| Author | Message | ||
     jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2005 |
I would like to propose a new vision for the downtown..one which is predicated on South Orange becoming THE restaurant town. We are well on our way anyway, with several very good restaurants spanning a range of prices and cuisines. We can give up on trying to recruit any other types of businesses. We've got enough banks and cleaners anyway. And if the supermarket never comes, so be it. We all have found alternatives by this time. How about putting a full court development effort behind recruiting other restaurants to join those already here? Since we are recruiting residents from Hoboken to move here, what about trying to get some of those restaurants there to open another in South Orange. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 2527 Registered: 5-2001  |
JayJay...That's a GREAT idea (and one I suggested back in 2001) http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=129&post=60354#POST60354 The good news is that since that time a number of "upscale" restaurants have come to town. (Antonella's, Voro, Lot 15, Papillion etc) The bad news is that SOPAC, Supermarket and Beifus are in the same perpetual state of "Coming Soon" as 4 years ago. | ||
| marinab Citizen Username: Marinab Post Number: 147 Registered: 8-2002 |
I love that idea! I wish someone would convince Raymond's in Montclair to try his winning combination over in SO too. People line up out the door at that place. He could call it Raymond's II or Raymond's in SO. | ||
| thegoodsgt Citizen Username: Thegoodsgt Post Number: 847 Registered: 2-2002  |
I've been suggesting the same thing in the three years we've been here. People will go out of their way for good food. The Powers That Be should be marketing our community in restaurant trade magazines and magazines whose readers include entrepreneurs and restaurant investors. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7643 Registered: 1-2003  |
I think it's happening anyway. Someone here recently pointed out that restaurants slightly above middle scale are rather profitable these days in towns like these. And I also learned that the chances of success would be a heck of a lot better if it were easier to get a liquor license, but I bet that's a long, hard battle. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2005 |
It strikes me that as the IronBound section of Newark is known for Portugese restaurants, South Orange could be known for the variety of restaurants, a reflection of the diversity of the community. It would be a way of marketing the town. It would be nice if we could recruit some of the following to round out the picture: - a French bistro - a Greek restaurant - a bona fide Jewish eat-in deli - a pancake house (great for college kids too, a la the one in Princeton) - a vegetarian restaurant - a Spanish or Portugese restaurant I'd bet these would be well supported by the townspoeple. Plus they would serve as a destination in themselves, and would marry up nicely with the arts center (when and if...) | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 2529 Registered: 5-2001 |
jayjay, Yes! Add Thai and an American place like American Joe's or "The Office" and I think you have everything. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 169 Registered: 4-2005  |
If there was a 24 hour diner in S.O. - it would do some great business. The students currently go to the Maplewood Diner and there's also a few more favorites off of 280 they go to. jayjay - add a Korean restaraunt to the list (and anything that serves really good pickles...) | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 656 Registered: 4-2004 |
There is no end to the quality restaurants that could be added to our downtown area. The problem is getting someone to share any particular vision to the point of committing the money and resources to make it happen. This is a bit more difficult given the overwhelming rate of failure (80-90 percent of new restaurants fail in their first year) that these prospective entrepeneurs face. Every restaurant requires a substantial investment, and few investors are going to commit unless they sense a genuine opportuniy for success. New entries such as Lot 15 Grille, Taste of Asia and holdover Toro Loco are all rumoured to be selling. It's a hard business, and alot of patronage is needed to make a profit. As for 24-hour diners, the Village has always discouraged them for fear of the "after-hours" crowd that might be attracted. I can't say I disagree. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 128 Registered: 2-2005 |
I don't think SHU would keep a 24 hour diner afloat...I think it would make for good business, but not enough to keep a viable diner going. There is a lot of competition with other 24 hour "diners" within 10 minutes Rte 22/ Morris Av/ Eagle Rock Av/Springfield Av I think betting on the college and bar crowd is a poor business decision...SO Av is busy, but it isn't a State Highway or has on/off ramp acess like most of the local 24 hr locations. A seperate suggestion would be possibly allowing a restaurant to hold late night hours on weekends only. I don't see the issue to debate though...considering if there is any sort of ban on business hours, it apparently isn't enforced whatsoever, with several pizza shops making their own hours and barber shops staying open until the wee hours. I think I have noticed several restaurants being rented now to well past 3AM as well...This isn't a complaint, they gotta do what they have to do to keep the doors open, but what is the difference if the town allows El Greco to operate till 3am during the college year and wouldn't allow a diner to remain open an additional two hours till the 5am morning crowd? | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2005 |
The majority of the residents on campus do not have cars and therefore are unable to get to anything out of walking distance. It is not worth it to call a $10-$20 cab to drive you over to the other diners or restaurants. Then another $10-$20 to get you back home. Other 'diners' barely even get SHU business because they are too far. The potential business for a local late-night place is much greater than one would think. Considering the majority of residents also are not 21, having bars open til 2 am is great for that crowd, but not for those underage. Also, as far as a campus and its residents are concerned, late night hours would be very beneficial during the week as well to students. We have meetings and assignments to do and there are plenty of times that one needs to just get off campus. I have meetings til 10 PM or later, but I have no choices at that point. Starbucks is open til 11 and there is delivery, but for the sake of mental clarity, I prefer to just get off campus sometimes. I know Sheena can agree that sometimes the workload gets to be too much and that late night coffee or snack off campus can do the trick. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 129 Registered: 2-2005 |
If there is such a need for late night eating from campus residents...did the campus residents consider asking the school to hold later hours in the dining hall. | ||
| Sitoyan Citizen Username: Sitoyan Post Number: 79 Registered: 7-2004 |
All this talk about South Orange a restaurant town is non-sense. The local residents are snobs who would not eat at a "local" restaurant. They like to eat in "the big city". They like the more fashionable Montclair, Millburn, Morristown, and even Maplewood. We like to think that our community would support "upscale" restaurants, but there too we are full of it. "The Taste of Asia" was very successful in Montclair and our Main Street convinced them to come in South Orange. It lasted only two years. They are on their way out. Because we, the residents of South Orange didn't support them. Because we can easily sit on our big fat ••• and badmouth our businesses on MOL instead of getting out there and giving them some business. As for students eating in town forget it. As long as there is no transport for them they will eat on campus. And there is no jitney service for them because we refuse to pay one penny for it, and the university refuses to share the expense. Yet we all are amazed "how come we don't see more students downtown?" On the other hand, as long as there is no business open late (after 11), why would the students who can travel come here, when they can go next town and have a nice night out? Our town is inhospitable to businesses, and to students. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 660 Registered: 4-2004 |
I'm sorry Sitoyan, but I disagree. South Orange can be very hospitable for businesses if they provide a good meal and good service. The Reservoir and Bunny's have lasted for decades because they do things right. Specialty restaurants will have a much tougher time because they tend to draw occasional diners rather than regulars. Millburn is a wealthier community and they are more likely to dine out freely. Montclair is an anomaly; it has a huge central business district and a much greater population. It also draws from Glen Ridge (which has no significant commercial area) and West Essex towns. Montclair also has a large university, though I don't think they benefit from MSU any more than South Orange does from Seton Hall. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7699 Registered: 1-2003 |
Why don't Seton Hall students ride bicycles as so many other college students do? Or is that passé everywhere else now? | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 948 Registered: 12-2003  |
It's naive to think South Orange restaurants don't benefit from Seton Hall. College students are the dream demographic of most restrateurs. I know it's not cool to say, but the amount of disposable income funneled to restaurants by SHU students is likely huge. Yes, they may not shop as often at Lot 15 and Voro. But there always seem to be SHU students at Bunny's, Blue Moon, the bagel shop, Cluck-U (don't knock it til you've tried it), Toro Loco, Caribbean Cuisine, all of the pizza shops I'm in, Papa John's, the chinese restaurants, Texas Weiner, sushi place, Cait & Abby's, Dunkin Donuts, Coldstone, Dancing Goat, Subway, Pizza Hut, and probably a few dozen places I'm forgetting. Getting more SHU students downtown would be a huge boost to the business community. Calling SHU students lazy doesn't really get to the point -- Pizzaz wants more people to buy his pizza, he doesn't really care whether they are lazy or should be riding bicycles or not. Not saying that businesses should somehow fund their own jitney. Just saying that it's frustrating when people want to shoot down any discussion of interacting more with Seton Hall, when that interaction stands to benefit our business owners so much. Ask anyone selling anything if they'd like to be within 1 mile of 10,000 college students, and they'll say Hell Yes. | ||
| Two Sense Citizen Username: Twosense Post Number: 226 Registered: 7-2004 |
Successful suburban restaurants, beyond local coffee shops and deli's, succeed based on drawing customers from far beyond a one-mile radius -- the approximate size of South Orange Village. This requires the right mix -- as Zagat guides capture so well -- of food/cuisine, decor, service, and price. Residents and restaurants simply cannot blame South Orange residents for not supporting its restaurants. Restaurant owners ultimately must take responsibility for their own fate -- both in meeting customers' needs and in marketing their businesses. Papillon 25, Antonella's, and Voro all hit the ground running, and Toro Loco, Cafe Arugola, Bunny's, Cryan's, and Reservoir successfully have endured for many years -- not because of resident loyalty, but because their owners know what it takes to attract and satisfy customers. It clearly takes more than a village of 5,500 households to have a restaurant succeed. Montclair, Maplewood, and Millburn have had their fare share of successful and failed restaurants, including prime locations that have had three restaurants in five years. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 716 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks to Cmonty for reminding us how much business students give to the town (much of it to places that I don't go much. By the way, if Seton Hall students started riding their bikes to town more at 10 PM, it would create a safety hazard on South Orange Avenue, I think. Bikes are great on campus, but less ideal on major thoroughfares at night. I think that a shuttle would be superb, but that the University bears the majority of the responsibility for funding it. Sitoyan, at least in your case you are off base. We give a great deal of support to good South Orange restaurants, and only go into NYC to dine occasionally, given that my husband already spends enough time on the train. (our ***es would be less fat if we avoided the local eateries more  ) Yup, Taste of Asia isn't making it, but in my humble opinion it was because not enough of us found them to live up to their reputation. We gave them more tries than we would have were they anywhere else, because we really wanted them to succeed. But after at least four tries, they still didn't do it for us (no point in rehashing the issues). In any other town, we'd have written them off after the second meal. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2005 |
Two SEnse- I totally agree that its the combo of "food/cuisine, decor, service, and price" that makes the place successful or not. Take a stroll in Westfield's downtown and look at the restaurants and how they draw you in. Successful restauranteurs know how to do it. They mystery to me is why THEY have not discovered South Orange. That's maybe what Main Street should try to ascertain. As for Taste of Asia, i don't know enough about the history, but why did it leave its prior location? Was it not successful there? And how did Main Street decide that they were the establishment to recruit. And did anyone ask how the place was going to look? Seemed to me to be an inconsistency between price and ambience. Given the building and the look, probably would have done great as a down and dirty Chinese eat-in restaurant, which we could use in town. | ||
| Amie Brockway-Metcalf Citizen Username: Amie Post Number: 283 Registered: 6-2004 |
My two-year-old and I just returned from Westfield, where we enjoyed a lunch at the franchise Wild Noodles. It would be a great addition to town. (And I'm one of those "snob" local foodies who happily eats at local places.) |
