| Author | Message | ||
     Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 3106 Registered: 7-2002  |
it was just a game of tag that went awry | ||
| something witty Citizen Username: Buckneja Post Number: 242 Registered: 1-2003  |
There have been a number of incidents involving guns up and down South Orange Ave and the streets surrounding SHU for quite some time. This is probably the first in a while where a gun was actually fired, but I know of several incidents first hand where folks have been held up, even been victims of attempted car jackings, with a gun-brandishing perp. My beef of late has been that we should add brighter and more street lights in this especially dark area; but, oddly enough, the incidents I refer to above have all occurred around 4:30--well before sunset. The need for street lights is moot when it comes to these events... Just my humble 2 cents... | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 851 Registered: 7-2005  |
Since when are Seton Hall students safe on their campus? Their drunken buddies kidnapthem and beat them up. | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 156 Registered: 6-2005 |
I think it is pretty inspiring to hear people chiming in on crime in SO. Not only chiming in but rather submitting ideas and -frankly, sick of it. Simply put, SO is surrounded by depressed areas and many of the kids (in these areas) unfortunately are products of their enviroments thus learning crime is a way of life. You can debate education, parenting etc... but SO has been forced to inherit the results of these mindsets/lifestyles. I agree that a $250-$500k? sculpture may have to be shelved until the BOT addresses keeping SO citizens safe and downtown redevelopemnt healthy (or -at least, on track). I would like the BOT to give the Tony Smith sculpture ($250-$500K) check to the SOPD and say "spend it on whatever helps your crew." Those of you who know these guys/gals would agree they are passionate about their jobs and really give a hoot. I honestly believe the money would be well spent and would not go towards their personal financial investments (gain) but rather doing -even better, of a job. | ||
| Dawg Walker Citizen Username: Deyki Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2006 |
show a little concern and remove the thread or the racist posts on it! | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 381 Registered: 10-2005  |
Why not understand Sean Flood's comments to be about class, not race? Did anyone mention race? | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 157 Registered: 6-2005 |
Dawg, hope that wasn't thwarted towards me. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2005 |
Maybe refereing to Mr. Pizzaz's post bad drug deal that took its business to the afrohair salon? | ||
| Dawg Walker Citizen Username: Deyki Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2006 |
there were several comments that appeared racist, and neither Sean's or Pizzaz's was what I noted. read back a bit,you'll figure it out. | ||
| talk-it-up Citizen Username: Talkitup Post Number: 215 Registered: 3-2004 |
Can we take GUN off Flood's Hill now? Art is one thing but really....... It's all getting out of perspective. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4937 Registered: 1-2004  |
Newark man shot to death on S. Orange street Person of same name, age was involved in fatal drug-turf dispute in 1997 Monday, May 08, 2006 BY JULIA M. SCOTT AND KASI ADDISON Star-Ledger Staff A Newark man was shot to death Saturday outside an eatery in South Orange, two blocks from the village police station. Michael Mickle, 32, was standing in front of Cluck-U Chicken on South Orange Avenue just before 5 p.m. when a man ran up behind him and fired several shots before jumping into a burgundy van and driving off, said Charlotte Smith, a spokeswoman for the Essex County Prosecutor's Office. Mickle was pronounced dead at University Hospital in Newark. The shooting occurred just steps from a neighborhood park filled with families and one block from Seton Hall University. Officials said they are investigating whether Mickle knew his killer and if he was with anybody else when he was killed. Authorities didn't release Mickle's date of birth, but a Newark man of the same name and age was among a group of men, including gang leader David Allen, involved in the murder of a 17-year-old boy in a drug-turf dispute in 1997. Allen, whom authorities claim is the leader of the "9 Tre Gangster" set of the Bloods street gang, was convicted in 2001 of killing Terrence Hines and is serving a life sentence in prison. A man named Michael Mickle, born Dec. 4, 1973, pleaded guilty to conspiring with Allen to kill Hines and was sentenced to eight years in prison. Hines was chased and shot to death after failing to heed warnings not to sell drugs on a street corner in Newark's South Ward that was under Allen's control, said a prosecutor at Allen's sentencing. Homicides are rare in South Orange, home to 16,788 residents. There were seven homicides in the village from 1989 to 2004, according to State Police Uniform Crime Reports. South Orange is a quaint town and you don't expect shootings or other violent crimes to happen, said resident Joe Buckner. "It doesn't surprise you but it is disappointing when it happens this close to home," he said. "Why is it that important to take somebody's life?" Willie Carri, who has lived in South Orange for four years, agreed. "I don't like hearing that kind of stuff but I'm not naive," he said, while watching his son play at Grove Park, within a block of the shooting. "Something like that can happen anywhere." Mickle was shot in a small commercial district less than a mile from the village's downtown area. A mix of residents and Seton Hall students patronize the video store, barber shop, liquor store and the various eateries along South Orange Avenue. Apartments are located above the storefronts. Dogukan Muezzinler lives around the corner from where the shooting took place. "At home there is a low crime rate, so this very unusual for me," said Muezzinler, a graduate student from Cyprus studying at the university. "I could not believe it." Though disturbed, Buckner still took his daughter to Grove Park yesterday to play baseball. "It seems like an isolated incident," he said. "It's a nice town with good schools and good people." | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1525 Registered: 4-2004  |
Cmonty- So we have enough cops? Maybe too many? No way. Having more available means more per shift and extra to man specialized units like traffic and anti-crime, like there used to be years ago. If every tour rolls out the bare minimum and half are tied up at any given time on calls, reports and meals, the chances are that little will be deterred. If special units were available to be deployed in prime areas, or walking patrols and store cars were used during peak hours, criminals would think twice and go elsewhere. SOPD does a great job, but all the increases I posted above indicate more work for the same number of people. And just like the "Broken Windows" adage posted in other threads, if a neighborhood looks soft and unattended to it will become attractive for criminals. Despite the vigilance of you and your canine charges. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1300 Registered: 10-2004  |
But Cops cant be everywhere. An incident like the one posted by JTA from the ledger shows that this was probably a long time in the making. If it turns out this guy was a gangster with plenty of people willing to take revenge then there is nothing that one two or even 10 extra cops could have done. It appears to be a brazen assassination possibly for revenge. If you want to root out this type of incident then the cause of the incident needs to be eliminated. Build up our surrounding towns, educate and give incentives to the poor not to join gangs and deal drugs, take the guns off the street, and then you can have an environment where you wont see these types of incidents occur. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1613 Registered: 9-2004  |
Was it robbery at the liquor store, or a bad drug deal that took its business to the afro hair salon? I think we all have a right to know. Oh, and Stacey if this is the changing demographics you refer to - then you can certainly kiss my white •••. Wow! OUTRAGEOUS!!! I'll think TWICE about buying from Bunny's! Getting back to topic… seems that this shooting was in retaliation from a previous incident dating back to '97. If this is the same guy involved (Mickle) they did say he served jailed time of 8 years, SOMEONE was ready for him. This shooting could've happened in Union, Irvington, Newark etc. This guy was stalked and the perps picked the moment. He was probably buying chicken at Cluck-U. Pretty bold to SHOOT someone 2 blocks from the police station. Thank goodness no one else was injured in this unfortunate incident. | ||
| NORA Citizen Username: Norav Post Number: 154 Registered: 6-2004  |
"Thank goodness no one else was injured in this unfortunate incident." Hello.... some poor guy walking out of a business was shot in the knee | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1813 Registered: 12-2003  |
Brett writes: "Cmonty- So we have enough cops? Maybe too many? No way." Where did I say we have too many, or even enough, cops? What I wrote was: "More police on the streets is never a bad thing, but it too often becomes the only thing." More specific to this incident, I was pointing out that the site of this shooting is probably among the best patrolled locations in town, and the patrols are indeed frequent. I really doubt that tripling the number of police officers on the streets of South Orange would have stopped this shooting. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1526 Registered: 4-2004 |
I disagree, Montgomery. Having the surplus manpower to devote to business areas, parks and other areas based on crime analysis is exactly how such incidents are deterred. High visibility and proactive enforcement. Again, the work volume has increased substantially and the workforce has not kept pace. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9378 Registered: 4-1997  |
Just a general remark to anyone posting: Probably not a good idea to post information that could identify a witness. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14122 Registered: 1-2003  |
I assume the police are pretty conspicuous in that area. The shooter either didn't care about how likely he was to encounter the police or forgot to consider it. If either of those is true, an increased police presense might not help deter crimes like this. | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 146 Registered: 9-2005  |
Adding more police with healthcare, bloated pension plans and liberal benefits would have immediate and long term fiscal liability to a town with taxes already out of control. In addition this would have not prevented this unfortunate and senseless act of violence. Think out of the box Wireless (WiFi) SOHO based Internet security cameras are inexpensive and on the market. If local government had the insight to talk with Verizon and Cablevision to provide free internet access (Verizon building gets a huge real estate tax reduction from the state & Cablevision who receives incentives to do business in town) and install these cameras in area that need monitoring (train station - commuter parking lot - commercial districts - strategically placed in high traffic streets) and monitored remotely via the Internet at the police station or in the patrol car. If something like this was in place we would now have visual evidence of who committed the crime and the type and make of the car. Part of the reason random crime like this occurs in broad daylight is because the criminal element knows that the police can not be everywhere at any given time - especially on a Sunday afternoon. This technology is cheap and will act as a deterrent, could only assist officers who race to a scene with added vision in time of distress. And the best part is that they don't contribute to long term tax liability. This technology applied correctly would actually help improve police efficiency since locations that require police to visually inspect frequently could be replaced with a camera so that the officers could have a larger visual presence in historically higher crime areas or reallocate resources that would be freed up by the use of such cameras. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2005 |
This is very disturbing. Not only the shooting but also the reaction of many on this board to try and explain it away as a "random event" that could have happened anywhere. No, it couldn't have happened anywhere. It happened in SO. This was the same reaction to the carjacking at the car wash on Irvington Avenue and the hold up of three girls on Wyoming Avenue, which have all occurred in the last 4 months or so. When body parts were found on SO Avenue people on this board were almost desperate to say they were found 10 feet beyond SO's border. Let's face it: WE HAVE A GROWING VIOLENT CRIME PROBLEM. It can't be explained or wished away, no matter how bad we want to. We've got to start doing something now. I for one will be contacting each member of the BOT on this and the issue of public safety. It is number one. Forget Tau, forget SOPAC, let's concentrate on public safety. If my taxes go up and the funds are used for public safety, more cops, so be it. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 462 Registered: 1-2006 |
But, with the present Board of Trustees, your, and my, taxes will go up, hugely, and public safety will continue to be ignored. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 463 Registered: 1-2006 |
Ignored by the Board. The police do the best they can. jd | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1616 Registered: 9-2004 |
bettyd, This incident was personal. These perps were adamant on killing this guy for revenge. Again, when the opportunity became available, they shot the guy. SO Avenue unfortunatley, is a main thruway and escape route for the perps to make their getaway. However, a carjacking, and hold-up of the 3 girls is a different story. And the body parts? Sorry, but the police beleive that the crime was committed elsewhere and the reservation was used as a dumping ground. And this was NOT first time for body parts. Several years ago, Russian couple were murdered in Brooklyn and their body parts dumped in the South Mountain Reservation. Politicalmon, I like your idea. I beleive they are using cameras in NYC focusing on high crime areas. This technology is cheap and I beleive will act as a deterrent, since we're so close to urban settings. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 220 Registered: 12-2005 |
Phenix: My point about the body parts was more a commentary on people's reaction to the discovery: I sensed an almost desperate need for posters to reiterate that the parts weren't found in SO but technically just over the border in Millburn. I didn't think that was the big issue and I was personally more disturbed that a person, or persons, with body parts in their car had obviously traveled through SO and dumped them "near" the border with SO. You seem to be relieved that this was somehow personal and a revenge killing. I guess that's better than the perp randomly choosing a victim in SO, but not much. Is that how we're rating our safety now? Maybe this was personal, but that doesn't make me feel much better. What if you had been shopping in one of those stores, or walking by? Or one of your kids? Do you want me to run through the litany of violent crimes that have occurred over the past two years? If it takes cameras, more cops, whatever, let's do it. | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3595 Registered: 11-2001  |
It's outrageous that you can walk into a shop and get a hair cut at 1:00am in the morning. What the heck is that about? Or order food from a counter store at 3:00am and have it delivered. These businesses belong elsewhere if that is how they wish to operate. It's not any more racial than the comment about a change in demographics or the persecution of the Beifus Development team by Teri-Ann and seconded by Stacey. Let's say we agree on issues of apparent markers and a very strong need to enforce business standards and protocol. Other than that, sure I apologize to Stacey and you who take offense to my comments. That's all folks, I'm out of this thread.... | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3034 Registered: 5-2004  |
Outrageous? Really? Why is it outrageous to serve people at non-traditional hours? Is it any more outrageous to provide a haircut at 1am than it is to sell someone a beer at that same time? | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3409 Registered: 5-2001  |
Which store or food stores offer services in the middle of the night as Pizzaz describes? I must be missing the reference. I thought we had rules in S.O. about late night openings which is why even our Blockbuster has to close earlier than many others. I know in New Brunswick there are pizza parlors that are open most of the night and deliver to the Rutgers campus till 4 am or so. Maybe these places here cater to my favourite Seton Hall crowd? But how is that related to this shooting? Didn't it happen at 4:30 in the afternoon?? | ||
| Erin Cartman Citizen Username: Carnac Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2005  |
Yeah that was the part I did not get. All of this happen in the afternoon..... None of Pizzaz's comments made sense to me.... You know, it was easier when crimes like this "were swept under the rug."  | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9381 Registered: 4-1997 |
Just a guess: businesses that are open at 3am are selling more than they advertise | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1619 Registered: 9-2004 |
@ Nancy & Erin DITTO to your comments. I thought we had ordinances in this town on shops being open at a specific hours. I don't know what the hay Pizzaz is talking about. This incident happened in the afternoon. Perhaps it is safer buying beer than getting a haircut at 1:00 am? OUTRAGEOUS!  | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4938 Registered: 1-2004 |
I thought it was said Saturday by someone on MOL two people were shot. And wth does this sentence mean? "Homicides are rare in South Orange, home to 16,788 residents. There were seven homicides in the village from 1989 to 2004, according to State Police Uniform Crime Reports." I'd sure like to know why we haven't heard about all those other murders! | ||
| Erin Cartman Citizen Username: Carnac Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2005 |
JTA! They were swept away! REMEMBER! Shhhhhhhhh!  | ||
| NORA Citizen Username: Norav Post Number: 155 Registered: 6-2004 |
maybe Pizzaz, has been hanging in that afro hair salon he likes so much. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 344 Registered: 2-2005 |
I think Pizzazz is refering to the blind eye the town takes to businesses that hold whatever hours they please...Such as the barber shop that remains open to customers, or is a hangout for its owners, like an afterhours club it seems for their friends. Im not sure what they do there, but there is people in there well after 1am on weekends. ElGreco and now Franks on Valley street seem to hold hours well after 2am on some nights...but they are catering to college students. I don't think it applies to this thread but it is worthy of discussion in another thread. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 345 Registered: 2-2005 |
I like the camera idea, but doesn't South Orange already have them...They were just on News 12 talking about them about two weeks ago. Someone would still have to be watching them. | ||
| NORA Citizen Username: Norav Post Number: 156 Registered: 6-2004 |
It's been brought up before and unless the town fixed them they haven't worked in years. I saw the same thing on news 12 so either someone is lying or they fixed them. But last time I inquired they had still been out of service | ||
| Irvington Pirate Citizen Username: Irvingtonpirate Post Number: 74 Registered: 6-2005 |
Glock said - "Since when are Seton Hall students safe on their campus? Their drunken buddies kidnapthem and beat them up." Wow, aren't you the funny man Glock! Truth be known, the Seton Hall campus is very safe. You can check it out on the university website if you don't believe me. Why so bitter towards SHU all the time? What happened, were you rejected or something? | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 856 Registered: 7-2005 |
Haha everyone always suggests that...and they are always wrong... | ||
| Deidra Citizen Username: Deidralynn Post Number: 562 Registered: 6-2004  |
I have always tried to stay away from personal attacks on this board, but I came to this thread solely for information about the incident. Pizzaz has hit an all time LOW!!!!!! The racist comments from Pizzaz disqust me - coming from someone who owns a long standing business in So. Orange! ...and as for the "call" to Stacey, it was completey out of line!!! I WILL NEVER set foot in Bunny's again! I would be too nervous for my family to eat your food. The best way to get back at you is spending my $$$$ elsewhere. Dave, you can delete this post because it speaks to your favoritism by not deleting Pizzaz's post and giving a "time out" for those racist comments! |
