| Author | Message | ||
     Irvington Pirate Citizen Username: Irvingtonpirate Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2005 |
JTA posted "Why should the town have to 'reach out' to Seton Hall? Why can't Seton Hall reach out to the town?" OMG, please telling you are kidding with that post. You can't seriously believe that the university hasn't reached out to the town. Have you read any of the posts from the students to see the things that have been done? Sadly though, I think you honestly believe that the university hasn't done anything. You couldn't be more wrong if you truly believe that though. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1761 Registered: 7-2005  |
If Seton Hall wanted to reach out to the town they would stop this PILOTS nonsense and drop some real dough. | ||
| Irvington Pirate Citizen Username: Irvingtonpirate Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2005 |
JTA posted - If you go to Montclair, Wayne, Union or even Madison (which has three) you wouldn't know colleges are there either. And most of those have their own police force (not rent a cops) JTA, try to compare SHU to peer universities will you? Look at college towns like those of Villanova, Notre Dame, West Virginia, etc. These are schools SHU competes with on numerous levels including attracting students. The schools you are looking at are regional, largely commuter schools who draw mainly from New Jersey. SHU is a national school that draws their students from across the country. SHU is no longer the commuter school of years long gone by. About half of the undergraduates currently live in campus housing of some sort with another good chunk living locally (no, not with parents) in South Orange, Maplewood and other surrounding communities. SHU is working on increasing the number of out of state students too. Poke around the university website and you'll see everything I'm saying here. There are also plans to increase the undergraduate enrollment. Also, you may not be aware of this but those schools in Montclair, Wayne and Union are state schools and have police departments which is common for state schools. Private schools, like SHU, do not and usually rely on Security Departments that work closely with their local police. Another from JTA - I'm not sure why a banner is hung from the train trestle there and not here. I would think it's NJ Transit Property, right? Maybe Seton Hall hasn't asked? Again, you're kidding, right? SHU should ASK South Orange to please put up a sign welcoming the students back? OMG! South Orange should be happy to have the students back and happy to welcome them into town where they will undoubtly be spending a boatload of cash at the restaurants and other local shops. The Village should be welcoming the added businessand welcoming the students! | ||
| Irvington Pirate Citizen Username: Irvingtonpirate Post Number: 82 Registered: 6-2005 |
cmonty posted - Also, the people in Chapel Hill who live right by the university generally hate the students. That is, the residents who aren't professors. College towns always look more quaint and harmonious when you don't live in them. I agree to a point cmonty. What an outsider sees is usually better than what is actually going on day to day. Just curious but have you ever been to Chapel Hill? Especially when students move back to campus? It's phenomenal! All of the stores, shops and eateries have signs welcoming students back and all are busily serving or helping students and their families settle in. They are truly happy to see the students back. Now, drive through South Orange on Seton Hall's move in day...there's nothing, except a welcome back banner at Bunnies (gotta love them, they really support SHU) and possibly one at the tire store across the street. That's it. It's like the Village has the attitude that maybe if they're real quiet and don't make any sudden moves the students and their parents will pass through and not stop. It works too, sadly enough. | ||
| Irvington Pirate Citizen Username: Irvingtonpirate Post Number: 83 Registered: 6-2005 |
JTA - WOW! This one is going to take some time to respond to and that kind of time I just don't have tonight but I will try to address each of your points real soon. Stay tuned. This is the post I'm talking about... Irvington P How many times do I have to tell you I went to Seton Hall? I think I still have my acceptance letter in a box in our attic somewhere; want to see it? Bitter, not at all. But I will fight tooth and nail when students from SH think South Orange should pay for some kind of Jitney for students. I will continue to encourage residents to call the police about under age drinking and loud parties that disrupt the quality of life in South Orange. I will also speak out and not encourage SH buying any more property in town that will result in even a bigger tax loss. I don't think too many South Orange residents realize how much property the college actually owns. I could comment on why Chapel Hill, and South Bend take pride in the Universities located in their communities, but I'm not in the mood to get into an all out battle with you. And I don't know if you realize it or not, but you have totally slammed the people who live on Irvington Ave or any of those streets behind the college. If you really want to do something for the town, why not do something to help bring the area of Ward and Irvington Ave back to life? It's very close to campus. It's not that I don't think it would be nice for the College to have more of a presence in the Village, it's more I don't want SH to OWN anymore property in the Village because it would take that building off the tax rolls. to walk.' There is a big difference in being bitter against SH and looking out for the town I have lived in most of my life. | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 235 Registered: 9-2005  |
Come on people let’s get real – Seton Hall is the #1 leech of our community. They are the largest owner of real estate in town and do not pay a dime in real estate taxes. They consume 50% of the SOFD resources and I’m sure a good percentage of our police resources also. As I’ve posted before they purchased a home 3 doors away from me 6 years ago for $500K – it sat vacant for 4 years and $16K per year in taxes were stripped from the village coffers then last year they sold the same home for $930K. This from the same school that named not 1 or 2 but 3 buildings after convicted felons. They even had the disgraced CEO of Tyco, Dennis Kozlowski give a speech to the graduates of the business school! I would think anybody would be wary about getting in bed with this bunch. Seton Hall can recruit a highly desired basketball coach but will only volunteer ‘PILOT’ money when the community is giving them heat – so that the appearance of a good neighbor can be perceived. I asked before does anyone out there know how often over the last 10 years Seton Hall has actually made PILOT payments? I asked this question a number of weeks ago and have yet to get a responds? I'm speculating that the payments have been infrequent at best and are only made when the drums of discontent start beating in the community. Seton Hall is not and will never be a partner for progress in our Village that is the reality. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 507 Registered: 5-2005  |
Politicalmon Can you back up your figures? A 500K home in SO is a fairly average home, and they would pay 16K a year in taxes??? My mothers home in Mplwd. is in that price range or maybe a little more and she pays in the neighborhood of 10K. The buildings that were named for felons are an embarrassment to be sure, but when the donations were made there were no allegations about these donors. SHU accepted the donations in good faith as far as I can tell and got burned down the road. You admit that you don't know how many PILOT payments were actually made in the last 10 years and yet you have no problem speculating that they were infrequent...how did you come up with that conclusion? (you may very well be right I don't know but unless you have some facts to back up your accusations they serve no purpose other than to stir up the pot) | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 508 Registered: 5-2005 |
JTA The welcome back banner is supplied by the town...the reunion banner is supplied by Drew but hung by permission of the powers that be (Not sure if its the town or NJ transit) The plays are anyone's guess. You are right a simple banner could be the beginning of a better relationship with the town. Certainly couldn't hurt. | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 780 Registered: 4-2005  |
Yearly...equivalent to what these properties would be taxed... i'm still not understanding this whole PILOT argument about SHU and off-campus purchases. It makes absolutely, positively no sense. So to 'whoever' - I'll make it very basic again... and I'm trying my darndest not to sound condescending but this whole discussion has been going on forever and I always give the same answer and then the same people come back and perpetuate the same misinformation.... Here we go: John gives Jane $1 a day and calls it red. Jack gives Jane $365 a year and calls it blue. In 5 years - Jane got $1825 red and $1825 blue! Unfortunately, Confused Cory tries to convince Jane that Jack is not giving her as much as John is.... now Jane tells all her friends that Jack doesn't love her as much because she only sees blue once a year whereas John gives her red every day. What do you do? I'm not in the least bit trying to say that SHU can't do more as they can and of course, so can the village. However, on this ONE issue of off-campus properties and 'they're tax exempt' and 'we lose all that money' - there is no basis for argument. So if people want to argue tax exemption on the main campus - go ahead, do what makes you happy - but this argument simply does not work. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 510 Registered: 5-2005 |
In a leap year, John gives more LOL There are a lot of churches in SO that don't pay taxes either...some even have a great deal of property attached (look at Our Lady of Sorrows between the church, school, rectory, convent, parking lot and several houses it's a big chunk of change)shouldn't they be under attack too??? | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 236 Registered: 9-2005 |
Psychomom; The house was purchased in the 1999 - 2001 time frame by Seton Hall for $500K. The house sold for over 900K two years ago - It's a fairly large English Tutor on the corner of Center Street & Montrose on the SW corner of that intersection. Seton Hall did absolutely nothing to the house and if anything let it go into further disrepair. Before the run up in real estate prices $500K could buy you a substantial home in SO or Maplewood. Ask anyone who has been here more then 10 years what they paid for their house and you will see what I'm talking about. Is your mother's home in the 900K pricing range or did you misinterpret what I stated? $500K in 2000; $900K in 2005 - today's taxes in excess of $16K per year. Yes Seton Hall got burned alright - taking illicit money from white collar thieves - did Seton Hall consider returning the ill gotten gains so that people who actually lost their money may recoup more then the pittance the lawyers ended up with? Not a chance - I guess being a religious institution you would think they would have a problem with that? Why don't you ask the thousands of people who had their life savings wiped out if they could get their name on a plaque at the Seton Hall library since they inadvertently funded it? Yes, burnt down the road not once, not twice but three times. Doesn't that say something about the ethics of this institution? Or this just an aberration of the times - how many white collar felons from Columbia Business School? Any come to mind? I think not...Yet we have 3 major players who are alumni of this great institution. My accusations are meant to stir the pot so that the citizens of both Maplewood & South Orange get a close up look at an institution that has historically taken more than it gives while being subsidized by out tax dollars. I stand by my statement until someone can provide the history of 'PILOT' payments made to the village by Seton Hall. I asked this question last week and will defend my assumption until someone can provide the facts - How much has Seton Hall paid in 'PILOT' funds over the last decade? | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1764 Registered: 7-2005 |
Sheena, instead of just saying "that argument makes no sense" and "there is no basis for the argument" maybe you'd like to actually explain WHY? That little example you provided serves no purpose because as of yet, I have not seen any figures comparing actual, total PILOTS payments and what the tax revenue would be. | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 488 Registered: 8-2001 |
If Seton Hall college students have "boatloads of cash" to spend on local businesses then things have sure changed a lot from the days I was a college student! It seems quite silly to demand that an entity not under obligation to pay property taxes pay up anyway. That is an unreasonable demand, it will never happen. Be glad there is a PILOT program and arrangement with the school to offset the losses to the town, because without it, there would be no income here at all. Also "demanding" that the school "do more" without being specific is not constructive. And demanding that the school do things that are not of clear benefit to it is also barking up the wrong tree. It's just not constructive. My idea is that the business school and if there is a public policy school there, could build a curriculum utilizing a smaller, manageable mixed-use business district like Irvington Ave as an incubation lab. This would be benefical to the school in numerous ways, including making the area directly around its own campus more vibrant thereby potentially attracting more students. I'm not saying the school should be excluded from involvement in other parts of town. It's just one idea. But, it is an idea, not a complaint. And it would require active participation of the local community in that area to be successful. A program like UConn's feels, in our case, as if it would be both parties biting off far more than they could chew right now. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 514 Registered: 5-2005 |
Politicalmon Is your mother's home in the 900K pricing range or did you misinterpret what I stated? $500K in 2000; $900K in 2005 - today's taxes in excess of $16K per year. It sounded on your original post that you were implying that SO was missing out on $16K per year for the 4 years SHU owned the property...that is why I am saying the numbers seemed skewed. If I misunderstood I stand corrected. Getting burnt 3X is cause for concern but I don't think it is ethics but rather poor donor research. As far as Seton Hall refunding the $$$ Where do you propose they get this money from??? The buildings are built, they are being used by students, it's not like you can cash them in and get your money back. Just because none come to mind, doesn't mean that there aren't any...I don't have the time or interest but I know that other universities have gotten similarly burned by their donors. If not Columbia then maybe someone else. but anyhoo, this thread was about SHU and SO helping each other so that is what we should be discussing. | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 239 Registered: 9-2005 |
If Seton Hall truly wanted to help they would pay for the use of village services - Fire Department, Police Department & EMS - is that a lot to ask for? It's bad enough that they play the real estate investment game, make huge $$$ gains and pay no real estate taxes - We're not talking about Churches or Synagogues here we're sticking to 'investment property'. If out BOT had the balls they would send a bill to Seton Hall every year demanding payment for the services in addition to limiting their ability to purchase investment property in our village that has few ratable and exorbitant real estate taxes. Does anyone out there know how we can obtain a listing of all village property owned by Seton Hall? I believe the real deal would be to evaluate their real estate portfolio in SO & Maplewood. Calculate how much we are losing in real estate taxes. Add the cost of services and subtract the amount we received from the ‘PILOT’ program. Then and only then will the true tax liabilities placed on the taxpayers of our village become apparent. I also find it unsettling that the village attorney Mr. Matthews who felt it wasn’t in the best interests of the taxpayers to go after the polluted ‘Shop Rite’ site – as the million dollar plus cleanup was passed on to the taxpayers is also a Seton Hall alumni. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 518 Registered: 5-2005 |
I'm confused... Isn't the PILOT money supposed to be a payment to the town to help defray the expenses that ordinarily would be taken out of taxes?? If so then SHU is paying for the use of FD and Police and EMS. BTW Mr. Matthews would be an alumnus not an alumni...alumni is plural...see SHU did educate me LOL | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 240 Registered: 9-2005 |
Psycomom, Yes, the 'PILOT' money is to help defray the expenses Seton Hall consumes. But since it's not mandatory and I've yet to see an accounting of 'PILOT' payments over the last 10 years I have to believe that the village taxpayers are getting the short end of the stick. In addition I as a taxpayer would be interested in seeing a full accounting of what they consume, what we miss in real estate tax payments in lieu of the nonprofit status and what we recieve in restitution. With that information taxpayers of this community would have the information to decide what the best course of action should be. Out of curiosity are you a resident of SO or Maplewood? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 643 Registered: 2-2006 |
I think Psychomom is right, Politicalmon, about PILOTS. If so, SHU is paying something for services in town. You raise an interesting point about real estate speculation, however. I think the BOT should craft ordinances that discourage or even effectively prohibit speculation only by any entity that buys real estate in town and lets it sit idle or deteriorate during the time it owned it, whether it is a non-profit or for-profit. But to do this correctly, they would need to hire an expert in real estate law. If they tried doing it without it, it could be worse than it is now. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 520 Registered: 5-2005 |
For the record politcalmon I am a resident of neither Mplwd or SO but lived in Maplewood for many years and still live closeby and thus my interest in the MOL board. SOrising, you have raised another issue about property sitting idle. If the property does deteriorate aren't there ordinances to deal with the issues of neglect? I know in my town if things aren't up to code we get slapped with a summons. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5926 Registered: 1-2004  |
IP Perhaps you didn't see the second sentence in my post you half quote in your 11:36 post. I did say, in the next sentence "Perhaps both the town and the college are to blame for the bad feelings?" And, yes I am aware of the *students* posts. BUT, perhaps the town would listen more if SH's administration reached out. Then again, the BOT doesn't listen to the residents; what makes us think they'll listen to college students? | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5927 Registered: 1-2004 |
Psycho The difference between SH and the places you mention is those places in no way take up as much time from our police department as SH does, I'm willing to guess even if you combined all of the other tax exempt places SH still uses more of the town's resources then they do. Another thing; beside SH, I can't think of another organization that has asked for any of the things the students have. If some other organization has, maybe someone can enlighten us? I hope the town says "NO" to any future tax exempt organizations. We have enough already. | ||
| Grspring Citizen Username: Grspring Post Number: 101 Registered: 6-2004 |
The John Jane Jack theory is interesting except Jack, (property owner), gives Jane (the town) $365.00 per year but has to increase it by 4% each year(just like property tax). At the end of 5 years Jane has $1976.96 from Jack and only $1825.00 from John (Seton Hall). So if John wants to get to first base with Jane he should up the ante. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 531 Registered: 5-2005 |
Grspring In the end there is only a $151.90 difference anyway, hardly enough to sway anyone. | ||
| Grspring Citizen Username: Grspring Post Number: 102 Registered: 6-2004 |
Yes Psycomom but remember that if Jack doesn't give Jane what she wants, she can take it from him by legal action. Against John there is no recourse. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 648 Registered: 2-2006 |
Psychomom, I am no expert on code enforcement in SO, however, it seems that, like so much about the town, it is erratically enforced. Many allege the lack of professionalism is due to general cronyism among various town leaders, past and present, and the fact that the building code enforcement officer in town is a product of nepotism or such cronyism rather than because she has any professional training appropriate for the job. But who knows. Maybe her erratic actions are dictated directly by the town administrator. As for ordinances that may fall outside of her purview, I doubt there are enough to prevent real estate speculation. If there were, then, again, its an enforcement issue and I don't know who is suppose to enforce ordinances, who is suppose to act as a prosecutor for the town. The village counsel? If so, we are without a prosecutor, effectively. South Orange is vulnerable to all kinds of undesirable exploitation because the political institutions (such as the electorate and BOT) don't do what they are suppose to do and other kinds of law enforcement/higher prosecutorial agents can't be bothered with us. Generally, a major problem is no effective oversight of town administration by the BOT and several new trustees are needed to change it. Legal protection and enforcement just seems non-existent for anything that really matters short of murder. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Momof4peepers Post Number: 160 Registered: 12-2005 |
Here's what I would like to see. A few "boutique" hotels that have decent restaurants and bars on the lower level and maybe a couple of conference rooms. A bookstore, a spa/salon, a gym, an in-and-out gourmet sandwich shop, a post-SOPAC dessert only place, a tapas (or pre-SOPAC) place, and that's all my tired brain can think of right now. How does this belong in a thread about SH? Well, I think SH could commit to X number of nights in the hotel to put up visiting lecturers/recruits/etc. Commit to X number of meetings (they do, I assume, have off-site meetings?) at the hotel. They could also provide the information that Y number of students from outside NJ visit the campus to tour, which would result in Z number of hotel nights booked. Not necessarily related to economic development, but SH could also require it's freshmen? seniors? frats/sororities? to complete so many hours of community service to South Orange. River cleanup, fall cleanup prior to homecoming, M/SO district classroom painting (similar to what Starbuck's is doing), spring cleanup/planting would all be fair game. And I have no idea who to even approach to get a ball like this rolling. | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 781 Registered: 4-2005 |
The University already requires commmunity service to students. All the things you listed Elizabeth already take place. Ironically, many students don't need the mandate because they enjoy helping the community already. We gave a presentation to the BOT back in February (I think) and the community service director of the Village Liaison Committee detailed what initiatives were being worked on (clean-ups, reading to children at the library, etc.). In Sept., you'll see hundreds of students with SHU500 shirts in the downtown doing various community projects - that is the day the University dedicates to the community and everyone participates. If you have ideas, you can send them along to me and I can help you get them to the right people. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Momof4peepers Post Number: 161 Registered: 12-2005 |
Thanks Sheena. Hopefully some other posters will see the SHU5000 shirts as well. I'm surprised at the vitrol on this post about SHU. Personally, I'm glad the university is here, and don't begrudge it's tax-exempt status any more than the numerous other nonprofits, churches, synagogues, etc. in town. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1775 Registered: 7-2005 |
Sheena, I'm still waiting for an explanation of your previous post. Anyway, c'mon explain to me why "this argument simply does not work." | ||
| Sheena Collum Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 782 Registered: 4-2005 |
Glock - call the Village Administrator and ask him for the details of the past decade or whatever finances you'd like to see. If someone pays nearly the same amount in PILOTS as if they would in taxes EVERY YEAR (not once every 20 years) - the off-campus properties are then equivalent to properties you would buy. That's why it simply doesn't work. If you want to blame the state that some properties are exempt that's fine. But remember that SHU could purchase as many properties as they would like off-campus and be tax-exempt... yet they don't and they opt to pay a PILOT. Call it what you will. This issue has been discussed plenty of times on MOL on different threads and I always answer the same way. So if I'm not answering questions, it's just because it's frustratig when the same people ask the same questions and then post the same misinformation. ALSO - I'm sure the off-duty SOPD officers would love to know that they're considered 'rent-a-cops' because... as I have stated beforeeeeee.... off-duty SOPD are hired and they are on our campus. We don't need an entire FORCE - they do a great job along with our internal security. | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 500 Registered: 8-2001 |
Seriously, focusing on the SHU PILOT is a red herring. There are far more constructive things we could be talking about. It's not like a PILOT granted for residential or commercial development, where the property clearly WOULD HAVE owed taxes and they have been "forgiven" if you will. After all, the land in question is clearly shielded from taxation and we're damn lucky SHU has agreed to pay PILOT $$ to the town "in lieu" of taxes they don't even legally owe. You might as well go bang your head against that wall surrounding the campus. Or change -- what? the state constitution? -- to enable taxation of SHU's property. That is really not a constructive direction to take here, nor likely to succeed. A better analogy than all this goes something like: John owes you nothing and has no obligation to pay you a penny. But John borrows your stuff pretty regularly, so he's agreed to drop something in your pocket regularly to make sure you don't go off and sell the stuff he borrows. It is possible to instead emphasize the areas where the town and the school work well together, and try to leverage that and indentify even more mutually beneficial areas to grow. Or we can keep harping on something that is pointless because it can't and won't be changed. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1777 Registered: 7-2005 |
The problem is that John borrows your stuff whenever he feels like it (Police, fire, rescue). Then you need it and you can't have it because John is hogging it all. Maybe John needs to take that money and buy his own stuff. | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 508 Registered: 8-2001 |
So you're saying SHU should stop paying SO under the PILOT program and instead use that money to hire its own police, fire, ambulance, etc? | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1779 Registered: 7-2005 |
IF they don't feel like paying out a decent amount of money...well then they should get their own force. I realize my post said they should stop payments...that was a mistake. either way they need to get their own police. I don't want to have to wait for an officer because 3 or 4 of them were tied up dealing drunken SHU partygoers. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1965 Registered: 12-2003  |
So, Glock, you're saying you call the police, and they don't show up because they're all at Seton Hall dealing with drunk partygoers? When did this happen? The last time, for instance. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 540 Registered: 5-2005 |
I suppose the police never find anyone in SO drunk except SHU kids??? And they never respond to serious crimes on campus like assaults, rapes, robberies etc. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Momof4peepers Post Number: 162 Registered: 12-2005 |
I will say that having had the SOPD at my house twice in the past 3 months (one at 1:30 a.m. for a car hitting the tree in front of my house the other at 5:00 p.m. because my nearly-5-year-old wanted to see what happened when he called 911) that they were here within 5 minutes of the call. Which is about as long as it takes to drive from the Police station to our house. The town is probably safer because the number of (purported) calls to SHU means we NEED as many police officers as we have. Take away the calls to SHU, and then there's no justification for the size of the police force. Fewer police = increased crime = lower property values. | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 258 Registered: 5-2005  |
glock, arent you a college student too? By your logic, all college age people are constantly drunk requiring police assistance or supervision. Whats your story? Also, Im interested to hear the details of the last time you called the SOPD and they were too busy at SHU to come to your aid. | ||
| Politicalmon Citizen Username: Politicalmon Post Number: 252 Registered: 9-2005 |
Focusing on the “PILOT" is not a red herring, I would think as a taxpayer of the community (for those of you that are taxpayers) you would be interested in truly seeing what SHU brings to the table. Do they pay the 'PILOT' every year? Given that it's volunteer program I wonder? They obviously use our services every year regardless, so therefore let's see if they are a partner of the village or a user of the village resources. Sheena, you assume they pay the 'PILOT' every year? Do you know that as a FACT? Since you have been unable to come up with numbers that's a pretty big assumption you’re making without having the FACTS in hand. | ||
| Psychomom Citizen Username: Psychomom Post Number: 549 Registered: 5-2005 |
Politicalmon One could use the same argument with your logic...Since YOU have been unable to come up with the numbers either why do you assume that SHU does NOT pay PILOT every year? |
