| Author | Message | ||
     doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 1416 Registered: 3-2002 |
Seems to me, based on some of the above posts, that we might need to redirect arts funding to the teaching of basic grammar, spelling & punctuation for some in our community... But seriously & back on-topic, Jeep: "If this gun is upsetting so many people then why doesn't the gallery just remove it. Why should anyone in this town have to be so upset from a piece of art." Well - I'm not upset by the work & it would seem that most folks also are not upset. My only issue is that I think it's sort of poorly executed...would I know it was a gun if I hadn't been told? Not sure. I'm pleased to have the gallery in our town... | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1570 Registered: 3-2002 |
I'm pleased to have the gallery in town, and mildly annoyed by the use of the hill for the current display. Not that well executed, poorly explained at the outset, made of plastic flowers, and displayed by playing fields used extensively for kiddie sports. I just don't think this was a very bright curatorial decision. On the other hand, I'm not keen on our BOT getting involved in tight oversight of individual pieces of art at the gallery. I believe that modest levels of funding for local art are appropriate (as SO1969 said above, Tau may exceed moderate), as long as they are appropriated in an aboveboard fashion (unlike Tau), and as long as there is some modest level of town influence/control on what is done. I'm OK with the gallery, but would suggest a little thoughtfulness from BOT and gallery on the use of the park for art, both for esthetic and safety reasons (my daughter was nearly injured by the summer rainbow banner installation, which was not sufficiently wind-proof, when the pipes ripped loose from the ground in a moderate breeze). | ||
| vermontgolfer Supporter Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 438 Registered: 12-2002 |
I guess most of you who are not bothered by the 'gun on the hill' missed the speaker last night who is a Vietnam veteran, who expressed how uncomfortable this made him and spoke quite eloquently how he didn't feel it was the place for such an exhibit. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5058 Registered: 1-2004  |
I heard about him speaking last night vermont. I'm trying to download the meeting now; but it takes forever, even with DSL. I keep trying to point out we have families in South Orange who have lived ones fighting this war. There is no draft, and many people signed up to fight this war after 9.11. While I believe Bush misled the Country with his reasons for being there, I still support our troops. Why is it South Orange has done NOTHING to show support for the troops? If this is only the latest of several displays of protest against the war we will be forced to look at I believe we should give equal support to those who support the troops. I would like to see the PG have someone design a banner as large as the plastic flower gun that says "South Orange Supports the Troops!" This should be displayed next to, or behind any anti war display. This is a public park, not everyone is against the war; why is only one side being represented? Better still, I think I'll make some calls and price a banner. Maybe I'll find a company that has banners made by children. Comments? Thoughts? | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5393 Registered: 10-1999  |
People who oppose the war do support the troops. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5061 Registered: 1-2004 |
You and I know that NH; but nothing I've read from the PG about this display, or the ones expected to follow say anything like this. Do you agree then, both sides should be represented? | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 857 Registered: 1-2006  |
Where the hell is this? I crane my neck everytime I drive by Floods Hill, and I still haven't seen it. Does one have to park to see the floral AK 47? Art is too much trouble. J.B. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9422 Registered: 4-1997  |
You may wait a long time to find an artist who wants to promote war. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3323 Registered: 9-2003 |
JB - it's not easily visible from Ridgewood - you need to drive along Meadowbrook Lane to see it clearly. | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 3218 Registered: 7-2002  |
J.B., you have to drive by the lower road at the hill, unless of course it's been removed, than you wouldn't be able to see it. Dave, there is at least one war that artists promote, the war against war.... | ||
| Jersey_Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 859 Registered: 1-2006 |
Well then, I'm for it! J.B. | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 3219 Registered: 7-2002 |
sheesh, I got caught up in something else (TV) and it took me 12 minutes to hit that dang post button, or maybe more depending on how long I dilly dallied before SoOrLady posted. | ||
| Jersey girl Citizen Username: Critterlover Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2004 |
Ever give a thought as to what Lenny Pierro would have thought of all this? Just wondering, thinking of Lenny and wondering, since the Gallery bears his name and dedicated in his honor. The location of this floral-gun-display was not well thought out, placing it right near the children's playing fields. The plastic flowers are dreadful. I have family memebrs in the military right now, serving during this war. I do support the troops. I wish my tax dollars could not support the war. Jersey Girl | ||
| flugermongers Citizen Username: Flugermongers Post Number: 571 Registered: 5-2001  |
BK'69, your sentence "not sponsoring art does not equate to censoring art" got me thinking. That’s such an amazing thought. We are not forcefully pulling art away, but not helping it along. I just can't say that the latter is true though. By helping you enable, but by not helping you disable. In many things, that is where accessories and neglecters come from. Whoa. Heavy. Also for things like boycotts. It's supply and demand. Now obviously something being boycotted would have a deliberate cause around it, but let's say one stops buying bananas for whatever reason, and more and more stop buying bananas, our abundance and then clear decline in banana consumption is going to cause a real problem for the 'naner industry! ;) And in order to break into some businesses, you need people to not turn away or you don't make it. Damn, I seriously need sleep. Which leads me to Shanabana, I hear you, a lot of the debate around here can be juvenile. Depends on who is contributing to the boards. I definitely agree with your reply to BK’s sentence. doulamomma, I've tried not to base intelligence on certain types of typos. Many times, they're just mistakes... and I think that some have a knack for deciphering this strange language, and to some it really isn't easy to put together. I suck at math. We all have our subjects. Haha but yeah, typos still really bug me. Dave, I love: "You may wait a long time to find an artist who wants to promote war. " Unfortunately, I know one. Now that I have babbled, can someone start from the beginning with this insulting masterpiece? I know nothing about it... Can it be described? | ||
| flugermongers Citizen Username: Flugermongers Post Number: 572 Registered: 5-2001 |
BK'69, your sentence "not sponsoring art does not equate to censoring art" got me thinking. That’s such an amazing thought. We are not forcefully pulling art away, but not helping it along. I just can't say that the latter is true though. By helping you enable, but by not helping you disable. In many things, that is where accessories and neglecters come from. Whoa. Heavy. Also for things like boycotts. It's supply and demand. Now obviously something being boycotted would have a deliberate cause around it, but let's say one stops buying bananas for whatever reason, and more and more stop buying bananas, our abundance and then clear decline in banana consumption is going to cause a real problem for the 'naner industry! ;) And in order to break into some businesses, you need people to not turn away or you don't make it. BUTTTTTTT, anyone at any time certainly has the right to not fund something like art if it offends them. I don't think people should stop helping other people when something offends them (i.e. help for the homeless, feeding the hungry), and we DO need endowments for the arts, but if you're someone giving money to help a gallery, and you are offended by something, you can stop helping the gallery. If I knew this whole situation, I could see more clearly what you guys are talking about though. Anyone? Shanabana, I hear you, a lot of the debate around here can be juvenile. Depends on who is contributing to the boards. doulamomma, I've tried not to base intelligence on certain types of typos. Many times, they're just mistakes... and I think that some have a knack for deciphering this strange language, and to some it really isn't easy to put together. I suck at math. We all have our subjects. Haha but yeah, typos still really bug me. Dave, I love: "You may wait a long time to find an artist who wants to promote war. " Unfortunately, I know one. Now that I have babbled, can someone start from the beginning with this insulting masterpiece? I know nothing about it... Can it be described? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9423 Registered: 4-1997 |
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| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9424 Registered: 4-1997 |
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| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9425 Registered: 4-1997 |
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| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3455 Registered: 5-2001  |
So what happend at the Rec and Cultural Affairs Advisory Committee meeting last night? Did John Pogany preside? Was there any discussion of the Committee and the Art Gallery? | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 1420 Registered: 3-2002 |
Exactly, Nohero - being against this war, which some feel was about as well planned as this art on the hill, is not the same as not supporting troops... Who doesn't want safety and all good things for the men and women serving our country, with little or no say in their fates and actions? But how would the Pierro Gallery waiving a sign in support of troops be appropriate, Aunt? Perhaps someone can do some art that has a message of support for the troops. I know you don't think the flower gun is art, but that was the intent by the artist & what a gallery is about...it has served a purpose because it has gotten people talking, so whether we find it beautiful or not, it has achieved some measure of success as art, imho. Fluger, I know, I know - I'm not great at math myself & I'm sure there are even mistakes in this post, but I generally read things over before hitting send - I make sure I'm using words correctly (to the extent of my abilities) if I want my ideas to be taken seriously...just a pet peeve & really just me being a smart azz I suppose. As Jersey Girl said, I'm not crazy about my fed. tax dollars being spent to fund the real guns - I don't like it & I find it ugly...to paraphrase Rastro, if this war is for the masses, then the masses should support it or it should not be paid for with tax dollars. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5063 Registered: 1-2004 |
Dave- Nobody said anything about promoting war. I said SUPPORTING THE TROOPS! Big difference... | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 475 Registered: 8-2005 |
JTA: I heartily agree. And I would like to support them all the way home!!! | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3149 Registered: 5-2004  |
JTA, while I agree that the town should o more to visibly support the troops, I'm curious how a piece of art could do that. Typically, art, particularly political art, is intended to be controversial. there's not much that's controversial about supporting the troops. Do you know anyone who doesn't? Being anti-war does not equate to being against the troops. An anti-war message is not an affront to the memories of those who gave their lives for our country. Perhaps you could get he BOT to draft a resolution supporting the troops. If there is something specific you have in mind, let us know. Perhaps in a new thread, as this has drifted very far from its origins (like most MOL threads...) | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 427 Registered: 10-2005  |
Ok, one last point: "I'm not part of the arts community, but perhaps someone can tell me what New York City did (back in the days) to make SoHo, Chelsea, Williamsburg, Lower East Side, etc. attractive to artists. Did they build performing arts spaces or galleries at the cost of $1,000 per resident?" No, they didn't build places, but if you could "prove" you were an artist the city of New York would let you legally occupy the cheap loft spaces that had previously been zoned industry only. SOHO had become a defunct indulstiral area back in the 1960's. Communities that are open to the arts, that take risks in supporting them, are generally well-regarded amongst educated peoples. Having citizens who wanna "shut-'em-down!" can only discourage future investment, be it in people moving to South Orange, or people setting down business roots here. SoPAC may cost a lot, but I'm sure it will have a beneficial effect on the surrounding retail/restaurant establishments. Important repretory theatres around the country get local aid, as do museums, and other not-for-profit establishments. | ||
| flugermongers Citizen Username: Flugermongers Post Number: 573 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh wow, why didn't that post delete? My second post is where I went into more about lack of sponsorship. I flip-floped? LOL Nah I went over my post. Hm. Well whatever, can someone delete my first post? I guess the page never loaded when I deleted it. Wow, I don't know what to make of that. I mean, what's the message? Is it an attack on hypocrisy of anti-war people, people who say they want peace but are in it for the wrong reasons, or directly a M/SO thing? What's the backstory? I really cannot understand the whole stupid anti-war people don't support the troops thing. It gets on my nerves. Because we do not support what the troops are sent to do, but usually, the reason for being against a war is to prevent violence... "we don't want American soldiers hurt" is part of that. So while I might not respect someone for being in the army (and may I please point out here that a lot of people are duped into going into the army... recruiters target certain groups -- BUT no one is drafted anymore - for some, it's their best option), I would never wish that harm came to them (ok ok maybe Ashcroft)-- so this support troops thing is ridiculous... it's like you have to argue what support is, not some esoteric question... Doulamamma, me too, me too. Gosh, we're bad. Oh, one last thing, am I the only person who thinks this looks like Woody Allen?  | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9432 Registered: 4-1997 |
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| flugermongers Citizen Username: Flugermongers Post Number: 574 Registered: 5-2001 |
WHOA | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2001 |
Shanabana, I'll tell you what's well-regarded amongst educated peoples, and that is a community that takes pride in its schools and maintains them properly. Basic maintenance and upkeep are sorely lacking in this town. Pet projects and big promises are the norm. | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 432 Registered: 10-2005 |
Uh, wmb: duh! There are MANY things that are well-regarded amongst educated folk, and I was listing ONE. What's up with this either-or attitude??? | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 378 Registered: 8-2001 |
What's up with this either-or attitude is that these things cost money and money is a finite resource. Have you set foot inside the middle or high school lately? It is disgraceful. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 135 Registered: 11-2005  |
Wnb..Peraps you don't know but the middle and high schools are paid for with that part of your tax dollar that supports the SCHOOLS. Less than 25% of what we pay goes to the Village, over 55% to the schools. | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 379 Registered: 8-2001 |
Yes I'm aware of that. But every dollar is as green as the next, and there are a limited number of them. Allocating them to different budgets doesn't make more of them appear, nor does it invalidate weighing the value of those allocations across budgets. You can point to almost any piece of infrastructure in town and it has been neglected. That's true of the parks, the schools, virtually everything. And on the other hand there are lots of flashy projects (including "art-oriented" projects as well as plenty of others) which hold much promise but I have to wonder if we're building a great addition onto a house with a neglected and crumbling foundation. I believe we should be taking care of the basics first and foremost. If there is money left over then it would be great to fund these other things. If there is not, then there's not. I'd rather live in a town with clean, grafitti-free streets and parks, excellent, well-funded police and fire and rescue services, a DPW that could pick up recycling more than once a month and bulk pick-up service, decent water, and properly maintained school facilities, than one in which these things are compromised and the funds diverted to other things. I am not against government funding art, even controversial art. I am, however, against robbing Peter to pay Paul with this stuff. So my point was if you want to talk about what "educated" people care about, I'd rather see my $2 or $10 or whatever my portion of this is, go towards hiring someone to clean up the middle school, say, rather than having it go towards hiring someone to put some flowers in the shape of a gun in the middle of the park. | ||
| talk-it-up Citizen Username: Talkitup Post Number: 226 Registered: 3-2004 |
It seems there are many reasons to take it down the gun on the hill: Children in the area. Double standard. If the child goes to school and draws it they will get in trouble. The Village should not display a political whatever as the opinion for the Village - to each their own. Public art in public space has different criteria than art behind doors in a gallery. It is easily misunderstood. It is disrespectful to members of the armed forces past, present, and future. It is extremely disrespectful to everyone at Memorial Day and Fourth of July. The gallery is not an entity to itself. It is public and supported by public funds and not the domain of one person. The Trustees need to take a stand. They micromanage Tau but ignore the gun. It appears that more residents are getting involved and taking a stand on the situation with art in south orange. It appears everything in moderation is good but then we swing to the extreme. The gallery seems, from what I have been reading, to have previously exhibited questionable items. The gallery also seems to have previously presented antiwar exhibits in public open space. What process if any allows this? Isn't it up to the Village Administrator to control the Village employees? | ||
| buddybak Citizen Username: Buddybak Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2006 |
If, the PG is funded as a private foundation then let them pay for the TAU completely and not the Village of South Orange.....I say CLOSE IT DOWN once and for all. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3971 Registered: 5-2001  |
Troll Alert... Morons. -s. BTW: SHUT DOWN THIS THREAD. | ||
| jeep Citizen Username: Jeep Post Number: 137 Registered: 8-2005 |
So we have a local art gallery that is funded by the tax payers and donations from tax payers. The board of the gallery shows no respect for the overwhelming concern about the gun. They could simply take it down. SHUT THE GALLERY DOWN! | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1237 Registered: 5-2003 |
I think that people are making the gallery the focus of all of their anger at things that are wrong here in SO. Instead of shutting the gallery down, residents should be demanding a voice in the management of the gallery--which we obviously have not had. Yhe gallery's board, should be elected by the citizens for finite terms, just like the BOT. And the gallery's director, who has her job only because she is the widow of the person after whom it is named, should be answerable to the elected board. While I personally do not agree with the objections voiced to the gun on the hill, I certainly think that any public installation should be subject to review by the public. That goes for the gun, for Tau, and for the past installations on Flood's hill. I remember those "hairy women." I think that they were supposed to represent women who were mourning for the victims of the plane that was blown up over Lockerbie. I also remember a bunch of yellow crime scene tape tied to the fence by the river, and something else that looked like sacks of trash. Art? Maybe. Did I like it? Some, I thought, were stupid. Some I hated. But nobody asked me--or anybody else what we thought, and that, I think, is what has angered people. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 9580 Registered: 4-1997 |
A few red roses (plastic even) could help transform without destroying what exists  | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 504 Registered: 1-2006 |
Is the weapon still there? I heard that it is not visible. Maybe the grass overtook it. Or was it poppies? jd | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4114 Registered: 5-2001  |
Why doesn't someone just send their kids to go "play" on the Hill? It is a PARK and there is no fence or notice that the park is Closed, is there? |
