| Author | Message | ||
     Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 892 Registered: 7-2005  |
I'm not saying that a gang related killing is good...personally i feel both people..well one already got it ..have what's coming to them. Black people fighting over turf that they don't even own is rediculous.. I'm saying let's not pick on all of these businesses just because a shooting happened in front of them. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1551 Registered: 4-2004  |
ANY people fighting over turf is ridiculous...and I personally think it should be discouraged by any legal means necessary. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11507 Registered: 5-2001 |
Maplewood is currently having a debate about street cameras. Would street cameras in the block where the murder took place have made a difference? Would the shooter have done it if he knew he was on Candid Camera? Would tapes help the police in solving the case if the shooter/murderer did it at that location anyway? | ||
| combustion Citizen Username: Spontaneous Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2006 |
That's going to be a heated debate. One side, right to privacy (valid). Other side, public area and crime deterrent (also valid). I'd hate to be in the middle of that argument. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 894 Registered: 7-2005 |
This shooter didn't care...cameras or no cameras he would've done it. They already identified him without cameras...so what would the cameras have done? | ||
| stefano Citizen Username: Stefano Post Number: 501 Registered: 2-2002  |
make a conviction easier witnesses can be discredited (you were facing west?... wasn't the sun in your eyes? were you wearing your prescription glasses? etc.) | ||
| tomp Citizen Username: Tomp Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2001 |
Glock: "They already identified him without cameras" I missed that. They know who the shooter was? (All I heard was that they got a vague description of him that could fit almost anybody.) Bettyd: "a thug murdered another thug [...] both were connected with the Bloods." I missed that, too. Where did they say the shooter was also affiliated with the Bloods? Neither the Star-Ledger or News-Record articles had anything to say about the identity of the murderer, beyond speculation that he was a rival gangster. I'm not picking nits; I just want to be clear on the facts of the case. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 237 Registered: 12-2005 |
cmontyburns: We know the shooting happened around 4:30 in the afternoon, not at 1:00 a.m. I was pointing out that I feel the town is becoming more urban and is losing its suburban feel, something I had written in earlier posts long before the shooting. The shooting brought that topic back up for me and I discussed it again, particularly the fact that many on this board bemoan the lack of late night/24 hour establishments of any kind (pre-shooting posts also) in SO. Several people on this particular thread have said they would like a hair cutting place to be open at 1:00 a.m. I guess in the event people feel the need to get a hair cut after the Tonight Show or Letterman ends, they can. I don't think there was a "rumor" that the barber shop was open at 1:00 a.m., although someone may have said he or she has seen people hanging out there late at night/early morning. It was just a bit of thread drift on a related topic of urban/suburban and late night and 24 hour businesses. tomp: I either read that or heard it on the radio, but that was reported. Glock: We love diversity until "those" people come around. Who are you referring to by that comment? The wealthy, well to do druggies from well to do areas as you noted above or someone else? If you are referring to gun toting men or women hell bent on shooting someone in our town or committing violence here, no matter what their affiliation, I certainly don't want them around. If it happened in front of some "expensive" store in Millburn I wouldn't question it-because it happened in Millburn, not SO. If it happens in front of an "expensive" or "non-expensive" store in SO, I question because it's SO. | ||
| tomp Citizen Username: Tomp Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'm pretty sure that nothing about the identity of the shooter has been reported at all, beyond his race, clothing and height, at least not in any of the papers. I thought maybe you or Glock had seen something I missed, but it sounds to me like you're probably just extrapolating a little loosely from what /has/ been reported. (Not that that isn't hard to avoid sometimes.) As I said, I'm just trying to keep the facts straight. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 365 Registered: 2-2005 |
Glock you really come off anti police, and worse reverse racist in in many of your posts. Your stances are confrontational, and most of the time without merit, and you get defensive with irrational points of view. A lot of this is common sense and follows environmental trends. You demand proofs from people who are simply giving a point of view or opinions, and just because yours is different, you cannot demand that we all accept yours as the right point of view. Your point of view is sometimes just argumentative and confrontational. In fact I think I can say you have a chip on your shoulder about police. If a murder happens in Newark or Irvington...the assumption is its drug or gang related...Why?...Past experience. Crime isn't in a vacuum, This murder is based on the following facts. Victim was a black male, identified as a gang member, w/ a violent past. He was shot by another black male in broad daylight. Where is the evil conspriacy against black people? The facts are consistant with a gang murder. There isn't any conspiracy against the barber shop. Just because it lead to a thread drift about store hours(which I said belonged in another thread days ago)...the Police are investigating this vigorously because its a murder. They are taking it seriously because it was a murder in a town that isn't accustomed to gang murders. Where ever that investigation goes it goes, but Mr. mickles, who was probably an enemy to law enforcement is getting plenty of response as a victim, without regard to his past...In my opinion, he probably wasn't an outstanding citizen, and was probably a cold blooded killer himself, but he is getting what every victim deserves, and thats for law enforcement to seek out justice for the victim. Remember in Jersey City when an entire family was murdered violently in their home a year or two ago, and that religious community immediatly claimed it was a biased attack, and they protested, and demanded answers, and made statements to the media that the police did nothing and were not investigating it because they were of a different religion...Turns out like most crimes, it was strickly about a robbery that turned to murder, and the case was closed by Jersey City Police with arrests. | ||
| cfb Citizen Username: Cfb Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2006 |
tomp; If you really need the facts about the case, the prosecutor's office or the police dept would probably be the best source. The question is, are they able to provide this information right now? =============================================================== Does anyone know what happened to the barber shop? I went by there earlier today, and it looked like they were closed. Are they usually closed on Mondays? By the way, has any one heard from Hoops? ================================================================ Hoops; I miss your provocative posts!!! | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 901 Registered: 7-2005 |
There is no such thing as reverse racism. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5050 Registered: 1-2004  |
stefano Witnesses can also easily be silenced. It's happened many times in the past... | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5051 Registered: 1-2004 |
TomP These are from the other thread: Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 6:42 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newark man shot to death on S. Orange street Person of same name, age was involved in fatal drug-turf dispute in 1997 Monday, May 08, 2006 BY JULIA M. SCOTT AND KASI ADDISON Star-Ledger Staff A Newark man was shot to death Saturday outside an eatery in South Orange, two blocks from the village police station. Michael Mickle, 32, was standing in front of Cluck-U Chicken on South Orange Avenue just before 5 p.m. when a man ran up behind him and fired several shots before jumping into a burgundy van and driving off, said Charlotte Smith, a spokeswoman for the Essex County Prosecutor's Office. Mickle was pronounced dead at University Hospital in Newark. The shooting occurred just steps from a neighborhood park filled with families and one block from Seton Hall University. Officials said they are investigating whether Mickle knew his killer and if he was with anybody else when he was killed. Authorities didn't release Mickle's date of birth, but a Newark man of the same name and age was among a group of men, including gang leader David Allen, involved in the murder of a 17-year-old boy in a drug-turf dispute in 1997. Allen, whom authorities claim is the leader of the "9 Tre Gangster" set of the Bloods street gang, was convicted in 2001 of killing Terrence Hines and is serving a life sentence in prison. A man named Michael Mickle, born Dec. 4, 1973, pleaded guilty to conspiring with Allen to kill Hines and was sentenced to eight years in prison. Hines was chased and shot to death after failing to heed warnings not to sell drugs on a street corner in Newark's South Ward that was under Allen's control, said a prosecutor at Allen's sentencing. Homicides are rare in South Orange, home to 16,788 residents. There were seven homicides in the village from 1989 to 2004, according to State Police Uniform Crime Reports. South Orange is a quaint town and you don't expect shootings or other violent crimes to happen, said resident Joe Buckner. "It doesn't surprise you but it is disappointing when it happens this close to home," he said. "Why is it that important to take somebody's life?" Willie Carri, who has lived in South Orange for four years, agreed. "I don't like hearing that kind of stuff but I'm not naive," he said, while watching his son play at Grove Park, within a block of the shooting. "Something like that can happen anywhere." Mickle was shot in a small commercial district less than a mile from the village's downtown area. A mix of residents and Seton Hall students patronize the video store, barber shop, liquor store and the various eateries along South Orange Avenue. Apartments are located above the storefronts. Dogukan Muezzinler lives around the corner from where the shooting took place. "At home there is a low crime rate, so this very unusual for me," said Muezzinler, a graduate student from Cyprus studying at the university. "I could not believe it." Though disturbed, Buckner still took his daughter to Grove Park yesterday to play baseball. "It seems like an isolated incident," he said. "It's a nice town with good schools and good people." And this Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 8:00 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Surprised this got missed in today's paper... Law & Order Slain man was buddy of jailed gang leader Tuesday, May 09, 2006 SOUTH ORANGE: The Newark man shot to death Saturday outside a local eatery was an associate of a notorious gang leader serving a life sentence for murder, police said yesterday. Michael Mickle, 32, was gunned down as he stood in front of an eatery along South Orange Avenue. Around 5 p.m., a man ran up to Mickle and fired several shots before jumping in a van and driving off, authorities said. South Orange Police Director Jim Chelel confirmed Mickle was involved, along with David Allen, in the slaying of a 17-year-old boy in a drug-turf dispute in 1997. Allen, whom authorities claim is the leader of the "9 Tre Gangster" set of the Bloods street gang, was convicted in 2001 of killing Terrence Hines and is serving a life sentence. Mickle pleaded guilty to conspiring to kill the teen and was sentenced to eight months in state prison. South Orange police are working with the Essex County Prosecutor's Office on the case, Chelel said. Anyone with information is asked to contact South Orange police at (973) 763-3000. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5052 Registered: 1-2004 |
Glock In response to your comment: "There is no such thing as reverse racism." Want to bet? | ||
| tomp Citizen Username: Tomp Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks Auntie. I did see those, as well as the News-Record article; as far as I know, that's all that's been publically reported regarding the murder. FWIW, the police said that the people who were arrested in the raid on the hair salon last Friday evening were wanted on prior warrants, and weren't connected to the shooting or to Mickle. Also, although they don't deny that the victim was a customer of theirs, the hair salon owners are protesting the fact that they were singled out to be raided by the drug squad. I got a chance to ask Chief Chelel, at the pubic safety meeting this evening, whether he had any reason to believe that Mickle was trying to establish a presence on that strip, and he said no - it's likely that the Mickle just happened to be there and got spotted by his killers. I still don't really believe that, but maybe it's true. Hopefully we'll find out eventually. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1347 Registered: 10-2004  |
cfb - I'm here but have nothing that can advance the conversation. The thread is about the consequences to the businesses on the strip after the incident. The thread drift is all the discussion about the actual murder and gangs and times of operation. In my mind the reaction of the authorities included (since I have no idea about the actual investigations) the observations by authorities of minute and particularly arbitrary violations that the businesses have either committed or had not yet taken care of. My purpose is not to defend a barber shops late hours of operations but rather to ask why the barber shop, pizza shop and the other businesses being put under zoning scrutinies that are not being placed on other businesses on S.Orange Ave? I agree 100% that the murder itself must be looked into with haste and urgency, but I also understand that this could have easily happened at any other place and time. Sorry - not provacative. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 366 Registered: 2-2005 |
Technically you are correct Glock if your talking strict definition...but American Society has basically assumes racism to mean discrimination toward blacks...hence the term reverse-racism, or reverse-descrimination. | ||
| Kitchenguru Citizen Username: Kitchenguru Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2005 |
Crime Rate Comparison: http://montclairnj.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Montclair&s1=NJ&c2=south +orange&s2=NJ | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 827 Registered: 1-2006  |
What did I do wrong? We're Sorry. We couldn't find the city: South+orange, NJ J.B. | ||
| Kitchenguru Citizen Username: Kitchenguru Post Number: 79 Registered: 9-2005 |
http://montclairnj.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Montclair&s1=NJ&c2=South +Orange&s2=NJ Try again. | ||
| Kitchenguru Citizen Username: Kitchenguru Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2005 |
Just correct South+Orange to South Orange. Glitch in link. | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 828 Registered: 1-2006 |
Kitchenguru, Got the same message. Can you copy the text for us, or at least, summarize it? I'm interested. J.B. | ||
| Kitchenguru Citizen Username: Kitchenguru Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2005 |
JB Did you get the crime stats page to work? Another exciting topic(ho-hum): "Reverse racism", minority vs. majority Racism is usually directed against a minority population, but may also be directed against a majority population. Examples include racial apartheid in South Africa, wherein whites (a minority) discriminated against blacks (a majority), in Latin America, where predominantly African-descended peoples are often marginalized; this form of racism also occurred during the former colonial rule of such countries as Vietnam (by France) and India (by the United Kingdom). "Reverse racism" is a controversial concept. It is a perceived, reactionary, race-based hostility or antipathy of an oppressed and/or relatively powerless minority toward an oppressive and/or powerful majority group. In the United States, it is often used to refer to programs which attempt to correct the effects of previous instances of racism, such as affirmative action, but are perceived to simply be racism of a different form to a different group. The standard example is that if a policy is made to give African-Americans more jobs, based on their racial status, then the policy is effectively discriminating against whites who apply for the same jobs. In Finland, Swedes are getting many privileges like free university studies for almost all even if they actually are the richest and healthiest ethnic group. This is called "positive" discrimination and it is the official policy of Finland. The concept of reverse racism, much less its application in any given situation, is highly contested. | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 830 Registered: 1-2006 |
I got it. South Orange is worse for murder and car theft. But Montclair is worse for rape. What do we do with this information? Regarding "Reverse Racism" I don't think this is the thread for that. J.B. | ||
| Kitchenguru Citizen Username: Kitchenguru Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2005 |
JB You have it backward, based on FBI stats (www.cityrating.com) for 1993 Monclair and Millburn both had at least one murder and South Orange had zero. This thread makes is sound like the town is under siege from drug dealers and gang members. I merely wanted to present a source for facts. Here is another source:"Homicides are rare in South Orange, home to 16,788 residents. There were seven homicides in the village from 1989 to 2004, according to State Police Uniform Crime Reports." This is part of the article quoted above from the Star Ledger. On the subject of "Reverse Racism" I printed the excerpt above from a respected encyclopedia to illustrate that this term has a broader application than has been mentioned on this thread. My point is also,that this discussion is irrelevant to the thread title and in addition, (for the person who mentioned it's edification) can be applied to many groups: Vietnamese, Indian etc., but if this post ends this discussion, then I'm all for it. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1828 Registered: 12-2003  |
Kitchenguru, you seem relatively new here. I think you'll find that facts aren't generally welcome in these parts. They're just not as interesting. | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 527 Registered: 5-2001 |
Don't go away kitchenguru! | ||
| Flimbro Citizen Username: Flimbro Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2005 |
Does anyone know the status of the bystander who was shot? | ||
| annabanana Citizen Username: Banana Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2006 |
Anyone know what the police activity in that area on Friday around 5pm was all about? | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2005 |
OLD and GRAY-Are you possibly confusing Glock with me? I don't see how he has demostrated an anti-police sentiment. And I love the coined term, "reverse racism", it's really quite hilarious. BETTYD-How long do you plan on fishing? You ask questions, and when you don't get the answers you want, you dismiss it, and continue with your delusions. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 369 Registered: 2-2005 |
I never coined that its pretty common term used to describe what was explained...And Glock has shown himself to be basically anti everything. He has attacked the police, their tactics, and just about any opionion outside of his own. | ||
| noracoombs Citizen Username: Noracoombs Post Number: 147 Registered: 8-2002 |
Filmbro: the bystander had a relatively minor leg injury--he was brought to the hospital, treated, and released the same day. | ||
| tomp Citizen Username: Tomp Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2001 |
Flimbro: The News-Record article said, The other victim of the shooting, a 62-year-old East Orange man, was grazed in the knee by a bullet that had deflected. He was taken to the same hospital as Mickle, treated and released, authorities said. It doesn't sound like he was injured at all seriously. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 238 Registered: 12-2005 |
LW: I don't believe I am fishing, whatever that means. What delusions are you referring to? | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1829 Registered: 12-2003 |
Again, please keep the various "facts" of this case to yourself. They just slow down the discussion about what REALLY happened. | ||
| Spanish Inquisitor Citizen Username: Sinq Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2004  |
cmontyburns, You asserted several things which are hardly facts. Namely, "This shooting was a random event that could have happened anywhere in town." From news items we know it involved the Bloods. From reports here, it appears there was a raid of several stores and possibly an arrest or arrests. That's all we know. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1353 Registered: 10-2004 |
ok I give up. The only place that the shooting could have taken place was right there in front of the Village Pizza shop. The reason that spot was selected was because the hours of operation of that business strip were long enough that the police would never be able to figure out the exact time the shooter and victim would be present. Ive always said that this business strip is nothing more then a front for the Bloods street gang. Lord knows the secret was never kept that quiet. With all the traffic going and coming from this group of stores it is obvious to this observer that there must be a healthy drug business going on. Whenever I go over to pick up a quick dinner I see all kinds of people just standing on the sidewalk, just waiting for something. Let me tell you its those people that make me suspicious. Couldnt they just order their food before hand and pick it up when its ready? Or wait in their cars? No they stand around holding... CONVERSATIONS ... Whats that about? In my point of view we need a police presence in the area, not just a few cops coming by to pick up some chicken and brocoli but a full time patrol car right there. That would deter all further criminal activity. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 902 Registered: 7-2005 |
I am anti-everything? I'm pro-truth, pro-gressive, and pro-black. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 239 Registered: 12-2005 |
As am I. |
