| Author | Message | ||
     joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 213 Registered: 1-2006 |
Are those AT&T cell phone towers, which complement the other metal structure? Love the black, it's so goth!!! jd | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 788 Registered: 8-2004  |
This is to scale?? Really? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 214 Registered: 1-2006 |
What are the true dimesions? Let us compare them to the little model. jd | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8983 Registered: 4-1997  |
Love the art. Hate the lies and the waste. How did the voters agree to anything if they've been lied to up until recently? Taxes and/or bonding, it's more than a half a million dollar blunder. What was a great piece of art is going to be a symbol for stupidity, corruption and arrogance. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3132 Registered: 9-2003 |
Yes, it is to scale. True dimentions: 14' at the tallest point, 21' at the widest, 7' at the narrowest. As I said - it's different from every angle. The overview layout represents the ladscape as it is now - I understand that those dimensions will not change. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1440 Registered: 3-2002 |
Does the budget include money for the rather large trees shown in the rendering? | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 233 Registered: 2-2005 |
The scale doesn't look right to me on this. can that many people and trees fit in that area? Don't the police like to park their car there? First you have money. then you decide how to spend it. Just because most of the people in this country are living with credit card debt, doesn't mean our town should too. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8984 Registered: 4-1997 |
The scale is way, way off. Look at the width of the turn circle. Look at the width of the crosswalks and the cars. More lies. Visual ones this time. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3133 Registered: 9-2003 |
How about it being a symbol of rising abive the stupidity, corruption and arrogance? I'd havre to see the actual bond issue (and I'll be my buddy MHD will soon provide it) to see how the funding for TAU falls into it. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 215 Registered: 1-2006 |
Please show where the 21 feet dimension is located. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 216 Registered: 1-2006 |
The cars are depicted angle parked in the wrong direction. What else? jd | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3368 Registered: 11-2001  |
Petition for Recall. The public decided ••••! | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3134 Registered: 9-2003 |
Pizzaz - I seriously thought about a petition for recall - then realized the cost to the town and the timeframe involved and realized that our time and money would be better spent educating the voters and backing intelligent, dedicated people who don't have a personal connection to redevelopment areas. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8985 Registered: 4-1997 |
Is this thing grounded? | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1597 Registered: 3-2003 |
I think there is definitely something wrong with the depiction. Most of us who are familiar with the circle know that a car takes up most of area in the roadway. At most, you might be able to fit six cars bumper to bumper. In the depiction, there's room for 20 cars. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 217 Registered: 1-2006 |
No windows in train station facade. Where is the scale reference located? jd | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8986 Registered: 4-1997 |
http://www.wallys.com/archives/2001_aeterna.mp3 | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1441 Registered: 3-2002 |
Quite a bit of artistic license for a site plan! | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8987 Registered: 4-1997 |
 Photos don't lie | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2005 |
Bottom line, love the art or hate it, this sounds like a game of South Orange monopoly (I have seen the West Orange Monopoly game for sale in Panera in West Orange and was told there was a South Orange version)... The difference is that this is not a game, it is real. Unlike the game, we can't sit and laugh as we mortgage properties, or chortle as we are wiped out financially as we know that we can start afresh the next time, or not pass go do not collect $200. Even the board game chance cards say "pay utilities" or "Pay x-amount to upkeep each property" etc etc. There are only a few people who know EXACTLY what is going on. Postings and petitions are well meant and encouraging to see people taking the time to join in etc, but the real test is how many will take the time on Monday to attend the BOT meeting? We all have "Better" things to do with our time, or do we? By better, do I really mean more interesting? I know I do, but I know that unless I put my butt on a seat in that room Monday night, and LISTEN, and decide if I am truly being lied to/misled/misinformed etc, all my comments and ramblings are worth nothing. This is our town, spending a couple of hours, even if it's just the once, and TRY to start make the changes that so many people are stating they want should be a priority. I've said before, the quality of the majority of the postings I have read, and the ideas/solutions to a multitude of issues being raised can only mean that we have a superb range of natural talent in our town, why not listen to our residents and maybe even pay attention to what they are saying, after all, I am sure some of the ideas are well worth hearing. | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3369 Registered: 11-2001 |
Our time will be better spent getting the likes of Calabrese (Sayid and the untold investors), Rosen, Taylor, Moore, Gross, Matthews out of the decision making role for the village. No other purpose could suit us better. A court injunction and a federal investigation of the uses of grant funds for the past 8 years should be undertaken. There is a myriad of lies that permeate this project and it must be stopped! We have been far too lenient and accepting of our trust in our elected officials. They have demonstrated time and time again that they govern by deception and lies. It's way over due to raise the curtain and spot light their self conflicted interests. The delay will certainly save us a minimum of $250k plus interest for over 30 years. And if the Tau should turn to the issue of arousing public interest in public affairs, so be it. We are way overdue for reform in governance and the cause to further public participation in policy decision making. The artsy, fartsies can fart all they want - raise the money and put it in the park. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1598 Registered: 3-2003 |
I just went down to the gazebo site to take some measurements. Ms. Arnedt did say the piece was not higher than the gazabo, and this is correct. The width of Tau is 21 ft. (although as SOL does point out, it's not uniform.) The width of the gazebo is 12.5 ft. on all sides. Of course, the gazebo is open. Just eyeballing the area, I think there has been a lot of artistic license taken in the depicition. But at least you have the dimensions. SOL - You know that I respect you quite a bit. I know that your concern was not so much the monetary aspect as the location. I've indicated that Mrs. S. likes the piece also, but would rather see other much needed things done in town first.I think most of the people who have so far signed the petition feel the same way, in addition to being upset with the miscommunication, deception, or whatever concerning the financing of Tau. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8988 Registered: 4-1997 |
This isn't really about art any longer. It's about arrogance and mismanagement (which could be corruption rather than simple stupidity, but I have a sense there's a mingling of both). It's about holding people accountable for their actions and statements. Compounding those lies with visual lies is no better, IMO. At ever turn, people pushing for this sculpture have lied to the public and done a profound disservice to honest debate and public input. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1052 Registered: 7-2004  |
If you build it, they will come... | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 160 Registered: 2-2006 |
SoOrLady, you should read several archives for several threads concerning the money it will take to get Tau and maintain it. You are seriously deceived if you think it will only be $250,000. Ask any trustee for a breakdown of ALL expenses for it. Trustee Rosner is the only one who provided figures he received, almost a year ago now, here on MOL. The figures do not account even for all known expenses, nor do they indicate why other expenses (like insurance, expenses of tearing up the gazebo, etc.) are not included. Try to get real figures for the cost of the thing, post them here and see. Again, read several archives in which much of this has been discussed for several weeks. Unfortunately, you just can't believe what you have been told and reported. The figures are nearly impossible to produce and are not credible when they are provided. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8990 Registered: 4-1997 |
$440,000 was the total back then. Most budgets spill over 10-30%. The $250,000 is a bond, I understand (future tax dollars) and the rest is almost all tax dollars. Was $40,000 or so raised privately? Something in that ballpark. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3135 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave - I know you like this sculpture... and I realize that I'm coming into the debate at the tail end. As I told Cheryl this morning, we hear art, sculptue, gift, grant... it all goes on the back burner until it all comes to a screetching halt with HOLD IT.. it's going to COST US money? But I felt the need to get direct info before I jumped on the kill the tau bandwagon. I admit that I didn't notice the disparity between the circle and how it is represented in the model and now I wonder what else is "off". Spitz - I agree that the BOT has been negligent with the public trust. But, as you must know there is money, and then there is money. How each "pocket" is designated is how it must be spent. While I no longer think the planned venue for TAU is inappropriate for its size, I do see it as a huge show is disrespect for our firemen who have been living in trailors for a number of years. "Sorry guys, we don't have money to finish the fire house but here's a nice piece of art for you to look at". | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 161 Registered: 2-2006 |
The model site plan SoOrLady saw and has posted here cannot be to scale. As Spitz mentioned, cars in the traffic circle are one indication. The photograph Dave just reposted of a real person in front of a real Tau, however, is a reliable standard to use to assess the thing. SoOrLady, why do you think people promoting it are doing it with inaccurate and misleading information? Even if their motives are the best you can possibly imagine, you need to think critically about their claims for many reasons. They can be very nice people and still be very wrong about this topic. South Orange cannot afford even well-intentioned mistakes just now. Its future and financial viability are at risk. | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 42 Registered: 5-2005 |
Nice to know we are entertaining Maplewood AGAIN... The new poll on the Maplewood section of MOL is who wants SO Trustees in Maplewood. They says it's quite amusing as our local government is such a free for all, and give more entertainment value than Maplewood. Another ones says it really isn't funny, another one says that SO is a case in hand why Maplewood should retain the system they have.... | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 234 Registered: 5-2005  |
What is the timeline for the sculpture? Is there a construction/installation date? How much longer does the town have to prevent the Tau?? | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3136 Registered: 9-2003 |
As I understand it, TAU must be installed by fall or the deal is off. | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 44 Registered: 5-2005 |
Does anyone know the answer to the following?? I was about to ask online what the "thought" behind the erecting of the gazebo and fountain was, figuring that there probably wasn't one as it seems easy to take it down. Did it have a significance as to why it was erected? I have just had a call from someone saying that have just seen the petition etc, and thought that the gazebo was a 9/11 memorial. Is she right? Even if she isn't, I would still like to know if the gazebo etc was just a pretty thing to put there (I didn't move in until end 2002) or if there was a reason for it. Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer this for me. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 219 Registered: 1-2006 |
Three views, one from up in the air, two from the side, at squirrel eye level, a distance away, and looking upwards. None from directly in front, or directly on either side, or the back. None from the sidewalk next to it, or from a car in the traffic circle, or the train platform, or the sidewalk benches, and, of particular note: was this "likeness" made by Gumby? Further, doesn't the group of twenty who bewitched the BOT have money to pay for a true likeness to scale to be fabricated. Don't the village elders want to know the truth, or is the truth to hard to handle? dj | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 221 Registered: 1-2006 |
These people are playing the BOT for fools. The Board just can't admit a mistake. That is their fundamental mistake, for years on end. jd | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3137 Registered: 9-2003 |
joel - sorry, I never claimed to be a good photographer. Here's another angle, which I think actually seems to be representative of Dave's photo  | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3138 Registered: 9-2003 |
I still have some questions regarding the funding- and I will do my best to be there Monday night. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8991 Registered: 4-1997 |
A house costs $500,000 (a small house). Metal adhered into an irregular box? There's no electrical, no heating, no cooling, no sheetrocking, no plumbing, no fixtures, no garages, no roofing, no joists, no load-bearing walls, no painting, no flooring, no windows, no siding, etc. Makes you wonder. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1629 Registered: 2-2005  |
Amazing that the gazebo might be a 9/11 memorial...I thought it was already erected when I moved here in 2000; however, I might be mistaken. | ||
| Tracey Randinelli Citizen Username: Traceyr Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2005 |
I'm assuming that the South Orange Tau is the same dimensions as the one at Hunter College, correct? If that is true....my husband and I were there last night. He's about six feet tall. Here's how he looks next to it:  | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1630 Registered: 2-2005 |
The lengths John and Tracey will go to... |
