| Author | Message | ||
     Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1839 Registered: 3-2003 |
I think it's time for SOPAC to make a presentation before before the BOT showing a financial projection. SOPAC had promised the BOT last year that it would be appearing before the BOT, but never honored that promise. The last time SOPAC appeared, more questions were raised than answered. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 648 Registered: 1-2004  |
We (taxpayers) are covering current expenses with the exception of $230-250k/year CDGB. These expenses include both Capital (Construction Bonds/Notes) and Operating ($350,000 from recreation budget). We have never seen a business plan nor IRS reporting by SOPAC. It has been over a year since the Village Administrator updated SOPAC reconciliation for the CBAC. As the Village Administrator stated: "SOPAC is a Village Project ... part of the downtown vision.. and the Village is connected at the hip with SOPAC..." we should then be able to obtain a greater understanding on the impact to Village finances. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 486 Registered: 2-2006 |
Exactly, Howard. Because Targeted SOlutions did not raise any money and if the current SOPAC board raised money for it they have not announced the total, it appears no significant fundraising has been accomplished. Taxes are in place precisely because the BOT and SOPAC either don't want to raise money privately, don't know how to, are inept at it, or perhaps all three. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 994 Registered: 5-2004  |
I don't remember perfectly, but I recently saw a BOT meeting video clip in which a woman who seemed to know the business, questioned the $3 million additional bonding and requesting details. (She was the woman who said she'd be fired for this huge of a cost overrun!) In order to consider the $3M in terms of percentage of the total original budget, she asked for confirmation from the BOT that it was originally a $10 million project. She was corrected by, I recall, Allen Rosen, who stated it was originally $14 million. Obviously that would make the $3M a smaller percentage cost overrun only 21.4% instead of a flat 30%, but it makes SOPAC a total projected cost to date of $17 million!!!! So, was Rosen "misinformed" like many on the BOT seem to be when it comes to taxpayer money? Is it really $10 million with a 30% cost overrun? Anyone really know? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4417 Registered: 5-2001  |
This is the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5nM-ImculE | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 688 Registered: 1-2006 |
originally 11.4 million. specially reduced from 14 million, per rosen. so, over thirty percent increase from contract price. nice work, if you can get it. jd | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 87 Registered: 3-2006 |
The average Defense Department overrun is between 156% and 225%. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1840 Registered: 3-2003 |
the Village is "joined at the hip" to SOPAC. The Village approves a $3 million bond to cover cost-overruns, and the taxpayers are the ultimate guarantors. But Janet, we (the BOT) can't tell you what your $3 miilion that we're obligating you for represents. Ask SOPAC. Jerks. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 290 Registered: 2-2003 |
Frederick, I'd hope we don't have to set the bar that low! | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 88 Registered: 3-2006 |
The reality is that most construction -- public or private has change orders and cost overruns. While it is a nice thought that a building might not; the truth is the do. A change order doesn't necessarily means that a mistake was made. New materials become available; new techniques become available. You seek to encourage responsive management who shows flexibility in dealing with questions that do come up. The Performing Arts Center should have a profound positive effect on South Orange and the surrounding communities. It won't happen overnight. Just consider what the Paper Mill House has meant to Milburn and the area. It hasn't always been a bed of rose for the theatre. And, finally, it was embraced by the State because it was good for the entire state and the region. Does everyone go to the Paper Mill, no. But it is there. I write in favor of the Performing Arts Center to give another point of view. It can't be all complaints. Did you know that many in Congress over two hundred years ago opposed the creation of the Smithsonian Institution and from time to time my colleagues at the Smithsonian mention that some congress members still do. As a former Assistant Director, the Smithsonian is worth every cent the government spends. You want a better town. Make it happen. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1841 Registered: 3-2003 |
When the contract was signed with Arnell, the VP basically said that the price was fixed and there was nothing that could change it. He didn't qualify it in any way. This was the way he was able to get the project going. The bids had previously come in at $14 million and it was a no-go. Now it's back up to $14 million. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 996 Registered: 5-2004 |
Does anyone know who is on the BOD of SOPAC? Who do we "ask" and how are they contacted? And Frederick, don't you have anything better to do in California than meddle in current S.Orange, New Jersey matters? After all, you are moving to MAPLEWOOD at some point, right? So, these are not YOUR TAXES that are being frittered away! The woman in the clip, Janet, seemed to be quite knowledgeable in the construction business, and she was clearly outraged at a 30% overrun! You state the obvious, that most construction projects go over budget - are you stating a colloquial opinion or do you have facts? And if you do have facts, please share with us what is the normal construction budget overrun in terms of percentage for a village of less than 20,000 residents? | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1680 Registered: 3-2002 |
Frederick, I am a supporter of SOPAC, albeit a concerned one. Since you are just moving back to the area, you may not realize that Paper Mill has some significant financial problems. Also, I've given her the benefit of the doubt in the past, but please note that the execcutive director of SOPAC, whose fundraising and public reporting abilities are currently in question, is one of the people who essentially ran the John Harms Center in Bergen into major financial problems, with the help of an economic downturn and expensive capital improvements (after she departed it was reorganized and reopened as Bergen PAC). I'm in favor of SOPAC, but I'm appalled by the lack of public disclosure, by the magnitude of the overruns, and by the seemingly glacial pace of the fund-raising. The situation isn't all black and white, as much as it may seem so to arts lovers who do not pay taxes in our town. Even a very good idea can be mismanaged. Hoping you will become a major contributor once you finish your move into the area -- I think that the S.O. arts projects that you speak for will need your support, as well as mine. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4419 Registered: 5-2001 |
http://www.sopacnow.org/p-about.php | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 293 Registered: 2-2003 |
"When the contract was signed with Arnell, the VP basically said that the price was fixed and there was nothing that could change it. He didn't qualify it in any way. This was the way he was able to get the project going. The bids had previously come in at $14 million and it was a no-go. Now it's back up to $14 million. How can the VP make a statement like that unless the Village has negotiated a hard fee cap? Did the Village's representatives here try to secure such a hard cap? If not, why were we not told at the time that this was the case? | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 997 Registered: 5-2004 |
Frederick - what is your source for your average DOD overrun percentages? Everything I have found quickly on the internet states between 40% and 50% for DOD cost overruns. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 998 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thanks MHD - when I did a google search on "SOPAC Board of Directors" that site didn't come up. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1842 Registered: 3-2003 |
Stuart - I can't answer your question. If you scroll up to Two Senses' post of July 11, 10:16 pm, he summarizes the history. His recall is the same as mine. Also, if you look on the Village Website, the fixed price is mentioned quite prominently. p.s. - I'm sure Bill Calabrese would say he never said such a thing. "I would be foolish if I said somthing like that. Of course there are always additional costs in a construction contract." | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 999 Registered: 5-2004 |
OK, I just sent Jessica Finkelberg an email requesting any details she is able to provide on the specifics of the cost overruns that require an additional $3 million bonding. I'll share what the reply is in this thread. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 489 Registered: 2-2006 |
Pdg, let me guess that she will tell you that SOPAC is a private non-profit and that that information is only available to the board. If SOPAC has to file an annual report with the state, you might be able to get it there. But, the main point for SO residents is that the slippery BOT should demand an accounting and they do not. Remember this in the elections next spring, South Orange. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1000 Registered: 5-2004 |
Your prediction may be right SOrising, but I'll be sure to let her know that the SO BOT told everyone that they should question the SOPAC BOD. (It was Rosen that said that, right?) You're also right that the specifics really aren't the point (I'm sure they are probably required or else the gosh darn project will never be finished.) I'm just following through with Rosen's recommendation since he was either ignorant of the facts (and voted regardless) or was trying to prevent an official and public recording of the facts behind the cost overrun. | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 741 Registered: 10-2005  |
Though I'm sure it doesn't amount to 3 mil, it'd be nice if people woud STOP BREAKING THE FRIGGING WINDOWS AT SOPAC. I can't imagine why teens (?) would do this over and over again, (apart from hearing their parents constantly rant against SOPAC at the dinner table. Hmm...) | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 742 Registered: 10-2005 |
Just joking. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23548 Registered: 6-2001  |
Pdg - please let us know if you got a response. I've sent Finkelberg at least one (and I believe two) emails with questions and never got a response. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1843 Registered: 3-2003 |
Pdg - Maybe you should start a new thread titled something like "Response from Jessica Finkelberg re cost overruns" and each day there is not a response, post "day 1 - no responses," and so on. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10100 Registered: 4-1997  |
I think you need to separate out the people doing the day to day work from the policy making organ of SOPAC. From what I can see, they're doing a great job reaching out to local theatre groups and getting programs lined up. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1844 Registered: 3-2003 |
Dave - I agree. I mentioned Jessica because that's who Pdg sent the email to. Maybe the thread should be "Response from SOPAC." I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the change orders basically added back the things that were eliminated to arrive at the "value engineered" contract of $11.5 million. We definitely plan to patronize SOPAC and hope it's successful. But the way it's been handled from a financial standpoint and disclosure to the public has left a lot to be desired. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 496 Registered: 2-2006 |
Isn't it great the BOT has plunged SO over 14 million into debt for SOPAC and more for other arrested development schemes, just as New Jersey's economy "has entered an alarming economic decline" with the "most uncertain...future since the Great Depression", according to two Rutgers economists? The following excerpt is from today's Star Ledger N.J. economy is choking, say two experts Report cites loss of top jobs Friday, July 14, 2006 BY BETH FITZGERALD Star-Ledger Staff Two Rutgers University economists plan to issue a report today stating New Jersey has entered an alarming economic decline whose severity is masked by the very affluence that is slowly slipping away. "New Jersey now faces its most uncertain economic future since the Great Depression," James Hughes and Joseph Seneca write in their 20-page report. Hughes said he loaded the rhetorical dice in hopes of shaking up his audience. With New Jersey's work force 4million strong and growing, and with unemployment relatively low, Hughes said he isn't predicting a recurrence of the Depression's bread-line nightmare. The threat, he said, lurks in the quality of the jobs that are keeping New Jerseyans busy, and the impact of those jobs on long-term prosperity for the state. Between 2000 and 2005, New Jersey's economy created thousands of relatively low-paying service jobs and government jobs, while private-sector jobs declined. New Jersey also lost many high-paid technology, knowledge and manufacturing jobs during that period, while such jobs were growing in North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland and Florida. This is disturbing, Hughes said, because New Jersey is an expensive place to live and work and needs high-paid workers to buy its expensive homes and pay the taxes that finance its rich diet of government services. "It's not that we are entering another Depression -- the problem is that the future is just as uncertain as it was in the 1930s," Hughes said. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 89 Registered: 3-2006 |
SOrising -- you need to change your handle to SOfalling. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 497 Registered: 2-2006 |
Frederick Schmid, officious, non-resident meddler suits you nicely also. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 90 Registered: 3-2006 |
Can you just hurl insults -- suits you nicely. SO needs a positive plan to work out its problems. BTW, I am writing this email right in the middle of SO. Maintaining and expressing a positive attitude about South Orange is not meddling. MOL is about open discussions and people can have different points of view. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2088 Registered: 5-2005  |
I think SOrising is a nice positive name... A very hopefully and forward looking one. SOP | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23574 Registered: 6-2001 |
Frederick Schmid is a troll. Ignore the troll!!! | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10107 Registered: 4-1997 |
"BTW, I am writing this email right in the middle of SO. " Reverse DNS: ppp-71-1*4-7-2**.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net United States - California - Los Angeles - Pppox Pool - Rback17.irvnca.062105-2044 | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 91 Registered: 3-2006 |
bets, more insults -- Do people ignore you? | ||
| shestheone Citizen Username: Shestheone Post Number: 297 Registered: 5-2003 |
Dave, sometimes you scare me. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1846 Registered: 3-2003 |
Frederick - In another thread "Introduce Yourself" you said that South Orange and Maplewood were "two entirely different communities." I asked how they are different, but never got a response. Perhaps you didn't see my question. I'll ask again- how are they dfferent? Just curious. | ||
| Dan Shelffo Citizen Username: Openspacer Post Number: 190 Registered: 6-2001  |
One is two miles further from LA than the other. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1685 Registered: 3-2002 |
Dave, Jessica Finkelberg is the Executive Director. Her job should include both dealing with the day to day job of scheduling and with the executive level job of working with her Board and others to deal with the public. It may be that someone from the Board should answer, but her job includes making sure that that Boardmember has what he/she needs to answer. Given her salary is currently being paid by tax dollars and/or grants to the village, it is part of her job to make sure that there is a communication plan to the tax-paying public (who also constitute a good portion of her eventual donor and subscriber base) | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 855 Registered: 5-2001 |
Spitz you mean Maplewood and SO are really the same town kind of like Clark Kent and Superman are really the same person? I guess that makes Millburn Lois Lane! |
