| Author | Message | ||
     Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 627 Registered: 1-2004  |
As he has stated in the past he doesn't read e:mail. My assumption was that the Village Clerk will forward him a "hardcopy". | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 975 Registered: 5-2004  |
Howard, I hope you will share the response you get on this thread. | ||
| buddybak Citizen Username: Buddybak Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2006 |
Go for it Howard: It's about time someone took action against the VP. | ||
| entertainer Citizen Username: Entertainer Post Number: 334 Registered: 11-2001 |
MHD, These are ear-marked construction sites, aren't they...?? Yes, I still feel good! I could just as easily show you endless WONDERFUL pictures of our town to counter these four images, but would not want to invade the privacy of residents and business properties owners on-line. I'm sure you understand. Over the weekend I visited some lovely neighborhoods in Summit and Plainfield. In the downtown areas both contained a couple of closed/abandoned stores and lots. So...? And where there were empty lots before, there are now convenient, nicely kept businesses. Just as these prior eyesores became beautiful properties, so will ours. And if I wanted my town to compare to Maplewood, Livingston, or Millburn - I would have moved there... Duh! Steve Hickson, I'm not trying to get you to go away. Please, Oh please stay. I'm obviously not letting you make me go away. You, MHD, and bets have a "say" just as we all do, but realize that you don't speak for ALL of S.O. 3 + "a lot of people" just doesn't really tip the scale if you ask me... At least not on my planet... You should visit there sometime when you're not in Uranus. Sorry, couldn't resist. Dave, You're correct. The BoT and another other entity should be held accountable for mismangement of re-development. However, all I'm basically hearing is...our town sucks, been going down hill since..., crack house, dump, ... You can continue to give each other high-five's and pats on the butt for circulating ugly pictures of our fine town and feeding frenzy, if that helps you prove your point. But, I'm not willing to simply let this negative press, poisonous influence, and destructive publicity go on without some counter-statements from the other side of the street, if you will. People enjoy coming to visit me in my town. | ||
| Stevef Citizen Username: Stevef Post Number: 215 Registered: 5-2005  |
Destructive publicity? Do you think a few digital photos on a message board reach more people than the blighted lots reach to daily riders along S. Orange Ave? | ||
| red_alert Citizen Username: Red_alert Post Number: 293 Registered: 3-2005 |
Howard, Your e-mail should also be forwarded to the NJ Office of the Inspector General. http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/FOIA/hotline.htm | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4350 Registered: 5-2001  |
Stevef, ...or the view of South Orange that all the daily riders of NJ Transit get every day as they pull into our Station...  | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1761 Registered: 9-2004  |
Phenixrising, so your continued slander of John Pogany is why? Because you think Pizzas=John Pogany? Why do you think that? What does it even mean? SOrising, Continue to slander? I just copied in pasted exactly what POGANY wrote! He is the one who put-his-foot in-his mouth! And by doing so, he assumed another business of “dealing drugs.” THOSE business owners have families too! It isn't just that your reasoning is absurd. Your lack of good will and enmity are a corrosive influence on this board and the community it represents. Why are you like this? You act more like Phenixtrashed, Phenixhumiliated or Phenixgolemmed than the moniker you claim. Hey…Thanks for the insults! Strange when one speaks the truth how another can TWIST & MISCONSTRUE the whole point. Like I wrote before, (or did you chose to ignore), I have nothing against Leslie (she seems like a sweet lady) and the rest of the family, but in the writings of Pizzaz AKA John Pogany, I do take issue. Do a bit of research on other arguments on this board with Pogany. His opinions can be way-out-of-line and insulting. Or, do you turn a blind eye to that. And I did state earlier on this thread (or did you chose to ignore that too) that the rest of the Pogany family should NOT be held ACCOUNTABLE for his callous comments. SoOrLady & Rastro Thanks. I think SOrising is blinded by the truth. “As I've been reflecting on this, I feel that if a trustee votes against renewing a liquor license (or any kind of license renewal like this), some reason should be given. That way the perception of impropriety is dispelled.” Rastro DITTO!!! Hopefully, this will happen at the next BOT and we shall also see if an apology is made. | ||
| StellaLuna Citizen Username: Stellaluna Post Number: 53 Registered: 6-2005 |
First, I would like to say that I will never enter Bunny's again. However, votes of a public official regarding a business should never be based on a personal vendetta as appears to be the case with Ms. Jennings. She and Mr. Calabrese were poorly behaved vis-a-vis Bunny's and should be censured. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5562 Registered: 1-2004  |
Stella Why won't you ever go to Bunny's again? Leslie didn't do anything to anyone and she owns it. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23459 Registered: 6-2001  |
Ear-marked construction sites? EAR-MARKED CONSTRUCTION SITES??? If it wasn't so sad I would be laughing out loud at Entertainer's depiction of the downtown undevelopment. Pathetic. StellaLuna, such drama! "I will never enter Bunny's again." Your loss, not theirs. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3638 Registered: 5-2001  |
As hard as it is to believe, there are some of us in town who WON'T patronize Bunny's for a variety of reasons yet find what the VP said sotto voce very disturbing. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 628 Registered: 1-2004 |
He may have meant "to speak under one's breath" (sotto voce) but it is my opinion that it was an on the record comment and hopefully recorded in the minutes. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3639 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks, Howard, but I know the definition and I don't believe it was meant to be an on the record comment. (Un)fortunately it was picked up by the mike and broadcast for all to hear. | ||
| StellaLuna Citizen Username: Stellaluna Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2005 |
My point in mentioning that I will not go to Bunny's again, is so that people will know I am not a Bunny's fanatic yet found our officials' comments unprofessional. Even the anti-Bunny crowd finds their (VP and trustee) comments worthy of censure. That is why I found it necessary to mention my displeasure with the establishment. I am not alone with said displeasure, yet many of us simply found the behavior of the aforementioned officials unprofessional and worse than juvenile. | ||
| Steve Hickson Citizen Username: Shickson Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2006  |
Entertainer, I hope you are having a wonderful 4th and thanks for including a little "rectal" humor in your post---well done---we could always use some more anal chat on MOL. Now back to the issues. I believe everyone in South Orange just got their quarterly tax bills---I know I did---and it's hefty. Now, I don't mind paying high taxes if I feel like positive progress is being made. And turing around our business district will take some serious financial resources. I've only been here a couple of years but I'm beginning to wonder what progress is being made? What is being done? Is this the best our local government can do? During the last ten years our country has enjoyed perhaps it's biggest economic boom in history. Midtown Direct train service has made it much easier to commute from bedroom communities like ours in Essex County. And our neighbors like Maplewood, Millburn, Summit and Livingston have all enjoyed dramatic improvements in their towns and local economies. So what's happening here? Why does everything take so long? Why do we have a crack-house on South Orange Avenue? Why do we pay $250K for artwork when we have holes in the roof of our public library? Why does our Village President and the BOT openly criticize and make accusations of illegal activities about one of our more viable businesses? South Orange is a great town---that's why my late wife and I moved here a little over two years ago. It's an easy commute to New York, the demographics of the town are attractive (in other words income levels that are attractive to new commercial interests), great housing stock and great neighboring towns like Maplwood, Millburn and West Orange. This is a very marketable community and its just a mystery why we're not making progress while our neighbors are. Bill Calabrese and the BOT have a very tough job---no question about it---with all the challenges, opinions and egos in this town. I do respect how difficult that must be. But, we have to ask more of our local government right now. To make the right decisions on our behalf, to spend our tax dollars wisely, to stimulate new commercial ventures, to support and not denigrate our local businesses---and perhaps, most importantly, to have a master plan and execute against that plan. Again Entertainer, thank you for your post---and if you still believe that my head is up my buttocks than I guess I'm guilty as charged. But there are a lot of folks dissatisfied with the current status and direction of this town. Hopefully the next elections will prove that out. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 1809 Registered: 5-2005  |
Well, If Steve Hiickson is guilty of his head up his rear end, then I suppose I must be too. I stood up at a BOT meeting when I first heard about Tau (Feb/March 06?) and asked why they were spending the money on Tau with our library the way it is, our Village Hall the way it is etc. I think the analogy I gave was that you go and buy a wonderful work of art, go home and hammer a nail into your wall to hang it, the plaster crumbles off the wall as it was in dire need of repair, but you SO wanted the artwork...... nothing else mattered. Now you definately need the wall repaired, but now you have no money..... Whichever BOT we have, they are never going to have an easy ride, and I know that there are members of our board who do care, but I have been here 4 years and apart from SOPAC, I cannot remember one thing being built/bringing funds into our town. I am not being sarcastic when I ask that if I am wrong, please correct me. I stood up at the most recent BOT meeting and asked the following: We have a hole in our budget. I remember reading the minutes of a meeting within the last 2 years that said that obviously buildings were demolished (no taxes coming in) to enable new development etc to be erected. The buildings etc have not been erected and therefore the anticipated taxes which were factored into our budget have not come online.... therefore we have a "hole".... this means that money needed for our general town upkeep it not there. I then asked that since we have this "hole" where is the additional money being taken from for Tau? I was pretty much told not to factor Tau into my question, so I said fine, I will take "That" out, and I said again, buildings have been knocked down, no taxes coming in, buildings are meant have gone up already, they haven't, so no taxes coming in.... we have a "hole".... "Other" items are being spent on..... where is the money coming from/being taken from to pay for these items... I felt the answers given weren't fully thought out, and they opened up a whole new can of worms.. I have work needed on my house, every home owners does, so even if I see a wonderful work of art, that I would love on my formal living room wall, I will dream and dream of it, until one day that I have either a) won the lottery b) saved up to buy it outright c) been given it totally with no financial outlay or legal obligation to me I hear that the Tau will bring people to town to dicuss and gaze, to peruse and to contemplate, and varying things like this... With this and SOPAC, I am also left asking, where they are all going to park? A Trustee talks about the "New Demographic" of this town.... I live here, I shop here, I eat here, I SPEND MONEY here, I pay taxes here, I park here, I love the town I live in... THAT makes ME the "new demographic" ....... AND THIS NEW DEMOGRAPHIC WANTS THINGS TO GET BETTER FOR ALL THE OTHER "NEW DEMOGRAPHICS" OUT THERE... | ||
| fiche Citizen Username: Fiche Post Number: 178 Registered: 3-2002 |
Stella and Library Lady. For the record, I am a Bunny's fan. Thank you for putting aside your feelings about Bunny's to recognize what was said by the VP and Ms. Jenning's spite vote were out of line (to say the least). Without a doubt, this is a mark of a true American. Happy Fourth of July to your and to all. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 1810 Registered: 5-2005 |
I second Fiche's post.. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23469 Registered: 6-2001 |
I third Fiche's post. Well said. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5566 Registered: 1-2004 |
Thanks Stella! I'm glad you explained this. Luckily there are people like you and LL who can separate the two feelings. Hopefully people with opinions similar to yours will write letters to the Snooze Wreckered and speak out at the next BOT Meeting. I do respect your opinion and LL's too. It's too bad though Leslie is the one who gets hurt as she is completely innocent in all of this. She has never once said anything nasty. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5567 Registered: 1-2004 |
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| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2042 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm going to say it again -- the pace is absurdly slow because the Planning Board and BOT continue to select and allow lame, marginal developers into town. Its the developers that can't plan, can't figure out their finances, and are myopic, to put it mildly. HOWEVER -- that fact that neither the Planning Board or the BOT have the guts to pull the plug on these fiascos is incredible. BTW -- please, realize the Planning Board is probably worse than the BOT -- they are supposed to be independent, but please, watch a couple of sessions and gag. The solution -- throw out Sayid immediately (get a new developer), give Sterling and Beifus (or whoever) a "line in the sand" date (can't do much more, since the developers agreements are inked), but plan for options. Ultimately -- plan now for new candidates for the next BOT election! Pete | ||
| John Glick Citizen Username: Jgg Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2005 |
Petegilder- I agree with you that the problems with these projects goes to the developers that have been selected. When you look at projects that have been completed in other towns recently such as Livingston, it is clear that having a quality developer in place leads to projects being completed in a reasonable period of time which ultimately benefits the community at large. The problem with our government is that nothing is done to push out the developers on these stagnant projects which the public at large is complaining about. Moreover, on the rare occasion where a quality developer wants to be involoved in a project which will benefit South Orange from its current stagnant state such as on Valley Street, out government is either gun shy to move forward on such projects due to other failures within the community or attempts to walk a middle ground so as to not ruffle any feathers which results in nothing ever getting done as progress is ultimately left to individual property owners who have no incentive or in many cases any money to fix up their properties. As a result, until our government stops worrying about hurting a few peoples feelings, stagnation in South Orange will continue, while many other surrounding communities continue to progress. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3640 Registered: 5-2001 |
Fishe, For the record, I think Trustee Jennings did the right thing by abstaining from voting on the Liquior license for Bunny's. An abstention is just that, not a no vote. Since she did NOT want her personal feelings to interfere with her vote, the absention was the proper way to go. Politicans use it all the time when they have a persanl relationship to the voting matter and it would be unfair to all parties to cast a vote. What Bill said should not have reached public ears and it was a stupid slip of the tongue. I am sure we have all said things in public that we wished we hadn't but when you are President of the Village you should be a little more restrained. | ||
| fiche Citizen Username: Fiche Post Number: 180 Registered: 3-2002 |
Nancy, I agree with you. As far as Jenning's vote, if you watch it, she didn't have abstention necessarily in her mind and if you watch the video you will see that the choice for abstention came only after she was offered the choice between a no vote and absention and, I beleive (only from watching the body language) that by then she had rethought her behavior. By the time she clarified with an absention, at least 3-5 minutes had passed since she was only asked after the votes for the private clubs and package stores had also taken place. Nevertheless, I would forgive her more easily than the pres since he is a seasoned pol and she is a "freshman". I just think it was stupid on both their parts, not worthy of a recall or whatever, but certainly an apology is warranted. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1639 Registered: 3-2002 |
Mr. Glick, Regarding your post...I think that our town has two issues on redevelopment. One, which you mention, is allowing inept developers to stagnate. The other, which we are at risk of doing, is allowing a large well-connected "quality developer" to move forward with a total transformation of our downtown, with major PILOT agreements for residential property, in a town which has not done a real update of its overall town plan since I was in high school (in the 1970s). They are both real town-planning sins, and the presence of one does not create a mandate for the other. Let's not use Beifus as an excuse to move forward on Millennium in the absense of proper planning, process and debate. (do you ever post on any issue other than pushing forward the Millennium plan?) | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3880 Registered: 11-2001  |
Interesting observations, Susan. | ||
| John Glick Citizen Username: Jgg Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2005 |
Susan1014: It is my understanding that planning, process and debate are currently ongoing with regard to the Valley Street project. That has nothing to do with the fact that it is clear that our government moves very slowly in all aspects of development within the Village and at a certain point in time things need to move forward. Constant discussion about planning and process is apparently not getting the Village anywhere as our government does not seem to be able to move the process along at any king of reasonable rate of speed. I'm sure if we were to have a debate on putting a plan in place at the point of next years election, I'd be willing to bet we will be not much further along than where we are now. Additionally, I choose to post about redevelopment issues because it is quite apparent that South Orange looks horrible (and that is putting in lightly) compared to other surrounding communities that have alot less to offer than our town does. Just because I choose to have some life and not spend endless hours on this message board complaining about every issue under the sun like posiibly you do does not make me any less of a concerned citizen that wants my town to make progress at some point in the foresseable future. If you have a problem with that, sorry. | ||
| kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 796 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's like putting make-up on a pig. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1640 Registered: 3-2002 |
No, Mr. Glick, you are welcome to be a one issue poster. I'm just not clear on whether or not you are an involved party on this issue. Personally, I have no significant connections to any downtown property holder, renter or potential developer. I'm just a taxpayer who loves this town. As such, I just don't like the way that Millennium has been trying to get their plan approved before it is discussed in a thoughtful way. Some of the major advertising, for example, has been a bit much. Much as I think some very obvious parts of our town are a mess, I don't think that we should put the cart before the horse on redevelopment of a scale that would change our downtown dramatically. The ineptitude of some of our town government does not mean that we should go forward without discussion. If the plan is a good one now, it will still be a good one in 12-18 months. Also, perhaps we won't need to give as sweet a deal on a PILOT once some of our other lagging projects are complete?? | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1641 Registered: 3-2002 |
And yes, I have trouble with anyone who suggests that a posting or two a day means that I don't "choose to have some life and not spend endless hours on this message board complaining about every issue under the sun" If you want to be in the debate here, don't go out of your way to insult the other participants for being a bit more broadly engaged than you. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 452 Registered: 2-2006 |
Rastro (if you're still around), you wrote: "SOrising, it is common knowledge that Pizzaz is John Pogany. And unless he has provided his username and password to someone else, he does have 'sole and exclusive use of it.'" Common knowledge of this kind is not the most reliable, R, but I agree with your second sentence entirely. It seems doubtful that many people know whether Mr. Pogany provided a username and password to someone else. Yet more than one person on this board did not hesitate to disparage him publicly for remarks he may, or may not, have made. False certitude hardly warrants the calumny they have created and directed against Mr. Pogany. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5570 Registered: 1-2004 |
If anyone wants to know whether or not Pizzaz actually made the comments in question or not, why not go into Bunny's and ask him face to face? Even if he tells you 'Yes,' that does not give anyone on the BOT to say what they did about him. If he tells you he did say them; why not ask why he said them? Oh, wait! If you do some from MOL might call you a busy body! Well, so be it. At least if you ask John directly about these coments, you will get a direct answer form him about postings from his screen name. John might be wrong for the alleged comments, but both Stacey and Calbrese were more wrong. If either of these elected officials had a problem with John, then talk to him personally in private; do not take it out on an innocent person -Leslie, by trashing her business. She has done nothing and does not deserve to be treated this way. How would Stacey feel if someone who had a school related issues with her husband took it out on her? Does Bill even realize the embarrassment his comments have brought to his own children? | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2005  |
Bill's comments no more embarrassed his own children than Pizzaz's embarrased his or Jennings hers. (and if people act like they did, they're the ones with the problem.) | ||
| John Glick Citizen Username: Jgg Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2005 |
Susan1014: My response to you was not intended to be an insult but rather a reaction to your dig from my initial post drawing a conclusion that because I only post on redevelopment that I must be connected in some way to the Valley Street project. In fact you alluded to this point that I might be involved in the project in some way in your post 1640. If you don't what people to take shots at you then you should not take digs at someone whose viewpoint differs from your opinion, notwithstanding whether they choose to post on a frequent basis or not. At the end of the day I believe that we both are interested in seeing our Village improved. Where we differ from my perspective is that I am glad that a quality developer has an interest in building a project which in the long run in my opinion would improve the property values in town, in addition to providing better shopping and eating alternatives than currently exist. The fact remains that based on past history it is apparent that South Orange has been unable to attract quality developers, possibly for among other reasons that the town is reluctant to make changes in how areas are designated which would entice developers to want to work in the village and make the needed improvements. If this trend continues it doesn't matter whether its Millenium or another developer as no developer will want to touch Valley Street and changes will be left in the hands of property owners who may not have the desire or finances to make improvements. I hope that this does not occur as clearly that area has been stagnant for to long. | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 200 Registered: 12-2004 |
The "trend" that you refer to, Mr. Glick, is our "local government." It has made many errors of judgment, exacerbating the difficult process of redevelopment. For example, and I speak as a property owner on Valley Street, it now wants to put my property into a "Special Improvement District" and tax me for this privilege, and at the same time, it wants my property to be in the "Redevelopment" Zone, which has had the effect of "redlining" it. That is schizophrenic. It is like the "push-me, pull-me" llama of Dr. Doolittle. What is the direction? Ironically, in the early 1980's, the local banks that were in existence at the time, "redlined" the areas of South Orange east of the railroad tracks, and this was the cause of great concern and public criticism. Translated, that means the banks would not give mortgages, at least not readily, for properties in the "redlined" areas. In today's parlance, "redevelopment" does exactly the same thing. Once a property owner learns that there is even "talk" about redevelopment, he must disclose that fact to a prospective purchaser, which, in turn, will kill deals. Translated, one can no longer sell property once it is in redevelopment. The solution, in my opinion, is that if a local government wants to tease with redevelopment, it better be in a financial position to pay the landowner for the detrimental loss in a reasonably short period of time. Otherwise, I think the concept is unconstitutional. Because there is no cohesive ideology guiding our local government, we have this fractured result, much to the dismay of the taxpayers. A good government would be on good terms with the landowners and would know how to deal with them. We are not governed by seasoned business people and they are not equipped to deal with this issue. How can we solve this problem? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro  Post Number: 3496 Registered: 5-2004  |
SOrising, It's a bit ridiculous to claim that John did not write what was written under his pseudonym. Like him or hate him, like what he said or deplore it, agree with him or disagree, fine. But let's not try to make it out as if it's really possible (or likely) he didn't write it. Personally, I didn't take his comment as racist. Definitely uncalled for (and in my mind, immature), but not racist. Just as I wouldn't take it as being racist if Stacey had told him to "kiss her black •••." As I said above, however, I am less bothered by her actions at the meeting than those of our illustrious leader, Bill Calabrese. I truly hope the News Record picks up some of the antipathy that this interchange brought out. | ||
| red_alert Citizen Username: Red_alert Post Number: 299 Registered: 3-2005 |
Even if the comments were made "under ones breath", there still needs to be a level of decorum, and of all people the VP should know better. The issue is a matter of record and actions should be taken to resolve this incident and put checks in place so that it doesn't happen again. The responsiblities of the BOT need to be take seriously; and for a few, it isn't. Conflicts of interest, lying, slander, and even lack of attendence should not be tolerated. Indpendent bodies that can take action (some I posted before) NJ Inspector General (I put the federal link before by mistake, here's the correct one) http://www.state.nj.us/oig/ Essex County Inspector General: http://www.co.essex.nj.us/ (under departments) Inspector General Dominic J. Scaglione - (T) 973-621-7547 Investigator Michael McGaughran (T) 973-621-4423 Investigator Ronald Romano (T) 973-621-5220 | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 746 Registered: 4-2005  |
I absolutely agree that Bill's statements were incredibly outrageous and quite frankly, I don't care if he said them under his breath or screamed it at the top of his lungs. But I would add, that before we march on village hall for a resolution or censure or call for meeting decorum - maybe we should request a public apology first... Doubt he'll give it, but everyone makes mistakes and it is far less embarrassing to admit a flop rather than face residents who want you censured. As far as Trustee Jennings - I think there's an obvious history and if she can't issue an objective vote, she would need to abstain as she did. Had the end result been a vote of 'no', I would definitely have some concerns. But inevitably she had a couple seconds to think about it and the abstention is reasonable. Although 'full-disclosures' on votes are nice from elected officials, they are by no way a mandate. |
