| Author | Message | ||
     SoxHater2090 Citizen Username: Soxhater2090 Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2005  |
jd You're kidding, right? | ||
| Diastole Citizen Username: Diastole Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2005  |
Fishface, I live on Warren Court right now, and I don't feel threatened or intimidated at all. Even at night. Maybe I'm naive. There is some noise (from SHU students?) once in a while here, but normally it's very lovely and quiet. Welcome to MOL, and I hope you won't let a few Chicken Littles scare you off. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 320 Registered: 2-2005 |
Anyone from Riggs Pl, Ward Pl, or an apartment want to chime in. I am in an apartment building, and its good some semesters and others it is awful...this semester seems to be Okay....so far so good. | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2005  |
Richard; We bought our house in Montrose 12 years ago and we spent 7-8 months looking at 80-90 homes in SO & Mapleweood. We saw the house we ended up buying very early in the process but was concerned for all the reasons you stated. After checking with the SOPD concerning crime statistics I found there was NO correlation between a higher incident of crime and the local proximity of the SO/Newark border. I was looking for one since I felt this was either the greatest deal of the century or we were buying into the abyss. We bought and it was the best financial move we ever made - remember there is an invisible wall around SO & Maplewood that distingishes from Newark & EO and that is the taxes. You have to make some serious cash these days to afford the mortgage, upkeep and taxes. And since the real estate values in this community have skyrocketed over the last decade this will make it harder for your prediction to be realized. Just sounds like your envious of those that took the chance as your short sighted thinking allowed you to miss the boat. It was that exact perception that allowed many of us to pay 1/4 of what houses in our neighborhoods are now selling for in a little over a decade later. Our new neighbors are better educated, more affluent, politically progressive and smart enough to know not to get caught up in a 'false perception', I guess PT Barnum was right. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2595 Registered: 4-2002 |
Politicalmon: Thanks for confirming what I was saying to Richard. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3407 Registered: 5-2001  |
Of course, the question will now be - what happens to the area when your TAXES also go up 4x after the reval? | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 322 Registered: 2-2005 |
You seriously think there is no corralation between crime and being close to Newark, Irvington, Orange, and East Orange? When you called the police did you get the official over the phone statement about local crime, or did you try asking one of the cops off the record? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 587 Registered: 4-2005  |
I'm gonna have to agree with O & G on this one. I think the great work of SOPD is the reason we don't see "more crime". It's definitely not that our geographic location doesn't make us a prime target for high crime rate. | ||
| Josh Holtz Citizen Username: Jholtz Post Number: 292 Registered: 4-2004 |
Fishface: We moved to the Montrose section around two years ago. Since then we have invested a great deal of time and resources restoring our house to what it once was. This neighborhood is a special one, due to its devoted residents, beautiful homes and close proximity to the trains and town. I, personally, have lived all over Essex County but nothing has compared to Montrose. Crime - there is crime all over Essex County - simply put. Burgulars and thieves will go where the money is - so SO/M, Montclair, M/SH, along with all of the other towns, fall victim to them. Good luck with your house hunt. If you choose to buy in Montrose you won't be disappointed. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2603 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sheena: It seems the police are pretty busy dealing with SHU students partying off-campus. Imagine how much better they could do if SHU dealt with the problem students more effectively. As you know, the parties SHU students have off-campus have been the number one complaint at public safety meetings. Second has been cars that speed. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10835 Registered: 5-2001 |
SHU should have a campus police force like most other similar schools. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2423 Registered: 5-2004  |
Here we go again... | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3033 Registered: 9-2003 |
Little grumpy today Mark? Not exactly your most productive post... and it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. Sheena's a great Prez. and has made more of an effort to connect with the villagers and their issues than any of her predecessors. It wasn't nice to take a swipe at her for the administration's short-commings. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 294 Registered: 7-2005  |
Who just said montrose is close to SHU? It's not...they police that "historic" neighborhood | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3036 Registered: 9-2003 |
Technically, SHU is within the Montrose Historic District - they hold student housing (Turrell Manor), an office (Division of Univeristy Affairs) and a seminary (St. Andrews). | ||
| Richard Citizen Username: Rikky Post Number: 76 Registered: 7-2005 |
doesn't surprise me that many of you are drinking from the same punch bowl. but please feel free to try and denigrate me and my viewpoint. after all you all live here and have invested in your houses and the community so why not wear your bias on your sleeve? mark do you really think all of the crime and would be crime is reported? my friend who lives on grove had his house broken into and the TV and stereo system stolen while he was on the 3rd floor! enough is enough. while you still have 'successful' folks living in those big houses the trend is moving towards outflux. to say the houses have increased in value is disingenuous as all boats have risen in the housing market the past decade. the bottom line is the nasty area is a stone's throw away and more of 'them' are wandering through. my wife and i used to walk around that neighborhood until we began seeing more and more unsavory characters wandering the streets. sorry but that doesn't show up in your crime statistics. the area tends to be quiet when walking about so as you can imagine this is worrisome to my wife who used to walk there alone but refuses to anymore in regards to me being jealous about not buying there sooner? now that's good for a laugh. sorry to burst your bubble but i own 3 houses and a business but that's irrelevant as this isn't a financial discussion but a quality of life in that area one. | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 175 Registered: 4-2005 |
So since SHU party students are the #1 complaint at public safety meetings...are they the #1 thing that occupies SOPD's time? I would say that it seems that there is no way that SHU off-campus parties are the largest problem SOPD faces. "It seems" isn't a fact, so maybe we can get a more educated answer from someone who has the facts. I'd personally prefer to be woken up in the middle of the night (which, believe it or not, does actually happen to me because I live and work with freshmen) than to know that there actually are human beings who come to SO with the intent to burglarize homes, rob pedestrians, steal headlights, or maybe even cars, vandalize your property ... and do it successfully! It has nothing to do with SO being a bad place, with bad people who don't care about others and are obviously not observant of the law, because that isn't true. It's simply the proximity and SOPD does a good job with the challenges that it presents to them | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3041 Registered: 9-2003 |
Kristen - An "it seems" from Mark is good enough for me. And, I'd personally prefer neither of your options, thank you. There used to be a frat house two doors down from me... but a reasonably quiet house compared to the off-campus houses today. My house was robbed 20 years ago and my son's car was stolen from our driveway about 6 years ago. So, I've experienced both sides of your equation. I know the VLT has tried to address the concerns of those who live near off-campus housing.. but I understand you have not been as successful as you'd like. The administration should back you up in some measure. Are errant house residents currently brought before any disciplinary board? | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 721 Registered: 8-2004  |
"Are errant house residents currently brought before any disciplinary board?" At least in my situation, no. I called the Dean of Discipline's office three times about my SHU student neighbors and nothing happened. The faculty advisor to the VLC never returned my calls. Kristen and Sheena were a little helpful (and very nice), but I'm dreading the springtime and the party season. | ||
| Josh Holtz Citizen Username: Jholtz Post Number: 296 Registered: 4-2004 |
Richard: Could I happen to be one of those "unsavory" characters your wife saw walking around the Montrose District? Please describe them if you will so I can get a clearer picture of who is penetrating our neighborhood. And I would like to know how do you know that "more of "them" are wandering through." I have seen other posts by you and your disdain for South Orange, as a whole, is evident. Just curious - do you still live in town - and if so why? | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 177 Registered: 4-2005 |
As discussed before, the school doesn't find out about off campus incidents through magic...SHU and SOPD work together. The school knows about those who have police reports and those students then proceed to go through our judicial process. The VLC has been successful and the administration does back us up. Where do you think the funding comes for our projects? How do you think we even get approval for projects? It's from the admin. SoOrLady- Um, it is quite obvious that no one would prefer to deal with both of those situations, but which one is a bigger threat to your life and standard of living? I'm going to have to say the noise doesn't threaten my life and property as much as these criminals do. In any case, the VLC has not dissipated and will still be functioning in the spring. I encourage you all to be proactive (Acting in advance to deal with an expected difficulty; anticipatory) rather than reactive when it is too late. As most of you have seen patterns in particular areas, lets work together to create solutions and not problems. More to come on this...  | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 722 Registered: 8-2004 |
Kristen: in the spirit of being proactive, will a VLC representative please remind my SHU student neighbors that loud parties at 3am are not tolerated. In the past they haven't listened to me or the cops who have visited several times. If you need the address again, please PL me. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1475 Registered: 3-2003 |
composerjohn - Do you happen to know whether the police have made any arrests for serving alcohol to minors at the house in question? Anyone know if any arrests have been made for serving alcohol to minors when police have been called to a college rental? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2610 Registered: 4-2002 |
Kristen: Do tell everyone how much more proactive neighbors can be to stop the off-campus partying? We have had meetings, the police have met with students and the administration. Summons have been given out. They have begged, pleaded and screamed. Nothing has stopped the problem. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 590 Registered: 4-2005 |
Composerjohn, I still have the address and I'll go give them a visit on Monday for a friendly reminder. I was unaware that problems started occuring again. Thanks for the heads up. | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 723 Registered: 8-2004 |
Sheena - no recent issues. As Kristen suggested, I'm simply being proactive about the problem. Thanks! | ||
| Guitar Dad Citizen Username: Guitardad Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2006  |
I have to chime in on this one. Although it's been a relatively quiet winter, I am dreading the start of the spring party season on Riggs Place -- open windows make it a lot tougher. I was excited about the momentum that began last year, when my neighbors and I declared that we had had enough, only to find that the cancelled town meeting took the wind out our sails.  | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 268 Registered: 1-2006  |
Guitar dad and Composerjohn? Is the SHU housing only effecting musicians? I'm looking forward to a song. Perhaps a Blues song. J.B. | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 728 Registered: 8-2004 |
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| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 273 Registered: 1-2006 |
I woke up this mornin' And I heard a disturbin' sound. I Saiyed I woke up this mornin' And I heard a disturbin' sound/ It was some drunk Seton Hall Students, yeeeah messin' up my town. I got no food on the table, and noo sho-oes on my feet. I Saiyed, I got no food on the table and no shoes ah-on my feet. The Seton Hall students are taking a pi-iss on my street. (Harmonica solo.) J.B. I'm thinkin' key of E. | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 178 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hey Guitar Dad- Welcome to MOL!! Alright, first order of business...let's make an MOL band!!! The lyrics would be just incredible. Just kidding of course!  As far as your referrence about that meeting, that was quite a disaster, if you haven't heard. Since you're new to MOL, all you probably heard was just that it was cancelled. That meeting last year was very reactive, which is not good momentum. The Village Liaison Committee at SHU had planned a discussion forum for students and residents to talk as we had done before (exactly like how the new Community Meetings are run). Unfortunately (and in brief), the planned meeting I just spoke of was taken out of our hands (the VLC) and was taken over by the town. Both the format and the time was changed by the town, which were two important factors to us. The time made it impossible for many students to attend because of class, and the original moderated forum of discussion was no longer the format. We had invited the town so that we could work together, but it somehow was taken over and changed unbeknownst to the people who were planning the meeting (the VLC). Good momentum, by the way, is taking steps before the problem occurs, especially when we all know it is (to some degree) consistently reoccuring. Mark, all of those examples are reactions. I've seen very limited amount of proavtivity from the town and from the school. So that's what we're doing as students. Obviously "begging and pleading and screaming" isn't working. Neighborhoods change consistently and from what I've heard from residents, anything done in those past years just hasn't worked as well as people would have wanted. We're at the beginning of a chance to make some real changes so can we work together? If anyone chooses not to, well frankly I don't care, because the VLC will still be working towards a positive thing. For those who choose not to contribute positively, in the future, don't bother complaining, because you worked against those who were working selflessly and in your best interest. That must be the epitome of servant leadership. Feel free to PL me with ideas- even though we have a ton that we've been talking about, I know we haven't thought of everything. I hope to hear from some of you so we can work together on some great things for South Orange. Updates to come, as usual! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4180 Registered: 1-2004  |
Mark- The best thing to do about the rowdy SHU students is to call the police. It's time to get 'proactive.' Some of the same people are still having problems with the same students. It's obvious whatever you've been doing isn't working. Have the police come, catch those who are under age drinking. Let them spend a few hours in jail sobering up. Maybe that will make an impact on them. Fine the students as well as the homeowner for disturbing the peace. Also require them to do community service. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1482 Registered: 3-2003 |
I had asked above whether any arrests had been made for serving alcohol to minors when the police have been called to a house for a noise or other disturbance. The problem had become so pervasive in college towns across N.J., that the state legislature passed enabling legislation several years ago which allowed municpalities to adopt ordinances which which allow for arrests to be made in private residences for serving alcohola to minors. There were exceptions, for religious purposes, such as serving wine at Passover. I have asked this question several times: has South Orange passed such an ordinance? If it has, have any arrests been made under the ordinance? If SO hasn't passed such an ordinace, why not? Other towns have, and it is used. Note to JB - You have another musician in the group. Notehead also has problems with noise from college rentals as I recall. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2619 Registered: 4-2002 |
Kristen: The time and the place of the meeting were agreed upon by the SHU admin and myself. SHU cancelled the meeting. It was not as if a time and place were picked out of a hat. Spitz: The ordinance you have asked about has not been passed yet. There were some negatives to the ordinance that were pointed out to us. I was in favor, but I did understand the objections. We should revisit. Mark | ||
| Guitar Dad Citizen Username: Guitardad Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2006 |
I'm digging the tune Jersey Boy! I'll get out my bottleneck slide! By the way Kristen, I'd be happy to offer some opinions and help. What goes on with my street, however, is, I believe, beyond the "talking to the students" response. Some of them that have lived there (at this nearby house) have been quite friendly to my family and I, actually. Some not. But the point is: can a large house be rented to 7-8 non-family members in college with the expectation that they do not have lots and lots of people over in the middle of the night constantly walking, talking, slamming car doors at 3-4 a.m.? Probably not. It's not that most of them are doing anything that many of us didn't do in college. The only difference is, we don't want to live next door to them on a quiet residential street! I want the landlord to lose his/her ability to rent to large groups of unrelated people on a quiet, residential street. Otherwise, I'll just have to keep going over to talk to the group every single fall -- and sound like a man who is well beyond my age. It's really fairly simple in my opinion. College students in groups will be college students. Lets let them be . . . on campus or in a more downtown/village area. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1483 Registered: 3-2003 |
Mark - Many municipalities in N.J. have adopted such an ordinance. Why shouldn't SO? If the BOT wants to help its residents, and make sure its neighborhoods remain peaceful and quiet, it should adopt the ordinance. It's not going to eliminate the problem, but the state legislature has given you something to use to alleviate the problem. For the residents who are affected by college rental problems, you should get together and insist that the Village adopt such an ordinance. | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 179 Registered: 4-2005 |
You cannot have more than 6 people in a house, even if there at 7 bedrooms, unless it is a two family house...which means there needs to be adequate entrances and exits and other things that the town has to approve. So if it is clearly a one family house, chances are...8 people=illegal. JTA- Clearly you do not know what 'proactive' means, so luckily I am going to enlighten you. Calling the police is reactive...proactive is preventing the problem so the neighbors aren't even woken up to begin with. Also, as we specifically have discussed many times, SOPD fines the students and SHU gives them community service hours along with other actions- which differ from case to case. Lastly, JTA...please reply to my messages in the "SHUfly" thread. I'm DYING to know when I made that statement, because evidently you are the only one who knows. Please share this secret. Mark- Brian planned this meeting, I don't remember him agreeing on a location change. Brian started planning this in October and he came to Village Hall to invite the BOT. He was actually in contact with Laura Harris because he wanted to find a date that the board was mostly free to that it would be possibly for them to attend if they chose to. I don't recall the admin committing to anything but the VLC's meeting, but I do remember their shock when they thought we were still planning it, but then found out it had been taken out of our hands. None of the decisions for changes involved the VLC. | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 729 Registered: 8-2004 |
Instead of arguing about last year's failed meeting, is it possible for the VLC to organize a NEW meeting? This shouldn't be so hard. For example, how about this: Saturday morning, March 25 at 11am. I'm sure most residents would be able to attend, and that gives you three weeks to prepare and find a space. I think holding a meeting BEFORE the warm weather is important. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2620 Registered: 4-2002 |
Kristen: I spoke to a person (if you want her name on here, you can post it) and we agreed upon a date, time and place. She had pointed out SHU had already held a meeting with the students and the police chief a couple of months prior. She agreed that someone from the administration would come to this meeting. She understood the reason for this meeting was for the village and SHU to help moderate a meeting between the students and the residents. The objection from the students to the date and time (and this was in writing) was we set the meeting for the traditional party night. A second objection was the location (baird center) which for some reason was too far. So we said we would provide jitney service to and from the meeting (for the students). And then the meeting was cancelled with virtually no notice by SHU. If SHU and the VLC wanted to hold their own meeting, nothing was stopping them then and nothing is stopping it now. You do not need the permission of village hall. You tell me the date, the place and the time and I will make sure to get residents to attend along with some from village hall. | ||
| robyn brody-kaplan Citizen Username: Rbk Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 |
A side note, we live right behind the university on one of the dead end streets. We love it! We have never had a problem with the SHU students, sometimes students walk down the black going to/from school. There is even a house on our block with SHU kids - they are very nice, polite and I never hear them. There seem to be a lot of young families with children in the area - our block is pretty diverse. We have only been here a year and a bit but we love it! |
