| Author | Message | ||
     SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2006 |
I heard on CSPAN this morning that the Avian flu is expected to arrive in the US via Alaskan and Canadian flyways this May or June, July at the latest. It said that most of the money the government has spent preparing for it has been poorly spent. Specifically, few to no local public health plans have been developed and an enormous amount of money has gone into stockpiling Tamiflu (sp?) vacine. A recent article in the Lancet (British medical journal) indicates that Tamiflu not only is ineffective against Avian flu but could be a public health disaster by actually strengthening the Avian virus and weakening people’s resistance to it. Can anyone who knows please let us know what South Orange’s public health plan is for dealing with the arrival of Avian flu in the US, from the north, within a few months? If any medical personnel read this, could you please advise us what should be done from a public health standpoint and in view of the increased risk from Tamiflu vaccination? Thank you. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1396 Registered: 3-2002 |
SOrising, First of all, Tamiflu is not a vaccine. It is a drug that can lessen the intensity of influenza when taken early in the course of disease. Personally, I think that most planning for this needs to take place at a higher governmental level than Village government. Let's let the BOT deal with all of the other things that they need to do, and leave epidemic planning to hospitals and state, regional and national government. I'm not sure that they are doing a great job, but getting Bill Calabrese involved isn't going to do much to improve our preparedness. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1841 Registered: 8-2002 |
I agree with Susan -- I think the village should think about what it can do to help the most vulnerable in town. I would think transportation for medical care, meals for the elderly, and so on -- are things the village could very well be involved with. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2006 |
Susan, the point of the CSPAN report was that there needs to be local plans for dealing with it. Yes, Tamiflu is not a vaccine. However, it has been stockpiled and is now thought to weaken people's resistance to Avian flu. It is widely seen to be exactly what it is not: as some defense, however mild, against Avian flu. It is now clear that it actually exacerbates it. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2634 Registered: 4-2002 |
SOrising: The board of health meeting is the second thursday of each month at 7:30pm (next one is March 9th) in village hall. Perhaps you might want to attend and find out from the health officer what he knows and what plans are in place from both the state and the county. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 437 Registered: 6-2005 |
Mr Rosner- Who is the health officer, and does he/she have credentials in public health? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2636 Registered: 4-2002 |
His name is John Festa and he has credentials to be a health officer. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 49 Registered: 2-2006 |
Trustee Rosner, I do not have time to attend so many meetings in village hall. This bulletin board can and does provide a public service to people when it provides needed information. I regret that the village does not post more information on its own website. What is does post on its website is often very helpful to many people. But where it does not have information, that is no reason not to use an electronic means for public discussion. You must agree to some extent, even to be here. It is good that you read and comment on MOL. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 50 Registered: 2-2006 |
As I indicated previously, I am asking about South Orange's public health plan to deal with Avian flu and the increased danger posed by Tamiflu. I have not asked about the State of New Jersey's or Essex County's plan. Is South Orange's plan not to have one? If it has one, hopefully, it would interface with county and state plans but it should also have a component distinct for South Orange. Deferring exclusively to "other officials" or other levels of government is how New Orleans dealt with Katrina. I hope South Orange is not New Orleans. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3484 Registered: 5-2001  |
Downtown South Orange is starting to LOOK a lot like parts of New Orleans.  | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2510 Registered: 5-2004  |
Mark, does Mr. Festa have email through South Orange? So could SOrising (or any of us) email him at john.festa@southorange.org? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2639 Registered: 4-2002 |
Email addresses are first initial last name @southorange.org - so it would be jfesta@southorange.org Website link to the board of health: http://www.southorange.org/health.asp#Administration | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3275 Registered: 11-2001  |
Isn't there a communications policy established which would prevent Mr. Festa from answering a public e-mail inquiry? I'm pretty sure all communications out from village hall need to be funneled through John Gross. | ||
| Josh Holtz Citizen Username: Jholtz Post Number: 314 Registered: 4-2004 |
I think the real question becomes - will the Tony Smith sculpture attract more birds to South Orange? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 59 Registered: 2-2006 |
If SO has a public health policy for dealing with the imminent arrival of Avian flu, I hope the village posts it on the SO website and/or provides information here, on MOL a community bulletin board, or makes any other good-faith effort it can to communicate it to the public. It seems important enough that all means of communication should be used to let people know that it is arriving, that people should be alert, that Tamiflu can put the public at greater risk than they would be otherwise, etc. I am not a public health official. But it would be good to hear from one, proactively, without residents having to attend meetings in village hall to get the information. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1400 Registered: 3-2002 |
Not to be provocative, but is it useful for every small town in America to separately develop plans for quarantine, or communications strategies as to the best use or non-use of specific public health drugs? I think that it is important that our public health officer have the right connections to the sources of information and planning that our tax dollars pay for at the state and federal level, but I think that the amound of extra work (or expense) that should be invested at the local level to reinvent the wheel is actually quite limited. New Orleans needed a New Orleans specific plan because they could expect a New Orleans specific disaster. If a pandemic breaks out, it will not be South Orange specific, and will not require South Orange specific responses. What it will need is a good understanding of the plans and recommendations that will be in place across the state and nation, so that responses can be communicated and implemented in a clear and consistent manner. I'm far more concerned that our health officer is liasing with the right people than that he is developing his own South Orange specific plan. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 442 Registered: 6-2005 |
Susan- I can tell you for a fact of another city in another state which has put together disaster plans. They rank and order the potential disasters and figure out what they would have to do in response. For example, they have plans for vaccination sites and getting people to those sites. Quarantine and reporting mechanisms I would hope are being looked at by various health agencies with recommendations to local officials. I would really like to know too what our local officials know and are planning. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1402 Registered: 3-2002 |
Exactly, as you said "looked at by various health agencies, with recommendations to local officials". My expectation is that our local officials will take those recommendations and act on them, rather than feel a need to try to plan from scratch, as you seemed to be advocating earlier (and across many threads). | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2642 Registered: 4-2002 |
Susan: This dialogue reminds me of the one about the OEM plan. Obviously you understand what needs to be done and the logical course that should be followed. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1405 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks! | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 62 Registered: 2-2006 |
Susan, not to be provocative, but aren't you straw dogging things a bit? The only person who has mentioned a "separate" plan for SO "developed from scratch" is you. I don't know anyone else interested in such a plan, except Trustee Rosner, who has found it an opportune occasion to reject it as well. To be serious for a moment, how do you think dead birds, dead domestic animals, ill people are monitored? Will the feds fly around in helicopters trying to find them or would it perhaps be helpful that SO residents out walking around might observe a few things? Pandemics may be global but they spread and kill people locally. SO should not cruise along with a simplistic attitude that infectious diseases are either/or phenomena: national vs. local. Who has ever heard of a "national" disease? Do people catch measels or do countries catch them? False dicotomy? Which half do we throw out today? I know you know better. I think any health officer would. I'd just like to be spared SO passing the buck on their responsibility in it all and would like to know what they've actually produced in the way of a plan. Again, it was a point of the CSPAN report that not enough local planning has been done. You are quite wrong it will not be SO specific. Didn't each and every town affected by hurricane Katrina need to respond to it in very specific ways? Highly infectious diseases with no known remedies are similar, even as they affect neighboring towns as well. Should we all ask Maplewood what to do and let them do all the work? | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 471 Registered: 1-2004  |
Mark, as you indicated in response to my e:mail to you the question of publishing/communicating the plan has been placed on the Public Safety Committee meeting agenda. ---e:mail The following is the response I received to an OPRA request for reviewing a "Copy of the South Orange Disaster and Emergency Management Plans." "The South Orange Disaster and Emergency Management Plan is not a public record for the following reasons: NJSA 47:1A1 Exempts from public records 1) emergency or security info or procedures for any bldgs or facility which, if disclosed would jeopardize security of the bldg or facility or persons ... 2) security measures and surveillance techniques which if disclosed would create a risk to the safety of persons, property, electronic data or software. If there is a specific question or questions you have about the Plan we will try to answer the questions for you." My first reaction to this response is that a plan does not exist and this is being used as an excuse as a cover up. I don't believe this to be true but am disappointed the Township cannot provide a public version. There should be a public portion of the document that represents a "preparedness" component that defines what to do in case of a disaster or emergency - listen to radio station ..., the Siren will blast for ..., tune to channel 19 for..., The Baird community Center will be used as an evacuation shelter .... You indicated in a post on MOL that one should just go to Town Hall and read the document. This was the response to my attempt at doing just that through an OPRA request. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 63 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thank you, Howard. Very helpful, as usual. It appears from what you have learned that, at best, the SO Disaster and Emergency Management Plan is a plan to respond to terrorism but not to a natural disaster. Sound like New Orleans? It is. After 9/11, FEMA was dismantled under the rubric of being reorganized into the Dept. of Homeland Security. All the emphasis was on violent terrorist attacks. One of many reasons why the feds contributed to the disaster in New Orleans is that FEMA, in response to 9/11, had been enormously handicapped from responding to natural disasters. The SO health officer needs the liberty, authority and resources to respond as his professional judgement in consultation with other professionals (yes, including county, state and federal ones) dictates, not what some supervisor without his professional background may dictate. And we all need to know what SO's plan for natural disasters and naturally occurring biological threats, including specifically, this one, are. Surely we can learn from Katrina and one of many lessons from it is that local responses make critical differences, and can save lives. To all the trustees, I regret the timing of this concern so close to discussions about funding irregularities about the TS sculpture. But do see that they are unrelated, I am not orchestrating the spread of Avian flu, and that they require very different kinds of reponses. There is still time to begin working on a SO plan if one does not yet exist. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2648 Registered: 4-2002 |
Howard: There is a version on the website (which you already know) and it has several links including one to the county and to FEMA. http://www.southorange.org/oem.asp There are links for the four most common types of disasters (fire, flood, storms and power outages) and what one should do. If there is a widespread disaster, the state and the county would be taking the lead. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 64 Registered: 2-2006 |
By the way, I hope, in developing a plan for SO, contingencies are developed in the event that other levels of government fail to come through. Again, learn from Katrina. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 473 Registered: 1-2004 |
Mark, first it is extremely difficult to find this information on the SO Web site if not specially directed as you did above. Second, I would term these as generalized outlines. What we should have are specifics relating to South Orange or are you saying don't worry the State and County will take care of us - right! | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2650 Registered: 4-2002 |
Howie: I never said don't worry and don't try and put words in my mouth. The types of disasters you and SOrising seem to be referring to are probably going to impact the whole area, not just the village. So clearly it will take a coordinated effort with other towns and with the county/state. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2651 Registered: 4-2002 |
By the way, S. Orange also has a CERT (Certified emergency response team) made up of professionals and volunteers. A class of 7 or 8 students recently graduated. for more info: http://www.southorange.org/cert.asp | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 474 Registered: 1-2004 |
Mark, I do not think I put words into your mouth. There are emergencies/disasters that are local which require local preparedness. Maybe you can answer when the Web based Emergency Notification program will go into effect. | ||
| thegoodsgt Citizen Username: Thegoodsgt Post Number: 932 Registered: 2-2002  |
An epidemic of overreaction http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-siegel11oct11,0,4934019,pri nt.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions By Marc Siegel - Internist and associate professor at the New York University School of Medicine. He is the author of "False Alarm: The Truth about the Epidemic of Fear." | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 83 Registered: 2-2006 |
Here is a link to an Irish newspaper's report on a recent WHO meeting about avian flu, along with the lead paragraphs of the article. There appears to be no plan to deal with it in South Orange, other than to let others deal with it. The CSPAN report initially referenced said this kind of non-response is a huge mistake of misdirection. Comments about this specific point are especially welcome. http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/world/Full_Story/did-sgIiF2j7HjvAAsg0aewF BADppk.asp THE lethal strain of bird flu poses a greater challenge to the world than any infectious disease, including AIDS, and has cost 300 million farmers over $10 billion in its spread through poultry around the world, the World Health Organisation said yesterday. Scientists also are increasingly worried that the H5N1 strain could mutate into a form easily passed between humans, triggering a global pandemic. It already is unprecedented as an animal illness in its rapid expansion. | ||
| e roberts Citizen Username: Wnwd00 Post Number: 373 Registered: 3-2004 |
ok so a few things, mark, please do not blow smoke at everyone by implying that the CERT team will be able to do anything productive, i am fully aware of the "training" this group has recieved, and while the individuals are well intentioned, they will not be able to provide any type of support in a diaster. this is not true just in south orange but the entire CERT program. it was put together to make people feel better, not to actually be productive in a emergency situation, i mean even the most advanced CERT program in the southwestern part of the country is only 100 hours. so lets not kid ourselves about that. second sorising, are you a public health official? do you have any expierence in public safety or emergency management? well i do. and i would never releast any type of emergecny plans to the public for several reasons, including preventing the outbreak of hysteria. you must understand there are very very very few diasters that would include just south orange, typically it would involve a much larger area perhaps the county level which is where the majority of this planning is taking place. just because you are not aware of it, does not mean it is not happening. also in general the emergency management, and public safety offices in new jersey are trained and operate at a much higher level then in other parts of the country, perhaps second only to the area around DC in MD and VA. you sometimes have to have some faith. also there are plans, but publicily talking about forced quarentines involving national guard, state, local police and other agencnies is not what people want to hear and they do not NEED to hear it. so basically so i am telling you, you do not NEED to know, and this feeling of entitlement you are having is greatly misplaced, perhaps you should focus you efforts on something more productive that is not being handeled by various levels of the local, county, and state goverment (NOTICE i did NOT mention FEDERAL at all) | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 326 Registered: 2-2005 |
Didn't the state create a "homeland Security" office in the Attorney General's Office? I would assume they would control or dictate much of what happens locally, but I agree with ERoberts, I don't think Emergency Management lets on to their plans. An example that got tons of criticism is Katrina. Just because the Katrina disaster had flaws, Emergency Management did operate to a degree, it was just overwhelmed by the severity and size of the disaster. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 466 Registered: 6-2005 |
The New York Times today had a story about the respirators which hospitals would require if a pandemic were to hit, and the woeful lack of them. At a cost of about $30,000, hospitals are reluctant to make the investment, should they never be needed. That being said, wouldn't it have been interesting, if rather than spending $500,000 for a sculpture, the village bought 16 respirators for use for South Orange residents, should they be required. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1412 Registered: 3-2002 |
Right after we build the hospital here in town... | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 84 Registered: 2-2006 |
Even emergency field hospitals and triage units can have respirators, Susan. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 87 Registered: 2-2006 |
A video link to the C-SPAN report can be found on C-SPAN's website (www.c-span.org). Here is an abstract of the report: Laurie Garrett, Senior Fellow for Global Health, Council on Foreign Relations discusses U.S. and international efforts to prepare for and combat avian flu. U.S. health officials announced plans on Monday to develop a second vaccine to protect people from bird flu because the virus spreading among birds in Asia, Africa and Europe is changing. 3/7/2006: WASHINGTON, DC: 45 min. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2582 Registered: 5-2004 |
Do you really think we'll have an emergency field hospital here in South Orange? I mean, seriously? And ... "the village bought 16 respirators for use for South Orange residents" are we going to turn away people from other towns when they come begging at our "state of the art" field hospital? Let's separate the seriousness of the threat with the realistic response from our town. I doubt anyone would disagree that avian flu is a serious threat. Are you suggesting South Orange also work on a vaccine of their own? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2667 Registered: 4-2002 |
SOrising: The health officer has the liberty and the authority to respond and to work with other professionals. The BOT controls the budget, and I am sure any reasonable request would be considered. Eroberts: I realize a volunteer cert team has limitations but I posted that in response to an earlier post. It was also to get the word out and perhaps might help to recruit other volunteers. Jayjay: Who would administer and maintain the respirators and how would that be paid for (and by the way, at $30,000 each, that would be 8 units, not 16 since the village has funded $250,000). The county share of our property tax bill is not that much less than our municipal portion. The county provides very little services for those dollars to the towns so this it would seem to make a lot of sense to push the county to lead the charge in disaster preperation and response - especially since you and a couple of others are talking about a disaster that would impact everyone in the county, not just the village. OR are you ok with letting the county off the hook? This does not mean the village should do nothing or just sit back and wait for the county (and the state) but to make sure we get the kind of assistance we need. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3517 Registered: 5-2001 |
How many Tony Smith statues has Essex County bought with taxpayer money? not to say that Essex County doesn't have it's own share of waste & corruption, but this is a glaring example of excess government spending in South Orange |
