| Author | Message | ||
     phd6786 Citizen Username: Phd6786 Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2006  |
What does Leslie have to say about that? | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 1651 Registered: 5-2005  |
HL If the official minutes don't reflect the comment/statments then that should be addressed, as they will have been altered/have selected ommissions.. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 737 Registered: 4-2005  |
Generally speaking, statements like that wont go into the meeting minutes. The BOT tends to have a lot of side discussions, etc. that occur during the meeting and unless they are speaking into the microphone specifically addressing an issue, it wont be noted in the minutes (or I highly doubt it will). | ||
| Steve Hickson Citizen Username: Shickson Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2006  |
MHD, I really hope people are waking up in this town and thank you for raising TAU awareness among many concerned citizens in South Orange. You continue to impress with your knowledge and handle of the issues. Just add "BunnysGate" to what is becoming a powerful list of bad decisions, inactivity and counter-productivity among this current BOT group. Having attended a few meetings now and watched the TV highlights it really feels like the gang who couldn't shoot straight. Everyone in town owes it to themselves to attend at least one meeting and make their own judgement. The lost Parking Authority resume at the last meeting I attended was simply classic---watching the BOT in action is like witnessing multiple head-on train wrecks continuously replayed in super slow-motion. It's surreal. This group must be broomed. Oh well, time for all of us to get out, take action and vote. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese  Post Number: 1713 Registered: 7-2004  |
Steve Hickson for BOT! | ||
| PRETTYPRINCESS Citizen Username: Prettyprincess Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hmmm?... what does Leslie have to think about that? Being that she is my MOTHER.   | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1302 Registered: 5-2003 |
Diedra; 1. I believe it was you who were so enthusiastic about Stacy Jennings. "She makes things happen," you said. Never mind that it was inappropriate for you to insert yourself into South Orange politics, since you live in Maplewood. Obviously, Stacy has made something happen; she has polarized our community. 2. Jennings remark about the "new demographic" was racist and hugely offensive to me as a caucasion person. It implied that I no longer have a place in this town and am no longer welcome here. But I guess you can't wrap your mind around that. Racism is a two way street, you know, and if Pogany's remark was racist, then Jennings' was just as racist. I also am a member of a minority group. When I first moved here there weren't that many people of my family's persuasion in this town. My children were left out of a number of things because there were clubs that we were unable to join. So I have an experience with racism--and no one, especially not someone with a biased and limited point ot view has a right to call me a racist. Don't address yourself to me again. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 447 Registered: 2-2006 |
I am amazed at the number of people on this board who readily attribute speech to John Pogany without, apparently, having witnessed him saying (or writing) it. Great examples of herdthink, aka, mob psychology. As for the inexcusable actions of the BOT, I hope everyone who reads this talks to their neighbors about what is happening in town, asks them to register to vote if they are not already, and lobbies people door-to-door on his or her block to make sure people vote in the next elections for trustees and a village president who are better than the ones we currently have. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1309 Registered: 7-2005  |
This town's government is out of control. It is time for a well organized march on town hall demanding accountibility and sweeping change. Bunny's is played out anyway. S'all about Trattoria. Or this one BBQ place over in Hillside... | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23401 Registered: 6-2001  |
To anyone who says this won't hurt Bunny's as a business, please remember the fact that the BOT (and Jennings/Calabrese especially) is forcing this business into a SID that they did not ask for and do not want. I will be writing a letter to the Inspector General (http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=615088#POST6150 88) and will ask that an injunction be imposed against any SID ordinance for at least 2 years. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5521 Registered: 1-2004  |
SOrising- Blaze did make a comment he maybe shouldn't have but it was in response to Stacey's comments about South Orange's "New Demographics." I would much rather our BOT members ask a contractor or company the Village plans to hire questions along the line of these: 1) What are you companies qualifications for this project? 2) Has your company ever had complaints file against it for unethical work violations or shoddy workmanship? If so, what was the outcome of those complaints? 3) Please tell us why we should hire your company? Then - How many people of color does your company employee? We want to hire companies that reflect the 'New Demographics" of South Orange. To me, this is more racist then what John said! And what John said was in response to what Jennings said. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1751 Registered: 9-2004  |
demographic adj : of or relating to demography; "demographic surveys" n : a statistic characterizing human populations (or segments of human populations broken down by age or sex or income etc.) How is “new demographics” deemed racist? Strange how a word could become so TWISTED and misinterpreted. Including, doesn’t mean one inclusive (group). Living in South Orange for over 12 years, I’ve seen a changing of demographics, in income (upper-middle class, the over 6 figure levels), color (asians, latinos, europeans, african americans,et al), sex (more single & gay couples), age (definitely younger families from NYC, Hoboken, et al) that have moved into South Orange. What wrong with hiring folks who reflect the above. I should hope our town reflects ALL people of color, religion, sexual orientation and the various levels of income. I thought SOM was all about promoting diversity? I am amazed at the number of people on this board who readily attribute speech to John Pogany without, apparently, having witnessed him saying (or writing) it. Great examples of herdthink, aka, mob psychology. SOrising, Pizzaz = Pogany . He did write what I posted above. What other proof do you need? He definitely did NOT deny he wrote those quotes. Several times (not just that particular thread) Pogany has put his foot-in-his mouth and has made offensive remarks on this site. JTA, Now days, most companies look to PROMOTE diversity. In Government civil service jobs for example, they have an equal opportunities policy that provides all eligible people must have equality of opportunity for employment and advancement based on their suitability for the work. There must be no unfair discrimination on the basis of age, disability, gender, marital status, sexual orientation, religion or belief, race, colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin. Departments and Agencies themselves determine their diversity priorities, and are accountable for their own decisions and actions, Cabinet Office is responsible for ensuring that the Civil Service as a whole meets the Government’s commitment to achieving greater representation of minority ethnic staff, women and staff with disabilities at senior levels. I work for a government entity and when looking at vendors or companies that we seek to do business with, we look at the “the make-up” of the company, besides their qualifications. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10015 Registered: 4-1997  |
That's all well and good, but it's a separate matter from disparaging a local business at a public meeting while much effort is being made to try to get businesses to locate in town. Sending a message that local officials go after businesses like this is the wrong message. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1752 Registered: 9-2004 |
So sending a message to businesses of NOT promoting diversity is a good thing? Should we attract businesses that do NOT hire people of color, women, or you have to be certain religion? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10017 Registered: 4-1997 |
I'm only talking about the thread's topic, not about prior comments by Ms Jennings, which I have only heard second-hand. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1754 Registered: 9-2004 |
point taken.  | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5533 Registered: 1-2004 |
But Dave, those prior comments have everything to do with this thread. Blaze's comment was based on the ones Jennings made. I thought for sure they were made at a meeting in which a link was provided to back up the validity of them being said. Phenx- I'm sorry, I do not think the racial make up of a company should be more important then the qualifications of the company. Jennings did not ask anything about the sexual orientation make up of the business, just about the racial make up. Not all communities have the same diversity as ours. What is a company supposed to do, hire new people based on the make up of a community? For example, look at the demographics of Edison, Parsippany, Millburn, and Lakewood compared to South Orange and each other. All very different. How can one company reflect the unique population of each of these? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10018 Registered: 4-1997 |
That's your viewpoint because you read MOL. Imagine how Ms. Jenning's comments denegrating a local business look to people or prospective local business owners unfamiliar with any prior statements. It sends a message that SO may not be the best place for a business or investment. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1755 Registered: 9-2004 |
JTA, Please do not misconstrue my words. I did NOT say "the racial make up of a company should be more important then the qualifications of the company." And there is nothing wrong with asking about the racial make-up of a company. (Racial would include (latinos, asians, blacks, arabs et al.) When researching vendors, they know this comes into question, besides their qualifications nowdays. | ||
| entertainer Citizen Username: Entertainer Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2001 |
Lizziecat, I beg to differ. I think Mrs. Jennings (as well as each new board member for that matter) has "expanded" our community. More of our residents are coming to the table now as a result of her presence on the board. We all have a voice, whether pro, con, or neutral. In my opinion, that's a good thing. There's no need for you to feel threatened as a caucasian (notice the correct spelling). Demographics change. People move out and the demographics of their new residency also changes. Hopefully it was an exaggeration on your part when you stated that you felt you "...no longer have a place in this town and am no longer welcome here". Also, please be careful with the "racist" label. As you stated in a previous post, you didn't know the meaning of "a new demographic". So why carelessly label someone a racist based on a technical term you do not even understand? Oh, and if someone were to tell me to kiss their (insert color here) *** ... Wow, it would be hard to me to grant them a pool pass, never mind a liquor license... | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3442 Registered: 5-2004  |
I actually have no problem with Jennings no vote or abstention, whatever it was. She should have clarified that, however. We can only assume it was an abstention, since she did not say Yes on everyone, except Bunny's - No on Bunny's. Calabrese, however, is another matter. That had to be one of the most immature interactions I've yet to see from a public figure. He looked like a 12 year old girl giggling "oops, did I say that out loud?" How much more embarrassing can one person be to a town? This is the man chosen to lead us? | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 635 Registered: 5-2001 |
"Oh, and if someone were to tell me to kiss their (insert color here) *** ... Wow, it would be hard to me to grant them a pool pass, never mind a liquor license... Me too! And Phenixrising has it right. Very well put! | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4332 Registered: 5-2001  |
mjh, Have you watched the video clip? Here is the video clip of both Calabrese & Jennings mocking the liquor license for Bunny's. Watch at the end, where Calabrese even says "I hear they water down the liquor" and then giggles like a schoolgirl when he realized the microphone & camera are on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45e92zemoEM People are elected to serve ALL the people. If either of them have a PERSONAL bias against Bunny's, they should ask to recuse themselves. But to make of mockery at an official public meeting is a disgrace. | ||
| Deidra Citizen Username: Deidralynn Post Number: 627 Registered: 6-2004  |
Since Lizziecat has banned me from "inserting" myself in So. Orange business, I am so glad to see Entertainer's response to her. Right on point and kudos to Phenixrising also. ...and MHD, enough already with the video clip. We get it! Sheesh! | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4333 Registered: 5-2001 |
Deidra, Actually, I don't think you do "get it", if you defend that behavior. Even though I consider him a friend, I haven't tried to defend John Pogany's post on here because it was wrong. You need to see past your own bias and admit what Stacey & Bill did was wrong. | ||
| phd6786 Citizen Username: Phd6786 Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2006 |
entertainer and mjh, you, as a member of the public, have every right to not want to renew Bunny's liquor license because John told you to kiss his white arse. But if you were not just a member of the public, but an official elected to grant liquor licenses to establishments that merit it, like trustee Jennings is, then it's a different story. Then you would decide to grant or not a liquor license based on the business practices of the establishment, setting aside any personal feelings you might have about the owners of the establishment. To my knowledge Bunny's has no complaints about bad business practices, and no alcohol license violations. Trustee Jennings singled out one business, Bunny's, from renewing its liquor license for personal reasons. She abused her powers as a Village trustee and member of the Alcohol Licenses Board to satisfy the personal vendetta she has with John Pogany. She breached the residents' trust to govern fairly and for the good of the community and for what? To get even. Outrageous! And what message does her action send to prospective new businesspeople who see that an elected official uses her position to get even with an established business in town? Trustee Jennings has already shown in the past her insensitivity to the Village's businesses with her public statement that she doesn't shop in town. Now she topped that. Congratulations are in order.  | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 636 Registered: 5-2001 |
I don't really think so, but whatever. I think Jennings knew perfectly well Bunny's liquor license was perfectly safe. She made a statement, and I'm sure many of her constituents would support it. Like it or not, she does have constituents who voted for her, and as such, she speaks for them. And I would question exactly who has a personal vandetta in this drama. More than one person, I dare say. Since I'm not one of them (as I live in Maplewood), I'll back out. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1758 Registered: 9-2004 |
Trustee Jennings singled out one business, Bunny's, from renewing its liquor license for personal reasons. She abused her powers as a Village trustee and member of the Alcohol Licenses Board to satisfy the personal vendetta she has with John Pogany. She breached the residents' trust to govern fairly and for the good of the community and for what? To get even. Outrageous! What's OUTRAGEOUS phd6786 is that you are assuming your above statement is the reason why she abstained. How is she abusing her powers? Noone knows her reason for abstaining but Stacy herself. She did NOT vote against Bunny's license. A difference. My earlier post of referring to Pogany's statement was more of sarcasm when someone ask why she abstained. In no way I am assuming that Stacy is making it personal. However, there are plenty of folks who don't care for Pogany's Archie Bunkerism statements on this site and perhaps they have their own issue with him. Also, to refer to an afro hair salon and lumping them into "drug dealing" is outrageous and demeaning and he didn't give a hoot it he hurt these business owners. abstain To refrain from something voluntarily. ***************************** Working with certain public officials in my business, some DO abstain from voting on particular issues because of a "conflict of interest." Who knows, maybe she's a member of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers)? If I was a member I would refrain from any establishment that sells liquor. Again, its Stacy's call. Rastro got it right. Calabrese actions were more of an issue than Stacy abstaining from a vote. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1938 Registered: 2-2005  |
Regardless of the reasoning, Stacey could have handled her decision to abstain in a more professional manner. She'd have sounded less bitter if she'd had stated, "I vote in favor of all with the exception of XYZ" instead of "I vote for all except the Leslie SL whatever..." Stacey obviously was being flippant about the matter; however, Calabrese's behavior was an egregious blunder and patently reprehensible. | ||
| entertainer Citizen Username: Entertainer Post Number: 314 Registered: 11-2001 |
These as well as many other issues presented here appear to be, in fact, personal vendettas. If one doesn't agree on an issue, others that share that same position rally in support. Nothing new. Ever watch the President as he addresses Congress? The smirks, sighs, laughs, rolling of eyes, etc...? In the meantime, his supporters are annoyed and agitated by the actions of those across the isle. Happens everyday. It could be worse. Imagine if we were in the British House of Commons! Open, blatant ridicule and mockery! One cannot become over-sensitized by the body language of others. No big deal, if you ask me. We're always trying to read between the lines. I kind of got a chuckle when the gentlemen took issue with Mrs. Jennings alleged "laugh" during his firey sermon. "Something funny..., he demanded?" Over-sensitive. Of course, immediately she was accused of laughing at the town's loss of the grant. Did he actually think ANY of the trustees found that funny?? Ludicrous. phd6786, John Pogany made his bed. Now he has to sleep on it! | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10021 Registered: 4-1997 |
John Pogany is not an elected official. There is a higher standard of ethics for those elected to represent the best interests of all the citizens. It is decidedly not in the interest of all citizens to create an anti-business climate. Again, you need to think of this as an event happening outside the fishbowl of MaplewoodOnline. There is no a priori context for the comments to Joe and Jane citizen watching the meeting at home. It just looks like there's a problem with the business, that South Orange isn't a safe place to open a business, that decision-making is capricious and inexplicable. Comparing Ms Jennings' and Mr Calabrese's remarks to political banter of President Bush poking fun at Congress misses the point. When was the last time you heard the President bashed a company like IBM, Microsoft or Motorola? | ||
| entertainer Citizen Username: Entertainer Post Number: 316 Registered: 11-2001 |
Dave, actually YOU missed the point. In order not to bore those who DID get the point, I guess I'll leave that point alone. ...and who cares if Bush did bash a company. I'm intelligent enough to do the proper research and make my own decisions. Besides, the president has too much to lose to go after IBM, Microsoft, Motorola... I give him credit for that. I could be naive, but I don't think that potential business owners are watching and making major business decisions based on what they see on Columbia TV (no disrespect intended). S.O. unsafe to open a business, you ask? Well, if a local businesses can disrespect town officials with vulgar requests for "kiss my...you know the drill", why would I want to have a business in that Wild West town...? Works both ways. | ||
| PRETTYPRINCESS Citizen Username: Prettyprincess Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2006 |
"People are elected to serve ALL the people. If either of them have a PERSONAL bias against Bunny's, they should ask to recuse themselves." VERY well said. I don't understand how this continues to be debated. IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Trustee Jennings singled out one business, Bunny's, from renewing its liquor license for personal reasons. She abused her powers as a Village trustee and member of the Alcohol Licenses Board to satisfy the personal vendetta she has with John Pogany. She breached the residents' trust to govern fairly and for the good of the community and for what? To get even. Outrageous! I am glad there are still some GOOD people in South Orange. SOME.   | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1760 Registered: 9-2004 |
John Pogany is not an elected official. But he sure did try to run for one! Thank goodness I was able to see HIS true colors advertised on this board. Imagine HIM on the BOT. NOT!  | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3454 Registered: 5-2004 |
Entertainer, one big difference is that Mr. Pogany made his remarks in the confines of this message board. Public, yes but not an official meeting of the Town. Calabrese and Jennings made their remarks as part of a public meeting. Besides, Mr. Pogany does not purport to represent me. Calabrese and Jennings do. I want my representatives to show a bit of decorum. As I said previously, I'm not as bothered by Jennings comments. I think she should have been more clear as to whether she intended to abstain or vote no, but either way she had no effect on the end result. Calabrese, on the other hand, came off as a complete buffoon. | ||
| PRETTYPRINCESS Citizen Username: Prettyprincess Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2006 |
Phnx rising: Why didnt you run? I am pretty sure based on the personality that you display on this board you would MAYBE have been lucky enough to have gotten ONE vote. FROM YOURSELF. NO SERIOUSLY. | ||
| PRETTYPRINCESS Citizen Username: Prettyprincess Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2006 |
Next time you personally attack a person on here try to keep in mind they have families. Have a nice day.    | ||
| buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 5192 Registered: 5-2001  |
 I love this picture ^ Good point PrettyPrincess. It is really easy to anonymously attack someone. The people who are the nastiest, almost never use their real name. Most of the venom pointed at your Dad are from people hiding from their statements. I've said this many times... I normally post silly stuff in the virtual cafe because it is fun and harmless. I (should) stay out of the political threads. If I had a real problem with someone, I'd talk to them in person about it. I also keep away from it because I'm a sap. People fighting seems like a waste of time. Time spent from trying to do something. I wish all of you luck in finding better local government. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10022 Registered: 4-1997 |
huh? | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1329 Registered: 7-2005 |
I still don't understand what personal attacks have to do with the person having a family. |
