| Author | Message | ||
     The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1180 Registered: 3-2004  |
you got me there. i dont answer jaimes question because he refuses to accept that a private business is privately owned and is therefore not a public space. as for you, i would explain why i keep pointing out your complete miscomprehension of what i say and what is posted, but it would get me banned. so i pass. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 1945 Registered: 5-2001 |
And you getting banned would be a bad idea because?????????????? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8294 Registered: 4-1997  |
And I suppose a private restaurant owner should be able to refuse entry to a health inspector? Oh, no... that would be different.  | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1182 Registered: 3-2004 |
yes , it would be different. i am surprised that cant see the difference. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8296 Registered: 4-1997 |
The government is regulating the owner in order to protect public health. That's what government does. FDA, EPA, etc. This isn't really a radical departure for our form of government. Whether or not it's necessary to regulate smoking to the level of local bars is another question. At that level I'd prefer to see owners make choices. I think H2TA will be smoke-free, so if that works as a market incentive it may become a trend and not require govt. to do anything. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3468 Registered: 1-2004  |
Lib- Well your fight against the smoking ban just went up in smoke! You stated "plus, i believe in government. i am far from an anarchist. we need government to protect our freedoms and uphold the law." Well guess what? It is that same government you believe in that is passing the smoking ban to PROTECT those of us who DON'T want to breath the secondhand smoke!!! The 'freedom' of a smoker ENDS where MY right NOT to breath the smoke begins!!! | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1185 Registered: 3-2004 |
you misunderstand the argument, my intent when i said i believe in government, and the central point of what i am stating. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8297 Registered: 4-1997 |
So.... elucidate. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3469 Registered: 1-2004 |
Dave- I've only been there a few times but I thought Heres2theArts is already smoke free. Isn't it? I'm hoping it stays that way after getting everything in order with the liquor license. What Lib can't seem to grasps is there are many establishments that would love to be smoke free but are reluctant because they will look like the bad guy and they believe people will go elsewhere. If it's statewide (and hopefully someday Countrywide) they have nothing to worry about. The one or two things I don't agree with is 1) the exemption of the Casinos and 2) Smoking shouldn't be allowed in public parks. You aren't supposed to drink alcohol in the parks, you shouldn't be allowed to smoke. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1187 Registered: 3-2004 |
there are many establishments that would love to be smoke free but are reluctant because they will look like the bad guy what is your data source for this fact? | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 356 Registered: 6-2001  |
 New Jersey to Become 11th U.S. Smokefree Workplace State Governor says he looks forwarded to signing bill into law Parts excerpted from the Associated Press, 1/6/06 Today, the New Jersey Assembly's health committee passed smokefree workplace legislation. The full Assembly is expected to pass the measure on Monday. The New Jersey Senate passed identical legislation several weeks ago. The bill will require all workplaces to be smokefree, except casino gambling floors. "This is a bill that I look forward to signing into law," acting Gov. Richard J. Codey said in a statement. "With all of the facts we know today, we need to do whatever we can to protect our workers and patrons from being exposed to the dangers of secondhand smoke," said Codey." After hearing nearly three hours of sometimes bitter testimony, Assembly Health Committee vice chairman Herb Conaway, a physician, said the benefits and savings from reducing exposure to secondhand smoke "far outweigh" the costs, real or imagined, to businesses. "We are happy for office, restaurant, and bar workers," said Joe Cherner, founder of BREATHE (Bar and Restaurant Employees Advocating Together for a Healthy Environment), "but we wish the health of casino workers would be treated with the same respect and dignity." Conaway and other committee members conceded the measure was "imperfect" because casino floors would be exempt, but said they would attempt to remove that exemption in a later bill. "This is a giant step forward," Senator Loretta Weinberg told the committee. Weinberg has worked for 10 years trying to pass clean indoor air legislation. The measure had broad support from all major health groups and was strongly endorsed by state Health Commissioner Fred M. Jacobs, a physician and longtime health activist. "Smoking contributes to more diseases and deaths in New Jersey than any other cause," Jacobs said. "Secondhand smoke is the third-leading cause of preventable death in this country. It kills 53,000 non-smokers nationwide each year, including 1,800 in New Jersey." Jacobs noted that 10 states, including neighboring Delaware and New York, have adopted similar smokefree workplace laws with no loss in jobs or revenues. | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 357 Registered: 6-2001 |
By the way - Joe Cherner, founder of BREATHE (Bar and Restaurant Employees Advocating Together for a Healthy Environment) is a libertarian, and the one I was quoting a few days ago. | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 360 Registered: 6-2001 |
Vote is coming up right now! Listen here: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/media/live_audio.asp | ||
| mickey Citizen Username: Mickey Post Number: 367 Registered: 10-2001 |
i've been listening since the beginning. Lots of voting today in our state legislature. If this bill passes, how long until it's enacted? | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 361 Registered: 6-2001 |
I believe it takes effect in 90 days. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 761 Registered: 7-2004  |
Jamie - IF Joe Cherner started BREATHE then he is not a libertarian. He may claim to be one; but by definition he is not. | ||
| mickey Citizen Username: Mickey Post Number: 368 Registered: 10-2001 |
I wonder how long this debate will go on? The concerns of restaurant/bar owners are NOT being discounted, as one assemblyman mentioned; they are being taken into account. Their economic AND health concerns. And yes, the casinos should be included, but this is a good first step. | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 362 Registered: 6-2001 |
NJ has passed the smokefree bill!! 64-12-2 | ||
| mickey Citizen Username: Mickey Post Number: 370 Registered: 10-2001 |
YAY! It passed ! 64-12 (2 abstentions) | ||
| mickey Citizen Username: Mickey Post Number: 371 Registered: 10-2001 |
ok, Jamie, thanks for all your updates about this. You said we can maybe expect enactment in 90 days? On what info/policies do you base this? I know the Gov has to sign it into law, which he will....but I'd love to know what date I can go to the pub and celebrate SMOKE-FREE! | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 364 Registered: 6-2001 |
Yes, the bill states that it "takes effect on the 90th day after its enactment". I'm not sure how quickly it gets to the Governor's office for signing, but I would say by April 15th it will be in effect!!! I'm so glad an overwhelming majority went in favor of health - and hopefully they'll make a motion to add casinos to the bill in the near future - this is a great first step. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 762 Registered: 7-2004 |
First step to what? Government control of everything? | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 365 Registered: 6-2001 |
The first step in saving lives. And I truly hope this encourages many people to quit deadly nicotine addiction. Government control? Name a few other Group A carcinogens that you believe should be allowed in public spaces. | ||
| Kathy Leventhal Citizen Username: Kml Post Number: 53 Registered: 9-2001 |
What a terrific victory! Many thanks to Jaime and everyone else who joined the effort by doing their part to win a healthier environment. Sincerely, Kathy Leventhal Maplewood Township Committee 973-378-9897 | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11847 Registered: 1-2003  |
Jamie is apparently too polite to point out the correct spelling of his name, which is the first word of this sentence. | ||
| John Caffrey Citizen Username: Jerseyjack Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2005 |
When I left the State House this afternoon, the expectation was that the Gov. would sign the bill on Sunday. (I don't know why he chose Sunday). If so, the bill will become effective 90 days after. This will give municipalities time to educate proprietors about the parameters and sanctions of the law. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1239 Registered: 3-2004 |
another erosion of personal freedom. those of you who supported this bill had better not have anything to say about GW's wire taps or his upcoming bill to restrict speech on the internet. they are all erosions of personal freedom. anybody who thinks the importance of this bill is smoking, is naive and clueless. | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 370 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thomas Jefferson believed in Personal Freedom and the pursuit of happiness. His personal freedom included owning slaves. Times change. We have overwhelming evidence that ciagrette smoke KILLS - that's the difference. Do you think people dying is bad? Deaths that are preventable? | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3532 Registered: 1-2004 |
Libbie The smoking bill may be "naive and clueless," BUT many of us are VERY happy it passed!!! I hope sometime in the near future casinos will also be added to the ban! Even better I'd like to see the ban be Nation wide! | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1420 Registered: 2-2005  |
Like Thomas Jefferson, some are more worried about "their" personal freedom than that of "others." | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3535 Registered: 1-2004 |
Ah Ref, would you please clarify your 9:21pm post? | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1421 Registered: 2-2005 |
I assume you refer to the 10:21 post. No. It is what it is. Hint: read Jamie's 10:15pm post | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 904 Registered: 6-2001 |
See the other thread: http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3127&post=519421#POST5194 21 TomR | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3537 Registered: 1-2004 |
Thanks Ref, that's what I thought. That the smokers were more concerned about their 'right' to smoke then what the seconhand smoke did to those who choose not to emoke. Right? And you agree with the ban? | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1250 Registered: 3-2004 |
Like Thomas Jefferson, some are more worried about "their" personal freedom than that of "others." this is an unbelievable statement! there can be no freedom for others if we ourselves are not free. it is the foundation for the declaration of independence and the constitution. the very basis of the founding of this nation! please tell me that your statement isnt really what you meant. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 108 Registered: 8-2005 |
Come on, you don't really believe in absolute personal freedom do you? You must recognize that some "personal freedoms" infringe on the rights of others and therefore must be regulated. Don't you? I mean, what about someone's "personal freedom" to rob or maim or murder someone? The job of government is to regulate "personal freedoms" so that people are protected from things that might harm them. Banning toxic air pollution in public spaces seems to me to fall squarely into this category of restricting "personal freedom." | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1251 Registered: 3-2004 |
a restaurant or a bar is not a public space! it is a privately owned business that reserves the right not to serve people. saying they are a public space is the same as saying your home is a public space. you let people in but reserve and use the right to keep some people out. | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2005 |
Not according to the law. If it's open to the public, it's a public space. The government already regulates health standards, handicapped access, drinking ages, etc. in bars and restaurants. How is this different? If they're open to the public, restaurants and bars aren't allowed to deny service to minorities. Do you support a bar's "personal freedom" to not admit, say, African Americans? | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 380 Registered: 6-2001 |
Do they or do they not have to adhere to health regulations? Name another Grade A carcinogen that is currently allowed in restaurants. It's not a public space- but is a BUSINESS that deals directly with the public. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3541 Registered: 1-2004 |
You'll never guess who the Star Ledger says is one of the more outspoken elected / appointed offical person against the smoking ban! |
