| Author | Message | ||
     jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 115 Registered: 8-2005 |
If the gun display bothers you stop funding Pierro! They obviously have no respect for the community at large. So I say shut the Gallery down. I totally disagree with our BOT decision not to remove the gun. This is a public park not a canvas for some artist that obviously has no artistic talent what so ever. Controversy in our park is not art and if Terry Ann thinks this sparks conversations that need to be discussed then I suggest she goes for counseling to learn how to start these types of discussions on her own. Our BOT should take the measures that are necessary to remove this. It is not censorship when it exists in our PARK. Keep this type of garbage inside the walls of the gallery. We should be proud of the art that is represented by our galley not disgusted. And for the record I am not motivated by Ms. Skrope who I find to be a town nuisance. | ||
| Lynne Doddo Citizen Username: Jennycat Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2006 |
Controversing about what???? It's not about art. Most people I see on the hill have no idea where the gun on the hill came from. I hear parents trying to make up stories to tell the kids i.e. Maybe the Spanish scoccer players put it there, or Who put that there in the middle of the night?, Is someone trying to send us a message? No one has a clue where it came from and what it is doing there. Most of the controversey was trying to figure out where it came from and why.. | ||
| ROGER Citizen Username: Roger Post Number: 83 Registered: 2-2005  |
"maybe the Spanish Soccer Players put it there" Really, really nice. Any Parent that makes a comment like that to a child needs his/her head examined. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 116 Registered: 8-2005 |
So we all should stop funding the gallery. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1827 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes. Any time art offends anyone, it should be removed, and funding cut off. It's the American Way. | ||
| Spanish Inquisitor Citizen Username: Sinq Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2004  |
Especially if created by Spaniards. | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 1407 Registered: 3-2002 |
cmonty - I take it you were being funny - hope so...as for the starter of the thread..oy...if you are serious, then lighten up - one reason for art is to make people think...you don't have to like it or find it beautiful. I think Jersey Boy was right - the SO section is a complete buzz kill | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 420 Registered: 10-2005  |
The discussion around artistic issues on this board tends to be, well, juvenile. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3135 Registered: 5-2004  |
Any discussion of "What is art?" is going to be divisive. it is not juvenile to say "I want to like the art my tax dollars are paying for." It might be wholly unrealistic, but I wouldn't say it's juvenile. If art is for the masses, then the masses should be able to debate what they like and what they don't like. If it is not for the masses, it should not be funded by them in any way. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3321 Registered: 9-2003 |
Does anyone know if Pierro pays rent to the Village for the space in the Baird? | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 422 Registered: 10-2005 |
Agreed, Rastro. Believe me, I deal with such discussions professionally on a daily basis. But I don't think some people really want to discuss, they just want to attack. Some people on South Orange threads, especially having to do with the issue of the Tau, tend to bolster their arguments against it with "and it's ugly." Uh, yes...The whole point of minimalism was to be realtively non-aesthetic in its choice of form. Smith was inspired by the timelss "perfection" of mathematics--geometry--at the same time as he aknowledged the Americanness and historical specificity of his work through the use of sheets of steel, mass production, and hugeness of scale. Someone called Smith a minor artist. Not true, he's a major figure in the history of minimalism, and minimalism is a major component of art of the 20th century. To me, having to personlly spend over a thousand bucks on a water softner is more of a financial imposition that the Tau. Furthermore, to suggest, as Jeep did, that we should shut down a gallery for supporting conceptual/political art is just backward and knee-jerk. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 117 Registered: 8-2005 |
I do not think a outline of an assault weapon in flowers displayed in a public park is art. I did not think the person stopping traffic several years ago walking through town inside a pile of branches was art. I thought the pile of branches needed a match but I kept that to myself. But a AK47 is not art it is a political statement. If an AK47 is art then why are my children not allowed to draw one in school? Can someone please explain this to me. I think this so called gallery is a disgrace to our town I also think the level of people who are in control of its art have no idea what they are doing. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9418 Registered: 4-1997  |
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| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 291 Registered: 2-2005 |
now THAT'S art! | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3942 Registered: 5-2001  |
No, this is Art:  -s. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 118 Registered: 8-2005 |
The art on the hill does make me think. It makes me think the gallery should be shuttered! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5053 Registered: 1-2004  |
The 'flowers' are plastic to boot... | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 120 Registered: 8-2005 |
funny | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 302 Registered: 7-2004 |
A fundamental problem in South Orange is the BOT busy's itself with facilitating and using tax dollars for art, including controversial art, but it hasn't come any where close to mastering the basics of local government, including budgeting and maintenance and improvement of the physical infrastructure. I'm no expert on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but it seems this BOT and this VP in particular have put the cart before the horse. GET THE BASICS RIGHT FIRST, then you can incite controversy by indulging your artistic pretensions from a much stronger position. | ||
| JoRo Citizen Username: Autojoe51 Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2005 |
fix our utterly derailed downtown development. stimulate economy. increase revenues. then worry about public art. (and this coming from a part-time artist...) our government, by and large, is woefully out of touch. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2005  |
Folks, the Gallery has been open for more than 10 years. It is an extremely well regarded part of our community as has been recognized state wide. This whole thread is absurd. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 121 Registered: 8-2005 |
WOEFULLY out of touch? Our Gov't is a disgrace. Did you watch that meeting last evening...............it was SAD. Rosen is unable to speak. Every time he opens his mouth it takes him forever to get his point out. If Art Taylor said "you know" one more time! Eric Devais contributes nothing. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4921 Registered: 5-2001 |
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| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3137 Registered: 5-2004 |
Tom, Stalin was saying MUST be for the masses. I have no such illusions. However if it is not, then it is for a smaller group. I have no problem with that. I just don't want to pay for it in that case. And what I said is that people should be able to debate it. So your comparison of what I said to Stalin is way off. People complain that other people are debating whether X is art. If that art is publicly funded, even us unwashed masses should be able to discuss whether something is art without being called names, including Stalinist. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9420 Registered: 4-1997 |
LOL Tom's dangerous with that search engine. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 123 Registered: 8-2005 |
Flying S The issue here is we the taxpayers of South Orange need to take control of our town. Our downtown is coming soon, millions being spent on SOPAC and TAU, gun art on the hill and I hear last night from a trustee that children are being approached by gangs to be recruited? What the hell is going on? Taxes are rising and services are not. Close the galley or at least stop funding it. Send a message that we have had all we can take! | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 424 Registered: 10-2005 |
jeep, I jut don't believe you speak for "the taxpayers" especially on the issue of Pierro. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jeep, are you saying it makes a lot of sense to close a local art gallery to prevent our kids from being recruited by gangs? Maybe a little MORE exposure to art is the answer, not less. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 125 Registered: 8-2005 |
Shanabana it is simple. We must take control of what is going on. Maybe starting with this so called gallery. If this gun is upsetting so many people then why doesn't the gallery just remove it. Why should anyone in this town have to be so upset from a piece of art. The fact that the gallery does nothing about it shows they have no respect for people of the town. If it was in the gallery it would be a completely different situation. But it is not. It is in OUR park not PIERROS park! OUR PARK! | ||
| Dawg Walker Citizen Username: Deyki Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2006 |
remember the taliban banned art..oppressive societies often start there | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 127 Registered: 8-2005 |
Remember the gun of choice for the Taliban is the AK47 | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3945 Registered: 5-2001 |
I don't think a middle-aged salesman has a better grip on local government, crime, or artistic endeavors than anybody else, do you, Jeep? -s. BTW: With the exception of my previous post, I agree with FSM. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2005 |
I don't understand that? | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 425 Registered: 10-2005 |
"The AK-47 was designed by Mikhail Timofeyevich Kalashnikov as a replacement for the SKS and as a rifle that could be used by Soviet tank crews. In 1946, while working at the Kovrov weapons plant, Kalashnikov began work on the AK-47. The AK-47 was accepted as the standard rifle for the Soviet Army in 1949 and retained that status until it was succeeded by the AKM. To this day between 30 and 50 million copies and variations of the AK-47 have been produced world wide, making it the most widely used rifle in the world. " This interests me because the Soviets, of course, tried to wrest control of Afghanistan. Now, as jeep points out, the AK 47 has been use by the Taliban. Hmm. Seems to me that the AK 47 represents: colonization, invasion, insurrection, unwanted power, aggression, and a very real threat to most sane people's sense of peace world wide. That said, a REPRESENTATION of the weapon in FLOWERS (even plastic ones) is CLEARLY not a serious endorsement of any of those things. I'm sure someone mentioned it on another thread, but there was the hippie chick who put the flower in the end of the national guardsman's (?) weapon, back in the day. This seems a pretty clear reference to that. This is a temporary art installation. Let it run its course. I personally am pretty offended by Berc's pictures, but hey, I was planning to keep my opinions to myself... | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3947 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeep: http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=606590#POST6065 90 -s. | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 303 Registered: 7-2004 |
What several posters are conflating are the notions of government sponsorship of art and government censorship of art. Not sponsoring art does not equate to censoring art. | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 426 Registered: 10-2005 |
Shutting off funding based on response to one work of art is as close to censorship as you can get in a nation that supports free speech. The statement is loud and clear: "We'll support you so long as you only show what we approve of." | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 130 Registered: 8-2005 |
You are absolutely correct Shabanabana. If this type of art is shown in a gallery than I have the option of not going to see it. I believe we still should show respect for our fellow man. If this is so offensive to people then move it into the gallery or put it on private property. I would have no issue with it in a gallery or on private property. | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 304 Registered: 7-2004 |
I don't support shutting down Pierro because of this installation. I personally am not bothered by the gun installation. That's not the point. My point is don't equate not funding something with censorship, that is a slippery slope...who knows what we'll end up having to fund in order to avoid being labeled censors. THREAD DRIFT Call me narrow minded. I happen to think a municipal government should focus on providing services for the benefit of a broad cross section of the community. This and Tau and SOPAC are all drains on time and money that could be better spent on improving parks, infrastructure, parking & traffic, and implementing programs to stimulate redevelopment - and the extra costs of supporting the bonded debt for Tau and SOPAC will, sooner or later, put pressure on funding art programming, things like classes and performances that have broad appeal. If we're such a strong arts community, there should be plenty of support - as there appears to be in neighboring communities - for the arts. I see non-profit theater spaces in Maplewood and Summit. I don't see big gov't projects. Some people here seem to think we're only an arts community if we coerce all taxpayers to support it. I'm not part of the arts community, but perhaps someone can tell me what New York City did (back in the days) to make SoHo, Chelsea, Williamsburg, Lower East Side, etc. attractive to artists. Did they build performing arts spaces or galleries at the cost of $1,000 per resident? Or did they spend an amount equal to almost 2% of their budget to replicate a single piece of art? (for comparison, the cost of Tau ($410K lowest estimate) as a % of SO's budget ($25mm est) is roughly similar to the cost of 9/11 memorial at Ground Zero, which is approaching an est. cost of $1 B, as a % of NYC's annual budget ($50B+) - and some folks think the memorial is too expensive!) For that matter, if we need Tau and SOPAC to be a strong arts community, how come all of our current resident artists moved here before these projects were built? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4073 Registered: 5-2001  |
Well said, SO1969. I find it amazing that such a "down to earth" and liberal minded community like South Orange claims to be the antithesis of a place like Short Hills, yet we have a handful of art snobs who throw $250/head parties to raise money for a sculpture solely to bring "prestige" to town instead of using that money helping people. It seems very backwards to me. |
