| Author | Message | ||
     peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2045 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ms. Harris -- why is redevelopment like "redlining" -- is that because the village could then "take" property in that area -- so its a risk for banks to grant mortgages? This weekend I noticed one business with a sign in the window, shaped like a "stop sign" that said "NO SID" -- it would be an excellent idea for the chamber to distribute signs like that (at least with that message) around town. To me, seeing stores that I (we as a community) shop at oppose the SID, would send a strong message. Pete | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 202 Registered: 12-2004 |
Pete: Redevelopment is like redlining because it defines an area that is "problematic" at best. Any landowner in the area MUST DISCLOSE ANY KNOWLEDGE of redevelopment to a prospective purchaser. The point being, no one will buy a parcel that might be taken away. Would you? The South Orange Chamber of Commerce did, in fact, distribute the red signs that you saw. For what it is worth, I sincerely hope that all of you will attend the BoT meetings on July 10 and 24 and express your opinion that a SID should not be passed. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5582 Registered: 1-2004  |
Noodle- From the post I read from Leslie and John's daughter his supposed comments did not embarass her. Plus she is an adult. Jennings kids I have no idea about. I do know other kids have said things to Bill's son because I heard them. I told the other kids o knock it off and leave him alone. He's a little kid. There is a difference. Oh, yeah I forgot, to some I'm just a busybody. Sorry, I don't think the actions of an adult should be taken out on a little kid. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1379 Registered: 7-2005  |
Sheena, everyone makes mistakes...true... but at some point apologies just don't cut-it. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 651 Registered: 1-2006 |
What is the point of picturing the weapon? I see nothing is chambered, but, again, what is the point? And, get some sleep. jd | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 454 Registered: 2-2006 |
Rastro, the presumptions evident on this board about what people know or don't know about others' lives seems silly, at best. However, they often strike me as great arrogance much of the time. Far more temperate would be to take seriously what they DON'T know and act accordingly. JTA, the remarks in question are inconsiderate anywhere but especially offensive in the public square, and whoever made them is wrong. The problems with asking Mr. Pogany face to face are several. Not everyone who posts on MOL would like to have people showing up on their doorstep and it could set a bad precedent for MOL. But let's say someone asked him face to face anyway. What if that presented Mr. Pogany with a moral dilemma, such as a perceived need to protect someone he cared about? Would a father take the blame for a child (remember Pretty Princess' recent ardent declarations on this thread of her love for her father?); would an adult child take the blame for an elderly parent or relative, etc.? They often do in real life and I see no reason why Mr. Pogany would be different. In these circumstances, you could not be assured that he would answer you truthfully. A very good friend of Mr. Pogany might raise some of these questions with him, and perhaps should, but not I and perhaps not you. Elaine's comment, "A good government would be on good terms with the landowners and would know how to deal with them" is an understatement. A good government would actually represent landowners and others in town. When will we have a good government that represents the citizens of SO? If people pay attention to what is happening in town and vote in the elections next spring, we might have a government that represents us after the elections. | ||
| growler Citizen Username: Growler Post Number: 977 Registered: 11-2001  |
I disagree. The government has others issues to attend to than represent local landowners. Another body, such as a SID, should handle the representation directly and would work with the current/future BOT to assure the landowners best interests are at hand along with following the Master Plan for the town. This is what they would be funded and paid to do. Property owners, in general, don't want another tax to fund such an organization as they do not or might not perceive the value of such an organization (as seen by some of the signs in town) however they will comment that nothing is getting done and it's the governments fault. I agree that blame can be laid upon the BOT but there are others at fault too. Our current government should be looking out for the town in total and looking out for the residents. Moving forward with development. Holding current developers accountable for their non-actions. Coming to a decision on what direction the town needs to go in. Stop miss-spending money. Blah, blah, blah. It does appear that there is no cohesive plan to bring the town together and everyone is going in all different direction to achieve something….anything. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro  Post Number: 3512 Registered: 5-2004  |
Could you say this using smaller words so I can understand what you are trying to say? | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 203 Registered: 12-2004 |
The problem with the suggestion made by Growler, that the SID should represent the property owners, is that....it can't. First, not all commercial property owners, or property owners whose land is in the area for redevelopment, are part of the SID. Secondly, the SID is comprised of persons with competing interests, hence can not be counted on to properly represent the commercial land owners. Thirdly, the BoT has made it emphatically clear that the commercial property owners will have no say in who is invited to be on the SID, at least not the "initial board" that makes all the rules. Do you expect that we should be represented by people who don't even want us on the board? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 455 Registered: 2-2006 |
Growler, you make me realize I did not really say what I meant. I meant that the town government should represent property owners who are also residents of the town. They should try to work with non-resident property owners for the betterment of the town, but resident owners should have higher priorty for the government. Other than that, G, I'm against the SID as presently envisioned and proposed. I think it a huge mistake, potentially dangerous and destructive, and grossly unfair to property owners who would be forced into it. It is a great example, potentially, of taxation without representation. I've made other comments about it previously and won't repeat them here. Rastro, I'll try. Several people have asserted and acted on this board as though they know whether or not Mr. Pogany has allowed anyone else, ever, to use his username and password on MOL and, further, that they are certain no one ever could have used it without his knowledge or permission. This is a presumption that, to my mind, displays an arrogant claim to knowledge it is highly improbable they possess. It is also invasive and offensive since it treats the privacy of Mr. Pogany's home as though it is common ground for public and uninformed speculation (such as, to the effect, of course he would never give his access to MOL to anyone and of course no one close to him could get it without his knowledge or consent). If it is conceivable that someone might have used Mr. Pogany's MOL account without his knowledge or consent, it is nearly inconceivable that someone little known to Mr. Pogany could be certain that this (a Mr. P imposter or stand in) is impossible. Yet that is clearly the tone and often the assertion of many posters on this thread commenting about the offensive remarks and Mr. Pogany's relation to them. I am hoping for and suggesting a fairer treatment of Mr. Pogany. Although he may have written the offensive remarks, they should not be attributed so cavalierly to him without proof that he made them, precisely because they are offensive. I have seen no proof on this thread that he did. Speculation, yes, but not proof. Neither am I requesting proof here. I am asking some people to act differently than they have when they really are unsure of their claims, or should be. As for my own public speculations about the privacy of Mr. Pogany's home, I apologize for them to him and his family. But without him wishing to probably, Mr. Pogany has come to represent any one of us who might be treated unfairly in a public forum. And I could not express why it was unfair without that speculation any more than I can refrain from saying we would be better off if the remarks had not been made and if someone apologized to Ms. Jennings for them. I know "Pizzaz" has apologized on MOL, but I mean a real person, to a real Stacey Jennings, in real time, at a real place, offer a real apology. | ||
| growler Citizen Username: Growler Post Number: 978 Registered: 11-2001 |
Elaine & SO - I've lived here 10 years and from what I see, not much has been done to further the betterment of the town. If properly organized, a SID can be a positive directing force in the developement of our town. What the BOT and other organizations have been doing have not worked. Why not try something new? Elaine - How is a SID comprised of persons with competing interests? | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 205 Registered: 12-2004 |
The answer is self-evident. "If properly organized...." Here it is not properly organized. Rather it is being proposed for the wrong reasons, by wrong people and at the wrong time. Any government that has such a bad track record should not be "experimenting" with other people's money just to "try something new." The competing interests are the "residents" who will not be paying any assessment into the SID versus the business owners who will be paying. Then there are the landlord versus tenant interests. Then there are the political interests. And so on and so forth. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1769 Registered: 9-2004  |
Several people have asserted and acted on this board as though they know whether or not Mr. Pogany has allowed anyone else, ever, to use his username and password on MOL and, further, that they are certain no one ever could have used it without his knowledge or permission. This is a presumption that, to my mind, displays an arrogant claim to knowledge it is highly improbable they possess. So we could say same for you SOrising? Perhaps someone other than YOU have access to this account. Maybe 2, 3, or 4 people are responding under the name of SOrisng, eh? Perhaps Rastro doesn't understand because MAYBE we are being answered by another entity? You seem to be the only one in denial of Pogany's statements, or perhaps again, the TRUTH is NOT sinking in with you. Pogany apologized for the statement he made towards Ms. Jennings, however, he did not apologize for accusing a business "with a drug deal gone bad." I'll say thats slander on another persons business. And this IS a PUBLIC forum for ALL to view. It was WRONG for Calebrese to slander Bunny's at a public meeting, and it is WRONG for another to slander any business in a PUBLIC forum. I wouldn't be surprised if more folks read MOL than go to the BOT meetings. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1384 Registered: 7-2005 |
JD why do you care? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1611 Registered: 10-2004  |
Me either - Who's online now: Who's here: » hoops » parkbench87 » soparents » kendalbill » mem » 3girls » dod » sullymw » bmalibashksa » algebra2 » lillb » papayagirl » marlit » newbiehomeowner » chris_prenovost » bmpsab » arnomation | & 172 guests Virtual Cafe 16% Blogs 2% Mostly Maplewood 5% S.Orange Specific 10% Millburn/SH 3% Arts 2% Dining 3% Home Fix-it 4% Please Help 21% Sports 10% Tech 1% Soapbox 18% Politics 7% 1 | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2058 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ms Harris, although I am opposed to the SID, your argument about competing interests isn't sufficient to kill the SID. Those same "competing interests" are in town right now -- and presumably would do an equally good/bad job as happens currently. To me the analogy is a mall -- where the landlord (mall owner) advertises, takes care of, improves common areas, parking, etc. In an ideal situation, what the mall does is best for the stores/businesses -- since it increases everyone's revenue. BUT I'd say we don't have the same opportunity here in SO -- with probably dozens (if not 100's) business property owners (some local, some probably by larger developers), small and large shops, businesses, offices. And intermingled are homes and apartments. I can't see it working well at all. --Pete | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 206 Registered: 12-2004 |
Pete, I do not agree that a mall is analagous because it is strictly private interests at work. At least with a mall situation, a retailer can negotiate his terms, accept or reject the landlord's terms, and continue in business with the confidence that he can budget according to his lease. Here, it is the government working its way into the private interests and it intends to use the money collected FOR ITS OWN PURPOSES, i.e. to pay for services that are already provided for, such as street cleaning and flower watering, not to mention to cover expenses on the general budget sort of like a bridge loan. Please take a close look at Main Street South Orange, which is also an agency of the government. Virtually all of the things that you want to have happen in our village are under the jurisdiction of Main Street. So, I ask, why create yet another agency (which I would then add to my list of competing interests)? Why not just give more money to Main Street and let them do their job? In the long run, that will be a lot cheaper. All the proposed SID can do with the money collected is to create more jobs. Pete, I swear, that is all it will do and every group that studied it came to the same conclusion. Trustee Moore-Abrams gets it!!! She specifically stated, not here, not now. She said we should finish our other projects first, then have a foundation for future planning. I totally agree. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2061 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ms Harris -- we actually agree -- in theory a SID could work in a homogeneous situation, like a mall -- and SO is clearly not like that at all. my 2 cents -- try and recruit a few more chamber members to speak out at the next BOT meeting -- even if the BOT is not swayed, it will make a statement to those present and/or viewing. Pete | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4380 Registered: 5-2001  |
Elaine, Here is the clip of Trustee Moore-Abrams position on the SID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7diIdfd9s90 I agree...what is the rush? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 664 Registered: 1-2006 |
It takes away from your input. jd | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4384 Registered: 5-2001 |
Back to the original thread.... The agenda for Monday's BOT Meeting has been posted and Howard's request for censure is not on the agenda. Why not? | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 749 Registered: 4-2005  |
Because the public cannot put items on the agenda. Only trustees and the VP can. Isn't it obvious why Howard's request for a censure is not on the agenda? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4390 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, Stacey Jennings finally ADMITTED last night that her spite vote 2 weeks ago was because of a MOL post. How mature! | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5596 Registered: 10-1999  |
MHD: Really? I thought that nobody reads this message board.  | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5614 Registered: 1-2004 |
Didn't she also pretty much call Blaze a 'racist?' | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2005  |
And telling an African-American woman to "kiss his WHITE •••" isn't racist???? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4391 Registered: 5-2001 |
I do not defend John's initial comment, but he DID apologize afterwards: http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=600610#POST6006 10
When will Jennings apologize for her juvenille behavior and spiteful vote two weeks ago? | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3659 Registered: 5-2001  |
Abstaining is not juvenile or spiteful. Voting no for inappropriate reasons would be ,but abstaining is the proper course to take when a personal matter would interfere with decision making. No harm-no foul. | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 670 Registered: 5-2001 |
I agree LL. She did the appropriate thing. Calabrese is a different matter altogether. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1776 Registered: 9-2004 |
Ditto to what Nancy-LL said. | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2006 |
Anti - Ditto. Abstaining is the coward's way out. If you are one of the people in charge of the town, and you believe a business owner is a racist, prejudicial, or otherwise detrimental to the overall town makeup. You should stand up and say something. And vote. And get it on the record. It's a coward's (and political) move. My 2 centavos | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3660 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cali, I agree it was a political move. After all they are POLITICANS and we can't divorce that from whoever else they may be. But it is proper to abstain (not vote) when you as a individual have a personal (hostile) relationship, so you can't be accused of using a vote to execute a vendetta. | ||
| Erin Cartman Citizen Username: Carnac Post Number: 76 Registered: 5-2005  |
LL - Exactly. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4394 Registered: 5-2001 |
The clip of Calabrese's original slanderous remarks & then his total NON-apology from last night has now been posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fv8pYmns50 Listen carefully to how he completely evades apologizing. | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2006 |
I can agree with that. But I don't think this qualifies. Prejudice is not personal. If said person's dog kept digging up her lawn, and she voted "NO" to exact revenge, you have a point. But this is bigger than that. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 284 Registered: 2-2003 |
You can dislike someone, you can disagree with their words and beliefs, but still feel that there is no grounds for using your public office to hurt that person. (A person who, in this case, does not even own the establishment in question!) | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1401 Registered: 7-2005 |
"kiss my white ***" is a comment that you really can't apologize for. It's out there...and now we are stuck living with it. EDIT:  After watching the video) If Bunny's wants an apology they should go get it themselves. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 677 Registered: 1-2006 |
Publicly, to Ms. J, at a regular meeting. It would calm the waters, and return the spotlight to where it should be. jd | ||
| marion cobretti Citizen Username: Marion_cobretti Post Number: 157 Registered: 1-2005 |
i just plain don't like stacey "racist" jennings | ||
| PRETTYPRINCESS Citizen Username: Prettyprincess Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2006  |
Disgusting coward |
