| Author | Message | ||
     Fishface Citizen Username: Fishface Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2006  |
Hi! We're in NYC and looking to move to the M/SO, Millburn area in the next few months. We've started getting more listings of houses near the University; I'm wondering how it is along the lines of town/gown relations. Do many students live in houses/apts near campus; is it especially noisy? I don't know much about Seton Hall...I'm trying to get used to the search function and am looking there, but any info is appreciated!! | ||
| Ace789nj Citizen Username: Ace789nj Post Number: 257 Registered: 2-2005  |
open can, stand back I used to live on wilden which runs along the campus' south side, 2 houses away fron their wilden gate. over the years it began to get worse, I remember they (students) had the house directly across from us, it was terrible, sometimes there would be parties where more than a 100 kids hung outside-well into the AM. Many other folks in town will tell you the same. The university has taken steps to curtail the mayhem, you'll be briefed on that soon. Most of the problem students can be "enlightened" if they're made to understand why a taxpaying resident would be so upset at a kid who could care less about the community 'cause they didn't grow up here, aren't going to stay here & when they go back home they'll forget this place in a heartbeat so why should they care if they wreak havoc while they're here. Good luck in your quest for a home, just remember if you encounter a "problem house" take steps to set it straight with the students, we'd all like to be partying but some of us have responsibilities and once they see where you're coming from they should at the very least be more considerate towards you & your home. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1496 Registered: 2-2005  |
We live two blocks from campus and some nights can be fairly noisy because of student foot traffic... If noise or the occasional beer can in your yard is an issue for you, my suggestion would be to look at houses on the north side of South Orange Ave. (Grove Park/Montrose). | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 193 Registered: 1-2006  |
Fishface, Well chosen avetar. I like it. I live close enough to Seton Hall that students park in front of my house. The College clears my walk on one side when it snows. It's the Montrose section, so there aren't any College Student Houses partying all night. I think that's because of house prices. There are two for sale that I walk my dog past. One is around 1.5 million. The other is by appointment only and since I'm only nosey enough to go to an open house, I don't know what they're asking. I actually feel like student foot traffic makes it unlikely that anyone would try to break into my house during the day. But there is usually some garbage left on the curb. It's a little more like a town house than the suburbs, so you might find it an easy transition from NYC. Welcome, and happy hunting. Try saying,"Go Pirates!" If you don't like that, don't buy near Seton Hall. J.B. | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3161 Registered: 11-2001  |
 Go Pirates.... | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4031 Registered: 1-2004  |
There are a few houses for sale down by Marshall School; one is on Warren Court, a street that runs from South Orange Ave (Seton Hall is across the street) to the school. The distance from SH to Marshall is about one City block. You are far enough from the college students to not have to worry about their trash, noise, parking in front of your house etc. Yet, you are close enough to walk to SH, Grove Park, even the Village (though some of the college students will disagree on this one). I think there is a Jitney stop close by as well. I don't know what the houses are selling for, but I'm guessing somewhere between $400,000 and $500,000. | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 1053 Registered: 3-2002 |
JTA, I bet the prices are significantly higher - just a guess. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1756 Registered: 12-2003  |
There are 4 houses for sale within a block or block and a half of marshall right now. Two are 525k, one is $1M, one is $1.4M. | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 710 Registered: 8-2004  |
I live a few blocks away from SHU (near the baseball fields). My street is quiet, except for the occasional party from my student neighbors across the street. We've had some issues (see /discus/messages/3133/90315.html?1130622292), but they've been quiet for the last few months. They know if I hear party noise at 3am, I'm calling the cops. Good luck, and hope to see you soon! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4037 Registered: 1-2004 |
doul and county Do you happen to know how much the one on Warren is? It's the fifth or so house down from Marshall. | ||
| Keywest Citizen Username: Keywest Post Number: 146 Registered: 2-2004  |
We live about 4 blocks up from the to Seton Hall, in the Tuxedo Park section and there has never been a problem. No noise, traffic, parties.... ever. And we love it hear, mostly because it is so quiet. I do not know about houses closer to or on the border of SHU, but we love it here. | ||
| Flying_char Citizen Username: Flying_char Post Number: 107 Registered: 8-2005 |
I am on a street with a lot of S.H students and I never hear them. The only bad thing is that I don't get to know my neighbours, because they don't really come out to do yard work etc. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3163 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think it depends greatly on whether or not there are houses inhabited by students on your block, and the behavior of those particular students. We have seen concerns raised by residents in this situation, although I have no idea if it is a universal problem on streets where students live. (I would expect and hope not.) Being near the campus itself shouldn't be inherently problematic, especially since the edges of the campus are mostly taken up with playing fields, parking garages and the like, while most of the residence halls seem to be more central (or nearer South Orange Avenue) from what I've observed as a commuter student there. | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3164 Registered: 11-2001 |
One post for you and one for me.  | ||
| Taurus5208 Citizen Username: Taurus5208 Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2004 |
I have lived in two apartments in SO, both in the vicinity of Seton Hall, and if you don't appreciate noise and parties and being woken up in the middle of the night, consider moving farther away from the university. On multiple occasions (in both apartments) I have been woken up in the middle of the night due to drunken parties, wrestling matches, and intolerable noise. On almost all occasions I have spoken to the my noisy neighbors personally instead of calling the cops and they have apologized and quieted down, but I still had to get out of bed and dressed at 3 and 4 am to walk next door to have a conversation with them. I'm sure this all depends on how close you are to the campus and whom else lives on your street but like I said, I'm 2 for 2 in SO at varying distances from the campus and have made certian that my impending move will not be anywhere near students. | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 94 Registered: 9-2005  |
We've lived in Montrose for 12 years - rarely experienced noise problems with students. You don't want to live in a house the borders the west side of Seton Hall campus property. You will find homes that were generally better constucted on the north side of South Orange Avenue. | ||
| Richard Citizen Username: Rikky Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2005 |
why would anyone look to move for the first time around seton hall? the ghetto that is vailsburg is a-knockin on your door. in 15 years the entire area will be overrun with the crack heads that wander downtown vailsburg just like what happened to east orange. for those who don't know east orange was THE place to live in the 50's. now you know why montrose has so many homes for sale and guess what? they aren't selling. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 318 Registered: 2-2005 |
Its pretty rough between 5pm Thursday thru Sunday evening. But the summers are nice. I just don't get why code violations apply to tax paying residents, but student rentals seem to have their own set of rules. Slow and non enforcement. Open garbage cans, bags, and litter remain all seven days at the curbs, cars block the sidewalk in the driveways, and garbage bags as window treatments. A borded up empty property would be more appealing as a nieghbor. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2574 Registered: 4-2002 |
Richard: I heard the same BS 15 and 20 years ago. Montrose is now one of the most desirable areas in S. Orange. I also know many people who live near the university. It would seem the only complaint that differs from any other neighborhood would be the partying at certain homes. Even with the partying, I know plenty of people who have said they still love the area. O & G: The code violations do apply to those propertyowners too. They just pay the fines (eitehr directly or by passing on to the students). Student housing is profitable to those landlords and it would seem that they just do not care about the neighbors. | ||
| Richard Citizen Username: Rikky Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2005 |
>>I heard the same BS 15 and 20 years ago rosner, surely you jest? i personally know 11 families that have used the real estate bubble to get out while values peak in the last 18 months. the area will inevitably go down hill as crime increases (as it has been) and the creep of vailsburg moves in. i've noticed people like you and others on here can't see the forest for the trees and choose to delude yourselves into thinking nothing has changed. sorry but reality paints a different picture. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2578 Registered: 4-2002 |
Fichard: The reality is that houses in Montrose were the best bargains in S. Orange in the 80's and into the early 90's because of the perception painted by some. I am sorry I did not buy a house in Montrose because of a short-sighted realtor who made similar comments to yours. Crime in the village is down over the past ten years and this past year marks the first increase - and that increase is almost exactly tied to the increase in thefts of Xenon headlights. I personally know many people who live west of ridgewood road who have sold to take advantage of the real estate bubble. Do you have any facts to back up anything you say other than you know 11 people who sold? Reality might paint a different picture, but cleary you have no idea what seperates reality from fiction. | ||
| AGD4 Citizen Username: Agd4 Post Number: 55 Registered: 2-2003 |
Fishface, You should disregard the bitter and negative remarks noted by a few of the posters above. They clearly do not live in the area of town you are referring to. Contrary to their prediction of oncoming blight, I have seen only projects and work on homes that would indicate the opposite. People are putting tons of money into restoring and preserving the excellent housing stock in our neighborhood. I also really don't know why anyone would say our neighborhood is strewn with trash. Take a drive through (map on our website) and see what you think. People care a lot about their properties and they are well maintained. Our town provides trash collection twice a week. The Montrose Park Historic District Association (MPHDA) is one of the most desirable neigbhorhoods in South Orange. In fact, some of the highest priced sales in South Orange for both 2004 and 2005 were in Montrose. I have lived here for 12 years and have only seen very positive changes in the neighborhood. My own house has almost quadrupled in value. Two realtors who happen to live in Montrose, have put together a website that summarizes recent listings that have sold or are on the market. You may want to check it out: http://www.montrosemailbag.com/index.php?pageId=292139 Feel free to check out the historic district website www.MontroseParkSONJ.org it includes a map of the historic district as well as a complete inventory of all properties within the historic district boundaries. The inventory describes the characteristics of each property and why it either contributes (or doesn't contribute) to the historic district. Our website also describes the many lectures and activities which our organization sponsors. Also, our 11th Montrose in May Historic House Tour will take place on Saturday May 20th from 11am to 4pm and would also give you an excellent inside view of the neighborhood. With nearly 300 members our organization is one of the strongest and cohesive in South Orange. When my husband and I, and our children, first moved to Montrose 12 years ago, there were a few "fraternity" style houses in the historic district. At this time, MPHDA and the Village have worked hard to rid the neighborhood of most group living situations. I would venture to guess that the majority of student housing that now exists in residential areas is on South Orange Avenue and Ward Place. There are a few apartment buildings at the end of Turrell Avenue and I have no idea whether any students live in those apartments. You could inquire at Seton Hall to see if they have any info on student housing that exists outside the campus. In addition, you may want to take a look at homes in Tuxedo Park which is adjacent to Montrose Park and is the area of South Orange between Seton Hall and Vailsburg, Newark. Tuxedo Park has an excellent selection of Arts & Crafts and Bungalow style homes and has a very strong and active Neighborhood Association. They are looking to become an historic district too. My prediction is that Tuxedo Park is the next hot neighborhood to buy in! I'd be happy to put you in touch with one of their association members. Sincerely, Amy Dahn President, Montrose Park Historic District Association | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 224 Registered: 1-2006 |
Nuff said. | ||
| Sean Citizen Username: Midwestboy Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2005 |
The Montrose area is one of the best housing values in the country. Find me a prettier, better groomed street than Turrell, Montrose or Hartford Rd. 1/2 hour train ride away from NYC at these prices. Oh, and we never hear (or see) Seton Hall students or the effects of them on my street, other than the occasional jogger. | ||
| Richard Citizen Username: Rikky Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2005 |
yeah right mark. the families i speak of that have moved have kids and no longer find the area safe. try reading some other threads here about the continual increase in crime in south orange, particularly on 'that' side of town. even so, you and the other everything is puppy dogs and sunshine will just attribute it to a series of unfortunate events. sean, best housing values in the country? LOL!!! they said the same about east orange and jamaica estates in queens, NY not too long ago. hey it's your life so please sit back and listen to the band while the titanic sinks. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 94 Registered: 1-2006 |
tsk, tsk, tsk. Richard must be a real estate broker in Millburn. Or burned in love by someone in Montrose. "That side of town" is where I live, and I heard that crap fifteen years ago. Great neighborhood, where every adult is a top achiever, all kids excel in school, and no one is a meanie real estate block-buster. jd | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8760 Registered: 4-1997  |
no doubt | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2588 Registered: 4-2002 |
Richard: Maybe you can back up anything you say with some facts. The crime statistics have shown a decrease in crime over 5, 10 and 15 years in all areas of the village including Montrose. The increase in housing values in the Montrose area has been greater than any other area in South Orange if not all of New Jersey. I know when we first moved here in Dec. '85 we could have had our choice of homes in Montrose for what we spent for a small house to be "above Wyoming Ave". All the realtors were preaching the same type of bs you are trying to push. Turns out they were wrong then, just like you are wrong now. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2378 Registered: 5-2004  |
Richard, are you seriously comparing East Orange and Jamaica Estates? Seriously? | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1252 Registered: 4-2004  |
Montrose and Tuxedo Park don't bear the brunt of University coexistence as much as the University Heights area- Irvington Ave. to South Orange Ave., and Prospect St. east to the campus. Here is where most of the noise issues and other quality-of-life complaints originate. Some of the streets just outside this region (Academy, Tichenor, Third) also have student houses that rub up against residents. I don't see any of these areas hurting for home sales, but I would check the area I described for active student houses, especially if I had small children. | ||
| SoxHater2090 Citizen Username: Soxhater2090 Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2005  |
MRosner: "Crime in the village is down over the past ten years and this past year marks the first increase - and that increase is almost exactly tied to the increase in thefts of Xenon headlights." I guess it is too bad that the nice people who stole the headlights are messing up your crime statistics. This is specious thinking. Crime is still up, by your admission. Hiding behind a "wave" of xenon headlight theft does not sound like a proactive viewpoint from a leader in our community. If people were breaking into homes stealing plasma TV's, would you say crime is the same, except people just own more plasma TV's, so that's why crime is up? I don't think so. I am hopeful you did not really mean what you said. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2589 Registered: 4-2002 |
Soxhater: Richard has been trying to make a case that crime has consistently been on the rise, especially in the Montrose area - which is just not true. The police chief has been working with a task force (county) to try and deal with the Xenon headlight issue which is a problem almost everwhere in the northeast. I do not think I was hiding, especially since I announced in public that crime had increased. I also think most people would want to know what types of crime led to the increase. I think breaking into a home is a lot more serious than popping headlights out of a car. | ||
| SoxHater2090 Citizen Username: Soxhater2090 Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2005 |
MRSONER: I agree with you, of course, that breaking into a house is much more serious than popping headlights out of a car. That said, doesn't change the fact that both are crimes involving theft of things that are expensive. I did not address anything to Richard, because he seems to be a bitter individual, who wants to belittle our Town, which I believe is a great place to live (which, I think, was the original point of this thread). However, I do think it is a bit cavalier on your part to say the crime that is up is only due to headlights. Who cares? It is still up, and we should not accept that. I am sure you are familiar w/ the "broken window" theory ... to me, the xenon headlights are just a more expensive example of that. Not to give Richard any credibility, but, if we accept ANY increase in crime, we are foolish, and people will not want to live in our Town. In fact, if crime does not DECREASE, I would say we are not doing our jobs- in any business, successful companies strive to improve, not accept the status quo. | ||
| SoxHater2090 Citizen Username: Soxhater2090 Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2005 |
Fishface If nothing else, I hope you can see that there are certainly very strong feelings about South Orange, which ought to tell you a lot about living here. Good luck with your house search, and I am sure we all would say, despite our differences of opinion, that SO is a great place to live and bring up a family! | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8763 Registered: 4-1997 |
The Broken Window theory probably doesn't apply because car headlights are repaired quickly. The theory involves long-term uncorrected eyesoars. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6786 Registered: 5-2001  |
What I find really funny is that there is an epidemic of xenon light thefts in the Short Hills Kings parking lot. Ask the employees. We were there one beautiful Sunday afternoon when two cars got hit within 5 minutes. So, the moral of the story is: don't move to Short Hills! It's crime-ridden. As for Montrose, I hear that the crackheads are pooling their massive savings to buy one of the million dollar homes in the area. | ||
| Stephanie Nooney Citizen Username: Stephanie_n Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2006 |
I grew up on Ward Place, right across the street from SHU. My father still lives there. Now that my husband and I bought a house in Maplewood, we spend more time there than I have in the past 10 years. The area has its share of crime. The house was broken into twice - once in the late 70s and again in the mid 80s. I haven't seen anything recently that would indicate to me a noticable increase in crime. The only annoying thing is that there is no parking on the streets adjacent to his house. I think they posted No Parking signs on a lot of the streets immediately outside the university - probably to keep students from parking in order to help combat some of the noise complaints. Too bad it kind of screws things up for anybody else who happens to have visitors and their driveways are full! | ||
| SoxHater2090 Citizen Username: Soxhater2090 Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2005 |
Dave- I think the Broken Window Theory is not literal- I believe the idea is that if the broken windows do not get repaired, and people perceive that others do not care, not only will this continue to happen, but also, it's ok to vandalize, graffiti, burn down, and generally destroy/ abandon property. (Because there are no consequences, or there is a general malaise/acceptance of the Broken Windows, that it is "no big deal" to break the windows in thefirst place, causing a cycle of destruction). My point about the comparison of the two is that if we accept the stolen headlights as "not a big deal", then the problem will continue or worsen. Or, even worse, people will think there is an acceptance of crime, and they will pursue other, more significant crime. Are you supporting MRosner's position that this kind of crime should just be a footnote to the crime statistics because it is "only" taking headlights? (IE) "No big deal"- like the Broken Windows. BTW, have you ever had your headlights stolen? It's quite annoying and expensive. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8766 Registered: 4-1997 |
Thieves are after the power supply to the lights rather than the lights themselves. The solution is to make the power supply become unusable if the car's key isn't used to remove them. I keep the car in the garage and no problems so far. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 96 Registered: 1-2006 |
What types of sox do you hate? Wool, anklets, nylon, blends, patterns, I don't get why you would hate sox. Do you wear sox at all? jd |
