| Author | Message | ||
     cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1722 Registered: 12-2003  |
Elaine: Have you tried asking the BoT directly? Might get a more efficient response. This is just a message board where people post things that are, at best, 38% true. | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 65 Registered: 10-2005 |
Personally I say if this person who borrowed the money from us wants to borrow more we should give it to him/her. Atleast this person developed what is the only nice section of town. Why dont we give this person the rest of the town to develop. | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 109 Registered: 6-2005 |
I looked at the spot when the rumor started. It is a great spot. My understanding is it was already sold. Thanks Brett and Aunt for thinking of me. Very funny post Brant! | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2005 |
Mr. Flood you should look at the spot next to it on So ave. This would be a great spot for you!!! Meanwhile I really meant it! Give this person who ever they are all the money they want!!! It is without question the only developed piece of commercial property that has been done and up and running. All the businesses are first rate each and every one! This landlord who ever they are gets it! This person has standards and I hear makes the businesses adhear to them. This is a landlord that cares about this town! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They all have beautifully carved and painted signs all the same style...all have awnings!!!! DAAA!!!! Does any trustee get it yet??? This is the person to put in charge of the development of the town!!! The town Hall building is a dump falling apart! If the government of this town cannot keep their own building from looking like the beifus site then how can we expect them to have a standard for anyone else!!! | ||
| I. Kant Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 295 Registered: 6-2005  |
{Insert current photo of the Old Stone House} | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3809 Registered: 1-2004  |
I'm not happy about the sign I saw in the window of the empty store near the Exxon Station. A Subway is going to open thre! ICK! Would much rather have had Sean. And Stevef, I just notice the mistake I made! Now I know why you posted 'No you didnt!" Cause I didn't! LOL | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3307 Registered: 5-2001  |
JTA - Yes...I'm afraid so. Also, per an earlier thread, a Quizno's is also opening in town. Looks like we will be oversaturated with subs very soon. | ||
| Erin Cartman Citizen Username: Carnac Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2005 |
A Subway..... a Quiznos...... and yet no Campus Sub..... Let's see the date of the last thread going on about looking for a place for Campus Sub was September..... Soon Lenard Nimoy is going to host a special episode of "In Search of..." for Sean. (Damn I must be getting old -- coworker just told me they stopped making that show in '82!) | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1723 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree that Subway is gross, but Quiznos is great. And I've been saying forever we need at least ONE PLACE you can get a fast, cheap, reasonably enjoyable lunch in town that isn't an overpriced deli. | ||
| monster Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 1987 Registered: 7-2002  |
mmmmmm Quiznos | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3815 Registered: 1-2004 |
If we boycott the Subway, maybe they'll leave real quick and we can get Sean in there! Also, I though South Orange didn't want 'chain' stores? | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 372 Registered: 6-2005 |
This is what lack of vision, strategy and professional development is all about. Let's attract fast food chains up the kazoo. Maybe a few more dry cleaners and nail salons, too. In no time, we can depreciate property values. Seems like a plan. Hey, what about a few more drug chains, Mr. Calabrese? I'm sure there is room for a CVS and an Eckerds. | ||
| Sitoyan Citizen Username: Sitoyan Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2004 |
Although the trustees, or Main Street, could go out and bring-in the kind of businesses we want, It is not entirely up to them. The landlords have the last word and they establish their rents. So if we want to be selective about the businesses that come into town, it is up to the Chamber of Commerce to educate their landlord members about what the residents would support or not. What about it Elaine Harris? | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 80 Registered: 12-2004 |
What about what? Are you asking for my opinion or my advice? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3309 Registered: 5-2001 |
cmonty - Have you tried "It's a Wrap"? They have GREAT sandwiches, are reasonably priced and are very quick. | ||
| Sitoyan Citizen Username: Sitoyan Post Number: 139 Registered: 7-2004 |
You are the president of the Chamber, yea? How about the Chamber takes up the task to educate the landlords about attracting the right tenants. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1724 Registered: 12-2003 |
The chain stores everyone hates (dunkin donuts, starbucks, coldstone) are also some of the most stable businesses in town. I'm not saying we should try to lure mcdonalds as the answer to our prayers. But turning away a restaurant just because it's a franchise seems awfully short sighted. The town is absolutely free to mandate a particular "look" for buildings. There's no reason a Subway has to look like a typical Subway, for instance. But then again, judging from the rest of downtown, we already have a hodgepodge. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 373 Registered: 6-2005 |
The reason the chain stores are successful is as much about the atmosphere they create as anything else. Frankly, the products they offer are not so special that a smart independent couldn't provide something better. Where the independents miss the mark is by trying to short cut on design and the whole retail experience. I'd take a Millburn Deli over Subways anyday. Those business people in the deli "get it". | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2295 Registered: 5-2004  |
The reason the chains offer a "better" experience is because they have the benefit of time. They have been doing it a long time, and have proven formulae for providng that experience. However just as there can be a digusting local deli and a fantastic local deli, you can have a disgusting chain store/restaurant and a great chain store/restaurant. It all depends on the owner and manager of the franchise/store. You might take a Millburn Deli over a Subway, but would you take a gross, locally ownered deli over a well maintained chain with fresh food? | ||
| Daniel M. Jacobs, PP, AICP Supporter Username: Conrail Post Number: 89 Registered: 1-2004 |
I wish we had a Chipolte Grill. . . we have a strategic advantage since Maplewood forbids chains and chains pay taxes. . . | ||
| Josh Holtz Citizen Username: Jholtz Post Number: 255 Registered: 4-2004 |
I think Cmonty has hit the nail on the head. If we all want the college students to spend their money in town then we have to succumb to certain businesses. Subway will be another stable business in town (for the same reason Sweet Concessions was not - a shame IMO). However, the Village can help dictate store fronts and building facades to beautify any chain store. I still say that the store facades/windows of the downtown are a major problem that needs to be addressed. Yeva Salon, Hunan Garden, etc. really hurt the look of the downtown. Look at the difference some of the newly painted buildings make. | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 81 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sitoyan: The landlord on Sloan Steet does not need any education from me or anyone else. That landlord should educate us! If anyone needs education it is the government entity, especially the "legal" entity that gave this landlord our $500,000 with no strings attached. That landlord knows how to give a tenant a killer lease. The cost to develop was passed through to the tenants, and the landlord (who COLLECTS over $20,000 PER MONTH) got away scot free. Based upon the silent thud to my question above, I am concluding that the money has not been repaid. I guess they thought we would forget about it. The issue I am addressing is not about the look of the development, the issue is: Why is our taxpayer money being so carelessly managed? (If it can be shown that the money has been repaid, I will stand corrected.) | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 110 Registered: 6-2005 |
Michael Brant, I am not sure of the spot you are referring to??? Please explain. As to everyone else, trust me, we have busted our tails to find a spot. I've said it before but it can't be just any spot. We really want to do it right. Anything remotely decent has been sooooo ridiculously over priced, it's no wonder there are so many vacant storefronts. I suspect landlords either believe the marketplace is that strong or waiting for a national franchise with deep pockets. So far no luck with Main Street either. I think they’re in some sort of transition right now but not real sure. I’m not a big fan of "chain" sandwich shops -not because they would be perceived as competition but my experience has been the low quality of product. To boot the service seems to lack. Maybe that is because there is no one there with a vested interest? A subway opened in Ivy Hill and I heard it is a mess. Often littered with trash etc... I would suspect Quiznos or Subway in South Orange would not be that way and would do quite well. At least I hope so. Let's face it. Competition is good for your business. The more decent (and I stress that word decent) businesses in South Orange (and that includes restaurants) the higher level of quality and service it takes to make it. I also like Millburn Deli. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 370 Registered: 5-2004  |
Elaine - I'm curious to read an answer to your very good question too! (To add to the "wishes" for another good eatery, I wish for a "Veggie Heaven", like in Montclair. I'm not even a vegetarian but love to eat there!) | ||
| Allan J Rosen Citizen Username: Allanrosen Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2003 |
Elaine: As you know Mr Heller has a 15-year lease (a pass-through of an ECIA loan to the Village plus a 1% processing fee). He is up-to-date with his payments. There is approximately $150,000. left of principal, which should be paid off in June, 2010. Why do you want to suggest that the Village is negligent in this transaction? do you have some hidden motive? | ||
| Erin Cartman Citizen Username: Carnac Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2005 |
ELAINE HARRIS might have a hidden motive for something she does?!? I am shocked!  | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2531 Registered: 4-2002 |
EH: I am waiting for the exact status. Last time I asked, he was current with all his payments. Just for those who do not know, the deal was made prior to most of the current trustees being on the BOT (and I don't know what the vote was so not sure if Allan was in favor or not). I don't see that the rents he charges are any higher than other landlords charge for space, especially taking the location into consideration. I think the deal has worked out well for the town and for the landlord. Clearly the space looks infinitely better than it did before Mr. Heller (Lokko-Motive) was bought into the picture. One of the conditions was he could not rent to only one business (some saw this as an anti-CVS clause). There has been a nice mix and he has managed to find new businesses so any stores that have not succeeded have been turned over quickly. Main Street has worked with many store owners over the years and thru the "fronts" program, many businesses were able to improve their storefronts. Most of the newer awnings and signs in town were partially funded thru this program. Some landlords and storeowners refused assistance and that remains a problem even today. Although Sean does not really agree with this and with 20-20 hindsight, he is beginning to look right, the village did do what we could to keep a privately owned deli in the village (Town Hall Deli). At this point, it is up to them to get their construction finished and to open for business. Everyone had hoped we would have our sloppy joe's again (Another super bowl without them). | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1390 Registered: 9-2004 |
I think Cmonty has hit the nail on the head. If we all want the college students to spend their money in town then we have to succumb to certain businesses. Subway will be another stable business in town Let's add in the SOMS – the students and teachers who would patronage this business. I do like their wraps.  Quiznos is even better! | ||
| I. Kant Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 298 Registered: 6-2005 |
The motive was simple. The governing body decided to make Mr. Heller a wealthier man than he was before. The high rents compared to his investment yields returns of 250% per year. How's that for a non starter. Or perhaps the good trustee could allow for a better public understanding of this windfall. I'm sure there were many other interested players for that development - and who ever negotiated the remaining value of the lease @ $500,000 due Mr. Haberman at the time of his buy-out? Can someone explain this? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2533 Registered: 4-2002 |
Elaine: Where did you get the 250% return? I have heard numbers anywhere from 5 - 10%, but never one so high. Mr. Heller might be making a lot of money, but it would appear based on Trustee Rosen's post, that his profit comes from how well he has managed the space rather than at the expense of the village. In fact, it would seem that since Sloan street is the one area where everyone has seen results that maybe it would be prudent to let Mr. Heller take over more village owned property. I am really interested in why you seem so angry about a deal that appears to have worked for both sides. | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 111 Registered: 6-2005 |
MRosner what exactly has happen that has started to "make me look right"? I don't understand your post. | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2005 |
Never count someone elses money. If he made money from his development of this property my hat is off to him. He did a great job Sloan street is a lovely place to shop! | ||
| Erin Cartman Citizen Username: Carnac Post Number: 37 Registered: 5-2005 |
So we bash the landlords who let their property go to heck in a hand basket and trash the succesful ones too..... Well at least MOL is an equal opportunity kind of place! | ||
| Debra Davidson Citizen Username: Peanutslady Post Number: 123 Registered: 5-2005  |
I do not like Quizno's. Me and a friend got sick from eating at Quizno's. Subway is just OK. I personally prefer to get my subs from places like the Campus Subs Shop or Village Pizza. Village Pizza has terrific subs. Has anyone els tried them? I so saw sign on the Blue Moon Diner that said Village Diner coming. I hope it is A real Diner were you can get breakfast all day and night. | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 82 Registered: 12-2004 |
The comments above were never intended to bash a landlord, just the opposite. I was addressing the issue about blaming landlords for not getting better businesses after someone suggested that the Chamber should educate the landlords. Ideologically, I do not think the government should have financed an affluent person for a cream puff project that millions of other people would have taken. Why should the taxpayers be a private bank? Mr. Rosner: I do not know what is meant by the 250% return. That is not my post and not my math. Ask Parkingsux. Erin Cartman: what is the meaning of your sarcastic remark aimed at me? What "motive" do I have that is not legitimate? You do not have to agree with me, but what was YOUR motive for making that remark? This is why intellectual discussions are almost impossible on this board. You offered nothing substantive to this discussion, but just jumped on solely to direct a nasty comment at me. I am sure that many other people are reluctant to join discussions because of people like you. Your comment added nothing to the discussion and was totally rude and offensive. Allan Rosen: I recall that the lease for Sloan Street was 25 years, not 15, and that the loan was supposed to be paid off in 5 years, not 15. However, if the payments are current, so be it. But what a sweet heart deal!!! Do you all really believe that the development could not have been done without it? | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 112 Registered: 6-2005 |
MRosner What exactly has happen that has started to "make me look right"? I don't understand your post. | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 83 Registered: 12-2004 |
Ditto: What exactly has happened to make Sean "look right"? That is the most provocative statement yet, I join Sean in probing for an explanation. | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 200 Registered: 7-2004 |
Many folks - like me - weren't here before the station redevelopment occurred. I probably read too much into its success (ie, "just look what could happen to the rest of this village") when I was house hunting. Actually, I remain optimistic about SO because macro forces beyond the control of anyone in SO bode well for our location (midtown direct, 20 minutes to airport, proximity to S Mountain reservation - 'hey, great commute and you can get body parts here'). That said, people in SO need to take responsibility for and engage in serious Planning, as suggested by E. DeVaris among others. Planning, as much as Execution, will be key to future success. Every flub (NJ transit lot, operating subsidy for SOPAC as far as the eye can see, Beifus, etc., etc.) makes it incrementally more difficult to succeed, but the larger forces will prevail if we take Planning seriously and look before we leap into deals with the Beifus's and, even, the Milleniums. Let's have some confidence and selectivity about what we're doing. Collectively we're sitting on a gold mine...I see transit oriented development taking off all over the country...let's use our leverage of controlling or being able to control RE near the train station to shape the future of the village for the benefit of all villagers, not just the narrow interests of a few developers and the elected officials they're cozy with. Down from Soapbox and veering back onto the thread....I believe there is a Transportation report on the SO village web site (funded by a grant, done by a big name firm) that is, I believe, where I saw a photo of the train station before the redevelopment. I was amazed. The redevelopment so totally transformed the appearance. I like to think I can "imagine" creatively. I must say I would not have guessed it would turn out so well based on the "before" photo I saw. I can get worked up pretty easily about Saiyd and Beifus and other topics, but in this case, I believe if it was a sweetheart deal, it was the type of pump priming that was needed. My question to the BOT & VP is not how could you do the Heller deal, but "what have you done for us lately that has worked as well or anywhere close to as well?" I will say Heller could pay up for more garbage cans and kick in for keeping the trash picked up. | ||
| John Caffrey Citizen Username: Jerseyjack Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2005 |
The Millburn Deli -- Get one of their "Friday Specials" and a couple of extra napkins --- HEAVEN | ||
| Veritas Ultimo Citizen Username: Veritas_ultimo Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2005 |
To SO1969: As one who lived here before the redevelopment of Sloan Street, I have a different perception of the process. At one time Sloan Street was full of stores. Then, the party (the sub-landlord) who had leased the station from New Jersey Transit began raising rents at the time of lease renewal by factors of three and four. The merchants all left as their leases came to term. The sub-landlord stopped all maintenance of the empty stores. Seepage from the trestle caused cielings to collapse. Mysteriously, the State Officials responsible for making sure that State owned leaseholds are not falling into ruin and the local authorites from the Village who claim some jurisdiction over the stores at the station were all missing in action. Within three years, an active commercial zone was suddenly a blight. What to do? Penalize the sub-landlord for allowing State property to deteriorate? No. In order to prime the pump to get better stores (remember, the South Orange Board of Trustees loves businesses, just not the one who are here), the Trustees lent $750,000.00 to a corporation (Lokko Motive)with no assets (and no collateral or personal guaranty) except for the New Jersey Transit Lease it purchased from the sub-landlord. Thus, the sub-landlord was rewarded for turning a row of businesses into empty stores and the new corporation was lent money that, if the rental failed, would not have to be paid back to the Village. If the project failed, the Lease would be turned over to the Village. (This is why Village Counsel Matthews felt he was able to say the $750,000.00 loan was "secured". "Secured" in the sense that if the lease was unprofitable to Lokko, then it could be dumped on the Village.) Another interesting fact in this overly interesting saga is that the Trustees went to great lengths at justifying the loan at the time by saying that the station space could only be used for retail sale purposes. This criteria has never been met. I don't begrudge the principal of Lokko Motive for making an extremely large amount of money. However, I am disappointed that he was so much better at being a businessman than the Board of Trustees were at being a responsible govermental authority. The Village, in one stroke, rewarded a sub-landlord for letting the center of the Village deteriorate and then rewarded another with a sweetheart deal to make it right. The real trouble started after this when the Trustees began viewing the transaction as their having some actual redevelopment skill as opposed to them just having been well played by a talented real estate manager. The skill sets for selling municipal bonds, making hair for baby dolls and writing criminal appeal briefs for the public defender's office don't overlap very much with those required for successful redevelopment planning. |
