| Author | Message | ||
     Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 166 Registered: 10-2004 |
cmonty - except for the fact that the courts are under construction -  | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 657 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thank you cmonty...those thoughts have been building in my mind too. I hope that no one is assuming that because some players leave town after the game, all players are non-residents. Should our youth only have friends from within our fair town? How many guests per resident would you allow? Would you feel different if they were walking back to Maplewood? Should I feel guilty when I use parks in another town? If there are problems with court rules, foul language or late-night noise, let's solve them through the appropriate channels (perhaps including some "community policing", and maybe paying someone to go lock up the courts at some fairly late hour -- 11 PM for teens?). I'm happy to hear discussion of realistic solutions; however, the level of seeming xenophobia in this discussion is troubling to me. | ||
| Joe Citizen Citizen Username: Joecitizen07079 Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well Susan, Hoops, & Mr. Burns; see here is my problem with your theories. I totally understand the universal basketball court etiquette, and not isolating South Orange from the rest of the world, but you see I pay over $18,000 a year in property tax (not at the top in South Orange but not at the bottom either) and I would like to be able to use the public basketball courts that my tax dollars help maintain when ever I want I do not want to have to wait for hours on end while residants of "ANY" other town are using these courts. Now if such residants would like to use these courts they are welcome but I feel that some groundrules should be established 1. they should give up the court right away when a tax paying residant wants to use them or 2. if the previous is not exceptable then make them pay either a daily or yearly fee to use these facilities. & 3. if neither 1 or 2 are exceptable then go home to your own town and play basketball there. You know the reason that municipalities around NJ have removed public basketball courts is becouse they attract gang violance, and while I no we have our own problems with members of gangs that do live in South Orange I surly don't want to see them having their fellow members or rival gang members from other towns come to the Baird Center to use our basketball courts. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7273 Registered: 1-2003  |
What is the relevance of the amount you pay in taxes? | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 313 Registered: 6-2003 |
Cmonty - I am not necessarily against people from other towns using it, I am against a small group of teens from any town dominating the court, not letting other people use it and treating the area residents like crap. I think it was Just the Aunt who reported asking for time on the court and being told to F off or something to that effect. I can see some people prefering it be restricted to only local teens/residents because it might prevent the rudeness and disrespect that has been expereinced because local kids 1) have a stake in the town 2) if they act in a disrespectful way it will likely be to their neighbors, friends, teachers, etc. which would come back to haunt them as these are such small towns. I have first hand experience with some of these kids treating my neighborhood with total disrespect and disregard for the people who live in it. We used to have a community hoop in our neighborhood that kids from Orange began using. We didn't object and some of the kids were really cool in how they used it. However a larger group of kids began using it and refused to respect our neighborhood. They littered all around the hoop, and began trespassing into my neighbor's yard, wandering around. Lastly, we repeatedly asked that they not hang on the rim - they flagrantly ignored our requests and broke our community hoop. Nice hugh. YOu want these kids hanging around your neighborhood at 2 am? In terms of community policing, why don't you hang out here at midnight and when 6-8 teen agers who have already demonstrated anti-social behavior walk by the house yelling m*ther f*cker, why don't you go out in your pjs to talk to them. I'm sure they will apologize and repent to the stranger standing in front of them, don't you agree. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7277 Registered: 1-2003 |
CageyD, will people who are that disrespectful and intimidating be influenced by rules about residence? | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 658 Registered: 3-2002 |
Cagey, sorry for any misunderstanding. By "community policing" I do not mean policing by the community. I mean the type of policing that was done in NYC over a number of years, with a high emphasis on not ignoring the minor violations, in order to enforce a standard of conduct. We may not have many officers, but this may be one of the places that they keep an eye on whenever they have the time. If an officer is frequently telling them to clean up their language, they are likely to either clean it up or take their business elsewhere... (now someone who has a better definition or timeline for "community policing" can correct my mistakes!) | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 314 Registered: 6-2003 |
Susan,sorry for my tone, it was inappropriate. I am just worried sick that the new court if not locked is going to create a host of almost intractable problems. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3348 Registered: 5-2001  |
Anyone even remotely upset by the prospect of rude, loud youths from other jurisdictions hijacking the Baird B-Ball courts, intimidating locals, or creating a host of almost intractable problems owes it to themselves (and us MOLers) to express their concerns to Andy Brady immediately. Please report back to us on your conversation with Mr. Brady, and thank you for your vigilance and public spirit. -s. BTW: If you're too busy, too lazy, too scared, too cynical, if you reside out of town, or are just guilty of venting here without any serious intent to improve things, simply tell any local kid of your acquaintance to see Andy if things get out of hand. Resolution will follow. | ||
| vermontgolfer Supporter Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 318 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hey, just let HOOPS get a group of MOLer's to play and domintate the court, then we can keep all those 'foreigners' away. Come on people, lighten up already!  | ||
| talk-it-up Citizen Username: Talkitup Post Number: 154 Registered: 3-2004 |
A while back I was told by Andy Brady that the use of the basketball court by non-residents is allowed but that he was supposed to collect a small fee from them (I think it was a couple of dollars) for using the court. I think this was also the explanation with the tennis courts for outside residents. For those that do not know, many young adults cut through the Mountain Station and the back door through West Montrose bouncing their basketball to get to Baird. There are disturbances, yelling, and I also remember a fire being set. If the younger kids could only use the court by "winning" it they would never play. They should not be restricted to supervised play. They should be able to play on their community court. It should be "kid" friendly. Maybe you should require sign-up like the tennis courts. This would also preserve the courts. Residents would have their recreation badge, non-residents would pay the fee that Andy indicated he should be collecting. Baird should be "Kid" friendly. There is a park in Orange just over the border at West Montrose I do not remember if that park has a basketball court, but maybe Orange actually is lacking a court in that location and could use one. Maybe this is something for the village to talk to its neighbor about. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 137 Registered: 4-2005  |
I use to volunteer regularly in Orange to help out the Salesians but things got totally out of control with the kids there. It was a great outlet because parents could drop of their kids (6-15 for the small gym and the older kids 16+ played in the bigger gym on the weekends) but it became almost unmanageable. A lot of fights started to break out and what began with fun times playing basketball became too much work for everyone involved. When places such as the Don Bosco Youth Center have to start limiting hours (and other places closing down) it puts more kids out on the street looking for places to play... I wish there were more community centers where kids could go inside and be supervised (especially the younger ones) but that in itself is just a job and a half for most people who volunteer their time to oversee these activities. As to the ground rules someone mentioned before, when I use to play BB it was winner kept the court for up to 3 games (even if they won all of them) then the court would go to whoever was next (you can't expect 10 year olds to challenge 18 year olds to get the court back...) that was the etiquette we followed (unfortunately for me that only meant one game...) If no one was waiting you could play as long as you wanted (but park lights shut off at 10pm so you couldn't see). | ||
| vermontgolfer Supporter Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 319 Registered: 12-2002 |
Shenna, How about inviting them all to SHU, lot's of BB courts there!  | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 139 Registered: 4-2005 |
Sounds good to me - I would love for the residents and kids to be able to use our rec. center - I don't see a problem with it whatsoever. During the summer time it's very slow in the rec. center so it makes sense. However, I know that the school does host a lot of summer camps and such for basketball and other sports. | ||
| Matt Foley Citizen Username: Mattfoley Post Number: 247 Registered: 6-2004  |
When I used the basketball court c.'82-87 things started to change here. I 100% remember a guy coming out of the community house and asking for ID (old pool badges). My buddies & I used to have to bring the badges to shoot hoops. Kids from out of town would show up and the "older guys" would stand our ground or the police would get called b/c we got "beaten" off the courts. I would imagine things have not changed all that much. B/C of Green Acres Project there is no way of denying anyone access. It was a shame then and a shame now that the kids here cannot enjoy those awesome courts without being intimidated. ps:the fireworks are a debacle and I think we should stop providing entertainment for Orange on the 4th. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 663 Registered: 3-2002 |
...then we could all go to Millburn, Chatham, Madison, whatever, and let them complain about the riff-raff from South Orange... | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 167 Registered: 10-2004 |
Umm - I cannot agree with anyone who says our kids cannot and /or do not enjoy the basketball courts. At any given time the courts were mostly empty. There is ample time for any kid to get to and enjoy the basketball courts. Generally teenagers will be the ones dominating the courts and these teenagers will most likely be your own local kids. At times there will be players coming from other areas adults and younger children who will enjoy the courts. If you happen to pick a time that the court is already being used by other players then yes sorry but you should have arrived earlier. Public courts are for the public. All of them, not just the citizens of South Orange. And Joe C. basketball players are no more likely to be members of a gang then your average highschool student. I dont recall reading about any gang violence eruptin on the Maplewood courts, Livingston courts or even the Ivy Hill courts. I would avoid making stories up to support your arguments without solid facts to support them. Basketball is one of the great social activities that allow us to celebrate our diversity by meeting people of other cultures and backgrounds to share something in common. Cagey D - no one group can dominate a court all day. After a few hours exhaustion sets in and the court is relinquished to the next conquerors. Sheena - Seton Hall should make an official policy regarding use of the rec center for non students or alumni that is not as restrictive as the current no use policy. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2005 |
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any difference between the basketball courts and the other recreational facilities in the town. Just as the pool and the tennis courts are for use of residents, so should the basketball courts be. Have sign up sheets for alloted time playing with proof of residence with the provision that you can bring guests. But sign up must be by a resident who bears the responsibility for the group. Isn't that how the tennis courts courts work? What am I missing? I believe it is unfair to residents who pay a premium for living here to open up our facilities to any and all comers, be it the recreational facilities, the schools, the parking lots, etc. Otherwise, what are we paying for? Where is the quid pro quo? | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 899 Registered: 12-2003  |
Again: GO TO THE COURTS IN QUESTION AND LOOK FOR YOURSELF. You will find them mostly empty. If they aren't empty, you'll find people there who are looking for pickup games, and anyone can play. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7295 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't think paying more in taxes than someone else entitles you to more service. |
