| Author | Message | ||
     Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 969 Registered: 5-2004  |
And I still want to know who funded that mailing? Is this how they are using the estimated $50K they claim to have raised at their Gala fundraiser this May? | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1636 Registered: 3-2002 |
No, as far as I can tell their public strategy is much more about marginalizing and undermining opposition than anything else. If they can get a couple of signers to believe that you misled them, that is the trophy that they want, I'm afraid! Still waiting for anyone from the fundraising project to respond to the funding comments that were made at the recent BOT meeting! | ||
| vermontgolfer Supporter Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 478 Registered: 12-2002 |
MHD,\ Be damned the letter. No reason to apologize to those of us who signed the petition. Those who need to apologize are the TSP folks and our BOT, not you. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" ENOUGH ALREADY! | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23449 Registered: 6-2001  |
I got one, signed by Holzman. Seems like a desperate move by a desperate organization with close ties to the Village government. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4347 Registered: 5-2001  |
I am happy to report that all street addresses have now been removed from public view on the Online Petition. All that is publicly visible now are the names & comments of those who have signed. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2005  |
So how do we know that only South Orangers are signing? | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 704 Registered: 6-2005 |
It wouldn't be a bad idea for residents who have gotten this most recent mailing to send a letter to the sender with a copy to the BOT's and the folks in the NewsRecord photos of the gala. It is very presumptuous for the sender to assume that the TS project is only being used to express frustration for other things wrong in town. There is plenty wrong in town that needs fixing, but using taxes for this sculpture, the lies which were told about the funding, the lack of discourse with the public...these are wrong in their own right, and need not be tied to other things. Trust me, they speak for themselves. And for a group which continuouslly courts favor with the BOT's with their cookies and t-shirts and accolades for their "visionary position", it is the height of irony for them to bemoan the state of the village themselves in their publications. All they need do is look to the terrible state of our public buildings and streetscapes and roads to see to the future of what this scultpure will look like in the ensuing years. Finally, it is the height of absurdity to say our housing values will drop if we don't get this statue, or that they will rise if we do. This is absolute nonsense. Our housing values are dependent on our taxes, mid-town direct, our schools, our downtown and crime stats. Get real. | ||
| buddybak Citizen Username: Buddybak Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2006 |
Ask for a complete Audit for the Tony Smith Committee as it is a nonprofit org.; and a complete filing with the towns finances for the project behind it. | ||
| talk-it-up Citizen Username: Talkitup Post Number: 248 Registered: 3-2004 |
I found the letter very threatening to the residents of South Orange coming from another resident of South Orange. I find it even more offensive that looking at the names of the different groups one notices that many of the people suporting and driving this project are NOT EVEN RESIDENTS OF SOUTH ORANGE. The to add insult to injury we are threatened with wasting money if we don't proceed with their project. I find it extremely offensive that this is the most negative letter addressing signers of a petition. I am offended everytime they critize the gazebo - THE GAZEBO IS OFFENSIVE AND WASTEFUL? PIDGEONS? USELESS? The gazebo was placed knowing EXACTLY WHERE THE ARTS CENTER WOULD LAND. THE GAZEBO IS NOT WASTEFUL THE TRUSTEES THAT HAVE VOTED THIS PROJECT ARE WASTEFUL. THE GAZEBO SHOULD STAY. Basically leave well enough alone. I think the Smith Supporters shold put up or shut up. If you can raise the money and South Orange can provide AN EMPTY AND APPROPRIATE SITE then when this group has raised the money install the sculpture. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING OR WHERE IT IS HAPPENING OR WHAT THE RESULT WILL LOOK LIKE. IF, this project goes through what a wake up call that will be. This election no contect. I do not think the people of South Orange will put up with this any longer! | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4349 Registered: 5-2001 |
Once again, Tracey Randinelli NAILS IT with her latest blog: http://www.nj.com/weblogs/southorange/ How the heck can we nominate HER for Villager of the Month, Year or even Century? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 741 Registered: 4-2005  |
I second the nomination of Tracey R for Villager of the Century. MHD - I think we should start our own organization called the TR Foundation - ask the BOT for $250,000 (of course at the taxpayers expense) and have a professional come in and basically... sculpt Tracey. We can then, of course, tear down the TS sculpture and move it somewhere else (that will come from the village purse as well) and then fabricate Tracey.... it all makes sense... QUESTION Alright, I hate feeling stupid but I'm slowly getting there. Someone try and help me out... I'm going to break this down to the lowest common denominator and I'm sorry if I sound like a 3 year old. - Money was granted for SOPAC and then transfered over to TAU --> I think the BOT referred to it as simply 'changing pockets'. Okay... so if that money was meant for SOPAC - doesn't it now mean that because the grant was tranferred that SOPAC suffered as a result? Am I making sense because I'm still feeling this level of stupidity... OKAY... I feel like breaking it down some more... let's visit 3rd grade math. There are 3 friends - MHD, BETS & HOWARD and all 3 want to go to the movies. MHD and BETS have their tickets but Howard doesn't... So, MHD decides he's going to steal BETS' ticket and give it to Howard. Now Howard is all excited because he now has a movie ticket. Uh Oh... but now BETS doesn't have one.... what do you do? My common sense tells me that with respect to my example - while TAU got $250k -SOPAC was out $250k when money "changed pockets"... Do you guys get where I'm coming from? Or did I miss something? Late night posts are my weakness...} | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5557 Registered: 1-2004  |
I googled "Tony Smith Sculpture Project" to see what I'd come up with. Was somewhat shocked. One Blog entry. Two references to the Gaslight Three references to three different websites: The Tony Smith Sculpture Project www.tonysmithfoundation.org/ The Tony Smith Sculpture Project www.thetonysmithproject.org/ The Tony Smith Sculpture Project www.tonysmithsculptureproject.org/ WOW!!! I thought. There is finally not one, but three websites that just might answer some of the taxpayers questions! I thought back in February Cheryl said there would be no website! All I can say is PERFECT!!! It answered a lot of my questions!  | ||
| Tracey Randinelli Citizen Username: Traceyr Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2005 |
MHD and Sheena: You guys are too kind...  (And Sheena, you are TOO funny! If you're going to ask the BOT for $250,000 in my name, please make it for that Tuscan villa I've had my eye on. And while you're at it, you might as well go for a cool mil!  | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4351 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sheena, First of all, I would never steal Bets' ticket. Scalp a ticket to her, maybe, but never steal. Secondly, you need to listen to ALL of Calabrese's explanations, which vary widely and contradict each other: Using 3rd grade math: Explanation 1: All 3 tickets are GIFTS. (but POPCORN still costs $250,000) Explanation 2: Special promotion provides a GRANT for all 3 tickets and the popcorn (except we later find out that the promotion is only valid down the street and cannot be used for this project.) Explanation 3: We borrowed money for streets, sidewalks and roadway improvements. (Yet somehow we managed to use $250,000 of that money to buy movie tickets & popcorn) Explanation 4: Your example above I think a sculpture of Tracey would be a much better idea.  | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro  Post Number: 3467 Registered: 5-2004  |
Sheena, The problem is that with all the varying comment made, there is obviously confusion about where the money is coming from. The bottom line is, there is no grant money for this. It is coming from a bond. Period. No money was moved from SOPAC to Tau. That was what the BOT told everyone, but then they corrected themselves when people like MHD were persistent with their questions. A bond ordinance was passed that hid the funding for Tau in a sidewalks and street repair bond. In fact, the only way to know Tau was part of that is to read the minutes from the | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 645 Registered: 1-2006 |
Deception most foul jd | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 355 Registered: 2-2005 |
I don't think the letter helped the "Pro Taxes For Tau" camp at all and simply used up some of the money that have gone towards paying back our taxes. I am thinking of sending a donation for Tau and earmarking to be used to pay back the town ONLY and for no other purpose. TTFN! (Tau Tau for now!) | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5568 Registered: 1-2004 |
All this letter has done is make people more upset with the 'Sculpture People.' This letter was even being discussed by people in Elizabeth yesterday! | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2006 |
As I said before, Public Sculpture equals Public Debate. All is well and healthy in South Orange. Do you think we should have a major international sculpture in all the parks? | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 706 Registered: 6-2005 |
I would want our parks to be properly maintained...the trees cared for and dead ones replaced, the walkways properly constructed, the buildings and structures like the skatehouse and Baird restored, the grounds manicured with appropriate plantings, the fields and viewing areas cared for properly, the pool and surrounding buffer areas landscaped. After that, we can talk about whether we should put scultpure in our parks...international pieces, AK-47's or anything else. And then after the public discourse on whether to have them, and if the concensus is "yes", then we can talk about who should pay for them. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2006 |
That sounds like a plan. Also you have suggested that botanical gardens and displays can be quite interesting and prove to be a worthy civic project. Nothing wrong, if South Orange was known for botanical projects. That could stimulate a good reputation. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 1814 Registered: 5-2005  |
South Orange being a well maintained town and a beautiful place to live would I think, stimulate a good reputation all on its own. Anything above and beyond that would just be icing on a wonderful cake... | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2006 |
SOparents -- I agree with you; I believe Maplewood and South Orange are good towns with much to be proud of. Sometimes when you read these threads, it is hard to remember how great these towns are. Nothing like a good pound cake to be sure, but you will admit even the Brits like a little jam or icing once in a while. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 1815 Registered: 5-2005 |
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| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2006 |
SOparents, What are folks doing about supporting the NJ Governor about shifting some of the tax burden from property to sales tax. That is how most of the states reduced the heavy burden on property owners. This way, visitors, renters, etc pay a more fair share of the state's expenses. I have noticed a complete absence of comments from individuals on MOL. There is so much heat on matters of tax; and here is a chance for some light. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4352 Registered: 5-2001 |
I guess Fred never heard the expression Think Global, Act Local. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 77 Registered: 3-2006 |
Wrong MHD. What is more local than your property taxes. What is more local then contacting your own State Senator and State Representative to resolve the financial problems of New Jersey. The issue I raise is very local -- it is as close to you as your own wallet. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4353 Registered: 5-2001 |
Contacting your MUNICIPAL representatives to resolve the financial waste and mismanagement of your own town! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5571 Registered: 1-2004 |
MHD "Contacting your MUNICIPAL representatives to resolve the financial waste and mismanagement of your own town!" And Fred not only doesn't live in South Orange, he doesn't live in Essex County or New Jersey! He lives clear across the country!!!  | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 78 Registered: 3-2006 |
JTA. Correction. I have a home in Maplewood which is being renovated and then we move. Two, I spent my first twenty two years in Maplewood and my mother maintained the family home in Maplewood til 1995. But one's idea either stand or fall on their own merit, not where one lives. What is your point? My original comment was that I was quite surprized to find no comments on the NJ shutdown. There are comments on everything else. Two, no one seemed to be concerned that there is a real chance to change some of the tax structure within the State of NJ -- and no one was making a commenting. The Governor is offering an opportunity to reduce the over reliance on property taxes. Complaints about high property taxes abound in MOL, but here is a chance for a real change -- and no comments. Strange. People can put pressure on the NJ Senate and House by calling to resolve this problem. A simple action. I guess complaining is the preferred pass time rather than taking real action. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 1848 Registered: 5-2005 |
Frederick, I am very surprised that the State has "shut down"... I know that there have been several years past where the budget was not finalised etc on time, but the State continued to run. I personally find this a very childish way to act. The words "petulant child" come to mind. That being said, I have no ability to affect anything done at State level, I can e-mail, phone, write letters etc, but that is not going to get anything achieved now (forget the fact that right now there is no-one to take the calls, or read the e-mails or letters!) What I can do however, is put effort into MY town. If you want to get something changed, in my mind you have to start with the small bits and work your way up. If you start big then all the smaller bits are still going wrong which in time will negate anything you have tried to change. No, I don't like paying high taxes, but I pay what I am required to in order to live where we live. I will say though as I have said over and over again, I want those taxed used correctly. I again have no say on how the State uses their portion, but as far as SO goes, I require our taxes to be used to repair and maintain our towns infrastructure. Once we are at a good and solid level, then maybe we can be afforded the luxury of "enhancements". Flowers at the pool or the library, or fireworks on July 4th are separate entities, but when a chunk of our tax payers money it used for an "enhancement" when we have so much that needs to be repaired, that is cause for concern. You state that complaining is the preferred pass time rather than taking real action. I agree with you, there will always be people who are happy to complain, believing "others" will make the effort... but you have to realise that there are people in this town who want to and are, making an effort. I know that you are rennovating your future home in Maplewood and also have a logistical nightmare of a job in relocating your business, but I want you to know that there are people in South Orange who believe dearly in this town, and we want the rot to stop. We want our town to flourish and grow, and become what we know it can be. If my taxes are high, so be it, but use the money the way it is meant to be used. If my taxes go down, great! but again use the money the way it should be used, but if my taxes go up, then I expect to see changes, inprovements etc to our infrastructure to warrant the increase, and I am afraid right now that that is not the case. Frederick, there are people so much more knowledgeable than I am in all aspects of our town government, financial matters, etc etc, and I am so grateful that we have them here, so please understand that my view and beliefs are simply that, my personal views and belief, but they are things that I hold very dear. SOP | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3494 Registered: 5-2004 |
Frederick, you should look at other parts of MOL. The shutdown is being discussed in other sections (Politics). It is not a "South Orange Specific" issue, neither is it related to the Tony Smith Sculpture, as this thread is. If you are really interested in that discussion, as opposed to simply deflecting attention from the sculpture, you mightwant to post there. | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 747 Registered: 4-2005 |
Frederick, I agree with you 100% that the issue should definitely be discussed. I've read the Governor's Budget Plan a million times and participated in the protests against the cuts to education. But I'll just 'ditto' what Rastro said. Soapbox will be a more lively debate. But I will add (thread drift) - I worked on the Corzine Campaign and I've never been so disappointed in him as I am now. Yes, it may help lower property taxes but at the expense of cuts elsewhere and a sales tax. He's trying to do what Clinton did except he's no Clinton, lol. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 79 Registered: 3-2006 |
Sheena, Thanks. I agree about staying on the subject matter. However, I started my comments on voicing support for TAU and even about having more sculpture in the area. In addition, I favor botanical gardens, too. Then, others chimed in with the usual comments -- "I am not against the sculpture, but I am against the way it was done." And then, rants on the high taxes. You have heard them all before. So I answered with an observation about the lack of comments on the recent actions by the Governor concerning the NJ Budget. NJ is over reliant on property taxes, so any shifts away from property taxes can be helpful. No, it will not lower the amount of taxes people pay, but maybe taxes can be spread more fairly. Regardless of the subject, there seems to be a greater willingness to complain then to act. Citizens have a tendency to complain about their governmental officials, but decline to get involved or do something about the problem. There is this old saying -- you get the government you deserve. It's true. -- At least, that is my observation. Rastro made the suggestion about posting on "Politics" thread. Can you tell me where I would find this thread? By the way, I appreciate your endeavoring to keep the record straight on what Seton Hall pays in the way of taxes and fees. Having been a former VP of a college, I know that most people think a university/college gets a free ride? If it were only so. Frederick | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3501 Registered: 5-2004 |
/discus/messages/26018/26018.html?1152118185 Or go to the top of the forum http://www.maplewoodonline.com/forum and scroll down to the Soapbox: All Politics section. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4360 Registered: 5-2001 |
Back to the thread: FACT: South Orange Trustees have committed to spend at least $250,000 of TAX DOLLARS on the fabrication and installation of a Tony Smith Sculpture where the gazebo currently stands on Sloan Street. The Trustees have also committed to use TAX DOLLARS to pay any cost overruns and any balance not covered through fundraising. FACT: The existing Gazebo was purchased & installed in 1999 using bonds (debt) that still has not been paid off. FACT: In March 2005, The Village received only the “rights” to fabricate the sculpture as a gift. FACT: The “gift” contains the following stipulations: • The sculpture must be installed by September 2007 • The sculpture must be installed at this specific location for a minimum of 25 years. After that time, it may only be moved within the Village or DONATED to a museum or public institution (it may not be sold). FACT: When initially questioned about the source of the funding for the project on February 27, 2006, the Board of Trustees publicly stated AT LEAST EIGHT TIMES that the money was coming from a Grant. FACT: Prior to a March 15, 2006 Star Ledger article, there were no mentions of taxpayer cost for this project in any newspaper articles. FACT: On April 10, 2006, it was publicly disclosed that the funding is actually hidden in a Bond (taxpayer debt) approved in 2004 for “Street, Sidewalk & Roadway improvements”. FACT: There have been NO public hearings about whether tax dollars should be spent on this project. | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 748 Registered: 4-2005 |
Agree Frederick - I actually made comments at the last BOT meeting with reference to the Governor's proposed cuts and how we need to set priorities and not to expect too much (if anything) in extraordinary aid from the State. Have fun in the politics section. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5577 Registered: 1-2004 |
Fred- Okay, so two out of three ain't bad. There is a thread about the shut down. I started it over the weekend in the Politics Soapbox Topic. | ||
| talk-it-up Citizen Username: Talkitup Post Number: 250 Registered: 3-2004 |
Can one of the Board of Trustees provide some answers: What are these Foundations and Organizations? Are they 501(c) 3 non profits? What is the structure and relationship to the Gallery? What is the Gallery? Who is it accountable? Why is it public in a public space and not private paying rent on South Orange Ave? Will the gallery move into SOPAC? Are their written agreements in place with these organizations or is this a handshake deal? Why are you spending local money (take down gazebo, site prep, consultants fees, etc) on a piece of artwork when the State is in such a situation at the next level - serious enough to shut down? Why are we not serious enough about our local funds? Why is the $250,000 not used to pay down debt on SOPAC? Why would we put something in place that will provide a giant black board for spray paint? How many of you are up for re-election???? | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Momof4peepers Post Number: 116 Registered: 12-2005 |
talk-it-up: very good questions. Can you ask them at the Board of Trustees meeting on Monday? |
