| Author | Message | ||
     Lucifer Citizen Username: Lucifer Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2005 |
I just received a mailer from the profeta/grodman campaign. It listed 30 things that they have done in the past year and a half. A couple things struck me as curious: 1. Ended hostile relationship between TC and police by initiating direct talks with PBA leadership, stopping mass resignations. In the Profeta Deluca thread an Officer confirmed that the agreement was reached through an arbitrator, not direct negotiating. 7. Led a democratic process which resulted in location of new police/court building on Springfield Ave., next to the Bette White building. Wasn't their original decision to take over the Bette White building? I thought the current decision was reached after public uproar. 17. Began monthly meetings between town and BOE. Hasn't this been going on for quite some time? 24. Evicted the pornography business on Springfield Ave. Can you evict someone from a property you don't own? 25. Closed down the brothel near Prospect/Springfield intersection. I'm sure the police did none of the work. 30. Arranged for County installation of traffic light at the corner of Valley and Oakview. I list this because in the Traffic light thread Profeta supporters claimed it was a Vic move. I wanted to see if anyone else noticed these things, and if anyone could comment on the discrepancies. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8542 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lucifer, I am really beginning to think you are Jerry Ryan in mufti.  1. Whose talking about the contract other than you, certainly not the mailer. Officer G clearly mentions a thaw in the relationship between the TC and the PBA in his posts. 7. It sure was a Democratic process. Originally the TC wanted to use imminent domain, there was an outcry and they changed their mind. I think that is what you call democracy. No? 17. Beats me, but I expect they wouldn't have put this is a mailer if it wasn't true. 24. OK, they pressured the union that owns the building to six the porn palace. They got rid of the place, which I personally find inconvenient because I now have to go to Elizabeth to pick up new toys. 25. Actually, my recollection is that the owner of the building was convinced to see the light and he got rid of the massage parlor. The cops raided the place, but getting it closed was more through negotiations than anything else. I understand Profeta does a really good Don Corleone imitation, yah know, "make you an offer...". 30. Vic talked about a light there I believe, but nothing ever came of it, probably because the County wouldn't give him the time of day. His relationship may have been principaled, but it sure didn't help Maplewood. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7060 Registered: 1-2003  |
Those are good questions. It's possible that they chose the word "evicted" badly in number 24. They may have started legal proceedings which led to the eviction. Your other questions do make it seem the candidates are taking more credit than they should. Perhaps some folks can reply with justifications. | ||
| bolded Citizen Username: Bolded Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2002 |
The traffic light at Valley and Oakview came about as a result of the work done by the Township's Transportation Committee. It was not until a change in the County's Engineer was there any progress in it's implementation. The Township's Engineer was the individual who was instrumental in getting the County to agree on the light and commission a consultant to see if it met NJDOT warrants for a traffic light. | ||
| mplwdian Citizen Username: Mplwdian Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2003 |
Lucifer- I knew the Devil was on DeLuca's side. | ||
| Lucifer Citizen Username: Lucifer Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2005 |
Bobk Your correct, the mailer doesnt specifically mention the contract, perhaps I took it to mean the contract, I could be wrong. In terms of the bette white fiasco, the TC trumped the initial feelings of the townsfolk against the bette white site, then reeling in the aftermath, reversed their decision. At least thats my understanding of what happened. Democratic? Maybe. Again, not sure about the BOE I personally totally agree with you and the porn shop. I miss it already, but profeta didnt evict anyone. If profeta Godfather'd the owner of the massage parlor out, more power to him. But lets be reasonable here. | ||
| bottomline Citizen Username: Bottomline Post Number: 262 Registered: 8-2003 |
Re: Question 24 The owner of the property is the union headquarters that has offices adjacent to the video store. As part of their site plan application, in the fall of 2000, they agreed to close the video store so as to conform to parking requirements. Had they maintained both an office building and a retail store, the common parking lot would have been inadequate for both. Hence, by allowing the video store to stay in operation, the property owner was in violation of the site plan approval granted in November, 2000. No serious enforcement action was taken by the town until last year, when the video store finally left under threat of eviction. - TC | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 5652 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lucifer: Your points are well taken as far as they go. I think the problem here, as I have stated previously is that it is difficult to determine which TC member was most responsible for any given development when Fred's and Ian's tenure immediately followed Vic's and considering that there are five members of the TC at any one time, at least three of which have to approve each measure before it is adopted. I don't have the flier in front of me but let's assume your statements, with the exception of the police contract, are accurate quotes and take it from there. During the time when Vic was on the TC (hard to tell if attributable to Vic's being on the TC), the relations between the Police Department and the Township government were as dreadful as I have ever seen them. They remained dreadful right through the time when Vic left office. Now, several years later, we have not just a police contract but a good working relationship with the police officers. The police station still hasn't been built, to my knowledge shifts haven't been improved yet but the Police are not leaving in the numbers they were two years ago and thanks to recognition ceremonies and promotions among other simple things, the police officers feel more respected and appreciated. Hard to tell when all this started and just who is most responsible but relations between the police and the town are vastly improved now. I don't think anyone would argue that the search for the police station went smoothly. There really was no ideal site for the new building. What I think Fred and Ian are taking credit for here is that the decision to work out a deal with the Mormon Church to use some of their land for the police station is what made the moving of the police station to its present proposed site more likely - the Police Station still hasn't been moved. None of the three candidates proposed the Mormon Church compromise initially. I don't know whose brainstorm the final proposal was or what impact each of the three candidates may have had in bringing it about. All three worked hard to find a workable solution. Note: A better question may be where each of the three candidates presently stand on the eminent domain question. Perhaps representatives of each camp (or the candidates themselves) can answer this one. According to Vic, at a coffee last night, the dialog with the BOE was in place while he was on the TC but has more recently expanded to once a month. Again it is difficult to determine which, if any, of the three candidates was most instrumental in increasing the frequency of these meetings or if there is real need for monthly meetings as long as a meaningful dialog is maintained between the two towns and the BOE. As I recall, the pornography and brothel issues came to light after Vic left the TC but let's not forget Vic's position with the Springfield Avenue Partnership. Vic is in the best position to have known about these businesses before they were closed down he was also in a good position to work to have them closed but it is the TC working with the police department and the owners of the properties which received the most credit for getting the job done. The traffic light was approved by the TC while Vic was Mayor but it took quite some time for the County to approve the funds and get the traffic light installed. Again, it would seem that all three candidates were instrumental in getting the light approved and/or installed. Bottom line is that all three candidates have been extemely active in getting things done in this town -- most often the same things. The real question for voters is what political and philisophical approach each candidate has towards where the town should go from here -- assuming it should go anywhere other than where it is now. | ||
| Danger Citizen Username: Danger Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2004 |
Bob K It is eminent domain not imminent domain and the idea that a government entity would invoke eminent domain flies in the face of democracy. The govenrment should not take private property except in an extreme emergency. Eminent domain was known once as the despotic power. It enables governments to take property from one owner, often small and powerless, and transfer it to another, often large and politically connected, all in the name of economic development, urban renewal, or job creation. Eminent Domain should be the last resort of a government not the first. Only the outcry of public opinion discouraged the unprincipled taking of the Bette White building. Anyone who believes in democracy should not vote for someone who would even think of doing something like this. It is the height of arrogance. What if your home or business is next? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8547 Registered: 5-2001 |
Danger, I think to be fair you should substitute "buy" for "take". One of the posters in the SO threads and involved in municipal finance (and a cynic) posts that governments usually overpay when they buy property under eminent domain. I admit Ms. White's story is a compeling one. She is at the point in her life where she doesn't want to start over. As far as the owner of the building is concerned (and this is my cynical side) is probably very upset that he didn't get a windfall at the taxpayers expense. | ||
| Danger Citizen Username: Danger Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2004 |
Bob, you are right. I should have said buy. However, while the Constitution grants governments the power to take land for public use, it specifies only that owners be given "just compensation" for their loss. Through the years, the people on the losing end of the arrangement have disliked it; the people deciding what needs to be taken have defended it. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8549 Registered: 5-2001 |
Danger, take a look at the SO threads about their use of eminent domain and purchasing property. My favorite is the old Midas building on Valley. A guy made a quick $100,000 in less than a year by selling it to South Orange. Unfortunately Vic and others blocked locations on the south side of SA from consideration because they would have abuted private residences, which I can understand. The area around the "Bette White site" and the old catering hall are about the only places where the 24/7 nature of a police station would not be to close to residences. Luckily a compromosie could be worked out. | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 947 Registered: 3-2003 |
Here we go!!!! Lucifer,Danger and Bolded - Brand new posters, arriving in the nick of time to resurrect my favorite Vic. Throw in Joan's serious answers to lucifer and we have them beginning to be taken seriously. Lucifer, Danger and Bolded, the names sound like typical democrat thug names meant to intimidate. It is what I expect from the essex county machine. Readers, take a look at their very recent arrival and put these Vic proxies in context and hopefully in their place. This is a ploy for my favorite non-candidate - Vic Joan - don't waste your time unless you want Vic to get more publicity and Fred to take it on the chin. | ||
| marian Citizen Username: Marian Post Number: 639 Registered: 9-2001 |
Oh, Lucifer--you are a little Devil, aren’t you!?! 1. Ended hostile relationship between TC and police by initiating direct talks with PBA leadership, stopping mass resignations. I’m not even going to waste my time on this one. Ask ANY COP in town what the force thought about DeLuca and you will find out the truth. 7. Led a democratic process which resulted in location of new police/court building on Springfield Ave., next to the Bette White building. Yes, it was absolutely a democratic process that included, if I recall correctly, a citizen advisory committee that picked the potential sites that the TC considered. Most towns would not even have made the effort to involve so much of its citizenry in this kind of planning process. But hey, if you don't believe me, go over the South Orange Specific message board, search the archives, and read some of the posts by SO residents about how they're pretty much shut out of every major municipal decision their trustees make. (i.e., allowing new housing construction in the quarry, the site selection for the new animal shelter, etc.) 17. Began monthly meetings between town and BOE. There were meetings when Vic was mayor but they were NOT regular. When Fred and Ian were first elected to the Township Committee, they ran on a platform of regular communication with the BOE and they have kept their words on that. 24. Evicted the pornography business on Springfield Ave. 25. Closed down the brothel near Prospect/Springfield intersection. All I can say to this one is, if Vic is such a friend of the Hilton neighborhood, why did he tolerate –as mayor and as the president of the Springfield Ave. Partnership -- a porn shop and an openly operating BROTHEL on Springfield Ave.??? Why didn’t he try to close these businesses down? Are these the kinds of ratables Vic wants to see in Maplewood? 30. Arranged for County installation of traffic light at the corner of Valley and Oakview. That installation of that much-needed light was going nowhere slowly until Fred called the head of the Essex County Dept. of Public Works and got the ball rolling fast.} | ||
| Lucifer Citizen Username: Lucifer Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2005 |
marian and reflecive, I didnt say anything about Deluca in my posts except that he was accused of putting up the traffic light by people in the traffic light thread. I was trying to stimulate conversation based on what I thought were some discrepancies. If I receive a mailer from Vic, I will do the same thing. In terms of the police issue, I was thinking in the context of contractual negotiations, which were resolved by an arbitrator. If the bullet on the mailer only meant that the Police like the TC more now than they did under Deluca then I was wrong in my commentary. As a result of the PBA endorsement of Profeta/Grodman, it would seem that they do indeed like them better than Deluca. But put that into context. Read through the profeta/deluca thread and look at Officer Gugliemo's post, the endorsment of Profeta/Grodman was a result of getting a raise. I absolutely agree that our officers should be paid well, but it seems that a political endorsement should be based on broader subject matter than a pay increase. Also, besides the raise issue, what other concerns did the police have with the TC or deluca? Was Deluca even involved in the negotiations? Finally, I apologize for not registering sooner. I am sorry for any inconvience my posting has caused you. If you like I will discontinue my commentary until it is no longer politically dangerous to either party. | ||
| Woodster Citizen Username: Woodster Post Number: 95 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yep. I’m back. I took a page out of Fred’s book. You know the book where he says one thing but does another. Let’s talk item by item. 1 through 4 have been discussed to death already. We won’t go in to the deal making allegations again. Hell I’ll even give in to these because it’s no big deal. 5) Harrington just took property over shortly before the settlement so there was no reason to believe he wouldn’t have made a deal with Vic. Also, the court gave back about 30k and also lowered the assessment by 30k so that makes it about 640k and going down. 6) Nothing that Vic didn’t do when he was mayor. 7) Vic started the process for locating it on SA but Fred stalled it so it could be done under his watch. 8) Bravo Fred. 9) What has been developed? What new businesses have been brought in to town while Fred has been Mayor? So far we are in the hole the cost of his “renowned” development expert. 10) Again this was Vic’s plan that Fred tried to steal the thunder on. 11) I’ll believe it when I see it, and where is the public input? 12) That’s been going on for years. 13) What services have been shared with South Orange and how much did we save? 14) How much did we save on the merge of the baseball league? 15) More talk no action. 16) Bravo for the donation. Also seen by many as buying votes. 17) Talks have been going on for years just not as often. What has been accomplished with the extra meetings? 18) How many people have been prosecuted to date? How many students withdrew from the school system because of this ordinance? 19) Nice day. But as I said before Vic first recognized us by declaring June Gay Pride month years ago. 20) Bravo again. This was truly a great thing. 21) If they had as many office hours as Vic this wouldn’t have been needed. 22) Held meetings but went ahead with their own plans with the exception of the police building. Too much public outcry to go against that one. 23) Not a big deal. 24) They had a hand in it but they didn’t do it themselves. 25) I thought the SA partnership talked to the landlord and also found him a new tenant. Where were Fred's buddies on the police force while this was going on? 26) Where was this done? 27) Bravo. What exactly they do I’m not sure but it’s got to be a plus for the town. 28) What about on SA? 29) Cram move trucks and traffic on the eastside. 30) Noticed he said “arranged installation” not initiated or negotiated for the traffic light. If this is all they have done in 2 1/2 years then we are in trouble. Vote Vic Deluca only. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3804 Registered: 5-2001  |
Woodie's World. | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 509 Registered: 6-2002 |
"Also, besides the raise issue, what other concerns did the police have with the TC or deluca? Was Deluca even involved in the negotiations?"--Lucifer Did you read Officer G.'s posts, Lucifer? It sounds like Mr. Deluca was demeaning and inflammatory in his dealings with the police. Officer G. posted that Mr. DeLuca used to refer to the police as "cry babies" for asking for a raise. Somebody else posted that in a public meeting, at which a discussion over labor issues became heated, Mr. DeLuca publicly announced that he had heard that an officer or officers had told residents of Maplewood that the town was going downhill. This was taken by the then PBA head as an accusation of racism on the p.d. Or maybe Mr. DeLuca actually did utter the R word about the police DURING CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Observation one: Negotiation by name-calling and inflaming didn't seem to work. He was the mayor of a small town in New Jersey. I don't get his tone. Observation two: As I said, Mr. DeLuca was the mayor of our town. If there actually was evidence of racism on the p.d., why on EARTH would he attempt to solve the problem that way, in public, yelling, inflaming everthing and giving the town a black eye in the process. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 4491 Registered: 10-1999  |
Reflective wrote above: Well, first of all, everyone has a "first time". There's a rumor that an election is coming up - that sometimes inspires people to say something. Reflective, unless you subscribe to the theory that only about 20 people actually participate on MOL (and a quarter of us are Dave), then why attack people for joining the discussion? That having been said, poster "Bolded" has been around since 6-2002 (that's almost three years ago). He or she may be a little taciturn, but not everyone can be as addicted as you or I. On top of that, all Bolded did was provide some facts - why are you attacking someone for that? Oh, and I thought, from reading Lydia's posts, that Mr. DeLuca was not in the good graces of the "Essex County Machine". Maybe you kids should compare notes or something. On a more serious note - You don't have to call people "thugs", just because they disagree with you. And Joan has it exactly right, when she wrote: So, there was no need for Reflective to attack her, either. Hey, is "Joan" a thug name, too? Are there "un-thug" names we could strive for? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8550 Registered: 5-2001 |
Joan, the porn store was an issue when Vic was Mayor. I distinctly remember discussions here. Since there was a zoning violation, it should have been handled a long time ago. |
