| Author | Message | ||
     SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 204 Registered: 7-2004 |
I also agree with susan1014's sentiments. We can - and need - to progress. And we will. I'm optimistic and do not agree at all that we're heading in the direction of Newark. The larger forces - those that have allowed RE prices to rise, in spite of the doings of Calabrese and the BOT - aren't going away. (Calabrese comes across as such a conceited buffoon, that I suppose it's possible he believes he's had something to do with housing prices going up, but I still find it startling that he says as much. Jayjay is right, SO village govt actions/inactions are keeping prices down relative to their potential). Just because the larger forces have increased home prices and bode well for the long-term future, we can't be complacent. Governance matters. Stand on the border of the US and Mexico in Texas or California and look at the divide. For that matter, drive into Orange or East Orange. East Orange once counted a high number of people in the Social Register as residents. Over the long-term, mid-town direct, proximity to airport, fundamental attractiveness of housing stock and setting are huge factors favoring South Orange's success. But potential residents will always ask: How good are the schools? How high are the taxes? and How safe is my investment? We are able to control the answers to those 3 questions by insisting upon and voting for good management. Failure to act is the greatest risk. I was in the MOL bubble the last election. I was shocked by the results. I will not make that mistake again and neither should you. You need to reach out to like minded friends and neighbors who aren't in the bubble. Make sure they're registered. Make sure they vote. I disagree about Buzz. SO already has buzz whether you want it to or not - some of it is not good. In spite of having similar, actually more affluent, demographics to Maplewood, the perception by some people is that Maplewood is a nicer community. 10 years ago(from what I can gather), there was a fear that both Maplewood and SO were going the way of the other Oranges. Today, people are weighing Maplewood against Millburn, Summit, Short Hills, even. While SO has the disadvantage of having Orange in its name, it has a lot going for it that should make it have as good or better buzz than Maplewood over the next 10 years. South Orange was built as a higher end community than was much of Maplewood. There are more larger, higher end homes. Because SO was such a nice, attractive community already by the time of the building boom of the 1920s, SO was able to insist that developers not string electrical wires in front of homes and instead put them behind, leading to the incredibly graceful and charming gaslighting and the absence of the overhead wire blight. We share the same school district. For many people, that is the end all, be all of suburban life. We should be on an equal footing in that regard. The missing pieces for SO are a reinvigorated Village commercial area, correction of deferred maintenance items in public infrastructure, and handling of public resources in a way that will put us on a long-term fiscal footing that is as sound and affordable as it can be given our limitations with ratables. The current regime keeps making million dollar mistakes. We can't afford those. Nor can we afford to allow this team to make any more large decisions on the future of SO. Valley Street redevelopment needs to be done AFTER a long-term vision and plan are in place. And after the CURRENT messes are cleaned up. NO MORE NEW CONSTRUCTION sites. And, most importantly, AFTER we have restored confidence in the government that is making these decisions and engaging in these negotiations. JTA - I've been inspired by Susan1014's attitude on SOPAC. Boneheaded project. Typifies what's wrong with Calabrese's mindset - no comprehensive plan for how it fits in with the future of the village (ie, parking for it vs. restaurants, shopping that most of us clamor for) or concern of long-term costs (its operating and capital subsidies would easily pay for library and village hall def. maint). But it is here and we're going to be paying for it. The more successful it is, the less it will cost us. I now look forward to spending my cinema dollars here instead of in Millburn and Maplewood. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1787 Registered: 8-2002 |
Nice post SO1969. That said, I think SOPAC is key to downtown -- its just about 3 - 5 years too early. However, I think the larger issue, even than the downtown, are the schools. While I think most of us would agree the elementary schools are very good, and middle schools at least good, Columbia HS is becoming exponentially worse year by year. My 18 year old daughter left CHS a few years ago and went to another school. And I cannot imagine that in 5 - 6 years when my son is due to go to HS -- what it will be like. When I moved to the area about 5 years ago, we spent time and looked at West Orange HS. It was shocking -- and so crossed West Orange off our list. CHS now looks and feels like that school did. Chaos in the halls, profane language everywhere, and a physical plant that is embarrassing. Of course, if Millennium is right and commuters without children will move into the new development, then perhaps that doesn't matter  Pete | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 205 Registered: 7-2004 |
Pete Thanks for the compliment. I'm sorry to hear your distressing report on CHS. I agree that schools are the most important factor in SO's future success. I think they are the key to the vitality and desirability of any suburban community. If my post left another impression in terms of priorities, it is because my focus was on those matters that fall within the purview of the SO Village govt. I also noted that Maplewood is on the same footing with us in regard to schools. Whatever challenges we have at CHS are shared by Maplewood. I confess to not having a sense of what is driving the problems at CHS. I have a vague knowledge of the schools being in a legislatively created box with regard to budgeting. I have no sense of the BOE or the executives within the schools. I have, on occasion, visited the Education thread and chimed in on physical plant matters. I believe absolutely that we can't afford to not invest and maintain the infrastructure. If it is possible to do bonding to bypass the budget caps and make those investments, I'd support it fully. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2006 |
My junior CHS student really likes the school. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2006 |
jayjay: The gaslight commons site was requested by shop-rite, but our local government voted against required authorizations. This was in about '90. I heard shop rite sued, claiming a local drug store owner voted against them, but should not have voted because he/she had a conflict of interest because if shop rite built, there would be competition from the proposed new shop rite's prescription counter. I remember being told there was a settlement, costing us tens of thousands of dollars. I also recall that some residents did not want the third street site to be a supermarket, because they did not want trucks in the neighborhood. But, maybe I am imagining it, and it is all a dream. Does anyone recall this? jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2006 |
In addition, at a social event about four summers ago, I met the director of shop-rite real estate matters, who told me his employer was interested in the lake beifus site, and would buy and build if it could buy from the town a piece of the closest tennis courts. They were told no. I like tennis. I like buying food in town. There are no supermarkets, and many tennis courts. The town made its choice. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 46 Registered: 1-2006 |
In addition, at a social event about four summers ago, I met the director of shop-rite real estate matters, who told me his employer was interested in the lake beifus site, and would buy and build if it could buy from the town a piece of the closest tennis courts, for parking. They were told no. I like tennis. I like buying food in town. There are no supermarkets, and many tennis courts. The town made its choice. jd | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 398 Registered: 6-2005 |
A few years ago, I had spoken to the person in charge of site location for Kings. I was told that they were interested in the Gaslight Commons site when it was a car dealership, but found the town too difficult to deal with, and gave up pursuing it. Joel, I recall the residents in the area being upset about trucks if a Shop Rite located in the old car dealership, becasue trucks couldn't fit under the railroad trestle and would have to use Ridgewood Rd for access. Frankly, I don't know how that would have been different from car carriers. Maybe it was frequency. But if you live next to comercial areas, I would think you have to expect some commercial traffic. I don't recall the suit, but if you're right, it makes me furious since we've still got a VP who is in charge of downtown development but with a clear conflict of interest, both by virtue if having a business in town as well as questionable dealings with a person who owns a substantial number of business properties. | ||
| Veritas Ultimo Citizen Username: Veritas_ultimo Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2005 |
Joel Dranove: The sequence of events was that Donald Warnock signed a contract with Village Supermarkets, the owner/ operator of the Shop Rite in South Orange for the sale of what is now Gaslight Commons. ("Shop Rite" is the name used by stores operated by members of the Wakefern Food Corporation Cooperative.) At the instigation / urging of Trustee C. Hartwyk, the are was quickly spot re-zoned from commercial to multi-unit residential / planned unit development with some units designated to be used to satisfy South Orange's "Mt. Laurel" quota. (By adding the "Mt. Laurel " element, the Village got the Council for Affordable Housing off its back for a while and "bullet-proofed" the re-zoning.) A number of residents of Village Mews were concerned that a (modern)60,000 square foot supermarket across the street would have negative impact on their quality of life (and they may well have been correct although a number of them complain that there is no supermarket nearby). The new store would have had a pharmacy but I do not know if Village President Calabrese voted or abstained on the vote to re-zone the property. Warnock sued the Village on the ground that the "spot re-zoning" was arbitrary and capricious. The matter never got to trial because Donald Warnock suddenly took ill will a rapidly spreading cancer and he tried wrapping up his business matters to save his family from having to deal with extra problems. The result was that he dismissed the suit and sold the property to Brunner Oldsmobile-Cadilac which was able to continue to use the property as a "grandfathered" auto dealership.I don't think that the Village paid anything other than attorney fees (as if that probably wasn't a lot of money). Jayjay: The site person for Kings had to have spoken with South Orange Village officials before Warnock signed the contract with Village Supermarkets because after that time the property was residential with a Mount Laurel element. P.S. The earlier discussion of the incompetence of South Orange Village regarding left "Shop Rite" site left out the fact that after spending 3 million for not all of the required property, the Village did not conduct any environmental inspections of the properties although the contracts provided for same. Because the inspections were not done, the Village waived any recourse against the Sellers. I am not sure what the final cost of the remediation will be, but I do remember a (typically) strange quote (or mis-quote)in The News Record of Village Administrator Gross that the site contamination was a good thing because now the Village could apply for a grant to clean it up! (This is not unlike saying the attack on Pearl Harbor was good because it would give a lot of Americans a chance to visit islands in the Pacific Ocean.) | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 124 Registered: 6-2005 |
Veritas I heard that Calabrese voted against the Shoprite/Wells deal twice and was the deciding vote -both times. My understanding was Calabrese was ordered by a judge to abstain from voting because the new location was going to have a large pharmacy and there seemed to be a major conflict of interest. That order was ignored. If that was the case, wouldn't Calabrese be liable for disregarding a judges order? Shoprite got spooked, didn't want the negative press and bailed out of the deal. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3982 Registered: 1-2004  |
Sean- I've been thinking... IF you really do have something in writing that can prove what you're posting; please do the town you claim to love so much a favor. Bring it to someone in the state that can do something about it. Then take it to one of the 'invesigative' news programs such as 48 hours or Primetime. EXPOSE with proof what people have been sayin for years. I seriously doubt Dave will allow you to post any documents on MOL out of fear of a lawsuit. The Snooze Wrecked is never going to publish anything you have either. The Village is a mess! I know 'things change,' but they usually change for the better. A 'downtown' with as many empty stoes, and barely finished construction projects (for at least the past five years) is not progress. If you have something that will back up what you say, well I don't know. But it just might be what is needed for the state to get invloved in some sort of investigation. Not that I want to see this or do I want to believe it; but there have been many stories in the news over the past few years about 'crooked politcians' from other cmomunities. We don't want to think it can happen in a community like ours, but maybe it has. | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 125 Registered: 6-2005 |
I think the climate in SO (or at least this board) is very suspicious. Everyone seems to think the management in the Village is corrupt (or some). Perhaps it is taking a life of it's own? And maybe I am feeding into it? I don't want to blow it out of proportion. I do have everything that I mentioned. I have spoken to some in SO and offered to produce it. But no one was interested. At the least, I would think the members of the BOT would want to check the minutes of past Shoprite/Well meetings. Look into whether or not Calabrese's vote was discussed (or confirm he did -in fact, vote). If there are dubious activities, I do not believe there is some smoking gun per se. I think what SO residents and merchants would accept is a pattern. Conflicts of interest. Nepotism Business partnerships (locally or abroad). Developers link to political parties. Inappropriate behavior by elected officials. Property flipping to the Village (tax payers) Personal use of municipal property Look at all of the other post. My opinion is there are obvious concerns. It's not about trashing SO but rather ensuring YOUR money is spent in YOUR best interest.... and all deals are fair. Moreover, it is about making SO a wonderful place to live, visit and shop. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8610 Registered: 4-1997  |
If a judge gave an order, that's public record. If Calabrese voted on an item, that's public record. Why would Sean need to back up a public record? Why would we be sued for reprinting a public record? | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 127 Registered: 6-2005 |
Good point Dave. I am sure someone would know how to access these public records and the resources to produce. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2006 |
Public records can be sealed, and no longer public records. But, if anyone has the case name, perhaps someone can search the "public records." jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2006 |
I have a vision, just like the trustees' visions. It is a quail shooting range, atop SOPAC, adjacent to the rock climbing wall. Successful climbers are rewarded with a Dick Cheney mask, and get to hunt quail released over the train station platform. All overseen by SOPD. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 50 Registered: 1-2006 |
I have a vision, just like the trustees' visions. It is a quail shooting range, atop SOPAC, adjacent to the rock climbing wall. Successful climbers are rewarded with a Dick Cheney mask, and get to hunt quail released over the train station platform. jd | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2324 Registered: 5-2004  |
I want some of whatever Joel is having. | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2005 |
I have a question and I am concerned about what I have heard. I have been told that there is a gang issue in Maplewood on weekend evenings? Is this true? And what will our movie theater draw to our town. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8616 Registered: 4-1997 |
Not sure if that's ever been substantiated by the Maplewood police. | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 468 Registered: 1-2004 |
michael brant- Nothing like a good non-sequiter. Sean Flodd- "I have spoken to some in SO and offered to produce it. But no one was interested." Who in SO? And why were they not interested? And why would that stop you from exposing the goings-on? | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 130 Registered: 6-2005 |
crabby, if you look at my first post "Campus Sun - The Truth Be Told" which was in responce to the rumors as to why Campus Sub was no longer open, I mentioned some of this. In fact, I hinted at a deal with THD that was suspicious. I did not want to try to embarrass anyone but shared my feeling that the deal was strange (at best). Once again, why offer more money for a property if the original price failed so obviously? Now, the property (it seems) is (conveniently) in/near a major "redevelopement zone". Scenario: "Hey, we want you to make a deal with this bank (who knows what the bank was offering and to whom). You will take possession of an abandoned property... and eyesore (with rumored EPA issues). In return, we will make sure you are positioned to gain tax relief by reassigning your area. As well, we will build an assortment of housing around your business". Take this problem off our hands and we will "wash" yours. Why else would someone want to relocate one of the longest established businesses in SO that had an already established "brand"? It was obviously not for additional space and the original location was ideal. Too many things do not add up and I think it smells. I do not care to mention anyone's name yet. I am not sure it would be fair just yet. I do know that no one has disputed we met AT VILLAGE HALL -on more than one occasion. The intial meeting was arranged by his/her assistant. That I did make an offer (in writing) AT ASKING PRICE. Well BEFORE the THD deal was entertained. I was told notified IN WRITING that the town wanted to pursue a local realtor. I never heard of anything again until a deal was announced. Many BOT members read these posts and enagage in discussion yet no one is involed or cares to be. The silence is strange. | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 204 Registered: 2-2005  |
A bit of free sooth for Mr. Flood: You may want to be rather a tad careful about making veiled accusations about Tony Wonski, the owner of THD, as he is an occasional MOL lurker. Your own enterprise, even at its peak, never approached the artistry or craftsmanship of the THD, yet at no time did Ronny and Jack (the previous THD proprietors) ever deride either your product or your business methods or ethics; neither has Mr. Wonski. He has, after a fashion, kept Villagers updated by creating his THD website, an effort you have not seen fit to make. You'd be well-advised to either (A) quietly find an appropriate space and open your next opus, or (2) quietly go away. Either way, your defensive stances, online whining, and barely-disguised allegations of misdoings have gotten rather old, even by Eternal standards. Go in peace, and get thee to a better realtor. --The Oracle of MOL | ||
| User58 Citizen Username: User58 Post Number: 400 Registered: 8-2004 |
Oracle well said I am also tired of hearing this guys BS about his sandwich shop. And Mr. Flood as a business owner why are you bad mouthing THD owner. He bought the THD and bought Midas total investment roughly 1.5 million...now worth 2.5 million? And I hear he is renting to the bank for $10,000 a month. Sound like a smart guy to me. I wish I were that smart. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 853 Registered: 7-2004  |
"Your own enterprise, even at its peak, never approached the artistry or craftsmanship of the THD" Yes, and his business never went bankrupt, never sold out it's long heritage to yet another bank, and never moved locations with a promise to be open by the spring (not this past spring, the one before that). So Oracle, if that is your real MOL handle, before you go bashing a competant business owner, please make sure you know what you are talking about. And if Mr Wanski is reading this, let me thank him for picking up the business out of the trash and dusting it off. However, I didn't appreciate you throwing the business back in the garbage when you saw the $$$ from the bank. And Oracle, quietly or not, go away. | ||
| Erin Cartman Citizen Username: Carnac Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2005 |
I think Oracle and User know exactly what they are talking about. THD at its peak and Campus Sub at their peak (which would NOT have been under Mr. Flood's ownership) were uncomparable. One would be better to compare what ever comes from the new THD to Campus Sub now. And Oracle I think you hit the nail on the head! Does Mr. Flood even have a realtor?!?!? Looking back at some of the posts it seems he is doing this on his own. That would be a very hard way to find a home for Campus Sub in SO -- unless you were just doing it half heartedly. | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 131 Registered: 6-2005 |
It astonishes me that the real story is being lost by individuals that want to take personal barbs instead of looking at the obvious. If no one sees this (especially in light of the "conflict of interest", nepotism, secret dealings posts), then stop wondering why downtown is squandering and take your heads out of the sand. I won't be pulled into that stuff. Thanks for your intellect Mayor Mc. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8619 Registered: 4-1997 |
Most of us see the big picture, Sean. Not to worry. | ||
| Sitoyan Citizen Username: Sitoyan Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2004 |
Can someone pleeeeeeeeease, pretty pleeeeeeease tell me where was the Campus Sub? and when did it close? Pretty pleeeeeease | ||
| SoxHater2090 Citizen Username: Soxhater2090 Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2005 |
Sitoyan, Campus Sub used to be located on Irvington Avenue. I hear he lost his lease due to non-compliance with the Landlord's rules about deliveries in the back parking lot... so, I guess he was evicted. | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 205 Registered: 2-2005 |
Mr. Ross, I apologize for indulging in thread drift, spurred though I was by the feeble excuses and personal aspersions offered by the self-righteous Mr. Flood. I do indeed see your "big picture", Mr. Ross, but I'll thank Mr. McCheese not to allow his own bilious rage at everything BOT to plunge him deep into the realm of fiduciary fiction regarding the THD, to wit: Bankruptcy (be it Chapter 11 or otherwise) is a legally recorded condition, easily verified by referral to a duly-sanctioned register of such situations. Check, and you'll find neither business nor personal bankruptcies ever filed by either the THD or its recent operators. Such falsehoods as yours will not stand, Mr. Mayor, and quite apart from your opinions as to the probity of Mr. Calabrese et al, I accuse you of -- at the very least -- heinous (perhaps even libellous?) mischaracterization of Mr. Wonski and his THD predecessors. Again, if I approach this subject here, it will be on a thread devoted to the "small picture", where one may compare the small, timid shadow cast by Mr. Flood with the longer, braver ones of Tony, Ronny, and Jack. Long live THD, and, BTW, continued good luck to whatever "successful" other businesses Mr. Flood may operate. Go in peace. --The Oracle of MOL | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1746 Registered: 12-2003  |
Sean: Either sue the town, or get a new real estate agent, or both. But come on. In the time you've been looking for a spot, a half dozen food places (INCLUDING TWO SUB RESTAURANTS!) have opened or made plans to open. I'm not sure exactly what you're waiting for, but it seems pretty clear it's never going to come along. If there is a plot against you, start naming names so that we can join you with our pitchforks and torches. Otherwise, for crying out loud, either rent one of the many open storefronts in town or move on. You're making sandwiches, not splitting the atom. | ||
| Lucy Supporter Username: Lucy Post Number: 2838 Registered: 5-2005  |
Sean I along with others know your family and enjoyed your subs. There is no competition between the sub and Sloppy Joe they are to different. We miss you and I will wait in line if the right location comes your way. I really miss your Dad he was so proud of his family. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 854 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hey SODA, maybe you should ask Mr. Wonski how he was able to purchase the building that the THD used to reside in so cheaply. ($725,000) He will tell you that is was in bankruptcy court. Look it up. If it is public record it will be there for all to see. In fact, ask the owner of the Maplewood Tratoria, he placed a bid on it as well. So, before you start with your veiled accusations, please, please know what you are talking about. Ronny and Jack are great people, and I would never say a bad thing about either one of them. Mr. Wonski, while being a very nice person, does not know how to run a deli. Also, trying to compare the THD with Campus Sub Shop is like trying to compare apples and oranges. They are both in the sandwich business, but operated in much different ways, and go after different customer bases. Also, just so you know what you are talking about, the "good" years for the THD were in the 1960's. Business slowed after then until finally falling apart in the late 1990s. So, to even say that the THD was a thriving business in SO before MR. Wonski bought the place is a stretch. And what do I accuse you of, well, John Goodman said it best: "Your out of your element Donny" | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3994 Registered: 1-2004 |
Oracle- Well I hate to tell you your 'facts' about the THD aren't 100% correct either. | ||
| The Man Citizen Username: Bumboklaat Post Number: 148 Registered: 2-2005  |
The Oracle/SODA molests collies. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3995 Registered: 1-2004 |
Sean- I'm someone who is fed up with the on going mess in our town. I don't know why you are saying nobody took you up on your offer to see the 'proof.' ***I*** posted I'd like to see what you have. So, are you going to show it to me? If you now say you can't or you won't, well then my whole opinion of you will go South real fast. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8632 Registered: 4-1997 |
We need an Iron Chef Sandwich face-off. | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 132 Registered: 6-2005 |
Aunt, my comment was directed at Village officials. I would be happy to share with you -privately. Private Message me and I will meet you for a cup of coffee. CMonty, no need for a NEW realtor. NONE of the locations mentioned were ever "For Sale/Lease" with the exception of two (one came with "strings" attached and both are asking money that SO has never seen.... not even close). Information listed on MLS is confidential so I haven't been able to go into details. For the right place, I will split the Atom. FOR THE LAST TIME, I am in no hurry and can afford to find a FAIR deal. The real issue is mismanagement of the public's money and the appearance of dubious activity -not just this instance but many others (check other posts). The title of this thread is not about me procuring a location. All I'm doing is adding my personal experience. I'm asking you to expand your thought process a little. Also, let me get this right... sue the town so the tax payers have to foot the bill? Aren't your dollars being gobbled up by enough mismanagement? BTW, I also looked into the THD. It was published in the newspaper -under the Sherriff's Auction. The auction was pushed off (I believe) twice because a private deal (with THD current owner) was in the works and close. Finally, I was close with Jack et al at the THD we got along very well. My gripe is not with Tony but how the town handled a particular situation. My "scenario" was in jest -"tongue and cheek". I genuinely wish him the best of luck. I've seen some drawings of what he plans, it's good for business and good for SO. Dave, the Iron Chef Face Off idea was a riot! | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 208 Registered: 2-2005 |
Way to back off, there, Sean. Go in peace. --The Oracle of MOL |
