| Author | Message | ||
     Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 659 Registered: 1-2004  |
There is a collateral outcome to the de-locating of the sculpture from Sloan Street. Justification by the Tony Smith supporters stated that portions of Gazebo site were not functional – specifically the seating/bench installation and the fountain. We now have an opportunity to correct what has been previously overlooked/tolerated. Here is a potential use of Open Space Trust funds for needed repair/redesign. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1063 Registered: 5-2004  |
Good point, Howard. Let's fill-in the fountain! They could also put a sort of ceiling in the gazebo, effectively removing anyplace for pigeons to roost and thereby eliminating their expensive to clean elimination messes. I've always thought it would be nice to have a town bulletin board for posting various items by the public, like they have in Maplewood next to the PO and across from Kings. Maybe one could be installed under the gazebo? It could even have a current train schedule and train station hours on one side for commuter convenience. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5737 Registered: 1-2004  |
MHD Why weren't they cut off after THREE MINUTES? | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1064 Registered: 5-2004 |
Regarding Tau, it should be noted that the BOT only agreed to consider the new location in Meadowlands and also that during remonstrances someone (Janet Skrobe?) did object to current "Open Space" in the Meadowlands being assumed to be available for use without anyone having checked the current deed restrictions of the property. She wisely suggested that the BOT take care to check with our local Open Spaces committees regarding whether it is permitted. It seems that Sloan is no longer going to be the installation location. For that I personally am very pleased. The location and cavalier disregard for something that was already improved with tax dollars was my major objection to this project. Regarding the funding of Tau, I do not see why S. Orange is the only party out of pocket to date regarding the current status of the project when the TS Foundation has been publishing for years how well their fund-raising for this project has been going! Why aren't THEY out half the $170,000 that supposedly has already been spent on the Tau - a sculpture they are forcing on S.Orange residents to realize the Foundation’s mission? Our town did not seek out the "gift" they asked the Tony Smith Estate for, and yet they act shocked and appalled that we dared to loudly protest and balk at them insisting on us spending hundreds of thousands of tax dollars so they can get what they think we should want! And, regarding the TS Foundation's warning us of the endless storage and insurance costs that will be incurred by S.Orange if the schedule for Fall installation isn't kept - ummm, can't the sculpture be disassembled and melted down or recycled somehow? I'd be willing to bet if that prospect were floated, someone would suddenly find that YES, we actually can transfer our "gift" to fabricate to another interested buyer in exchange for the costs of fabrication incurred to date! That, or we'd see that the obstinate the Tony Smith Estate would rather see a viable work of Tony Smith's melted down than have their demands on S.Orange not kept! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5738 Registered: 1-2004 |
MHD You are kidding, right? "Tau WILL be installed in Meadowlands Park (near the intersection of Mead & Ridgewood, I think)" There already is limited room in this park for all the soccer games. And what about when the kids go sledding? Don't they think someone will be hurt? And if they mean near the Baird Center it's even worse! What about the baseball games? If we have to pay for this thing why not Grove Park? There is plenty of room there! It also keeps people in the 'Village' where they will be more able to spend all the money Cheryl insists people will spend in town. It would be a good anchor on the East end of the 'downtown' area. With the other dinosaur SOPAC at the other. Lizzie I have a new term for the 'Sculpture People' 'Sculpture Vultures!' Because they are trying to suck the taxpayers dry. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 660 Registered: 1-2004 |
Pdg, good ideas for additions - maybe we can start a thread on improvements/concepts. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro  Post Number: 3635 Registered: 5-2004  |
JTA, the corner of Mead and Ridgewood is not on the hill. People don't sled there, nor is it anywhere near a soccer or baseball field. But didn't they just recently (last year or two) redo the landscaping at that corner? Personally, I think it's a better location (though still not great). The problem I see with Grove Park is that it's sort of buried in South Orange - there is no place to put it near a major road for people to notice it. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1065 Registered: 5-2004 |
JTA, watch the video when it is on. You won't believe the vitriol of the TS Foundation women who pontificated at length, complete with visual aides for the BOT (while ignoring the seated audience who were not shown any of them.) They took simply forever to get to their point, which was they were prosing a change to the location that was originally not negotiable. What a shame they were too blind to see that they wasted a wonderful opportunity to turn this entire nightmare to a positive in their favor! If they had one iota of respect for the people in attendance - not to mention the multitudes that signed the petitions - they would have made their point much quicker and might even have garnered the support and sympathy of some taxpayers for their willingness to finally be responsive and reasonable! But instead, they had to make it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were very unhappy, perhaps even despondent, about the proposed change and many of the people of S. Orange and it was clearly a most deeply personal offense to them. The largess of the BOT regarding the right of SOME to speak at the literal expense of others is duly noted. We paid $10/hr to a babysitter last night and my spouse missed the public remonstrances b/c the sitter had an 11 pm curfew - what a waste of time and money! I got home at midnight, and the SID remonstrances had just begun when I left. (Note, it was promised that SID remonstrances will continue at the next BOT meeting, when it is voted upon.) Oh, seating was limited since SOPAC and Tony Smith people took up most of the chairs, and I had the displeasure of sitting right in front of Judy and the other woman. They rudely commented, laughed at and whispered through every single speaker after them, until they thankfully left after the very lengthy SOPAC presentations. (At least SOPAC has the intention of repaying S.Orange, although there is apparently no payment schedule or specific business plan yet.) It was extremely difficult to hear the meeting for 10-15 minutes after the SOPAC people left since they stayed in the hallways loudly talking and laughing as if there couldn't possibly be anything important to discuss in the rest of the meeting now that their personal pet projects were thoroughly promoted! | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2091 Registered: 8-2002 |
much arrogance in this town. that Tau is not on Sloan St == BIG POSITIVE that the cost *may* be less to taxpayers = very postive that its in the park? = not so sure, need more details... THANKS to MHD for all your efforts! /p | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2360 Registered: 5-2005  |
Pgd. You must have been sitting close to me. The sniggering, laughing and comments being made by the Tau people were allowed to continue. If this has been any other party acting in such a fashion, they would have been told to be quiet, leave or face further action. Childish doesn't even begin to describe it, and yes, a wonderful and potentially productive opportunity was frittered away. | ||
| Nuff Sayid Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 452 Registered: 6-2005  |
I second Pete's accolades for Mayhewdrive. He was persistent, he was vocal and he was RIGHT! Through his efforts he huffed and he puffed and he blew the Pierro Foundation's doors down. Thank you, we are grateful to know (through the on-line petition drive) that sensible people with an appreciation for art live in the village too. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 303 Registered: 2-2003 |
On balance I think this is a good compromise. This compromise could have been arrived at MONTHS ago. It was suggested months ago, but the feedback was that because the gazebo site was specified in the contract, no compromise was possible. Whoever came to their senses (and I am *guessing* it was the Smith estate who suggested this--but if the idea came from Calabrese I'd even give him credit too) is to be commended. Now, that said, the slamming by Cheryl Arnedt of the thousand or so concerned citizens who wanted Tau done right, was totally uncalled for. A gracious speech praising the foundation's efforts and recognizing the need for balance, would probably have led to donations (sizable ones!) to the TS Foundation by some who signed the petition, including one from my family. Instead, Ms. Arnedt maligned the organizers of No Taxes For Tau, and by extension those who signed the petition. She accused the organizers of (horrors!) getting signatures in front of King's in Maplewood (where South Orange Shops!) Never mind that the Tau folks plastered cars with handbills, and on at least one occasion that I witnessed, went into Starbucks, a private place of business, to trash-talk the petition and its organizers. To be fair, there things that shouldn't have been said or done on all sides. The message should have been responsible use of tax dollars--all of the red herrings should never have been raised. I am hoping that (1) this compromise offer will be looked at carefully, to make sure all the dollars are accounted for and there is true transparency there; (2) If everything is as it appears, let's do this at Meadowlands; (3) we can stop the name calling and come together as a Village to solve other problems facing us; (4) that in the future, those wanting to champion a cause (be it pro-Tau, anti-Tau, redevelopment or anything else) will resist the urge to malign their neighbors. | ||
| Nuff Sayid Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 453 Registered: 6-2005 |
They have raised $110K for TAU (?) - I want to see it all spent on fabrication and installation before the town contributes a dime!!! The town's share should be minimalist...$170K is not. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2362 Registered: 5-2005 |
Re Ms.Arnedts comment that they got people to sign outside the Kings Supermarket in Maplewood, a very wise person told me last night that the reason this happened is that there is no supermaket in South Orange for anyone to get signatures outside... | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1072 Registered: 5-2004 |
I frequently shop at Kings in Maplewood for convenience! (and Whole Foods in Millburn, and when I have the time, Shop Rite in Livingston!) Her implication about someone soliciting petition signatures in Maplewood seemed to be that some signatures may belong to non-S.O. residents. Cheryl neglected to point out the non-S.O. residents on the Tony Smith Foundation, who are pushing us to spend South Orange tax dollars to fill our open space with their vision! | ||
| Nuff Sayid Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 454 Registered: 6-2005 |
Given the location change, I don't believe this project as newly constituted is budgeted! The assumed budget purpose was streetwork - huh? ..and please don't ask Matthews for an opinion - he's encumbered with research projects that he has already completed? Taken by surprise? (not at all).....very uninformative guy on initiatives and referendum even to the BoT during a public session when he was not willing to add insight into the public discourse about the referenced state statute. really top notch guy, employee of the frigin year.... | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 304 Registered: 2-2003 |
Perhaps if they modify the 6-inch-wide stretch of blacktop at Meadowlands Park, that will count as a street improvement? I acknowledge this COULD be an issue. I am HOPING that we can get around it, because if this compromise doesn't work and we're back to square one, it could be ugly. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 305 Registered: 2-2003 |
P.S. Have to share this...at the risk of being premature. My 7-year-old daughter was very glad to hear that the compromise announced yesterday would spare the gazebo, which is one of her favorite spaces in the Village. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4468 Registered: 5-2001  |
Pete, Nuff - Thanks for the kind words!
Interesting point. Exactly where is the $170,000 going to come from, since we can no longer use a bond for "Street Sidewalk & Roadway Improvements"??? P.S. My 4.5 year old calls the gazebo her "stage" since she likes to "act" out plays under it. She was SO excited this morning when her mom told her that her "Stage was Saved"! | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2094 Registered: 8-2002 |
oh, won't it be "near" a road... or perhaps the BOT will rename the park "Tau Road" /p | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23680 Registered: 6-2001  |
Stuart, when remonstrances did finally come around at 11:30 p.m. or so, I did make many of those points. I asked the board why they gave the impression for so many months that *nothing could be done about the statue* and I was promptly attacked by Jennings. I also pointed out the reason for the lateness was the length of time allowed to the previous speakers. I did forget to point out that the Pierro Gallery sent out a rather expensive, glossy plea to anyone who had signed the petition online. They stole addresses from the very petition that is opposing their pet project and they complain about concerned citizens getting signatures in front of Kings. Gee, wonder why they were at Kings, in Maplewood? | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1337 Registered: 5-2003 |
Cheryl Arnedt is a spoiled viper of a woman. Wukisch, however, is a village employee. Her behavior last night is indicative of the contempt that she feels for those villagers who dare to disagree with her. Guess what? She works for us. I think she should be fired from her paid vilage position. Let her run the volunteer foundation that bears her late husband's name, but let's get someone who has a bit of respect for the citizenry to be our cultural arts person. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2095 Registered: 8-2002 |
bets -- yes that moment was an example of the BOT at its worst -- Ms Jennings must have felt you were personally attacking her (she has a rough time with anyone who has an opinion different that hers) -- and began a 'tude with you. At least John Gross had a response (he could have given that explanation a few months ago as rationale for the hard line position). BTW -- I think you need a camcorder -- so you can get on tape those things we don't see or hear at home (!) -- pete | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23681 Registered: 6-2001 |
If you (or anyone else) wants to lend me a small one, I'll bring it with me. You'll have to bail me out if I'm arrested, however (not that I think the SOPD would do that, in all honesty). | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 533 Registered: 2-2006 |
Arnedt and Wukisch created quite a record about themselves last night which I will be commenting on later. Their self-absorbed melodramas, performed live before the BOT, filmed on the public's time and at its expense, because they can't continue to dip their hands into a public treasury as though it were their personal cookie jar, are unworthy of comment, save for the insidious effects they have had and may continue to have on the town. I agree, Lizziecat, Wukisch should be fired. This was not the first time she went out of her way to demonstrate her unworthiness as a town employee and erstwhile civil servant. Her carefully selected and vociferously defended plastic flower display in the park was ridiculous; her pretentious tripe about its significance, a cause of municipal chagrin; her disdain towards others and arrogance about her own abilities and judgement, risible if intolerable, in a public servant. She has proven herself even unable to avoid bringing public scrutiny to her shortcomings, so grandiose is her sense of importance. Enough is enough. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4470 Registered: 5-2001 |
I didn't understand their logic that the town HAS to pay the $170,000 that was already spent. Why can't THEY pay the town back (at least) the $100,000 that was supposedly raised? | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 662 Registered: 1-2004 |
Will our Counsel determine if there are restrictions associated to property deeds, Green Acre funding, Private use of Public land, etc.? I sure hope so before this alternative is presented to the BOT. One other important observation was the “vision” statements. Has there been a total buy in to being an “arts destination” or having a high-density downtown? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 534 Registered: 2-2006 |
Bets, thank you for your comments last night. Jennings was out of line in her response to your reasonable request for an explanation. Clearly, the BOT could have and should have found a way out of a contract the town never should have been a party to, particularly one rushed through with the express purpose of them then saying there was no way out. Any trustee who said previously Tau was "a done deal" because of her/his own rash attempts to bind the town to a bad idea, has no integrity and residents should remember it when they vote for trustees next spring. Thank you for confronting them with their own failed efforts at dissembling before the public, Bets. It took a lot of courage, just the kind SO needs a great deal of now. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2372 Registered: 5-2005 |
Look at the way Ms.Arnedt spat out that fact that the town has already spent $170,000 of the taxpayers money. It was almost as though it was a punishment for the residents standing up to her and her crowd. Since there is no contract between the town and the TSP there is every possibility that if we have indeed had that money spent, we will never see a penny of it coming back. To that end, I have a suggestion to make the best of it. I think that when the sculpture is finally positioned, a plaque should be prominantly placed that this is a sculpture by Tony Smith, a Native Son of South Orange, and that it has been purchased by either the Village of South Orange, or the residents of South Orange. After all, if it is Bonded/Town/Taxpayers money that has gone to pay for it and transport it etc, it is a true statement. It was obvious last night that the ONLY people of interest to Ms W. and Ms A were the Board, and the contempt and loathing for "Some" (1700+ residents who had signed the petition to date) others was very apparent. AS I said earlier, last night was a superb opportunity to have tried to have pulled the community together over this, to work with the whole community, to involved the whole community, but no, unfortunately, "taking the high road" wasn't in evidence. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1080 Registered: 5-2004 |
MHD, did you forget? They basically said 'good luck trying to get reimbursed from supporters of Tau.' As if to say S.O. Village ain't gettin any $ from the TS Foundation and good luck if we try to send bills requesting reimbursement to their supporters. Anyone else remember those comments? It was during their "presentation." | ||
| Spanish Inquisitor Citizen Username: Sinq Post Number: 79 Registered: 4-2004  |
That's disturbing. Who are these people? Can we get a list of their board members so we can assault them with bananas? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4471 Registered: 5-2001 |
PDG - I am waiting for the video download to complete & "highlights" will be coming in the next day or 2.  | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 306 Registered: 2-2003 |
Bets, kudos to you! Sorry I missed your comments live; I watched most of the first three hours or so of the meeting and then fell asleep. Haven't checked TiVo yet to see if it continued recording like we asked it to. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23682 Registered: 6-2001 |
I've already downloaded it and have it on CD. I'm planning some highlights, too, Michael. Maybe we should collaborate and avoid duplication of effort? | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23683 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thanks, Stuart. I can't stomach the antics and conduct of the BOT any longer, and am in it for the long haul. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 728 Registered: 6-2005 |
So why no 3 minute limit on Cheryl Arnedt and Judy Wutisch (sp?) at the BOT meeting? Weren't they speaking as private citizens? Once again, its the BOT providing unlimited time for those they favor. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3643 Registered: 5-2004 |
I would guess there was no limit for the Ta folks becuase they were on the agenda as a presentation, not as individual citizens, but as TSP representatives. I am curious... if the TSP decides not to reimburse the town, do their donors have a claim agsinst them for fraudulent fund raising (or whatever the term might be)? | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3727 Registered: 5-2001  |
From today's S-L New mold forms for sculpture project Alternate location picked in S. Orange Wednesday, July 26, 2006 BY AMBER ELLIS Star-Ledger Staff Plans to bring a Tony Smith sculpture to South Orange were scrapped and alternatives were adopted this week after residents used petitions and Web sites to vent their concerns about the art work's funding and location. "Tau" -- a contemporary piece by the renowned artist and native son -- will be placed in Meadowlands Park, a cultural hub that is home to outdoor concerts and nearby art galleries, instead of the slated Sloan Street location, a visible, high-traffic area. The village, which had agreed to pay $250,000 of the estimated $410,000 project costs, will now pay just more than two-thirds of that amount. The remaining $80,000 will be covered by the Lennie Pierro Memorial Arts Foundation, which launched the Tony Smith Sculpture Project in 2002. Controversy over the artwork erupted in recent months. It began earlier this year when several board trustees told residents that grants would be used to fund the project. The sculpture, they later discovered, did not meet requirements for the community development grant. The debate reached its peak as South Orange resident Michael Goldberg started a petition, which had more than 1,600 signatures be fore Tuesday's council meeting. Residents said that while they are far from "anti-art," they are against "local politicians making decisions with taxpayer dollars and no taxpayer input." Those who signed the petition argued the money for the sculpture could be better spent repairing the library's leaky roof or fixing Village Hall. Some who signed the petition have claimed the deal was done behind closed doors, but officials say all decisions were made in public -- the same as all other village business that affects residents. The trustees first discussed paying for the sculpture during a capital budget workshop in February 2004. An ordinance was introduced during an open session in July of that year and approved the next month. The public did not speak on the issue at that time. The $170,000 went toward the sculpture's fabrication costs and designing the original site. "This is old money," said Village President Bill Calabrese before Tuesday's meeting. "These funds were approved more than two years ago. We are not spending taxpayer dollars without their knowledge." Trustee Mark Rosner acknowledged the board did not handle the ordinance in the best way, saying information should have been presented clearly at one place and time. None the less, Rosner said it was a lesson learned. The foundation has been working to bring the piece to South Orange for about four years. Of the 10 to 15 Tony Smith pieces, "Tau" was the best fit because it was within the project budget and not as large as some of his other pieces. Market price for a real "Tau" could cost upward of $700,000, said Cheryl Arnedt, director of the project. The Smith estate allowed another artist to fabricate the piece specifically for South Orange for a price of $85,000. She estimated that when complete, the South Orange "Tau" will be worth more than $600,000. Sloan Street was chosen be cause it matched the group's four location requirements: space, safety, visibility and public art. Be cause it would have been home to the South Orange Performing Arts Center, Arnedt said the board saw the sculpture as a symbolic site of downtown renovations. Although, Meadowlands Park is not the foundation's first choice, Arnedt said it is near another cultural hub and should attract just as much attention. The sculpture will be placed at the corner of Mead Street and Meadowbrook Lane. Details of the exact location will not be released until construction plans are finished. "You can't just plunk public art down anywhere, but we've made adjustments and we are determined to see this through," said Arnedt. "It will be gorgeous. ...When it's done, this will all seem like a bad dream." In order to meet the scheduled finish date, the project director asked the village board to approve the alternatives Tuesday night. Wrapping up on time, she said, would allow residents to avoid using tax dollars for storage and insurance fees. "In September, South Orange will own 'Tau;' that won't change," Arnedt said. "What we'd like to do is preserve the integrity of this project. When we saw it was unlikely that the detractors would discontinue their campaign, we started talking about different strategies, ones that were realistic, responsible and reasonable." The board unanimously agreed to the changes. "Sometimes, alternative solu tions are far more attractive than the original proposals," said trustee Arthur Taylor. "I wish we could have gotten to this point without some of the ugliness involved." | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4473 Registered: 5-2001 |
I just love this line from Calabrese: "We are not spending taxpayer dollars without their knowledge". How can he forget this Classic BOT Meeting that started this whole mess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4V3Lw4zqd0 And exactly what "ugliness" was Taylor referring to? Perhaps THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FHUFJTw9gA | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 536 Registered: 2-2006 |
With the new remarks from Arnedt in the Star Ledger, the town should not pay anything for the sculpture. By all means, Ms. Arnedt should reimburse the town for the $170,000 already spent on the project. The new location should be decided as a matter of the master plan. As Janet Skrobe pointed out during the last BOT meeting, there are questions about preserving open space that need to be addressed. And Ms. Arnedt's sense of entitlement that makes her think she can keep details of the new location a secret, is the same problem she had before: presumptive arrogance in and about the public domain. Its really a shame there aren't professionals handling the sculpture project. Then its agents actually might solicit public support rather than claim to act in the public's best interest while trying to keep details of the project hidden from it. |
