| Author | Message | ||
     MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3320 Registered: 5-2001  |
Can someone please explain what Terriann-Moore-Abrams meant when she discussed the "New Demographic" in South Orange? If she meant what I THINK she meant, it seemed quite racist and troubling to me. www.howard-levison.com/bot01232006_Diversity.wmv | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 113 Registered: 1-2006  |
Couldn't open it, but definitely interested. Any chance of copying the text? J.B. | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 164 Registered: 5-2005  |
MHD, what do you think she meant?? (not trying to be smart, just asking!) | ||
| mwoodwalk Citizen Username: Mwoodwalk Post Number: 509 Registered: 9-2001 |
So let me get this straight: its racist for someone to refer to an increase in black residents moving to town?? Let's assume for the moment that there is in fact an increase in SO's population of black residents--which I don't know to be true, but let's assume it is--and lets assume further that she was referring to black residents by the comment. How does acknowledging that fact make her racist? Also, I find it interesting that the allegedly racist speaker in this case is herself black (or so it appeared from the poor quality video I saw). I would have expected the racism accusation were the speaker white, because whites aren't allowed to acknowledge a person's racial background in our PC community. This is insanity. Personally, I was more troubled by the comment she made suggesting that appointments to government positions/by government officials (that was the topic, from what I could tell) should be guided by race, i.e., that we should make sure that these appointments mirror our town's population. Personally, I don't give hoot what an appointee's race is, I would hope that experience and competence is the guiding principle. An incompetent appointee hurts us all, even if that person's demographic profile is deemed somehow more "representative" of our town's population. To accept that guiding principle is to accept the logical fallacy that you cannot be properly represented or served by a government official unless he or she shares your racial or ethnic background. That is nonsense and is, in my estimation, simply bad public policy. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3876 Registered: 1-2004  |
Is this going to continue with every BOT meeting? Terri bringing race into everything? I am SO glad I didn't vote for her. | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 117 Registered: 1-2006 |
Seriously, I can't open this link. What are we/you guys talking about? J.B. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3321 Registered: 5-2001 |
JTA - This clip was from the LAST meeting, but first had a chance to post it now. JB - Basically, TerriAnn & Stacey read Beifus the riot act for not bringing "diverse" members of their team to the Meeting. Later (as shown in the clip), an audience member questioned where the "diversity" concern suddenly disappeared to regarding the appointment of Theroux to the Parking Authority. TerriAnn then lectured the audience member that he better get used to the "new demographic" in town. If a Caucasian person said such a thing...it would be racist. I think it is racist for an African-American woman to say the same thing. | ||
| Greeneyes Citizen Username: Greeneyes Post Number: 737 Registered: 8-2001 |
It's difficult to comment because it seemed that Ms. Moore-Abrams was responding to a comment made by the man at the podium. ( I'm not sure of his name) Maybe if we had the entire dialogue we would know exactly what she meant, or was responding to. | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 118 Registered: 1-2006 |
Okay, I can't see the actual text. I thought a predominantly Black demographic was the history here. I am confused about African Americans being a "new" demographic. I think this thread is about a detail of the back-and-forth that I'm missing. But I am interested. J.B. P.S. How do I watch this? On a Mac. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3322 Registered: 5-2001 |
The file is a WMV file that can be played with Windows Media Player. I did a quick search and it looks like there is a version for the MAC: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?pid=windowsmedia | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 119 Registered: 1-2006 |
MHD, Thanks for your help. I just tried to download the application to open the thing you are talking about. None of it works. I'm the freaking global village idiot. I swear, I might have something useful to say about this, but I have to sign off. I don't want to go on record about an issue I haven't seen first hand. Racism? I'm against it. I wish I could say more. J.B. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3877 Registered: 1-2004 |
MHD- The link still doesn't work. I get what looks like some strange code. Ya know, when Terri does all her bellyaching about how she thinks there is a lack of diversity, she should include more then race. I think she does this to take attention away from the fact most of the BOT acts like a bunch of clowns. By putting the spotlight on how many people of color are or aren't part of a team, she attempts to draw attention away from the fact these bozos have no clue what they're doing in the redeveloping of the town. Sorry Bill, I like you as a person, but .... | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 383 Registered: 6-2005 |
When you look at the complete video of the meeting on the village website(and it is a chore!), it is absurb to realize that these people are in public office. The “new demographic” comment was outrageous. What about Asians, Ms Moore and Ms Jennings? Why aren't they represented in your "new demographic"? And do Hispanics count? Or does your "new demographic" only count if they are "people of color", as Ms. Moore was quick to point out when she discussed her appointment to the Board of Health. Does the "new demographic" take into account age or income? Plus, is the "new demograhpic" even new? Until the next census is done, I doubt we'll know. So why the presumption that it has changed, and why the focus on one segment only? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8544 Registered: 4-1997  |
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. Martin Luther King Jr. | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 72 Registered: 10-2005 |
Where was Bills gavel? Jennings and Moore should step down from their ELECTED positions. They are an embarrassment to our community | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10555 Registered: 5-2001 |
Between the 1990 census and the 2000 census the black population in both SO and MW about doubled to nearly 33 1/3rd of the population. Still it sounds a little extreme to be beating up on a relatively small developer for not having minority participation in his project. I think there are a lot more valid criticisms of the individual in question than that. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1382 Registered: 3-2003 |
Jersey Boy - Your comment that "I thought that a predominantly Black demographic was the history here" is interesting. Although the black population is not yet over 50%, I think your impression is shared by a lot of people. The 2000 census did show that the black population in SO is 33 1/3 percent. But that was six years ago. Maybe Barbara can share with us the most recent statistics. I'm sure that the CCR keeps track of these numbers. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2006 |
Their campaign literature was the only campaign literature I saw in the Prescription Counter. Thus, it seems to me he endorsed them. jd | ||
| I. Kabish Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 301 Registered: 6-2005  |
Paul Salvatoriello did not get elected because as the saying goes "he does not look like me" in the eyes of some. That's the truth and those my friends are the new ground rules. The treatise, so mentioned by our newly elected trustees, whom I endorsed as my vanguard into the new frontier, is provocative. It is with this perceived right that I will govern the new "demographic". And in the court of public opinion the rule of attribution will be known only to people who think like me. If that's not a tasty crockpot, I'll tell you about my investment in Germany. | ||
| Barbara Citizen Username: Blh Post Number: 608 Registered: 5-2001  |
As you might not know,as of 12/31 I'm no longer working for the Community Coalition. So, while postings under my own name never were, this is certainly not a statement on behalf of the Coalition. There's no way to track the racial makeup of a community between census reports -- the Coalition does try to identify the race of inmovers, but does not record them against the race of sellers. The Coalition does try to measure "demand" in certain areas by race, by looking at HMDA (mortgage) data, which lags several months behind (it is publicly available about 6 months into the next year, so the Coalition would be getting all of the 2005 data sometime in 2006.) In any case, an educated guess would be that there has not been as dramatic a change from 2000 to today as there was between the reports of the 1990 and 2000 census -- white and black demand seem to be keeping apace, with white demand picking up from where it had been in the late '90s. I don't have those statistics handy right now. By the way, I'm now at www.opensoc.org -- still in the same field, just different focus. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8546 Registered: 4-1997 |
The real issue in the comment is the fact madam trustee doesn't understand the law. Government contract set-asides are for minority- AND WOMEN-owned businesses. Unless we have a dramatic change in the number of women living in South Orange, the "demographic" comment is kind of out of line. Imagine if a white guy in an increasingly gentrified Harlem said, "there's more of us white folk coming and we're going to start taking some of these developer contracts now." Outrageous. There would be massive protests and huge headlines in the tabloids. That was the citizen at the podium's point and both trustees were, in my view, completely ignorant to speak down to him so rudely. The best results come from being as open and inclusive as possible. Most of us living in M/SO tilt liberal (as both Ds and Rs and Is) and appreciate our diverse communities and know that any dramatic tilt in one direction or the other will not benefit anyone. My view is let's hope our trustees can make better use of their time in making improvements and SPEEDING THINGS UP in our decade-old disaster known as "the village." | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 461 Registered: 1-2004 |
Does anyone know "madam trustee"? Has anyone actually spoken to her about how her remarks are completely outrageous and outofline? I thought there was at least one voice of reason on the BOT. | ||
| mary032 Citizen Username: Mary032 Post Number: 214 Registered: 8-2001 |
joel, Bill Calabrese endorsed them alright! Not only he and Arthur Taylor put the slate together, Bill send a letter of endorsement to thousand of Villagers the week before the elections. Here are some excerpts of that letter: "...I need your help in the Village Trustee election next Tuesday. Without the support of a majority of the Board, I cannot complete our vision of South Orange ..." ??? Our vision ??? "...I have tried to work effectively on your behalf over the years to keep South Orange a great place to live..." Just look around you. "... I know all eight candidates well and feel that the Village Independents team of Stacey Jennings, Terriann Moore-Abrams and Paul Salvatoriello best reflect my visions of a vibrant, diversified community with an exciting Village center..." ??? His vision ??? "... Please vote line C at your regular polling place Tuesday..." So we did. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2006 |
Notice the conflation of "our vision" and "my visions." jd | ||
| mary032 Citizen Username: Mary032 Post Number: 215 Registered: 8-2001 |
Soo, if Stacey Jennings and Terriann Moore-Abrams reflect Calabrese's vision, we know that we can not expect much from them, other than attacking decent citizens with shouts like "how dare you" (Terriann), and spreading divisiveness and racism in our perfectly integrated and diversified community by again attacking decent citizens with comments like "certain subtleties" (Stacey). Remember that one? What a circus.  | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3888 Registered: 1-2004 |
Crabby There is at least one person who I know for a fact reads and posts on MOL who considers Terri a friend. She also worked on Terri's campainge. If I remember correctly what I was told by them when they sent me a PL telling me they had lost all respect for me whn I agrees with someone for saying Terri was 'stupid.' I am hoping this person sees this thread and confronts Terri. As an African American woman she should be calling Terri on the carpet for her behavior. I have noticed the peson who sent me the PL hasn't posted in this thead. | ||
| patjoyce Citizen Username: Patjoyce Post Number: 96 Registered: 7-2001 |
Management consultants refer to two types of hiring initiatives (affirmative action plans) which can result in increased diversity in a work place. The first, which I think is a bad idea, is to hire/contract with any eligible minority candidate, regardless of whether or not any non-minority candidates are objectively more qualified.(i.e. differential in education or years of experience in the field). A second, and IMHO a much more plausible initiative, requires the hiring/contracting party to establish a set of objective criteria of applicant requirements. In this scenario IF ALL FACTORS ARE EQUAL, and the hiring entity has decided upon and has publicly stated that it is attempting to increase diversity in its hiring/contracting, then the hiring/contracting party would select the minority candidate. I am in favor of this second scenario because once a public policy is announced in favor of increasing diversity all employees/applicants/potential contractory are put on notice that the hiring agency is pursuing this course of action. By making the policy public the whisper campaigns impunging the qualifications of those selected are dulled. All who attempted to obtain the job/contract were aware of the ground rules before applying, and since the candidate who was selected possessed those qualities outlined in the objective criteria, it is clear that the candidate was qualified. In my opinion, this thread should stop personally attacking those who volunteer and should begin a dialogue about what OBJECTIVE CRITERIA has been used in the last ten years when hirings/raises/promotions have been doled out at Village Hall. If implementation of a new hiring initiative resulted in JOB DESCRIPTIONS and PUBLIC POSTINGS for important positions like, Village Administrator or Village Counsel or Parking Authority Commissioner I believe the hiring of new highly qualified individuals would be inevitable. Patrick | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8550 Registered: 4-1997 |
I'd settle for partially qualified people as Village Administrator, Village Counsel and Parking Authority Commissioner. In fact, I'd settle for several floor lamps to fill those positions. If the last decade in South Orange tells us anything, it's that we have underperformers in the most important positions in government. We are the FEMA of New Jersey. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2006 |
FEMA did something, late, and too little, but something. We were not hit by a hurricane. American Idol-not contestants: you are requested to name the hurricane which destroyed the shop rite, beifus, and vose avenue sites and caused governmental paralysis and prevaricationitis. First nomination: Hurricane Wacko jd | ||
| I. Kabish Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 302 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hurricane Conflictomania Heil Calabrese | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3323 Registered: 5-2001 |
Joel - C'mon everyone knows that Hurricane names first start alphabetically with 'A': First we have Hurricane Art, then we have Hurricane Bill, then we have Hurricane Corruption, then we have Hurricane Drew Beifus , then we have Hurricane Edwin..... | ||
| Stevef Citizen Username: Stevef Post Number: 166 Registered: 5-2005  |
They all blow. | ||
| mary032 Citizen Username: Mary032 Post Number: 216 Registered: 8-2001 |
But MHD, hurricanes didn't just start in South Orange. They've been hitting us for the last fifteen years, ever since the Calabrese dictatorship started. Just have a look downtown or better yet look at the "Prescription Counter". Don't they both look like they've been severely hit by hurricanes? And these hurricanes didn't follow an alphabetical order; why would they, they never followed any other order. They had a variety of names: Bill Calabrese, Chris Hartwyck, Ed Matthews, Bill Calabrese, SOPAC, Midas, John Gross, Steve Steglitz, Bill Calabrese, Shoprite 1, Mary Theroux, Bill Calabrese, Shoprite 2 Village Market, Art Taylor, the Quarry, Shoprite 3 New Market, Stacey Jennings, Terriann Moore-Abrams, Gaslight Commons, Alan Rosen, Jessica Way, Nagim Sayid, and Bill Calabrese. Am I forgetting any. Oh yes, and Bill Calabrese. | ||
| mary032 Citizen Username: Mary032 Post Number: 217 Registered: 8-2001 |
I forgot BEIFUS | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2006 |
Mary032: You cited BC four times! You are the first to be diagnosed by DR. D as suffering from the dreaded CDS, Calabrese Derangement Syndrome. Take two aspirin, and post in the morning. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2006 |
Eeks! You posted the NAME seven times. My formerly formidable CDS defenses were weakened upon exposure; therefore I only saw four "he who must not be mentioned" mentioned. Now, immunity gone, and I see seven. jd | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 166 Registered: 5-2005 |
"In fact, I'd settle for several floor lamps to fill those positions" LOL | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1333 Registered: 3-2002 |
Patrick, Thanks for your thoughts. However, to me the key issue here is that at least one member of our BOT seems to want to apply these criteria to a developer of a private project, not a town-funded project. Unless receipt of a PILOT puts one within the mandates of public contracting diversity mandates (in which case I'm fine with it), the BOT really doesn't have a right to try to insist on diversity from every business that does anything in town. I don't think that we can insist that a private party hire a contractor with the "right" employee racial mix any more than we can insist on the right racial mix from every lawn care company, restaurant and shop in town. I have a troubling vision of someone going from door to door at every retail establishment in town trying to ensure the proper racial, gender and sexual orientation balance of the staff! In private industry, we have labor law to deal with discrimination, rather than building code! | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3325 Registered: 5-2001 |
To Susan's point, here is the initial clip where a Trustee questioned the lack of Diversity of the Beifus crew: www.howard-levison.com/bot01232006Jennings_Diversity.wmv BTW - For the record, I asked Howard to house these clips on his site, since he has the space, but my comments are not intended to reflect Howard's own opinions. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3895 Registered: 1-2004 |
Mary- Are you saying you now regret voting for these clowns?  |
