| Author | Message | ||
     Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2458 Registered: 5-2005  |
On the same wavelength as you Rastro.. As much as I didn't want to see tax dollars at this time and with the current financial state of our town be used for something like this, this was never about Tau. It was never about art, it was purely about tax dollars and the placement in an area which was recently completed and still being paid for. I felt badly for the TSSP as personally I viewed the Board as making them scapegoats. Now I have no sympathy, in fact I hold them in total disdain. "They" had made a few snide comments in recent months, but Monday was just the pits. Snide, sneering, rude, pathetic comments. "Some" residents was spat out more than a few times. They came across as basically calling everyone who didn't agree with them uneducated, ill informed and "not worthy" - how dare they? Are they so full of their own self importance that they couldn't see what was really going on? I thought they were lying when they said about people passing out pencils etc then I was told that it was true. GOOD, people in our town were motivated and involved. I don't know who they were but I say well done. Arrogance and spite blinded them to the fact that they could have turned this round into such a positive and wonderful event for this town. All they would have had to have done would have been to stand up and say that it was not going on Sloan Street. Perhaps pubic opinion should have been sought at the beginning but they hear it now. Now they suggest an alternative. They could have said that they heard and understood the comments about the tax dollars due to the current conditions in town. WE WOULD LIKE TO INVOLVE AND EMBRACE THE RESIDENTS. Help us fund this. Help us bring this to South Orange, help us really fulfill our dreams of this wonderful and vibrant project come true. But no. Instead the residents were made to feel chastised and insulted. Art takes all forms - respectful speech is an artform that obviously "Some people" still need to study. | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1346 Registered: 5-2003 |
We know that 1,700 people in the town signed the petition. We don't know how many people are actually in favor of tau--I like to call them tauists. I figure maybe 50-100. Of course, we don't really know and Arnedt and Wukitsch aren't showing anyone any list of names and addresses. So stacked up against the 1,700 signatures on the petition, the tauists are in the minority. While I am all in favor of definding the rights of minorities, should these tauists be able to foist their agenda down the throats of the rest of us? | ||
| Nuff Sayid Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 459 Registered: 6-2005  |
Believing in your fellow man is a requisite. They abhor those who are not like them. That is the artistry of their public outrage. Their mindless wanderings on the canvasses of their lives and the putative discourse of I'll do what I want. I say be gone with them, we have no more time to embrace their chatter of I'm better than you. Let them fund TAU 100%. I might add, the placement should not be Meadowlands Park but Grove Park. Pierro Foundation should ask SHU for a contribution since it is so close to campus and may serve as a nice stroll to the village from campus when weather permits. The park section closest to South Orange Avenue currently has a walking circle and benches - its a perfect setting with a little refurbishment. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 566 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks, MHD, for your post on July 27 at 11:32 AM. Just had time to read it. To date it appears only $131,500 has been spent, not $170,000 as Ms. Arnedt and Ms. Wukitsch claimed last Monday evening. And of the $131,500, $71,500 was for a landscape design they got and tried to foist onto the town. This was their bill, not the town's. I really don't think the town should reimburse them for it, given that they were trying to tear out the gazebo which still had not been paid for, and have the town foot the bill for that also. So that leaves $60,000 that MAY have been spent to date. Surely they can raise that much from so many thousands of Tau supporters. Ms. Arnedt is a "professional" marketer, after all. This is a small sum as professional fundrasing goes. This way, Ms. Arnedt and Ms. Wukitsch won't be able to claim the $200,000 rebate to the village from the state LL has started a thread about. Maybe it could be applied to pay down some of the debt the town is drowning in. Although it will do little to reduce the $66 million debt, it could indicate a change in attitude on the part of the spendthrift BOT. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2507 Registered: 5-2005 |
Thanks SOrising, I also thought today about what really had been paid by the town. Not what we are told has been spent, but what actually has been spent. I would go as far as asking for the checkstubs, not a spreadsheet. I would also ask if ANY checks have been issued to pay back the Pierrot/TSSP/Baird etc for expenses relating to Tau. This is simply because they have been fundraising and I cannot think of one good reason why we would have reimbursed them for anything if they are holding $120,000+ in an interest bearing account. Accountability and credibility, it is as simple as that. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23720 Registered: 6-2001  |
And as far as storage costs, I thought the iron forge that is casting Tau offers it free until September 2007? The drama and lies we hear from "these" people are horrendous. | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 530 Registered: 4-2002 |
I suppose, if its really necessary, the village could pay us, say 1,000 a month to store TAU in our backyard..... Of course, we have some really aggressive squash and watermelon vines, so I cant guarentee that TAU wont become an even more integral part of the SO landscape  , but it would definitely have a good home. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23722 Registered: 6-2001 |
Excellent idea!  I'll bring it up at the next trustee meeting. | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 376 Registered: 2-2005 |
uh, Campbell, do you really want Lil' Quilter over there climbing that thing all the time? | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 531 Registered: 4-2002 |
Lil Quilter and Lil Campbell will just add to the interactive nature of the exhibit. I bet Lil Quilter could be up that thing in 30 seconds, whether or not she could get down would be a different issue, but we can always send up blankets and food for the 2 of them and know that they are appreciating art. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4508 Registered: 5-2001  |
Just saw the following Editorial in yesterday's News Record: Tau’ting Meadowland Park After a flood of public outcry, village officials have decided to place the Tony Smith sculpture, a fabrication of the late artist’s ‘ Tau,’ in Meadowland Park instead of on Sloan Street. News of the decision came from officials last week, following a petition that was circulated by residents who were incensed not only about the original resting spot for the sculpture, but also because tax dollars were going to help fund the effort. Many of the residents said there were other priorities the village needed to tend to, including crumbling buildings and a defunct air conditioning system in the library. They felt that officials had been dishonest as to how the project would be funded and wanted some kind of resolve. And last week, they got it. It was a triumph for residents, many of whom had been in an uproar regarding the project since March when they learned the village had plans to apply $ 250,000 originally slated for SOPAC, and apply it toward the partial funding of the sculpture. Prior to the decision, residents had been told repeatedly by village officials that no tax dollars would be spent on the “ Tau.” Needless to say, the decision to move money was an “ oops” moment for village officials, who were initially given the impression the $ 250,000 for the sculpture would be covered by a federal community development grant. Then, they discovered federal dollars couldn’t be earmarked for the sculpture, but could be used for development projects, such as the South Orange Performing Arts Center. The public was outraged. Piling on was the fact that art enthusiasts heading the project still needed to raise $ 160,000, for a total cost of $ 410,000, a far cry from the $ 85,000 figure residents were told four years ago when the idea was floated for the sculpture. What was tripling the cost were site preparations. Since the sculpture was set to be installed on Sloan Street, a gazebo was going to be moved and relocated, and the property was going to have to be revamped to accommodate the 14 foot- high, 21- foot- wide “ Tau.” Now, thanks to 1,700 petitioners, the gazebo won’t have to be uprooted, tax dollars will be saved, and we’ll get our art in the park. Kudos to the folks who were persistent and vocal about the project, and to village officials for listening to their constituents. While art is important, we need to focus our tax money on maintaining and improving structures that are already in the village, such as the library and Village Hall. These sites are important to our town’s history and quality of life, and should be first on our to- do list. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2558 Registered: 5-2005 |
Wow - the News Record printed that? Cool! | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1140 Registered: 5-2004  |
Too bad the author of that letter didn't have ALL his facts straight. Unfortunately, (s)he has served to misinform voters further. 1) Last I heard, the BOT had merely agreed to CONSIDER moving the sculpture to Meadlowlands park. This is not a done deal by any means. One resident objected to S.O. limited "Open Spaces" being used for such a construction and requested that the BOT look carefully at deed restrictions regarding Meadowlands Park. And of paramount concern is the new projected budget for the Tau project - at the last BOT meeting the budget was a complete unknown, and since the meeting many have found inaccuracies in the Tau Foundation's assertion that S.O. has "spent $170,000" to date. The money has been spent by S.O. Village AND the Tau Foundation, and by some accounts neither total $170,000! 2) IF Tau is installed in the Meadowlands Park, it is unclear whether the Bond that was "originally" approved to pay for the Village's commitment would permit use of funds for other than "streets and sidewalk improvements". There certainly are no streets or sidewalks relating to the location in Meadowlands Park that was suggested by the Tau Foundation. So, there may be a budget issue relating to the as-yet unknown cost to S.O. taxpayers 3) The 1700+ voters that signed the online and hard-copy petitions, were endorsing "NO TAXES FOR TAU!" Last I heard from MHD, the majority of people that have contacted him since the suggested location change still do not want ANY tax dollars to go toward this project. The ONLY way our Village Officials will truly be able to claim that they have "listened" to their constituents is to place this issue on the next ballot asking us if WE want any of our tax dollars to be used in this fashion and if yes a clearly stated Maximum dollar amount, and the expected SOURCE of those funds (i.e., if a bond, the expected interest rate, term etc.). | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2560 Registered: 5-2005 |
I was more impressed with the fact that the NR had reported something that didn't seem to make it a mouthpiece of the Village Administration. I had heard though and forget who told me, that the town has decided to put it in Meadowlands. I am also curious if any by-laws etc would prohibit this, and of course, since the Streets and Sidewalk repairs bond was being used for the position of it on Sloan, where they are getting (taking) the funds from now. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1141 Registered: 5-2004 |
MRosner - Say it isn't so!  I thought we'd hear the numbers referenced in your July 27, 2006 - 4:38 pm above, BEFORE this was a done deal. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2562 Registered: 5-2005 |
Pdg, I would have preferred to have heard all the figures etc before this was decided too. Maybe the person who told me was wrong, but who knows in this town. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4509 Registered: 5-2001 |
The News Record editorial above says "tax dollars will be saved", which is true since the taxpayer cost has gone from a miniumum of $250,000 to a maximum of $170,000, according to the BOT Meeting on July 24: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoPyQt7fYRM However, as raised during remonstrances that same night, why was there STILL no public discussion on this expenditure? The Trustees decided on their own that night to proceed with the "alternative plan" without any comments from the public, without asking what the TOTAL cost of the alternative plan will be and without asking what ever happened to the $100,000 the Sculpture People claim to have raised. I think PDG has got it right above: "The ONLY way our Village Officials will truly be able to claim that they have "listened" to their constituents is to place this issue on the next ballot asking us if WE want any of our tax dollars to be used in this fashion and if yes a clearly stated Maximum dollar amount, and the expected SOURCE of those funds (i.e., if a bond, the expected interest rate, term etc.)" | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 586 Registered: 2-2006 |
Nice summary, Pdg. Let's see if the BOT deals with any of the issues or just tries to plop Tau down in the Meadowlands without any discussion from the public, any consideration of the master plan, open space or money/bond issues. They tried to railroad it before, what will it take to stop them now? The 1700 petition signers and more probably. Everyone who signed it has their work cut out for them. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2888 Registered: 4-2002 |
PDG: Unless I missed a meeting, we did not pass a resolution to ok the current proposal. We also have not been given a revised budget or an explanation of the funding (exact amount from the village and exact amount from the fundraisers). | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10318 Registered: 4-1997  |
Also, can the ts estate quantify or cap the "emotional pain" damages Ms Smith feels entitled to should the sculpture be damaged or not repaired to her desired standards? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4515 Registered: 5-2001 |
Interesting take on the fiasco in Tracey's latest blog: http://www.nj.com/weblogs/southorange/ | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 842 Registered: 1-2006 |
Maybe the metal can be damaged. No one is damaged with it, unless they were on it, or in it at the time. It can be repaired. For anyone to claim she is entitled to money, (after all, cloaked in the guise of "art," that is what this is really about), because something she didn't create is accidentally damaged, speaks highly about her opinion of whether the sun revolves her, or she around it. heliotropically yours, jd | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1147 Registered: 5-2004 |
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't Ms. Smith passed away thus making the issue irrelevant? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10347 Registered: 4-1997 |
Kiki Smith, who runs the foundation | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1149 Registered: 5-2004 |
I see - thanks. | ||
| J L Bryant Citizen Username: Jeffbryant Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2002 |
Also echoing Pdg's point> The ONLY way our Village Officials will truly be able to claim that they have "listened" to their constitu ...... ected interest rate, term etc.). For me, this whole episode has NOT been about 'being exposed to', nor 'understanding of', nor 'appreciation for', nor ANYTHING to do with public art. This episode is ENTIRELY about a poorly-chosen, ill-timed expenditure of taxes IN LIGHT OF current fiscal conditions. If I am NOT given a chance to weigh-in on what my taxes are used for (i.e. - a referendum)..... THAT to me would be the pinnacle of irresponsible village government. What I don't know is about this villages' procedures & ordinances... how does Pdg's suggestion occur? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 596 Registered: 2-2006 |
Ask everyone you know if they are registered to vote, J L Bryant. Then try to get them to next spring. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4518 Registered: 5-2001 |
JL, According to the Village Attorney, technically there is no provision (with the way our town is chartered) for the public to initiate a referendum. However, other towns (such as West Orange) DO have such a provision. I can understand the politicians not wanting to put every expedinture up for a referendum. However, when 1700 residents sign a petition saying they do NOT want their taxes spent a certain way, it should send a very clear message. Whether the politicians listen to that message is yet to be seen. | ||
| J L Bryant Citizen Username: Jeffbryant Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2002 |
SOrising - Ummmm, don't you think by next spring this whole Tau thing will be done? Kinda?  What I meant was.... how does a referendum...... in SO.... occur? What steps, how, now. Not next spring. Believe me, next spring this current BOT is not on my list. What do we do NOW though? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4519 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ask Janine Bauer what her secret is to getting the Trustees to agree to a referendum.  | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1152 Registered: 5-2004 |
JLB - we tried via MHD's petition. As is well-discussed above, the attempt failed. What it did help accomplish was the Tau Committee's proposal of a change of location for the sculpture. While this is encouraging, and even is enough for some, many, many of the people that signed the petition do not want any taxes going toward this sculpture. Calabrese and friends attempted to quietly rush this taxpayer funded sculpture project to completion so that all any unhappy taxpayers could "do" after the fact is get angry for a minute and then realize what's done is done and move on - perhaps more apathetic re: local politics than ever before. What MHD has helped do is shed light on this project and it's slippery funding, bringing it to the public's attention BEFORE it is a done deal and HOPEFULLY encouraging the electorate to pay closer attention to village matters and educate themselves for voting in future elections! And for what thanks? Regular nasty and personal attacks in televised BOT meetings and Letters to the Editor sent in by Tau supporters. MHD needs our thanks and support - everyone who wants to DO SOMETHING should take 10 minutes to write a Letter to the Editor of the News Record - right now before your outrage loses its edge! No more than 500 words: News-Record 463 Valley Street Maplewood, NJ 07040 Attn: Editor, Ms. Tara Hayden or by email: newsrecordnj@yahoo.com In the Subject Line put: Attn: Tara Hayden Letter to Editor Your letter must include your name, address and telephone number and she will call you to verify your identity prior to printing. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4542 Registered: 5-2001 |
PDG, Looks like people took your advice as the News Record had FIVE Letters to the Editor this week defending the fight against the irresponsible use of tax dollars for Tau. These have been added online at http://www.geocities.com/theunofficaltonysmithproject/Editorials.pdf (There was also another tirade from one of the Tauettes attacking 1700 people as anti-art and anti-Tau. Will they EVER get it?) | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5868 Registered: 1-2004  |
Did you notice the use of the word 'some' again in the Oped? Maybe they should take their own advice. I want to know if there is all this support for the project, why haven't those who support it showed their support with their wallet? It was also stated, again, that flocks of people will come to town to see Tau. While here they will spend money in the restaurants and shops. Ah, I don't think so. By choosing Meadowlands Park over Grove, anyone who might come to see Tau will not be in the Village. They will have to walk a couple of blocks away from the Avenue. Grove Park would have been a much better choice as it would have kept people in the Village on South Orange Ave. Grove Park also has more room. I was over by Meadowlands Park today thinking where will they put this? It looks as if trees will have to be cut down to accommodate it. Why wasn't Grove Park looked at? You could have Tau anchor one end of South Orange Ave, The SOPCA the other. I think Tau in Grove Park would help bring more foot traffic to that end of town. Will they ever 'get it?' No. They won't... | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 623 Registered: 2-2006 |
Don't think its a done deal yet, JTA, as the town can't legally use the bond money it claimed it was going to for Tau. (Unless the mad rush at blacktopping roads without major repairs is some half-baked scheme to say all the street repairs needed in SO have been made and there is money left over for Tau. Are all the street and sidewalk repairs needed in SO being made now?) Grove might be better if the Tauistas can get it funded, JTA. Stay tuned. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5870 Registered: 1-2004 |
SOrising- IF they were to put Tau in Grove Park, I'd gladly donate $100. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1175 Registered: 5-2004 |
Me too, JTA. But first, they'd have to publicly apologize to everyone that signed the petition. And then they'd have to ask nicely. Speaking of asking nicely -- Have they even made one single effort to solicit donations from interested S.Orange residents???? Anyone? I sure haven't seen any public effort being made to fund-raise! You had to be on some special, elitist list in order to get one of the few invites to their little Black Tie Gala - what about the S.Orange residents? Why don't the people of South Orange count? How do they know we wouldn't want to be asked - politely and respectfully? How many potential donors have they put off with their horrible public displays of contempt? Why do they only seem to believe we are good enough to pick-pocket via our future property taxes, but not good enough to want to donate, if asked nicely? They should ASK us if we want the statue. They should ASK us where WE would like it to be placed. Then, they should ASK us for our voluntary donations. We are not cheap. We appreciate art in our own way. We believe our tax dollars should be used appropriately. And we give generously to causes we believe in and can trust to provide us with complete information. Because we want to. And because we are appreciated. It all comes down to simple respect. | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 778 Registered: 4-2005  |
Pdg - very well put. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4553 Registered: 5-2001 |
JTA/PDG, One of the sculpture proponents told me that a key factor in the location was that the sculpture needed to be visible from the train. I have no idea why, but I guess they genuinely think people passing through on their way to Morristown will decide to hop off the train and explore South Orange because of this single sculpture. (hopefully, the Beifus pit, Vose Avenue pit and Shop Rite grafitti won't deter them)  JTA, to alleviate some of your concerns about Meadowlands park, quite a while ago someone had actually suggested putting the sculpture IN the Duck Pond (on some sort of platform). This way, no open space would be lost and it would make tagging more difficult. | ||
| Nuff Sayid Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 475 Registered: 6-2005 |
I read the point of view article in the NR, yesterday. The writer still views 1700 signatures as a small group of thugs non-appreciative of the Pierro Foundation's wordly efforts to bring a TS sculpture to his home town. What a crock. It was never about the art, but the process. Two/three years ago, everyone thought it was a donation. The lies have been uncovered and they hurl the blame on the residents who offer a different opinion about the use of public funding. You want it, you raise the money - honey, but the location is taken by a previous reconstruction on Sloan Street - get it? The writer of such a long dictum tells me we must now insist on equal access to SOMACOM for community programming and discussion features. SOMACOM is about public access for all. It's time that we take issue with these folks as to how they limit public access and opposing views for local broadcast. She certainly did arouse this point in me. How does one join SO/COM of SOMACOM? We need a few new affirmative volunteers for equal access, now!!! | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 629 Registered: 2-2006 |
But if people were not able to get close to the sculpture, and view it from a variety of distances and angles, it really defeats the whole purpose of having a sculpture, MHD. Don't think the platform-in-the-duck-pond idea would work for these reasons. I'd be very surprised if the TS estate, his family or local supporters would agree with this idea. I would agree with them on this point. If it came to putting it in the duck pond so that it could be seen from the train, versus putting it in Grove Park which could be developed as an inviting gathering place, I'd go with the Grove alternative. |
