| Author | Message | ||
     Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2006 |
Spitz, Thank you. I am sorry, I did miss your question. I do remember my statement. I have found over the last month or so as I have a chance to work in town, the towns to be not as different as I had originally thought and remembered. The similarities between South Orange, Maplewood, Millburn, Summit, Chatham, etc are strong -- the similarities are greater than the differences. The towns are facing financial issues, but Maplewood appears to have several more options than South Orange. I think it would be fair to say that the leadership of South Orange has its back more to the wall then Maplewood. One big difference between the towns is having South Orange Avenue versus Maplewood Avenue run through the towns. Trying to keep Maplewood village alive is much simpler than keeping SO village going. What concerns me is putting these towns together, we then get a town of 40,000 which actually increases the problems geometrically. If you get the wrong leadership you have 40,000 people in trouble rather than 26,000 or 14,000. These are just thoughts and observations. I will say -- and this gets me in trouble, the founding of the Performing Arts Center can be a facility that energizes the village area and helps to get people focused on the community. It is a positive step. It is a high profile step and subsequently it has its risks. South Orange needs to do something to jump start. Even if every store in town were rented, it might not be enough. I know that people have said -- get people to lease the vacant spaces. When I talked to one of those prospective tenants, they clearly questioned if the customers were there in the communities, to support the presence of their store. That is the first question, a prospective tenant has to ask. And, the citizens of SO and the bosters of SO have to stimulate the people traffic. A performing arts center may contribute to that development. Notice I say may contribute, nothing is for sure. Cultural programs have been widely used to draw people back to an area -- there are many examples of that. Some have worked, and some have not. The new Symphony Center in Newark is the largest example of this attempt in NJ. Talk about a tough job -- reviving Newark. But it has to be done. When I was a young kid, Newark had some of the most beautiful sections -- anywhere. Actually a very livable city, then. I did notice that Newark had the most significant increases in population over the past five years. That is a good sign. So Spitz, thanks for the heads up. Hope I gave more details to explain myself. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23576 Registered: 6-2001  |
Did The Troll miss Dave's post completely or is he hoping we did? | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1847 Registered: 3-2003 |
Frederick - Thank you for your very detailed answer. Quite honestly, I wasn't sure what you meant, and I agree with what you are saying. I think that you can appreciate that the posters on MOL represent a pretty broad spectrum of residents - long-time residents, newcomers, young and old, and so on, and we all love South Orange.I happen to think it's one of the most beautiful towns I've seen. It has so much potential. Most of the "complaints" that people might post are their concerns that the Village has so much going for it, but local govt. doesn't seem to know how to capitalize on it. Perhaps the performing arts center will indeed be the catalyst that is needed. But the questions raised are "at what cost." Good luck on your move back to Maplewood. I'm guessing that my wife was a couple years behind you at Columbia. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 498 Registered: 2-2006 |
Dave, thank you for revealing a truth none of the rest of us had access to. Bets, thank you for naming evasion, obsfucation and falsehood for what they are. SOParents, thank you for confronting deception and affirming hope. Others, thank you for recognizing that no amount of diversion, obsfucation, evasion or falsehood will make it possible to remedy problems that are not first identified, any more than they will make it possible to replace those responsible for them without them, the perpetrators, first being known. | ||
| talk-it-up Citizen Username: Talkitup Post Number: 256 Registered: 3-2004 |
This is not about SOPAC's impact on the village. This is about the lack of disclosure and accountability on the part of the government. That great - cost too high, lower it, recover it in change orders. By the way since when does a contractor leave broken glass hanging in it's frame. What happened to job safety procedures? This is a law suit waiting to happen. Very poor practice. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1007 Registered: 5-2004  |
For those interested, still no reply from Jessica Finkelberg. I sent my email with questions to her using the "Contact Us" link on SOPAC's website www.sopacnow.org Maybe if several more interested residents sent inquiries they'd be moved to make a press release? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 703 Registered: 1-2006 |
So Schmid, there is room for improvement? jd | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider  Post Number: 15046 Registered: 1-2003  |
Dave, Frederick could be using a VPN or ssh or pc-anywhere type software to get back to his home or business computer. His post comes from Irvine, but we don't know where his body was when he posted. | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2006 |
Tom, you got it right. And when you work with satellite, it even gets to be more fun. I do a lot of international travel to Asia which makes satellite necessary. Left Maplewood this morning and now home with the kids. BTW, Tom I appreciated your post on Mrs. Heller. I felt the same way. | ||
| Stevie Citizen Username: Rodman Post Number: 39 Registered: 5-2005  |
When walking by SOPAC tihs morning I noticed that not only was one of the windows broken but one of the brand new silver panels on the front had a big chunk broken off. Maybe Legos would have been a better idea. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Momof4peepers Post Number: 132 Registered: 12-2005 |
Frederick, I appreciate your dedication to the arts. However, when push came to shove, and it came time to put your money where your mouth (or keyboard) is, you chose NOT to indirectly support South Orange through your property taxes, and business taxes (forgive me if you've said you would be locating your business here in South Orange) but instead are heading to Maplewood. So it's hard for me to believe that SOPAC and Tau are the draws that you claim they could be. If it didn't draw YOU - an acknowledged supporter of both - then why would it draw the average joe? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15084 Registered: 1-2003 |
Elizabeth, Lots of PAC's are going up all over. Surely some are excessive. But some of them do a lot of good. They attract artists, who come to the area, settle, and do things like, for example, teach music lessons to kids (and adults) who might not otherwise take music lessons. This is a secondary ripple effect. Music isn't just entertainment. It's a discipline. Kids who spend several years in music lessons generally fare better academically. This is tertiary ripple effect. Being that South Orange already has lots of people involved in the arts, SOPAC could cause a (positive) snowballing effect and make South Orange an even greater Mecca for artists and the arts. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 741 Registered: 1-2006 |
I am going to hug a tree; I feel so artsy. jd | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2188 Registered: 5-2005  |
I don't doubt that SOPAC will be a draw for South Orange, and hopefully a massive success, but this thread it about the cost overruns and change orders for SOPAC.. How can we find out what the change orders are? If indeed these are changes, then it should be shown why the amount is so high percentage-wise against the initial agreed upon cost. If it is because the town (I am not sure who was in charge of this) "engineered" the plans to "fit" the budget they wanted and therefore stripped out a lot of items, this also has to be addressed. Were they unnecessary items/suplus to requirements? I know down the line, they hope that SOPAC will be self supporting, but at the moment it isn't, it is reliant on money coming from the town ie. taxpayers money, and therefore it should be shown what these "change orders" are (if indeed that is what they are) Again, this all comes down to accountability, fiscal responsibility and I think in this instance, credibility too... | ||
| phd6786 Citizen Username: Phd6786 Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2006  |
Sarcasm gets you nowhere Joel Dranove, and shows a very weak part of you, a part that doesn't let you open your mind to things you don't understand, a part that is not open to diversity. You have already demonstrated bigotism elsewhere, don't reinforce it. If you plan to run for trustee, as some have indicated here, you must become a little more serious than you are. Less sarcasm, less "jokes", less "poetry", less literary essays, less negativity, less words. More action, more substance, more concrete ideas, more dignity, more positive thinking, more South Orange spirit. Give me these mores and I'll vote for you. Stay the way you are and you'll lose. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 515 Registered: 2-2006 |
Tom, with so many PACs going up, how do you think they will all be able to stay afloat as the NJ economy heads into a downturn? If SOPAC can't cover its own operating costs, let alone the 14 million plus loan it should pay off from its opening night forward, who, given that there is so little commercial property in town, will have to subsidize operating expenses in addition to the 14 million debt? Residents also have to pay for many, many other similarly ill-conceived projects for the town, county and state. The idea might be interesting, but its execution, as is the pattern of SO development, is inept and without cost limits. You can't guarantee numerous projects with no spending limits and expect to survive. Would you do this with your personal finances? Why the town's? I and many others would love to see a serious music conservatory or arts school in town. But SOPAC isn't it and may be far, far from this kind of standard. While Joel is out hugging trees, he might also plant some plastic flowers in South Orange parks, as the director of the town supported gallery and head of the Pierro Foundation recently had accomplished while being a town employee. I for one do not want to subsidize any more embarassments in town. We have far more than are prudent or than we can bear already. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 516 Registered: 2-2006 |
Less vacuity, actual on-point focus, and you won't be a distraction to this thread, 6786. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2078 Registered: 8-2002 |
SOPAC will be a draw not just for "art" but for movies. There are a number of movies that Clearview shows in Montclair, if they were right downtown, I'd go! That said, I wonder whether this will draw the teeny bopper crowd that hangs out across the streets & parks near Maplewood village... (and speaking of which, I've stopped going to the Maplewood moviie theater, its really getting more dumpy) I understand Seton Hall will also use the facilities -- to the extent that adds some venues, great. Have not heard about opening this to say, local private or public schools, and while it wouldn't be a money maker -- again it could be good for the community. All said, I can't fathom $3M in change orders -- either project specs were lousy to begin with, or project management was even worse. Pete | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 300 Registered: 2-2003 |
Less vs. Fewer | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1849 Registered: 3-2003 |
A resident asked the BOT what the $3 million was for. The resident was told to ask SOPAC. Another resident sends a email to the Executive Director of SOPAC asking what the $3 million was for. So far, no answer. Looking on the Village website, there are no SOPAC meetings scheduled for July. (As a matter of fact, I've periodically checked the meeting schedule over the past year and don't recall any SOPAC meetings being shown in the schedule.) How are residents expected to get the information from SOPAC? Howard? | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1026 Registered: 5-2004 |
FYI, no response from Ms. Finkelberg yet, but after reading the recent posts I decided to just call. Ms. Finkelberg was in a meeting, but I did learn that SOPAC is currently preparing to disseminate information regarding construction, the budget and cost overruns to the public. I for one am very pleased with this pro-active response and look forward to seeing the info. published! The very nice gentleman I spoke with on the phone wasn't completely sure where/how it would be presented, but when I suggested the newspaper and SOPAC's website he agreed that was likely. I asked when we could expect to see this information, he said "imminently" and when I pressed further by asking, "by the end of July?" he said yes! | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2192 Registered: 5-2005 |
Thanks Pdg, glad to hear that they will be forthcoming with info. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1850 Registered: 3-2003 |
Thanks Pdg. Ditto what SOP said. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3603 Registered: 5-2001  |
Pdg, good move on making that call. Both the town and the SOPAC folks need to see on a regular basis that the public is both concerned and interested. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15088 Registered: 1-2003 |
SOrising, you raise good questions. I can't say for sure this PAC will take hold and produce the expected return on investment. (And remember, public works are not there to make money directly. The return I'm talking about is societal, not profit. But still, it's fair to ask.) I was talking about why a PAC can be good, not why this particular PAC will be good for sure. I don't know, but we can hope. There are lots going up all over, too many, I'm sure. Some turn out to be boondoggles. I feel even worse about all the stadia going up around the country, and for what? But that shows my orientation: I'm more interested in arts than in sports, and I'm just one person. Joel, are you that dismissive to those you agree with, too? | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 653 Registered: 1-2004  |
Spitz, I hope pdg gets the information promised. I have made repeated requests of both SOPAC and the Village Administrator without results. I have an open request for discussion at our next CBAC meeting the details associated to the recent Bond request. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 745 Registered: 1-2006 |
No. But, I don't believe the vast majority of arrivees purchased here to be near a small town's experiment in bringing modern art to the public. Do you? The gun on the hill was offensive, and Tau is a copy of a large sculpture available for viewing at Hunter College. The BOT says people will travel here to see Tau; why travel here when you can see it in Manhattan? That is all. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 746 Registered: 1-2006 |
Tau is free for the viewing, on a sidewalk, at Hunter. jd | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 518 Registered: 2-2006 |
(NB, Stuart0628, on the laconic limits of minimalism, such as its wanting clarity, vacuity is unenumerable, while, “Fewer vacuous comments” is. Is what, you might ask? Get my drift?) Enumerable vs. denumberable vs. enumerative | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4444 Registered: 5-2001  |
From today's News Record: South Orange to give additional $ 3.6 million to SOPAC By Philip Sean Curran Staff Writer Village trustees have agreed to provide an additional $ 3.6 million to build the South Orange Performing Arts Center, which is slated for a November debut on Trenchard Place, near the South Orange Train Station. Currently, the budget for the South Orange Performing Arts Center, which will house a performance theater and a movie theater, is set at $ 12.3 million. The additional money will cover some added expenses, such as an handicapped bathroom, upgraded kitchen and state- of- the- art wiring and electric, which are going into the 39,000 square- foot building. “ We want this building to be the best building it can be,” said Jessica Finkelberg, executive director of the South Orange Performing Arts Center, on Tuesday. South Orange Performing Arts Center officials approached the village within the past two months to request the additional money. But South Orange officials said they have known for a half a year that the South Orange Performing Arts Center would need more money to be built. They said it was incorrect to label these as cost- overruns or suggest this was a last- minute surprise. “ This is something we were aware of and they were aware of,” said village Trustee Allan Rosen, also chairman of the trustees’ finance committee. “ They need these monies to finish off the building.” This new money is in addition to the $ 10.6 million the village has committed to the South Orange Performing Arts Center, said village administrator John O. Gross. Overall, the village share will be $ 14.2 million. But officials said the South Orange Performing Arts Center will repay the village over time, with South Orange getting some of it back through federal grants. Should the South Orange Performing Arts Center ever default on its payments, the village would be able to take the building, Rosen said. At their meeting on Monday, trustees are scheduled to vote on a $ 4.3 million bond ordinance containing the money for the South Orange Performing Arts Center. In addition, money will be set aside for municipal projects. Rosen said he was confident trustees would adopt the ordinance. SOPAC, as it is known locally, is seen as part of the revival of downtown South Orange. Conceived in the 1990s, the South Orange Performing Arts Center is being hailed as an entertainment hub for the entire community. A gala opening is scheduled for Nov. 16. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2243 Registered: 5-2005 |
3.6M? I thought I heard 3 million mentioned at the last BOT meeting? THAT was a surprise... did I miss it? Did they say 3.6M? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10185 Registered: 4-1997  |
“ This is something we were aware of and they were aware of,” said village Trustee Allan Rosen, also chairman of the trustees’ finance committee. “ They need these monies to finish off the building.” -- I'm absolutely convinced Rosen is, clinically, a pathological liar. And I mean that in the best sense of the term. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 302 Registered: 2-2003 |
SORising, my link wasn't directed at you. Sorry that was not clear to all. "(L)ess literary essays" would seem to imply that a certain poster wishes to see essays with minimal literary value, rather than fewer (in number) literary essays. I was not aiming for thread drift. Back to our regularly scheduled exposure of flaws in how the Village is run... | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 654 Registered: 1-2004 |
Why doesn't the SOPAC Parking Map (http://www.sopacnow.org/documents/SOPACParkingMap.pdf) reflect the reality of the Parking Authority's (http://www.southorange.org/parking.asp) official site. The impression that SOPAC gives is that there are 800 spaces available for their patrons but as described by the Parking Authority most of these spaces are restricted or not available (Middle School). | ||
| Josh Holtz Citizen Username: Jholtz Post Number: 541 Registered: 4-2004 |
Who is this "they" that Allan Rosen is referring to? I sure hope he is not speaking of the residents of South Orange. Until last week I was certainly under the impression that the construction cost was what was previously stated. Heck, even in last week's News-Record a SOPAC article still had the $10.6 million in it. And you would think that a handicapped bathroom facility should have been in the original plans? Must be made of gold. | ||
| buddybak Citizen Username: Buddybak Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2006 |
that's because David Bressen is incharge of the project(Bill Calabrees) flunky | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 748 Registered: 1-2006 |
Was there not an architect responsible for signing off on the plans in the first place? jd | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 722 Registered: 6-2005 |
"We want this building to be the best building it can be" ........quote Jessica Finkelberg Ok, Ms. Finkelberg, who is this "we?" Who is speaking for us taxpayers, anyway? "This is something we were aware of and they were aware of".....quote Allen Rosen OK, Mr. Rosen, who are the "we" and the "they?" Nobody I know were aware of the overruns? And as for a handicap bathroom being new to the plans, i personally find that hard to believe. Any building today would have that built in. And certainly if it wasn't, then the architects and the SOPAC committee were negligent. And what else went into this additional $3+ million anyhow? This warrants a full investigation. And the BOT should not pass this bond until a full and thorough accounting and explanation are forthcoming. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2250 Registered: 5-2005 |
Was any study performed (independant study) as to the cost cutting effectiveness when the BOT or whoever "engineered" the cost of SOPAC down from 13- to about 10 mill? For them to have got the figure down some 3mill, and now we are looking at that same kind of figure for "changes" or whatever else they want to call them, just doesn't seem right. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1036 Registered: 5-2004 |
I received the following voice-mail message from Jessica Finkelberg this afternoon.
She was very pleasant and friendly on the message and seems like a nice person. However, I don't really see how the News-Record article addresses the specifics of the now $3.6 million (!) additional bonding! I agree, a (as in one?) handicapped bathroom, "upgraded kitchen" and state of the art wiring can't really cost almost $4 million can it? (why do they need a kitchen anyway? And why is it being "upgraded"? Will there be a restaurant included in the facility like at NJPAC?) I look forward to an answer to SOParents question as well! It sure does seem like everything our BOT "approves" initially costs a LOT less than it ultimately costs at the end of the project! Didn't Trustee Rosner once post that the Tony Smith Foundation's original proposed cost of Tau was about $85K total? What percentage increase has that little budget had even before construction has begun? What's the latest total, is it still a $410,000 budget? That'd be a 382% increase, right? |
