| Author | Message | ||
     sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 1880 Registered: 5-2001 |
Taylor M - The only thing I recall was voting in national elections (the 1976 presidential election actually, since it was my first one), but I am pretty sure that we were fully registered for all elections. I don't think I ever voted in a local election until I was out of school and working but I think that was a matter of apathy rather than restriction on the voting. I was actually from Houston (or actually a separate suburban town of the Houston metro area) myself, but I certainly would have been in a different precinct and voting for a different slate of local officials from the one for my home if I had chosen to do so on campus. As mentioned before, I do think that this varies from state to state and may also have changed over time, so I'm not sure what the implication is for New Jersey today. However, in whatever state, I think I side with the students on this one. They are of age and they do live here. And, they are, at least to some extent, affected by the decision-making that goes on, so I think they deserve a vote. We don't restrict the voting to homeowners (vs tenants) because of their taxpaying status, so that argument doesn't really hold water with regard to the students either. | ||
| vermontgolfer Citizen Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 289 Registered: 12-2002 |
If students want to vote in local elections, fine, as look as they pay taxes like the rest of us. Sounds simple to me! | ||
| noracoombs Citizen Username: Noracoombs Post Number: 62 Registered: 8-2002 |
Vermontgolfer: I'm assuming you're talking property taxes here, and you don't have to pay those unless you're a homeowner. People who live in the various S.O. apartment complexes don't pay property taxes, but they can still be legal residents of South Orange. Bob K: SHU registered close to 1,000 students--more than enough to swing the local election. (And from the SHU students I know and have talked to, they're well aware of this.) The problem is that this year's local elections are held after SHU finishes up for the year, so if the 1,000 students who registered as SO residents want to vote in the local election, those students who go home for the summer are going to have to do it via absentee ballot. I suspect you'll see a good push for that by SHU students involved in the voter registration drive. Taylor: I actually live in the SHU district (District 12), and in fact, on the same street as the old polling place. Yes, I have to go a little farther to vote now, but IMO, the enthusiasm of the students who were motivated to register so many voters made up for the longer distance to vote. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 416 Registered: 3-2002 |
Although I'm not keen on large numbers of students voting on local issues, I've got to say, suggesting that voting rights should be limited to property owners smacks of how things were done before the era of civil rights! What's next, poll taxes? It often makes sense for students to register where they attend school. When I was a student, dealing with absentee ballots was a a nuisance, as was trying to keep up with the issues long-distance. I no longer lived with my parents, didn't read their local paper, and wasn't about to accept their political opinions without information, since we often disagreed. I'm hoping that students will live by the same standard that I lived by during the years when I was a student registered locally. I only voted in races were I understood the issues and felt that it was appropriate to vote. Much of the time that meant that I voted for state and national level offices, but not for the town and school district offices. Honest truth, I'm not overly worried about SHU students swinging a local election...If someone ran with an agenda so SHU-facing that students would be motivated to get absentee ballots, I think that resident turn-out would increase in response to the issues being discussed. | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 363 Registered: 8-2004 |
If you want to claim South Orange as your legal residence and want to vote in OUR local elections for OUR local officals then your parents shouldn't be allowed to claim you as a dependent. If you want to register to vote here and you have a driver's license it needs to be a NJ one. If you own a car it needs to be registered in NJ. (2 examples) I still don't feel college students from out of state, living here 9 months out of the year should be allowed to vote in elections that effect NJ. Even more so against students who reside in the dorms or off campus 9 months out of the year being allowed to vote in elections for South Orange officals. The only reason they're here is to attend SHU. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2005 |
Totally agree...Why can't a college student be interested enough in voting to realize they have to get their absentee ballot weeks in advance and they can have a say in their personal local election. | ||
| BMO Citizen Username: Bmo Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2005 |
If a student is originally from a small town out west, how is that person supposed to keep up on the local politics and issues? And better yet - what do those politics have to do with SHU students if they reside in NJ for most of the year? | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 732 Registered: 12-2003  |
Of course Seton Hall college students should be able to vote in local NJ elections. They live here most of the year, the laws affect them (contrary to what people here want to believe, local politics is about more than property taxes). Would you ban retirees who winter in Florida from voting in local elections? What about residents who spend most of their day working in New York City? Anyway, this is all getting rather xenophobic. It started with let's make sure tehy aren't using our ambulance, and now it's lets make sure tehy aren't voting in our elections. What next? And why are people somehow assuming that having college students -- a generally educated bunch -- vote in an election is somehow inherently a bad thing? "Honest truth, I'm not overly worried about SHU students swinging a local election...If someone ran with an agenda so SHU-facing that students would be motivated to get absentee ballots, I think that resident turn-out would increase in response to the issues being discussed." Why all the assumption that every issue is either pro-SHU or pro-South Orange, but never both? | ||
| vermontgolfer Citizen Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 290 Registered: 12-2002 |
cmonty, I generally agree with most of what you post, however your reference to "retirees" doesn't hold water here. If they are property owners, they pay local taxes and have every right to vote. If they are renters, one would assume the landlord receives rent, which in turn would allow them the right to vote. It would appear I'm in the minority here, but I don't agree with allowing students, not just SHU students, to vote in a local election unless they are full time residents or full time renters. | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 366 Registered: 8-2004 |
BMO Do YOUR parents claim you as a dependent on their taxes? Do you have a driver's license? Does it have a South ORange address? Do you own a car? Is it registered in South Orange? | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 367 Registered: 8-2004 |
cmonty- They might 'live here' most of the year. but it's not considered their 'legal' residence in most cases. At least thats how it was when I went to college. IF your parents claimed you as a dependent, you were considered a resident of that state. It wasn't easy for a stundent to apply for financal aid as an independent because they had to make a certain amount of money to qualify as one. If mommy and daddy claim a student on thier taxes or if the student is on the parent's insurance policy they should in no way be allowed to vote in the elections here. Get an absentee ballet. Those fighting the war do, and they have a lot more on their minds then a bunch of college students! As for retirees who winter in Florida. NO they shouldn't be allowed to vote in Florida. As someone pointed out, you can only be registered to vote in one place anyway. If people should be allowed to vote under the two examples you gave, then there are plenty of New Jersey residents who should be able to vote in NY. As mentioned in another post, I know of several people who bought apartments in NYC and live there during the week because the commute is too much. They don't expect to vote in NYC elections. And THEY pay taxes there. I'm not against SHU, I practically grew up on the campus. My dad taught there until the 70's. I hung out there while in high school, my sister graduated from SHU and I've gone there. (too bad my dad wasn't still teaching there at the time we could have went for free)  | ||
| e roberts Citizen Username: Wnwd00 Post Number: 328 Registered: 3-2004 |
Taylor I agree with you. I think for an SHU student to vote as a south orange resident they should not only have a south orange address on their drivers licsense, car registration, and some type of bank or utuility (cell phone bill). The issue is not that i am against college students voting but I am against SHU students voting in south orange because of lazyiness or ease on their parts. The local elections should really not concern students living on campus beacuse typically local elections are for local politicians, school boards, and tax related issues. local elections are typically not filled with local propositions and proposed laws and if they are they related directly to local taxes which as a shu resident student they do not pay. so i believe that shu resident students should vote where their home is,and i mean real home what their license says or where their parents claim them as a dependant for tax purposes. off campus students renting an apartment or whatever of course are free to do what they like but they are also typically more of a legitimate resident then on campus. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 1885 Registered: 5-2001 |
As mentioned in an earlier post, I think that there was a court case years ago that already decided this issue, and allowed students to vote in the locale where they attend school, back when many of us were college students and perhaps viewed this issue from a slightly different perspective. I don't think that changing this is within the power of the local municipality anyway. I also don't think that there has been any evidence of any election results hinging on this issue, so why not spend energy on issues that are really making a difference in your lives? | ||
| doublea Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 932 Registered: 3-2003 |
sac is correct. The matter has been decided and the courts have ruled that students who attend a college or university for nine months of the year have the right to vote in local elections as well as national in the municipality where they are living. Any arguments as to why they shouldn't be able to vote are moot. For those who are interested, google "Rock the Vote" to find out more about this subject. The SHU students are going to be heard from. In fact, a SHU student might even run in the local election. We're not just talking about this year, but in all future elections. This is the reality of the situation. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 569 Registered: 4-2004 |
Voting regulations are already in place, and students have the right to vote where they attend college. Everyone has to have access to the process. BMO- I'm not put off in the least by the prospect of an S.H.U. student running for local office. Seton Hall voters have already turned several local elections to date. I think the more pertinent question is whether or not residents outside the school would be willing to back such a candidate, and I think the answer is "yes...if". The "if" is whether that student/candidate can demonstrate an adequate knowledge and concern for all issues, and whether or not that same candidate envisions being part of the community beyond their college attendance. Youth, inexperience and lack of local history can be impediments for a candidate in some eyes, but they can be overcome by intelligence, reasonableness, committment and an objective mind. We each make our own name in politics (and life) and we all start somewhere. Best of luck! | ||
| singlemalt Supporter Username: Singlemalt Post Number: 843 Registered: 12-2001  |
I have no problem with large numbers of students voting in our local election. Based on the current President and lot of trustees (minus Mark R. & Patrick), I doubt they could pick anyone worse than we already have. | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 369 Registered: 8-2004 |
You are missing my point. I do not care if a SHU student votes in our elections as long as they have a South Orange address as their PRIMARY residence. Driver's license, registration with South Orange addreses, not being claimed on mommy and daddy's taxes if their parents live somewhere other then South Orange AND they are registered as a voter here. If they want to be considered a South Orange resident and want to vote in elections that decide our local officals, their legal douments should show they 'live' here and not elsewhere. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 1886 Registered: 5-2001 |
I didn't miss your point. I just don't believe it matters if they are someone's dependent or not or whether they have any of that other paperwork. They are adults and have the right to vote and a long time ago a court decided that they could vote in the locale where they attend school. I think you might be having to go way up the line (maybe even to the Supreme Court) to change this ... is there really a problem here that would justfiy that? And, if so, are you ready to do so? If not, I'm just suggesting that there are plenty of other issues that ARE within local control on which to spend your energy. | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 540 Registered: 5-2001 |
There's no real connection between election law and tax law that I'm aware of, and rightly so. So as long as you do indeed have a residence in South Orange, I believe you are legally be able to register to vote here. The dependant argument seems like a compelling one at first blush, but someone being able to claim you as a dependant for tax purposes does not make you less of a citizen after all. I do believe, however, that to register as a voter in a jurisdiction, you must be able to demonstrate you maintain a residence there. A commuter student who lives in another town but has a Seton Hall mailbox for example, I do not believe would be able to register to vote here. Well good luck to you, BMO, if you are indeed going to make a run for the BOT. I'll give you a fair shot to earn my vote. But take my advice and be quick about it, get yourself out of this particular debate, you may win it or lose it but either way it's not going to win you an election. | ||
| mjc Citizen Username: Mjc Post Number: 326 Registered: 10-2004 |
Good advice, argon, though it looks as though BMO has not taken the bait on this debating point. Now hopefully this thread can get back to the informative and maybe even productive exchange it started out to be... |
