| Author | Message | ||
     Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3395 Registered: 5-2001  |
"NEWARK: SETON HALL REFUSAL OF GAY GROUP IS UPHELD Seton Hall University did not violate state law by refusing to recognize a gay and lesbian group that wanted to organize on its campus, according to a ruling by a three-judge panel of the Appellate Division of the New Jersey Superior Court. A state antidiscrimination law bars bias based on sexual orientation, but the panel found that an exemption for religious institutions applied to Seton Hall, a Roman Catholic university in South Orange. (AP)" Well, everyone in South Orange should recognize this much about our local educational partner: They're here. They fear. Get used to it. -s. BTW: On the brighter side, SHU didn't pile on institutionally in the CHS Holiday Music Lawsuit, so there's that... | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 176 Registered: 4-2005  |
Soda, In all seriousness - do not make assumptions about the school based off a starledger article. You don't know the 3 year history of this issue on campus nor the obstacles, nor what the administration offered students, or anything for that matter. If you want to learn about the topic as oppose to reading one aspect about a lawsuit feel free to PL me. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 956 Registered: 12-2003  |
Here's a longer story from the Associated Press. By JEFFREY GOLD NEWARK, N.J. (AP) -- A student's efforts to establish a gay and lesbian group at Seton Hall University, a Roman Catholic institution, suffered a setback Wednesday when a state appeals court dismissed his lawsuit. Anthony Romeo charged that the university's refusal to recognize the group violated the state Law Against Discrimination, which bars bias based on sexual orientation. A three-judge panel, however, found that the law's exemption for religiously affiliated institutions applies to Seton Hall, and that the school did not waive the exemption with its anti-discrimination policy. Romeo lawyer Marianne F. Auriemma said they had hoped the court would limit the religious exemption. ``Seton Hall is so secular in its nature, that it is hiding behind that exemption,'' Auriemma said, noting the school receives state and federal funds and is part of the NCAA. ``As a taxpayer, I find it ridiculous that they say they are a religious institution,'' she said, adding that the exemption is better applied to a seminary or parochial high school. They will consider whether to have the case heard by the state Supreme Court, since the decision ``relegates gay and lesbian students to second-class status, and that's unconscionable.'' Seton Hall spokesman Thomas White said the decision ``affirms that religious organizations are legally permitted to act in accordance with their doctrines.'' Romeo's suit, filed in March 2004 when he was a sophomore, had initially been dismissed by a lower court judge, but was later reinstated, bringing the appeal from the South Orange-based school, which is operated by the Archdiocese of Newark. In an interview last year, Romeo, of Walton, N.Y., said it was unfair for Seton Hall to permit his group to sponsor educational events but not religious services or social activities. ``Rosa Parks never sat in the middle of the bus,'' he said, in a nod to the civil rights figure. ``It's not the same treatment that any other group gets.'' Romeo submitted an application Nov. 13, 2003, for TRUTH (Trust, Respect, Unity at The Hall), listing himself and 17 others as members. The group aim was to oppose discrimination and serve as a support group for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and heterosexual students, the application said. It was denied on Dec. 18, 2003, with Laura A. Wankel, vice president for student affairs, writing, ``No organization based solely upon sexual orientation may receive formal university recognition,'' even though the Student Organization Activities Committee recommended approval. Wankel in her decision wrote that ``the church directs us to care for the human person whose fundamental identity is as a `child of God' _ not as a `heterosexual' or a `homosexual.''' She added a ``memorandum of understanding'' that would allow the group to operate on campus, but with the stipulation that the administration would have to agree to the group's name. Accepting the guidelines meant the group ``will neither seek nor expect formal recognition by the University or elsewhere,'' the memo said. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3399 Registered: 5-2001 |
QOTJ: I'm not interested in debating what is clearly a strongly-supported administration policy at your university. I just happen to disagree with it, and my post registers that opinion. I assume nothing. I have lived in this community since you were in nursery school. Please do not assume what I do or do not know. -s. BTW: If you'd like to educate me or other MOLers regarding the history of this issue on the SHU campus, please feel free to supply relevant links (or your own insights) here. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1229 Registered: 8-2002 |
odd, when I went to Boston College (some 25+ years ago) there were active gay/lesbian groups on campus. although BC is Jesuit more than Catholic ;-) /p | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 675 Registered: 4-2004 |
As a Catholic I find myself in personal disagreement with my church on many issues, including this one. That said, it is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church and I respect their right to their position. For Seton Hall University to defy that position would place them outside the auspices of the Church and in opposition to its stated doctrine. Matters of Faith can be debated to no end, whether Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist or atheistic. Just as the State has no business adopting any single religious view (though many try), it also has no place attempting to move any religious institution off of its established doctrine. This explains yesterday's ruling and why it was unanimous. The Church runs into similar quandaries involving divorce, birth control, abortion and a myriad of other issues. They try to strike a balance between non-affirmation and tolerance of those who dissent, and they often fail. The bottom line is that institutions of Faith are rarely democratic or even accepting of contrary points of view. When I choose to defy my Church, I do so knowing full well that I have done so. My hope and belief is that I will ultimately answer to a higher source than the Church itself. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7794 Registered: 1-2003  |
I don't believe the law allows church doctrine to violate the law. If you want to violate the law in order to follow doctrine, you have to take the consequences or seek special permission (as native Americans do) or work to change the law. So if SHU is violating law by blocking the group's existence -- and I don't know if they are, -- then the church doctrine doesn't make it OK or tolerable or legal. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 676 Registered: 4-2004 |
Tom- as stated in the court's decision, religious institutions are exempt by the law. Seton Hall is therefore not in violation. Also, the University did not block the group's existence, and attempted to establish a forum within their community for these students. The man who filed the lawsuit rejected the compromises because he wished to challenge the validity of Seton Hall's position. He will continue to do so, for which I commend him, and the N.J. State Supreme Court may (or may not) review this case further. | ||
| Grspring Citizen Username: Grspring Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2004 |
The university as a private religious institution can do what ever it pleases with regard to groups it allows on campus. Country Clubs from North to South have used the same philosophy to ban women and minorities from their doors. But as a tax payer in a town with a very large voting gay community, I have a right not to have my tax dollars support the activities of the university outside of campus. "The University did not block the group's existence, and attempted to establish a forum within their community for these students." The last time I head this phrase it was "separate but equal". Too bad more people never had to get on the front of a bus to pay their fare. Then get off to enter the rear door and hope the bus didn't leave before you got on. It might help you understand. There were those who recently came to the defense of Seton Hall students and their right to vote and be a part of this community. Will you now agree with the University to deny them their rights as part of their own community? The Supreme Court once ruled that "Negroes have no rights which White people had to respect". While sitting under a "In God We Trust" sign. At the same time the church and the slave masters forced it religion down the throat of the people it suppressed. Well at least they said God loved us after the whipping. Go ahead and agree with discrimination in any form you choose. And while your getting on the front of the bus look at the people you call friends and relatives sitting in the back. Sheena is your reluctance to discuss this in a public forum due to fear of reprisal? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 181 Registered: 4-2005 |
Grspring, re: "Sheena is your reluctance to discuss this in a public forum due to fear of reprisal?" Quite the contrary. I have been at the forefront of this issue for quite some time and have continuously advocated for this group. Over the past three years - I have been apart of/authoring all resolutions supporting equality for our GLBT students and 2 months ago, I signed the latest resolution dealing with a GLBT student organization entitled "SAFE". I have stood with these students in the past and I will continue to do so. Administrators, our University President, and our University's Board of Regents know exactly how i feel about this issue so I have no reluctance whatsoever. I'm always concerned with the "truth" though. What came out in the news today is not a reflection of the 3 years and everything that has happened. I will post all information later for those interested. Know that I do wholeheartedly agree with your statements in your post. Just because something is legal does not make it right. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8850 Registered: 5-2001 |
Does Seton Hall receive any state or federal funding? I am not up on the current law, but this could be an issue for them I would think. Pete mentions BC as having a different approach. I wonder how other top tier Catholic universities such as Georgetown and Notre Dame or even Fordham deal with diversity issues. One of the tough issues for religious sponsored colleges and universities is how to intergrate their belief stucture with modern life and scholarship. How can any university or college only teach or allow activities and thought that agrees with their belief structure and still educate? | ||
| Grspring Citizen Username: Grspring Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2004 |
Thanks Sheena. Oh, if I were twenty years younger. Never mind, I would still be too old for you. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1168 Registered: 3-2003 |
Grspring - Never guessed you to be that old.  When Pete said he attended BC 25+ years ago, I really felt old. My wife taught there 35+ years ago. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3400 Registered: 5-2001 |
I wonder where Sir Thomas More would come down on these issues... -s. BTW, Sheena: Your first post on this thread left me wondering whether you chose to be an apologist for the school's policy; I'm relieved to hear that you have a different position on it... | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 182 Registered: 4-2005 |
Grspring - somehow I highly doubt that  Soda - don't go getting all soft on me, I enjoy our occassional thorns | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 1765 Registered: 7-2003 |
Are there any Jewish groups at SH? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 183 Registered: 4-2005 |
No, But we do have groups such as the College Democrats and we have a student organization called "SALAAM" which programs based on the appreciation of Muslim culture (by extension Islam). We also have requests from students for an interfaith room for those of non-traditional faiths to worship (pending). I see where you're going with your question and trust that it just won't make sense no matter what. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 1766 Registered: 7-2003 |
I was just thinking that if they ban Gay groups then they should also ban Jewish groups, because I’m pretty sure the church believes in Jesus. Which I’m guessing by your response they do ban Jewish groups. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8857 Registered: 5-2001 |
It is basically a question of what Seton Hall wants to be like when it grows up. Do they want to be a Notre Dame or a Georgetown or do they want to be Catholic University, where virtually all teaching that doesn't support church doctrine is prohibited. I think this is an issue all religious affiliated colleges and universities have to deal with no matter if they are Brandeis, Yeshiva, Notre Dame, Earlham, Chicago and a ton of others. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2271 Registered: 9-2003 |
Brett: Seton Hall University’s Graduate Department of Jewish-Christian Studies offers a Master of Arts degree in Jewish-Christian Studies covering all aspects of the historical relationships between Jews and Christians, their respective values and traditions. The program serves as a model for eliminating prejudice through mutual understanding. Courses provide critical study of foundational sources in their social world contexts, tracing how these traditions developed within diverse local settings. Students examine the religious, ethical, and social issues central for understanding Christians and Jews today against the background of anti-Semitism and the Holocaust. The Jewish-Christian Studies degree and certificate programs are ideally suited for teachers in public, private, and parochial schools; education and ecumenical administrators; clergy and seminarians; as well as generalists who seek the means to explore Jewish and Christian studies for personal enrichment. Support for the educational program comes from the Sister Rose Thering Endowment, helping to combat prejudice and promote understanding by providing tuition scholarships for educators. More information can be found at academic.shu.edu/thering |
