this kind of warm personal service that can only be found at a bed and breakfast. I estimate at this point we need a minimum of 25 to 30 rooms for our surrounding communities, and that number will only grow as people become more and more aware of the availability of them. Allowing bed and breakfast homes in town will not only add a quaint charm and convenience for our residents, but will also bring with it a considerable amount of economic benefit as well. A nationwide bed and breakfast industry survey showed that just one guest room generated over $60,000 a year in new income into the community. Maplewood needs to continue to concentrate on its economic development programs and the bed and breakfast ordinance is another big step in that direction. Providing means of overnight accommodations for friends, relatives, and business associates in town means more business for everyone. Well, I have to get ready soon to catch a plane home, so thanks Ed, JTA, and others for the update. And I hope to see some of you at the Township Committee meeting on July 5th… | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10038 Registered: 4-1997 |
I wasn't able to get your confirmation back to Phil Read in time for story deadline, but I'll assume he now has that information from reading this thread. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5560 Registered: 1-2004 |
Art Oh yes Art they did reference MOL. Also mentioned you pulling the plug on someone's radio. It also quotes you as describing your neighbors as "bad mouthing, obnoxious, hateful, nasty blowhards." Not one of your better quotes. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5259 Registered: 9-2001 |
...it's good to be home. I just read the article and thought it's a fair guess of the circumstances, especially given I didn't have a chance to reply to the false comments or misstatements made by Phil and/or by my "bad mouthing, obnoxious, hateful, nasty blowhard neighbors." Sorry JTA, I can only call it as I see it. I don't mean to be cruel, but in the case of the neighbors quoted in the article, it should be obvious they are over the top. They are fulfilling a five year holy war. There's no negotiation, no compromise, and no consideration for anyone but themselves. For people to carry on like this for as long as they have, it’s really no longer about B&B’s, it’s personal. The truth is I have to feel sorry for them and anyone who lives with all this hatred... | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15242 Registered: 10-2001 |
Allowing B&B's in our town is going to be a huge step forward. It's about time. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 875 Registered: 4-2006 |
AJC- Having read the article IMHO the writer gave you a proper hosing, largely as a result of comments you apparently supplied here on MOL. You do strike me as a bit bellicose and angry online, and as the key player in a very public debate and issue, it may not be the wisest of things to have done. That being said I believe the article writer avoided the key question which was how a limited occupancy accomodation under the b&b law would significantly undermine the neighbors quality of life. It is not like an apartment housing complex or a real commercial building was plopped down next door to them. Would they prefer a gas station or convinience store? My sense is that you may have won the battle but not the war in terms of having your neighbors accept the development, especially if you continue to trash them online. It makes smart business sense to be the better person instead, bend over backwards in terms of being considerate, and keep the lines of communication open and available, and with time they just might come around. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5561 Registered: 1-2004 |
Art I'm on your side. I was really surprised by those quoted and think they look a lot worse then the article tried to make you look. Did you really say what they quoted you as saying somewhere? It's too bad Phil Read didn't contact some of those who support a Bed and Breakfast. At least the other side could have been presented. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5260 Registered: 9-2001 |
"...and with time they just might come around." FVF, I sure hope so, but after all these years of continually defending myself against their mean-spirited and aggressive hostility toward me, I'm not going to hold out much hope... I don’t understand why more people don’t ask what’s wrong with this picture? Why has it always been the same three and not the other fifteen families who also live on the boarders of my property? Please consider that none of my eighteen neighbors can hardly see beyond the heavily landscaped and 6’ high fenced boarders of my property. Their homes are mostly 100’ to 150’ away, (two to three normal 50’ wide lots) from my home. Listen, I’m listed in the phone book, and I invite everyone and anyone to come see for yourself how secluded we are from our neighbors. As for the alleged complaints of noise, they’re totally untrue. Apparently, Phil Read came on my property to be able to give the detailed description he gave. It’s a shame he failed to mention in his article anything about the gate I put in years ago for my neighbors to use while enjoying the free and open access to my property and in ground swimming pool.. FWIW, we know most everyone online has their own posting style, especially those who use fictitious names. Many of us also know some of these Molers in real life, and they don’t look, talk, or act like we may have expected them too. I believe those who know me "OFF-LINE", know I'm not an angry or mean-spirited person; I never have and never will be. I’ve always been agreeable to the principles of live and let live, and I would very much welcome any opportunity to put all the bad blood behind us. I again offer my hand in friendship to the Davis’s, the Morse’s, the Ricci’s, and the Roger’s, and welcome anyone willing to help us mend our fences to please come forward at tomorrow nights Township Committee meeting... Tomorrow night is clearly the time to put all these years of silliness behind us and move forward. Everyone knows in their heart of hearts that B&B’s are quiet and friendly places for families to stay, not like noisy commercial hotels and motels. So, as a matter of showing unity and goodwill I wonder if Vic and David would be willing to change their position on the bed and breakfast ordinance and take this opportunity to set an example of how all neighbors, including the Township Committee can work together for the “overall” good of our wonderful community. Having B&B’s in towns across America has always been a welcoming sign for visiting families and friends, and hopefully Maplewood will soon be one of them. I would like to wish a Happy 4th of July to all. | ||
| Ed May Citizen Username: Edmay Post Number: 2435 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have been following the B&B debate for several years now. During those years I have gotten to know Art Christensen quite well. He is a very generous person, who is always willing to help others. I believe that once Les Saisons starts operating as the B&B it should be, that the concerns of Art's neighbors will melt away and that the town's people will wish that Art had been allowed to operate his B&B business unfettered years ago. I say unfettered, but Art has agreed to accept many constraints on his B&B pur forth by the Township of Maplewood. Even though I ran against some of the members of the existing Township Committee a few years ago and do not always see eye to eye with the Mayor, I comment the Township for finally getting to the point where we can all enjoy not just one, but four B&B's in Maplewood. Unfortunately my teaching duties will find me in Newark tomorrow evening but my heart will be a the Township Committee Meeting. Could I attend I wouild proudly walk up to the microphone and speak out in favor of Mr. Christensen, Les Saisons, and the B&B Ordinance. | ||
| oots Citizen Username: Oots Post Number: 417 Registered: 6-2001 |
ajc since the ordinance will allow you to only rent out 4 rooms at a time-what are your plans for the remaining bedrooms? will you continue to have them being used by "non-paying guests"? oots | ||
| Camnol Citizen Username: Camnol Post Number: 402 Registered: 3-2005 |
I'm rather amused by the pool restrictions. I had two neighbors with pools in my previous neighborhood. My next door neighbor had teenagers, and the people next to them had a very large extended family that they had over all the time, which meant lots and lots of pool parties. Never thought to get the town to write restrictions to protect me. But then again, I wouldn't have had the liberal use of their pools that I had. I can't imagine the B&B's pool generating more constant noise than a family with teenagers can! | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 882 Registered: 4-2006 |
AJC- Sometimes NIMBY arguments can be taken to extremes. I can't see a B&B causing a legitimate decline in a neighbor's property values. One actual benefit is that a B&B owner is more likely to keep the property up than say your conventional residential neighbor. Good luck on your ordinance. |
