| Author | Message | ||
     Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 682 Registered: 1-2006  |
I used to start my MOL readings in the S.O. section, because it's where I live. Lately, reading it has just been so depressing. It's my last thread to check when I'm bored, then I wish I hadn't. I like South Orange. I ride my bike to a playground and my son plays with kids from all different kinds of families. I see houses that have been neatly landscaped and maintained. The gaslights are really cool at night. Anyone else happy? J.B. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4897 Registered: 1-2004  |
J.B. The baseball teams looked great getting their pictures taken tonight! | ||
| papayagirl Citizen Username: Papayagirl Post Number: 545 Registered: 6-2002  |
You know, i don't check into this board all that often since i live in Maplewood, but when i do lately, i always come away wondering how anyone in South Orange even has the will to live. I'm sure there are many great things about living there, and the purpose of this particular board is not to sell anybody on the positive merits of the town. But it's made me a little sad. Anyway, i'll add that we think Bunny's has the best pizza for many miles, and it's kid friendly to boot, which makes us a very happy family! | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 686 Registered: 1-2006 |
YES! Bunny's, Arugala, Village Cellar, Papillion, Neicy's (sort of), Cait and Alley's, Cold Stone, Reservior.... J.B. Village Diner, coming soon...  | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2006 |
This board paints a horrible picture of South Orange. Anyone who wanted to move here, and read this, would bolt. And I wouldn't blame them. I'm new to town, and love it. I have the optimism that many here seem to have lost. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2005 |
Thanks to a select small group of posters, anyone who reads this and still buys here would have to be nuts. The negativity shown here about every single thing, from artwork (various places) to stores, trains, people, services, schools, library, etc. are all is totally depressing but more frightenly, garaunteed to drive down property values. Reading this thread makes me almost sorry I moved here (but then I get out into the real village and see the homes and people and look forward to the pool and the new SOPAC and feel a lot better) | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2990 Registered: 5-2004  |
There are lots of great things about this town. But, like the evening news, people are more interested in the bad news. People here do love the town. They might not like the administration, or the pace of redevelopment, but we love the town. Personally, I love the people. The most quaint town can suck if your neighbors aren't worthwhile. I love that I can get to work in the city easily. I love that I can get away from town (and the city) easily. I love the restaurants, including Bunny's (though I don't like Bunny's pizza - heresy, I know). I love that I can participate in our town government from the comfort of my home. Most towns don't give you that option. I love that my neighbors are, in general, thinking, caring people who have opinions, are willing to share them, and as long as you don't talk about national politics, you can find something about which you agree. | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2006 |
And truth be told - their property value has most likely doubled in the last 5 years. And they're miserable. I wish I could be that miserable. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2993 Registered: 5-2004 |
Cali, part of that is due to the blief that property values have risen in spite of, not because of, the administration. I believe property values will be much better when the redevelopment is well under way, when the problem projects are in control,m and when there is a real plan for the town. Of course it will happen eventually. It's the pace that kills people's enthusiasm. Every single person that posts negative things about the town can find many positive things to say about SO (barring one, whose nickname could be Dick). There's not controversy, and therefore little discussion, about the positives in town. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9334 Registered: 4-1997  |
It's a great town with a few corrupt leaders from the old days still pretending to know more than they do, still stretching the truth whenever they can, still trying to misappropriate public money, still defending nepotism. Eliminate them and imagine how really great it could be. We can enjoy the good and criticize the bad at the same time. Same deal with national politics. | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 689 Registered: 1-2006 |
Cali6buff, Welcome! I too am new to town. I used to post on threads about the towns that "South Orange is the best and Maplewood is cool only because of it's association with South Orange." I was just psyched to be here. I got a P.L message to tone it down. But, I think we need more South Orange boosterism. There's new blood in town. We're discussing the town, WE VOTE (make sure you're registered.) and we're going to make it better. I'm not planning on moving anytime soon, so I say let's renovate this town, Orange is working on its situation. We should support the renaissaince in Newark, etc. East Orange, well... J.B. | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 822 Registered: 5-2001 |
There is only negativity I see consistently on this board is about one thing, and that is the BOT, the decisions it makes, and the way it makes those decisions. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1547 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hey, I love this town, am deeply committed to it, and talk it up to friends looking for housing. I've written it in more detail before, and don't have time to write it again tonight. If you are looking for a super place to live, look here. South Orange and Maplewood are amazing places (albeit expensive!). However, we also have some real problems in town, and this board is one of the few places where they get discussed. Until we get the BOT and town administration that we deserve, MOL will continue to be one of the homes of the loyal opposition. The restaurant reviews, kid play ideas, home advice, etc. get put in sections other than S.O. Specific. What gets put here is the discussions that are specific to our town government, and right now, that isn't a pretty picture. But it is a small percent of what matters to someone looking for a home. Thoughtful readers and potential homeowners will sort through the many kinds of information here, and make their own decisions. The day that we lose our passion for posting here, discussing what is right and wrong in S.O. and how to improve it is the day when I'll start worrying about the impact on property values. (the houses for sale on our street are now being offered at over 3x what we paid 10 years ago...and the people leaving are leaving for personal reasons that have nothing to do with S.O. politics) | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 691 Registered: 1-2006 |
YEEEEESSSS! We know!!!! J.B. | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 |
Good news isn't news. I get it. I won't judge the negative posters. I just have not been here long enough. But I can tell you this. I moved here because of things like SOPAC, and pools, and the "holes" in the ground. I could see the potential. Is that in spike of the BOT, or because of them. Tough call. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2996 Registered: 5-2004 |
After a while here, you'll realize it is not a tough call at all. But I don't want to be negative on this thread. I love the potential this town has, too. I hope I am able to afford to live here when it realizes its potential. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2006 |
One thing that I really noticed is that many of the discussions are one sided. For example, regarding Tau, I made a few positive remarks and a whole group of individuals piled in on top of me. Some of the attacks were quite personal. Then I noticed most of the comments were negative. When I asked around town, quite a few people characterized MOL as a groupee situation consisting of people who really like to talk to each other and themselves. These people have driven away anyone who doesn't agree with the nay sayers. Because I am planning to move back to Maplewood and move a business to the area, I have been in considerable contact with many individuals of the area. The real South Orange and Maplewood are just fine. The only reason I have for moving back is that Maplewood has become more like the town I want to live in. When I grew up here and went to Columbia High, this was a white anglo town. I never felt at home in my home town. Now, I have concluded that this is the place for me. When I hear people complain on cost of taxes in Maplewood and SO, I laugh because right now the family lives in Beverly Hills. All of Los Angeles Conty is expensive with maybe property taxes. But we have lots of other taxes that make up for it. New Jersey always foolishly relied on property taxes. + I am planning to move 25 employees to NJ. If I expect them to make the change from sunny California, I can't tell them about MOL. I wonder why not. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9335 Registered: 4-1997 |
You could move somewhere where there were issues didn't see the light of day and you only learn about them after the fact. I know a lot of people who found SO/M through MOL and had this sentiment. Show me a community with a controlled positive message coming from a PR firm and I'll show you a bad place to live. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2997 Registered: 5-2004 |
If you really believe they are one-sided here, pop over to the soapbox and political sections. Read the education section. There is lots of argument, with little consensus. Many agree that there are problems with our government, and that affects many parts of our lives in town. but again, I love it here. I love that I can walk to town or to a park with my kids and have strangers (and not so strangers) say hi to us with a smile. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2006 |
Dave, I agree with you. I'm in the visual arts and am use to many views even negative ones. But let's not considered that you have a balanced cross section of views on MOL. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9336 Registered: 4-1997 |
I think most perspectives are represented here. Eg., we have pro-Tau and anti-Tau and people who have been on both sides based on what facts came out when. Like with any media the extremes are usually overrepresented. People will find what they seek. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 631 Registered: 6-2005 |
South Orange is one of the very few places in NJ that doesn't have that typical suburban sprawl feel. If you love architecture and the variation in types of housing, as well as proximity to NYC, the airport, the shore, shopping, etc., you can't beat it. These are some of the reasons people live here and why I live here. Its the politicians who have done a miserable job of running this village. Ten years with a bombed out Shop Rite shell as the centerpiece of town. Fiscal irresponsibility. Cronyism. People holding multiple paid positions in the governement without checks and balances. A Village President who thinks this is his personal fiefdom. I for one am thankful for MOL for creating the social activism that was latent in me for too long. It is the most positive thing about South Orange that I've seen in my many years living here. Things will only get better as a result of it. | ||
| Bailey Citizen Username: Baileymac Post Number: 276 Registered: 3-2005 |
I've lived in town for 35 years, raised 3 kids here. I love this town and see its potential, but like many, I'm frustrated that the downtown construction is taking too long. I've worked in construction-related engineering, been involved in every type of construction project, and I've never seen such slow progress. We're only recently able to vent that sense of frustration here on MOL, and right or wrong, the blame falls on the apparent inablilty of our elected officials to get things moving, whatever their reasons are. One day SOPAC will be operating and bring us great entertainment, we'll have figured out where to park, and our empty lots will be filled. In the meantime, we have a charming town filled with beautiful homes, some wonderful neighbors, and good restaurants. I remain optimistic, in part BECAUSE of the people who post here on MOL. I feel they too are venting, because they want our downtown fixed now. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4008 Registered: 5-2001  |
We also moved here because of the promise of "Coming Soon"....that was 8 years ago. Since living here, we have met amazing people from all walks of life and love being so close to NYC, the airport and our families. However, like everyone else above has said, we are extremely frustrated with the perpetual lies like "Coming Soon" and "no tax dollars will be spent on Tau" that are spewed by our government which is more motivated by political self-interest than what is best for the community. There have been plenty of other threads here discussing the positives of South Orange (pool, Bunny's, houses, people etc) and there are plenty of threads across MOL where I ask for advice & share advice with neighbors about everything under the sun. For anyone who complains about the "negativity", I suggest you attend or watch a single BOT Meeting and watch how disrespectfully and arrogantly residents are treated. That makes MOL look like a giant Love Fest. | ||
| Kitchenguru Citizen Username: Kitchenguru Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2005 |
Lots of people stop reading the posts on this board because it's too negative and repetitive. The same people monopolize it with the same sentiments over and over. Can anyone tell me what, if anything, has been accomplished by this? Maybe some of this town bashing can be taken up in a different forum. I know I am thrilled to live here and as soon as I find a house with an attached garage I will be moving to my fifth house here. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3282 Registered: 9-2003 |
Kitchen - my sentiments are quite similar to Bailey's. I've lived here 35 years too. I remember what a wonderful town we used to have - one could buy anything from a designer dress to kid's cloths, to interesting gifts, to a window shade. We know the potential and it frustrates people like us that things have been so mis-managed and that very few people seem to care (if they did, they'd go to board meetings, or at the very least get out and vote.) MOL has given people a voice - not many of us attend the BOT meetings or watch them. This board allows people like Spitz and MHD to keep us informed. Neither, to my knowledge, has ever bashed the town.. the government, however, is a whole other sad story. | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2006 |
Everyone's heart is in the right place. There is no arguing that. It's the methods, not the message. MHD - I've watched the meetings, and the residents are as much to blame as the BOT. When you show up wearing boxing glove, you should expect a fight. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1548 Registered: 3-2002 |
So Cali6buff, since you are new here and don't like our style, please give us your advice on how to use this board as a tool for public information and social change while using methods that you would approve of. I'm being serious, not sarcastic. I think that this board is both very important and often negative, reflecting the political problems that we have here in town. If I have to choose between a town booster site and a place for public debate, I'll choose the latter -- MOL has made be a better citizen and more informed voter, as frightening as that may sound (and no, I don't believe everything I read). I believe that if this town ever changes, it will be in part because of the energies nourished here. What do you suggest as a way of maintaining the message while moderating the methods? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 356 Registered: 2-2006 |
About "negativity" and "balance" of perspectives. I'd rather have the truth than either of these. Some perspectives are insidious, even evil. They are a bad influence anywhere, especially in a great little town. Why not fight to keep harm at bay? Don't you do it for your children or family? Why not your town? Should we follow Neville Chamberlain's example and "respect" the views of someone like Hitler because it is a "different perspective"? Things aren't nearly that bad in SO, but the suggestion that all views are equal is patently false, even though many of the wrong kind of people want everyone to believe it. Frederick Schmid, the day artists and those supposedly representing the interests of art stand up for truth in public affairs is a day SO will be vastly improved over what it is at present. While some are doing this now, those claiming to represent the interests of art in the public arena are neither the best proponents for art the town can produce, nor are they exemplars for how people should treat one another in town. Why should anyone, including self-appointed defenders of art in a small town, adhere to a standard that debases the commonweal of the entire town? Their personal loves and endeavors don't exempt them from ethical standards that apply to the whole town, despite what anyone may think to the contrary. Maybe when you arrive in the area you can do a better job of defending the common goals of art and honesty in public discourse and civic affairs. If so, welcome; we await with hopeful expectation the benefit of your contributions. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 444 Registered: 1-2006 |
I moved here fifteen years ago. Since then downtown has slid into ruin, pushed by the Calabrese run board of trustees, with legal work by Mr. Mathews. The interesting deal with Heller's Lokomotiv business to take over Sloan Street, at our expense, denial to Shop Rite of approval to build on 3rd street, PILOTs for the asking, razing Beifus, losing the 3rd street gas station, losing Town Hall Deli to a bank, and watching cinder blocks across from Home Liquor age for the new THD, the destruction of the beautiful shops on Vose, and remaining crater, removal of the rug store, replaced with a contaminated fill boarded up site, hearing that the village president is in business with a local developer, but refuses to us what the deals are, watching him on internet tell a board that he has interest in a Beifus deal, then say so what, waching the boards covering the shop rite windows rot from prolonged exposure to the elements, reading the graffiti in the walls of that building, reading the promo banner in the site and noticing nothing at all about a food market, and agreeing in part with the phrase on the banner "laugh at" the project. I only have so much time to investigate what a few board members can and have done to the village. On balance, the board as it is currently run, has brought ruin to the downtown area, without any shame, or regrets. It is the collective pattern of arrogance and hubris which compels some of us to point out that the emperors wear no clothes, and downtown is fifty percent ruined. For now. Oh, what a good investigative journalist would do with what they have done. jd | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4009 Registered: 5-2001 |
So, Joel - on the POSITIVE side, they have only ruined 50 percent, right?  | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3869 Registered: 5-2001  |
Sounds like what this town needs is a no-nonsense, take-no-prisoners, tell-it-like-it-is type of nitty-gritty alternative newspaper, run by a crusading editorial staff obsessed with truthiness, and brimming with righteous, hard-hitting, throw-da-bums-out indignation. ...And I'll do the restaurant reviews! -s. | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 142 Registered: 9-2005  |
I concur with the statements put forth by JayJay & MHD. We moved here 14 years ago from Hoboken after an exhaustive search (90+) for a home in Maplewood, SO & Montclair. We choose SO for a number of reasons – I grew up in central NJ and was aware this community and the posh reputation SO had in the 70s. One ride through the community with the natural gas lights and quality of the housing stock and you come away with the feeling that this is the kind of place I wanted to raise a family. In addition my best friend from college had moved here with his family in the mid 80s and I thought this must be the place. My immediate family and more conservative friends tried to dissuade me. Attempting to add historical context of what became of Orange, East Orange and Irvington once also attractive communities. This was even exasperated by the 1st house insurance salesman who after I stated I was contemplating a move to SO and required a insurance quote tried to convince me that I was making a mistake and I should be looking in Roseland instead? This just made me increase my due diligence I was looking for the negative to help support their contentions. We bought in January 1994 and were really the beginning of a new wave of families that have been migrating from Manhattan, Hoboken, Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope and Jersey City. We were still connected to NYC and wanted a decent place to raise our future family. We are now in the position with our mortgage ending in July to sell out at a 4X increase and money set aside to start again if we so desire. Or we can dig in our heals and looking at the community as a whole , unique , diverse, progressive and filled with many bright talented people and try to make this place live up to the potential that we envisioned when we first purchased our house. We both love living in SO, after having being asked to run for local office I had a crash course on the local issues. What was apparent was there are many interest groups that historically have kept a tight control over local government. These groups are interested in keeping their constituency satisfied at the cost of the average taxpayer who they view as an unlimited source of capital since most of them will be long gone when the check comes due. My hope and dreams are that with the influx of all the new families over the last 5 -10 years that the days of political incompetence and lack of accountability are coming to an end. It’s unfortunate that this frustration is reflected by a negative taint in many blogs on MOL but activism has to start somewhere this appears to be one of the few outlets. My college friend took his family and moved to Livingston - we on the other hand thrive on the intellectual stimulation of like minded individuals we have encountered in SO & MAplewood over the years, our children are thriving here and this is indeed home - even with the temporary political shortcomings. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3871 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nice post timing, Politicalmon... When my family moved here in 1986 from the Upper West Side, (lose the tired rhetoric about "exhaustive searches", "seeking a diverse, real-world, commutable community", etc, and cut to the bottom line...) we did so without being sold on any "coming soon" development or BOT "visions". We liked what we saw and whom we met, and decided to make it our home. That was then, and this is now. I'm still very glad we moved to South Orange. -s. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2005 |
Quadrupling your investing in 14 years with money left over?? Sounds like South Orange was a good investment. Hope I do as well! political incompetence and lack of accountability are coming to an end. If that kind of double digit ROI is the result of what you said above, bring it on. | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 363 Registered: 8-2001 |
I do not understand the comment "I hope I can still afford to live here when SO reaches its full potential." You already bought the house and the taxes are what they are, they always go up but a good portion of the "potential" we're discussing here involve commercial ratables which would bring income to the town to actually alleviate some of the tax burden... or at least offset the increases somewhat. Why exactly wouldn't you be able to afford to live here, assuming you still have a source of income greater than your expenses? I for instance could not afford to BUY my house if I had to right now. But I can certainly afford to LIVE in it since I bought it several years ago at a much lower price. | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2006 |
Susan1014: You're may be serious, but you're also antagonistic, and a bit condescending. I assume that your goal is to inform and inspire people to do something about a gov't you see as unfit. New people like me come here every day, and we are bombarded by pessimism. I read virtually every post, in every thread, and they all start with some sort of complaint. (My favorite was the one about the color of the walls in the train station, followed up by the color of the benches in the train station.) And there is nothing inspiring about that. It seems you are more interested in tearing down, then building up. Sound familiar? | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 632 Registered: 6-2005 |
As a new resident, perhaps you are not familiar with the history of the train station, and how NJ Transit "promised" to "restore" the station. I believe that promise was part of the discussion surrounding South Orange becoming a "transit village." In any event, improvements have come in fits and starts. They have finally fixed the staircase which was crumbling. But as for restoration, slapping up a coat of paint is not restoration in my book. And our BOT's seem indifferent. What you see on this board is the result of years of endless promises not kept and the ineptitude of our elected officials. But don't take my word for it. Come to a few BOT's meetings. Witness for yourself. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4013 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cali, How do you feel about the 13% tax increase we are facing this year - largely because the expected revenue from Redevelopment has not happened and the bonds to replace the sidewalks are coming due (yet, the BOT is planning to tear them out again to install a Tony Smith sculpture)? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2751 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jayjay: I take offense at what you call indifference. It is typical of you to paint the full BOT with a wide brush and to never give an ounce of credit to anyone (but yourself). I have had NJ Transit come to a meeting at least once a year. I have begged, pleaded and screamed at them. I had several emails from the former head of NJ transit promising the restoration and the village reviewed the plans. Far from being indifferent. In fact, they have been available to take questions from residents (and I am pretty sure you did not ask a single question). Some residents know that I had someone from NJ transit meet several of us at the station to witness upfront the overcrowded platforms during the middle of rush hour. We also had the construction supervisor meet with several of us to review the plans and to hear some of our concerns regarding the construction. I agree that this is not the complete restoration that was promised it has certainly been more than just a coat of paint (as anyone who has been in the station can see that they ripped off the old plaster and repaired where the major water damage occurred. Plus they completely built the second street steps, repaired the S. Orange ave steps, redid the roofs, gutters and finally made the station handicapped accessible. At this point, it is clear the state and NJ Transit have severely cut their budget and it is going to be some time before we get them back to finish what they called phase 3 (mostly working on the concrete railing, the retaining walls and the balance of the interior repairs). We have also followed up with the repairs to mountain station. I do have to give a lot of credit to Amy Dahn for her efforts with mountain station. She is a resident who does not just post on MOL, she actually contacted NJ Transit and the BOT and helped put pressure on them. |
