| Author | Message | ||
     Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 4535 Registered: 10-1999  |
"How ironic that his name is in any way linked to the training of lawyers." You said it yourself, citing "his faith in the Magna Carta and the rights it bestowed upon him". That's the ideal. I guess if you had a problem with a lawyer or two, maybe they didn't live up to that ideal. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3405 Registered: 5-2001  |
Good Guess. Then again, no attorney of my personal acquaintance has ever gone to jail for their client.  -s. BTW: Thread Drift Officially Ended... | ||
| Quint Citizen Username: Shark_killer Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2005 |
PRIVATE SCHOOL, Rainbow flag boy. Deal with it! | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3409 Registered: 5-2001 |
Quint for Appellate Judge! (He's so eloquent!) -s. | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2005 |
For the sake of confirmation, it's called St. Thomas More Pre-Legal Sociey (STMPLS). They are a pretty active group and are a great resource for those interested in law...here is there site if anyone is interested. http://studentaffairs.shu.edu/prelawsociety/ | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 744 Registered: 3-2002 |
This discussion (in spite of its flames) does highlight a real issue here. As we desire to improve town-gown relations, increase connectedness, etc., how do we deal with the fact that the position of the university on issues such as this one is not aligned with the diversity and openness of much of South Orange? On the one hand, I want to recognize the right of a religious university to respect its religion. On the other hand, I'm pained to have a major institution in town that is inhospitable to gays, to choice, to contraception...Although I may have to defend Seton Hall's right to these positions, it doesn't leave me wanting to reach out to the university to give it greater connectedness (and possible influence) in the town. I'm sorry, but from my perspective the town-gown issues would be simpler without the religious "baggage". I don't know the answer, but Seton Hall's major position in this town means that I can't consider it as a purely internal issue. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3437 Registered: 5-2001 |
Susan: The truth remains that SHU's parochialism -- which poses such a problem for you, me, and others -- poses nothing of the sort for many (not even affilated with the school) in our community who, for reasons of personal faith, politics, ignorance, or fear, take stands in sync with Vatican dogma. Clearly at odds with some secular values in the larger community, they may even sometimes voice their positions in ways which tend to frustrate efforts towards community and inclusiveness. IMO, however, we must continue to engage them in the very name of that community we hope to improve. Religious differences are protected by law, and should be respected, but those of us who differ with the parochial approach taken by SHU must not allow ignorance, politics, fear, or hate-speech to dominate the discussion of these issues. -s. | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2630 Registered: 5-2001  |
Nicely said, Susan. To have such a massive institution as part of my community that does not respect my values is intolerable to me. Some of the most important issues in my life, gay rights, choice, access to birth contract are all anathma to the powers the run SHU. That they can influence South Orange is deeply disturbing. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 688 Registered: 4-2004 |
Library Lady- One of the drawbacks to cultivating the diversity that South Orange values so highly is that each of us must learn to live with others whose values are not our own. Otherwise, it isn't diversity and it isn't enlightened. There are surely many individuals in town who don't share your values or mine- should we start rounding them up for relocation? That's where it gets a bit scary... The "powers that run SHU" are the Catholic Church, which has been a presence and influence in South Orange from the beginning. So have several other organized religions, perhaps even yours. Should you register your disagreement with their policies? Absolutely, if you are so inclined. But they are here to stay and their policies are not likely to change any time soon. And if there is no room for those whose values oppose your own, then diversity is dead. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2292 Registered: 9-2003 |
Well said, Brett. | ||
| Pizzaz Citizen Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 1981 Registered: 11-2001  |
It amazes me that she has a public salaried position. She is intolerable and prejudiced to the core. Well put Brett, we are talking about diversity. | ||
| shestheone Citizen Username: Shestheone Post Number: 173 Registered: 5-2003 |
that's really uncalled for | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2631 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mr. Pizza, A. I am not posting in my position as a "public salaried employee". I am posting as NC Janow. If you have a right to post as the owner of a pizza place in town I certainly have the same right. b. My tolerance for diversity ends when it tramples on my own rights. I do not want the Catholic Church (or ANY other religious institution) to be able to tell me what to do. As long as the law of the land allows for certain behaviors and actions (abortion, birth control, etc.), I will not tolerate any susperstitous mumbo jumbo to interfere with that. This is still a secular society. c. Your personal attack on me is inapropriate to this message board. I am NOT intolerant or "prejudiced to the core" I demand an apology (tho I doubt I will get one) or a time out from the moderator for an uncalledfor personal attack (doubt I'll get that either!) | ||
| Pizzaz Citizen Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 1982 Registered: 11-2001 |
You've posted far too many insults on those who have faith as Catholics in your past postings. If I go to the archives I can find a myriad of attacks. You live in your own little world where people who don't hold your views deserve no respect. Catholics on this board demand an apology from you. Who's trampling on your rights? | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 689 Registered: 4-2004 |
Library Lady- The Catholic Church is not telling YOU anything...it is telling CATHOLICS what it's interpretations of these issues are, and it is telling institutions that exist within it's authority what they must do to uphold the doctrines of the Church. As previously stated, I oppose certain such policies personally but I understand the Church's positions and I respect it's right to have them. If your tolerance for diversity ends when "it tramples on my own rights..." then it ended before it ever began. | ||
| gotcha Citizen Username: Gotcha Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2005 |
Let's see who's trying to make this country a Theocracy, POTUS, The House and Senate and probably the Supreme Court if POTUS gets to name a few more judges. All who are inffluenced and lead by the "Religious Right".That's who's trampling on ALL our rights, not just the LibraryLadys. | ||
| singlemalt Supporter Username: Singlemalt Post Number: 1058 Registered: 12-2001  |
I disagree with many of the beliefs of the Catholic Church but many young Americans have given their lives in the name of religious freedom. Questioning their beliefs (Seton Halls) and trying to stop their traditions is not the answer. Students who decide to attend Seton Hall know they are being asked to attend a school in the traditions of the Catholic church. There are many liberal arts, private and public universities that not only embrace but encourage alternative lifestyles. I would guess it more appropriate to attend a school where you are welcomed then to try and change the traditions and beliefs of those who choose to attend Seton Hall. It is what it is. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3441 Registered: 5-2001 |
"we are talking about diversity" John: You're not talking about diversity if you support the SHU ruling which is the subject of this thread. You may talk about whatever you like, but don't attempt to pass off such EX-clusive policy as either embracing or encouraging diversity. -s. BTW: I challenge you to quote a single LibraryLady post which bashes Catholics. If you can't, you owe her an apology. | ||
| Lucy Citizen Username: Lucy Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2005 |
Unless I'm mistaken, the United States was formed by peoples who left countries where religious freedom was forbidden. It's a right for every American to practice freedom of religion. And my forefathers fought for this right. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 5073 Registered: 5-2001  |
Seton Hall has every right to practice what it believes - it is not imposing on any of us, unless you choose to go there. If there was a mosque in SOMA I wouldn't be thrilled (that's my right), but I shouldn't object to it unless they were causing harm to anyone. Wow, librarylady, I didn't realize you had such animosity towards Catholics? |
