| Author | Message | |||
     MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3679 Registered: 5-2001  |
I understand that the Sculpture people are distributing what they call a "fact sheet", however it does not contain any factual references. To clear up some of the rhetoric in the other threads and to provide some FACTS for people who are planning to speak to the BOT, here is a real FACT SHEET summarizing the Project Timeline, News Media Coverage, Estimated Costs and Public Dialog. If anyone has additional DOCUMENTED FACTS or feels anything has been omitted, please free to add. I just request that THIS thread remain for FACTS and other threads can continue for opinions (such as the sculpture location etc): Timeline November 25, 2002 BOT Meeting #283-02 – Resolution Authorizing the Village President to Submit Applications for Essex County Community Development Block Grant Funding for Program Year 2003. [included $250,000 REQUEST for Tony Smith Sculpture, which was later DENIED] (http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2002/11252002r.htm) March 10, 2003 BOT Meeting: Tony Smith Sculpture - The Village Administrator passed amongst the Trustees pictures of the statue, the rights of which to build said statue are being given to the Village. The Village has applied for a grant for the money for this item, however, the grant does not look promising. Mr. Gross explained that the donation to the Village is a donation of the right to manufacture this sculpture. The sculpture, itself, is not being donated. The estimated cost to build this piece is $80,000. There are also other costs above and beyond the $80,000 with an approximate cost of $200,000 to $250,000 for the piece and the maintenance over a period of time. Mr. Gross commented that the exact costs are unclear as they do not include shipping and/or installation. http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2003/3-10-03CA.htm March 14, 2005: BOT Meeting #77-05 – Resolution Accepting the Gift of a Tony Smith Sculpture. http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2005/03-14-05sm.pdf July 11, 2005 BOT Meeting: Contract for Consulting Services for Site Improvements for the Tony Smith Sculpture – Village Administrator, John Gross advised that there will be a resolution at the July 25th Regular Meeting awarding the contract for professional services for the Tony Smith sculpture layout on the square. http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2005/07-11-05CA.pdf July 25, 2005 BOT Meeting: #215-05- Resolution to Engage the Professional Services of SESI Consulting Engineers to Perform Engineering and Landscape Architecture Services for the Design of Site Improvements for the Tony Smith Sculpture. http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2005/07-25-05RM.pdf February 27, 2006, BOT Meeting The following quotes were spoken by the Board of Trustees WITHOUT CORRECTION BY ANYONE when asked about the source of the funding for the Sculpture: “It is coming from a grant that we received” (Calabrese) “The first $250 thousand was a grant” (Rosen) “The Statue obtained by a grant and and then supported by Committee”(Rosen) “This money came from a Federal Grant” (Rosen) “The Village is not going to spend a cent of taxpayer money” (Rosen) “It did so without sacrificing anything we would ordinary provide” (Taylor) “The money could only be used for that purpose We did not take tax dollars” (Taylor) “The money was given to us for the sculpture” (Taylor) (http://192.216.20.14/BoardOfTrustees/bot02272006.wmv) March 13, 2006 BOT Meeting According to the Star Ledger: “Three trustees said at a meeting Feb. 27 that the village's $250,000 contribution would be covered by a federal community development grant and said "no taxpayer dollars" would be used. But at a special meeting Monday night, the trustees -- Allen Rosen, William Calabrese and Arthur Taylor -- said they were misinformed when they gave that guarantee. The community development grant, they discovered, could not be used for the statue and must be applied to projects such as the new South Orange Performing Arts Center. Instead of using federal dollars, the village will take $250,000 from the SOPAC capital fund and use it toward the $410,000 project. “ http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=569806#POST569806 News Media The New York Times, Nov 3, 2002 “South Orange Seeking To Honor a Native Son” http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=569802#POST569802 The Star-Ledger Jan 9, 2003 “In sculpture, South Orange sees honor; Foundation will obtain replica of Smith design to fete native son” http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=569803#POST569803 Gaslight – October 2003: “Tony Smith: A South Orange Native Son’s Artistic Journey," will be presented Nov. 13 by the South Orange-Maplewood Adult School. Smith, who lived from 1912 to 1980,was a world-renowned sculptor, architect and painter.At his Stanley Road home in South Orange, he hosted famous visitors such as Jackson Pollock, Barnett Newman, Mark Rothko and Tennessee Williams. Architect David Rifkind and Tony Smith Sculpture Project Director Cheryl Arnedt will examine Smith’s artistic journey. The $10 lecture runs from 7:30 to 9 p.m. at South Orange Middle School. For nformation, call (973) 378-7620. http://www.southorange.org/Gaslight/2003/October.pdf Gaslight – April 2004: The Tony Smith Sculpture Project aims to obtain a permanent, outdoor Smith sculpture for downtown South Orange. http://www.southorange.org/Gaslight/2004/AprilGaslight.pdf Gaslight September 2005: An eight-year resident of South Orange, the artist hopes one day that his location will become part of an “artists’way.” In fact, his gallery offers a terrace view of the spot where a sculpture by famed South Orange artist Tony Smith is planned for permanent placement. http://www.southorange.org/Gaslight/2005/SeptemberGaslight.pdf Star Ledger August 31, 2005 “S. Orange plans for artwork by native son” article states “A $250,000 community development grant will pay part of the costs.” http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=569805#POST569805 Star Ledger March 15, 2006: “S. Orange trustees wrong on art project” http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=569806#POST569806 Cost to taxpayers $250,000 PLUS the balance of the cost not raised by private fundraising. According to Trustee Mark Rosner, the total project cost is as follows: Fabrication: $90,000 Delivery and Installation: $20,000 Demo/Site clearing $40,000 Brick Paving $65,000 Structural Soil $55,000 Furniture, landscaping and irrigation $60,000 Lighting $35,000 Site Design and construction admin. $75,000 Total Cost: $440,000 At the Feb 27, 2006 Board of Trustees Meeting: In response to questions raised by Mr. Goldberg, he was advised that the sculpture would cost $85,000 to fabricate and that the total estimated cost of the sculpture was $410,000 with $250,000 coming from the Village in grant money and the remainder from fundraising by the Tony Smith Committee which has pledged to cover any and all other costs including future maintenance costs. Mr. Goldberg asked if the Village taxpayers would have to pay the balance of the cost for this sculpture in the event the Committee did not raise the funds. Village President Calabrese replied in the affirmative. http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2006/02-27-06RM.pdf Public Dialog Until the March 13, 2006 Board of Trustees Meeting, to my knowledge based on the above references, there was NO official public discussion or written article about the TAXPAYER COST of this project. (including the above News Media references) There have been no public hearings or official solicitations of public opinion. When the public did directly ask the Board of Trustees about the source of the funding, Bill Calabrese, Arthur Taylor and Allan Rosen directly lied at least eight times and stated the money would be coming from a Grant. http://192.216.20.14/BoardOfTrustees/bot02272006.wmv | |||
| Debra Davidson Citizen Username: Peanutslady Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2005  |
Please can't the town put the sculpture in front of a town building instead of tearing down the gazebo which will cost the town money to do? Please I feel it will it be less expensive if the town puts the sculpture in front of the town senior center or one of the schools for example. Please what do you all think of my suggestion? | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3685 Registered: 5-2001 |
Debra, Please share OPINION in the other threads. Here is a WORD Version of the above post that can be distributed or shared with the media.
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| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 234 Registered: 1-2006 |
Take a picure of one of the original copies, at Hunter College, and distribute it with the town Gaslight flyer, therefore art will be brought home, literally. jd | |||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 236 Registered: 2-2005 |
Fact: Someone sent me this email. Crazy Quilter -the estimated costs are $410,000 - not $440,000 - and have been reduced as survey work at the site continues and certain design elements are refined to keep costs at or below $410,000. -part of the LPMAF fundraising is to put money in trust to provide seed money for future maintenance and conservation. -the impact on the town’s insurance premium is zero according to the insurance company. I could go on and on, but I think that since (name deleted) has directed people to read MOL and the VCNA listserv, I humbly add to that list Cheryl Arnedt, Director of the Tony Smith Project. She can be reached at tonysmithproject@verizonmail.com. March TSSP fact sheet 1. $500,000 in taxpayer dollars is not at stake. The Tony Smith Sculpture Project (TSSP) is being funded by a combination of municipal and private funds. A few years back, the BOT approved $250,000 in bond money to be put toward the sculpture project. The balance will be raised privately by the Lennie Pierro Memorial Arts Foundation (LPMAF) and its TSSP. The current estimate for fabrication, transportation, installation and site construction is $410,000. Project costs over and above $250,000 will be contributed by the LPMAF. To date, the LPMAF has spent private funds to commission and implement the site design, and the foundation’s fundraising plans will yield the balance over and above $250,000 at no cost to the taxpayers. Once the survey work at the site, by landscape architect Ann Kearsley and SESI Engineering, is completed this spring, the LPMAF will work with the architect, engineers and the town to keep costs to a minimum and revise select design elements to keep the project on budget. (In fact, certain design elements have already been modified at significant cost savings.) Maintenance costs for the redesigned site are projected to be less than the current site. Fountain maintenance in particular is very costly, and plowing on a level and clear ground plane will be much easier. The town’s insurance company estimates that “Tau” will have zero impact on the Village’s insurance premium. And the Village will be setting up a trust into which the LPMAF will deposit money to seed a fund for future maintenance of the sculpture. 2. The Star-Ledger headline is misleading and the source of money has been a matter of public record for months. At a 2/27 BOT meeting, several trustees misspoke about using grant, not taxpayer dollars, even though a contemporaneous clarification for the record was made by John Gross on that same night, and Trustee Rosner had posted the use of taxpayer money on MOL and stated it publicly as far back as this summer. 3. There has been significant public outreach and dissemination of information. Since 2002, project volunteers have done a wide range of community outreach. Prior to approaching the Tony Smith Estate, the LPMAF reached out to the boards/members of Main Street South Orange, NJ Transit, the Village government, The Village Club, the Montrose Park Historic District Association, SOPAC, the local historic preservation group as well as the New Jersey State Historic Preservation Office to introduce ourselves, lay out our plan of action and get feedback. Prior to beginning design work, Kearsley visited South Orange several times to survey the site and analyze its many uses, current and future – again, paid for by the LPMAF. During these initial planning visits in 2002-03, Kearsley met with the LPMAF, Main Street South Orange design committee members, and representatives from NJ Transit, the Village government, SOPAC, and Historic Preservation. (Since the train and fire stations are historic landmarks, every consideration was made so that any proposed design would meet SHPO guidelines.) This thorough review of the site’s multiple uses by residents, children, commuters, SOPAC patrons, visitors, shoppers, etc., was conducted before Kearsley began any design work. The resulting design takes all of these uses and concerns into account. Once the LPMAF had Kearsley’s proposed plan – with schematic drawings, cost estimates and an architectural scale model – we went back to all of the above-mentioned groups to show them the model and get their feedback. In addition, the LPMAF reached out to a variety of neighborhood groups and spent countless hours presenting the model and full project details to residents throughout town in neighborhoods including Vose Avenue, Prospect Avenue, Meadowbrook Lane, Hillside Place, Newstead and Montrose. There have been one New York Times article, three Star-Ledger articles, five News-Record articles, a public lecture at the Adult School, a South Orange library presentation, several items in “The Gaslight,” and several formal presentations – with the model in hand – at public BOT meetings from 2003-present. 4. South Orange has been gifted a museum-quality piece of art for a fraction of its value. The LPMAF worked closely with the town and the Tony Smith Estate to secure the gift of the sculpture “Tau.” The gift from the Smith Estate is substantial: the Village is getting a sculpture worth $500-$600,000 for the cost of fabrication - $85,000. Some details about “Tau.” The sculpture is approximately 14 feet high, 21 feet wide at its widest point, and 7 feet wide at its narrowest point. People will be able to walk under and around the sculpture. Compared to the gazebo: “Tau” is lower than the gazebo’s roofline and about as wide as the gazebo. 5. Art education is a significant goal of the TSSP. From its inception, the LPMAF’s goals AFTER securing and installing a Smith sculptureare to continue raising funds, through grants and privately, for ongoing special K-12 art projects throughout the South Orange-Maplewood school district. (We have already raised $5,000 in grant money to begin these projects once “Tau” is installed.) Because Tony Smith (1912-80) was an architect (under Frank Lloyd Wright) and a painter, as well as a sculptor, his work is ideally suited to projects from math, geometry and painting to architecture, sculpture and the fine arts. A long-term goal is to raise funds to give grants including: -field trips for district students to the Newark Museum, MoMA and other museums to see and learn about Smith’s work; -field trips for neighboring middle-schools in underprivileged areas like Irvington, Orange, East Orange and Newark to South Orange, the Newark Museum and New York City to see and learn about Smith’s work; -sponsoring artist-in-residence programs throughout the school district; and -giving grants to district art teachers for additional special projects. This excerpt from one of our 2003 grant proposals explains why countless community volunteers have worked so hard over the last four years to complete the TSSP: “The beauty of public art is that it necessarily has a lasting impact on all who view it – ‘alone or with others, over time and in some depth,’ in the words of the Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation. Given Tony Smith’s ties to the South Orange community and to New Jersey, we believe the combination of the public art work and our educational programs will provide a unique opportunity for people to feel connected to the arts on an individual and community level in a way that few projects are designed to do.” “We are a thriving, vibrant arts community, and our children will benefit from having this magnificent piece of public art – created by a native son right here in his Montrose backyard – to enjoy for decades to come. The TSSP strives to enhance our children’s appreciation of the arts by teaching them that art is all around them. The most basic definition of “art” is a creative use of talent. So not only is Smith’s sculpture art, but the buildings our children live and learn in, the poetry they write, the music they sing and listen to, the stories they tell, the gardens they plant are all “art” and substantially enrich their lives.” 6. The TSSP is neither an atrocity nor a source of embarrassment and shame. The stature of Tony Smith and the prestige it will bring to South Orange are immeasurable. The NJN Emmy Award-winning show “State of the Arts” is ready to begin shooting a long-awaited documentary on the project and South Orange. The Lippincott Foundry that will be fabricating South Orange’s “Tau” is world-famous and has fabricated sculpture for art-world innovators from Keith Haring, Roy Lichtenstein and Louise Nevelson to Barnett Newman and Tony Smith. After “Tau”’s installation, Seton Hall University will be co-hosting a symposium with the LPMAF examining Smith’s influence and work. It will bring art-world luminaries to South Orange from all over. A downtown anchor plaza of this type will enhance our downtown and South Orange’s reputation as the arts community it has become. The redesigned Sloan Street site will be both beautiful and functional. In fact, one of the design considerations is the safety hazard the existing fountain poses. The current site has very limited points of ingress and egress from the SOPAC side. Once SOPAC opens, the fountain in particular will pose a significant pedestrian hazard. | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3691 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks, Crazy. Yes - that is the document from the "sculpture people" that I was referring to. The problem is that there is not one documented reference for any of their claims:
What company? Who provided this information?
What date? What public hearing was held?
Costly? Easier? Please define.
From the Meeting Minutes: "Village Administrator, John Gross explained that when there was an anticipation of using this grant for the Tony Smith sculpture, at that point in time, the Village was not ready to move forward with it. So, to make sure that the monies were not lost, the Village determined that rather than spend capital money, the $250,000 would be supplanted with the federal grant thereby reducing the obligation for the Arts Center by $250,000 and then commit to use the capital money later on when the budget would actually be moving forward which is now." How is that CLEAR?
See full text of articles above. Not ONE mentions the TAXPAYER cost. etc, etc.... | |||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3140 Registered: 9-2003 |
"Some details about “Tau.” Compared to the gazebo: “Tau” is lower than the gazebo’s roofline and about as wide as the gazebo. " ABOUT as wide? The gazebo is 12'6" wide... by my calculations that makes TAU 8'6" wider than the gazebo. AND - which part of the roofline is it lower than, the peak? I HATE BEING MISLED. | |||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2670 Registered: 5-2004  |
Ms. Arnedt seems to be taking this issue personally. I can understand that. She has put a lot of time and effort into this. However I wish she (and her group) could separate the issues people have with the way the town has handled this (financially and governmentally), and opposition to the sculpture itself. My problem with this is that while the members of the LPMAF are committed to raising these funds, the town has already gone forward with commitments to building it. So if for some reason the LPMAF is NOT able to raise all the funds, the town will still be on the hook. Though I'm not an accountant, I would assume it is very aggressive to book revenue against expenses prior to realizing that revenue. If liability is an issue, plow under the fountain. Otherwise, this is a non-starter. Mr. Gross may have tried to clarify things, but his comments were muddied by the overwhelming set of comments from the uninformed Trustees. As for Trustee Rosner's posts, they were publicly contradicted by other Trustees. Whom should we believe? I wonder how many residents these groups actually represent.While they may be the most active groups, I would hardly say they are representative of the typical resident. Not all the articles were favorable, and most did not address the primary concern of opponents, as MHD points to above. Non-sequitur. By all estimates, it will cost over $400k. That is more than half the cost of a "museum quality" Tau. So yes, it is a fraction. Bu that fraction is anything but a small one. The cost of the fabrication is a small FRACTION of the overall cost to construct and install Tau. This whole paragraph is pointless. Under? Not from the photographs I've seen of people standing next to it. Actually, I guess my 6 year old will be able to walk under it, but I sure as heck won't. And so what? People can stand under the gazebo. Tau might be lower than the gazebo, but the gazebo is not a solid structure. So even if it were much larger than Tau, it has much less of an impact than a large solid structure. How about funding art appreciation classes int eh schools, then?That would do more to promote art education than this. Great. I applaud these efforts. Very few people have called the statue an atrocity. And it is not the statue that anyone has called a source of shame. It is the manner in which it has been handled and foisted upon the residents. Do people REALLY believe this? Really? This documentary will probably bring more business to the town than the statue itself. Though I guess the installers will need to eat lunch and have a beer at the Gaslight. Very impressive. Perhaps a lesser known fabricator might be cheaper? Once. Great. I'm truly curious about this, and it's been repeated so often I think people believe it just because it is said so much. What makes South Orange an arts community? Can someone clarify this for me? The "hazard posed by the fountain can be remediated without spending $410k. I cannot imagine a 21 foot wide statue will improve the pedestrian ingress and egress from the underpass. In fact, I thought he main entrance to SOPAC (and much of the parking) was going to be in on the other side of the tracks? To summarize, I feel as if the TSSP is grasping at straws, trying to justify this. And to be honest, if I were not paying over $20k in taxes, and if our town hall and library were in better shape, I might be in favor of this sculpture in another part of the town. But to me, it's the wrong statue, in the wrong place, at the wrong fiscal time. | |||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 521 Registered: 6-2005 |
________________________________________________________________________________ _______ Quote from the sculpture people document: 3. There has been significant public outreach and dissemination of information. Since 2002, project volunteers have done a wide range of community outreach. Prior to approaching the Tony Smith Estate, the LPMAF reached out to the boards/members of Main Street South Orange, NJ Transit, the Village government, The Village Club, the Montrose Park Historic District Association, SOPAC, the local historic preservation group as well as the New Jersey State Historic Preservation Office to introduce ourselves, lay out our plan of action and get feedback. ________________________________________________________________________________ ______________ This hardly constitutes a poll which Ms Arnedt (a self proclaimed pollster for CBS/ABC) claimed she did, and which she claimed demonstrated that a "majority of residents of South Orange" favored the project. New fact: No poll has ever been shared with residents...neither the methodology, sample size, nor the results. | |||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 522 Registered: 6-2005 |
Some other facts: 1. No one has come up with a plan for the gazebo, other than demolishing it. There has been no cost figures presented for doing anything else with it. 2. No one has discussed or costed out what to do with the trees currently surrounding the gazebo. 3. No one has explained WHY there will be no cost increase in the town's insurance. If this statue is worth what they say, why would the insurance not increase? What happens if a car plows into it? Or if it gets graffittied up? Would it still be worth the same? Would the town have to have it repaired, or refabricated? At whose cost? | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3692 Registered: 5-2001 |
In case there is any question that there is OPPOSITION to spending tax dollars for the sculpture ACROSS THE ENTIRE TOWN, here is a visualization of all addresses that have "signed" the petition, so far (with duplicate signatures DELETED): http://www.batchgeocode.com/map/?i=8a2be27988db29c22c41459fe2ee4ea4 | |||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2673 Registered: 5-2004 |
Geek! | |||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 711 Registered: 5-2004  |
Very interesting graphic, MHD! (I bet there will be more before tonight's meeting!) | |||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9014 Registered: 4-1997  |
If our insurance premium won't increase after the addition of an estimated $700,000 piece of artwork that costs a few hundred thousand in addition to install, doesn't it appear that we're currently overpaying for insurance? | |||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 167 Registered: 2-2006 |
Good point, Dave. I asked several questions about replacement cost versus valuation, highly debatable areas in insurance. They are buried in the archives somewhere, but add them to the list of unanswered questions. So cool graphic, bee. You've been busy. | |||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3141 Registered: 9-2003 |
 I guess you're all as bad at geometry as I am.. or you don't care about the details. However, someone does so.. CORRECTION: TAU is 21' gazebo is 12.6'.. BUT on the diagonal, it is 17.8' or "about" as wide as TAU Sorry for MISLEADING you with my previous post. At least I own up to it. | |||
| Mau No Tau Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 362 Registered: 6-2005  |
In other words, it eclipses the gazebo. Does it appeal to you anymore knowing this or is our sentiment so fixed on a tragic loss if it is not placed on Sloan and hence lost by way of gift giving from the Smith family? If those are the conditions, please tell the Smith's, no thank you. | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3694 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rastro - being called a geek by YOU is quite an honor.  I will update the graphic again when we hit 100 unique signatures. (It's actually suprisingly easy) | |||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 381 Registered: 7-2005  |
FACT-The sculpture is unnecessary. | |||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2005 |
FACT - We don't have the money... | |||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 800 Registered: 5-2001 |
That gazebo is pretty nice anybody got dibs on it yet? If not I call it. | |||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 235 Registered: 1-2006 |
I asked first, weeks ago. And the town has not replied. jd | |||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4516 Registered: 1-2004  |
Fact is we do NOT WANT OR NEED this 'gift!' I say we sue Arnet and her group as well as the BOT for all the LIES!!! Wasn't there a quote if this thing wasn't put on Sloan Street the Smith family would take it back right? Well, let them take it back... | |||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 382 Registered: 7-2005 |
Maybe they can hollow it out and turn it into a freakin' sw33t piece of playground equipment...like a giant playhouse or something. | |||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2681 Registered: 5-2004 |
What do you want to sue the private fund raise committee for? | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3702 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have updated the webpage depicting the location of all petition signatures to-date: http://www.batchgeocode.com/map/?i=086ef6b7210f6933ec278f350adbad07 Unfortunately, there is a limitation of 100 addresses, so I have only displayed UNIQUE addresses. I have also added TAU to the map. See if you can find it & see how it looms large over the town. | |||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 181 Registered: 2-2006 |
Cool, bee. Could you make the dots solid red? (Too much white from the roads.) | |||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 249 Registered: 1-2006 |
from a 1998 MOMA description of the "little known artist" Antony Smith original still on petition thread. There's nothing on record, as far as I know, to link him to his mentor Wright's notorious sympathy for Hitler and fascism. But some of Smith's doodles and offhand remarks give one pause. One of the drawings on view at MoMA is a diagram of the races, with the Jews identified as "circumscised [sic] cut off from Earth." In another drawing, from 1943, Smith develops his personal symbol, the "spiral cross," which is really nothing but a relaxed swastika. Traveling in Germany after the war he felt an uneasy admiration for Hitler's Haus der Kunst exhibition hall in Munich "As you may have guessed," he wrote to the painter Barnett Newman, "the thing as a whole was very like the church [design] I sent you"--and for Albert Speer's gigantic stadium at Nuremberg. Such remarks inspire Storr's rather defensive observation that "unlike fascist art and architecture, Smith's sculptures and buildings were insistently built to human rather than superhuman scale." We really need this guy's metal in town. jd | |||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4545 Registered: 1-2004 |
Rastro Why do I think we should sue Ardnet and her group? For the way she's misrepresentation of numerous things. This has cost the taxpayers a lot of money. | |||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2694 Registered: 5-2004 |
But it is hte responsibility of the BOT to determine the validity of the numbers. We could get up in front of the trustees and tell them that we've polled half the town,.a nd that they all agreed that Tau was a waste of taxpayer money. They would not believe us, because they want to believe that they are doing a good thing. And Ms. Arnedt is giving them the material to believe it. I tihnk the residents would have a tough time suing individuals or a community group for this. Better to throw out the board members for failing to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilties. | |||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 716 Registered: 5-2004 |
As my father-in-law says, "The fish stinks from the head!" Who will we elect as our next President? | |||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 508 Registered: 1-2004  |
Rastro, they will pander to whomever they think represents campaign contributions and votes. | |||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2704 Registered: 5-2004 |
Howard, I have no doubt. | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3752 Registered: 5-2001 |
Good article in today's News Record about the issue - with quotes from Howard Levison & John Perkert. Also a "Letter to the Editor" was printed "against" the project. If I can get my scanner working, I'll add the article to this archive. | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3775 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jonathan - read this thread. | |||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 284 Registered: 1-2006 |
MHD: If he is not reading this thread, how is your request going to get to him? jd | |||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 545 Registered: 6-2005 |
So, let's examine these costs. The village enters into a contract for fabrication. I guess we taxpayers will pay the fabricator the $90,000. Now it gets sticky. Who negotiates for the other slices of the pie? The Pierro Foundation or the village? Can and shouldn't the village put these "slices" out for bid? Who is managing the project money, some of which is ours, some of which the sculpture people are raising but which will go toward a community entity? Will the sculpture people give over their raised funds to the village administrator to dole out for the various "slices"? Have they turned over the $60,000 raised so far? And also, can someone tell me why we need irrigation at the site. And why new furniture? There are loads of benches around there? And why would anyone want to sit there and contemplate Tau close-up. And as far as structural dirt is concerned, doesn't the dirt which is there hold up a several ton testle and train. How heavy is this thing? Or will the underground river pose an additional problem once excation starts? | |||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1142 Registered: 5-2003 |
Maybe we could drop it into the river. | |||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3781 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lizzie, Actually, we should probably pave the roads & sidewalks with it, since THAT is where the BOT now claims the money is coming from - bonds for sidewalks & roads! http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=572944#POST5729 44 Glock was exactly right on the other thread - pave the roads and fix the sidewalks first. The Village taxpayers went into debt for sidewalks & roads, not a sculpture. Does anyone out there feel our roads & sidewalks are in pristine condition & don't need any further repair? | |||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 105 Registered: 5-2005 |
Surely this must be a red flag raiser? I would have thought that if it is meant to be for roads, it will be for roads, if it is meant to be for sidewalks it would be for sidewalks. I can see that if more roads need repairing, they may divert some funds from sidewalks and vice versa, but for the life of me, I can't see how a sculpture can be construed as something that can be walked or driven on. It also leaves me wondering which of our roads and sidewalks are NOT going to get attended to as the funds that were allocated, are no longer available... |
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