| Author | Message | ||
     peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1239 Registered: 8-2002 |
Today I realized there is smoking allowed at the SO pool on the grassy areas. Considering those are the only shady areas -- its kind of annoying. Today there were 3 people smoking there -- at least one put out her butts in the grass and left them there. Why is smoking allowed? Doesn't make sense to me. Is there smoking allowed at Baird? In the City Hall? Pete | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 713 Registered: 5-2003 |
And why can't we have food service like what they have at the Maplewood pool? Maplewood gets lobster roll, and what do we get? Soggy fries. So not fair. | ||
| growler Citizen Username: Growler Post Number: 692 Registered: 11-2001  |
I got the cheese fries yesterday and they were pretty good. Not soggy however they did run out of hot dogs which is a no no in my book. pete - if you go over to the two small kiddie pools there is tons of shade and no smoking. I don't think that smoking is allowed and probably not being policed as is should be. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1502 Registered: 1-2004  |
Peter- I've been trying for YEARS to get smoking banned at the pool; or at least restricted to one area, like way up in the far corner of the pool toward the diving tank. But Andy refuses to do this. As long as Andy and Paul, both smokers, are in charge, smoking will not be banned. It was suggested I go before the BOT to try to change things, but nobody else wants to stand with me in support of a smoking ban. That's why we've been to the pool maybe a dozen times in the past four years. Instead we joined a pool in Morris County as out of town residents. Smoking is not allowed at this pool. If I could get others to help me with a petition to ban, or even force the smokers to stay in one area, I'd go before the BOT. It annoys me to no end when I'm enjoying a conversation with a friend, reading a book, or even playing backgammom someone comes along, dumps their stuff by me and starts smoking. More then once one of the kids have stepped on a lit butt. I'm surprised nobody has sued the town yet over a burned toe or heal. growler- Why should an adult, or parents with children Peter's age, or my nephews be forced to sit by the kiddie or baby pools to avoid smokers? Why can't we enjoy the large pool without having to breath in smoke? Smoking is GROSS! I really don't give a rat's ash about the 'rights' of smokers. Their right to smoke ends when it infringes on my right to breath! Same with people who reek of too much perfume. I can't wait for the no smoking laws to pass in New Jersey.... | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1503 Registered: 1-2004 |
Oh and in response to you question about smoking at the Community Center (Baird). It's supposed to be a smoke free building. Says so on the door -BUT Andy smokes in his office.... | ||
| SO Refugee Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 552 Registered: 2-2005  |
Smoking of cigarettes, cigars, and pipes is permitted on the pool grounds in designated areas. Smokers are responsible for disposing of butts and ashes in the ash trays and receptacles provided. Smokers are requested to be sensitive to the rights of nonsmokers who may be in their vicinity. Smoking is banned except for designated areas. If non-smokers feel that the smokers have been given prime property, maybe asking for a relocation of said area is a solution. I was there yesterday - full disclosure, I am a non-smoker - and did not notice anyone smoking nor plumes of smoke. As this is outdoors and not allowed on the full property, I don't have problems under the current conditions. BTW - Although lobster rolls weren't on the menu, the burger and fries were rather tasty. | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2625 Registered: 5-2001  |
I am a non-smoker and I also have asthma. but as long as smoking is still legal in this country, smokers have a right to smoke,especially outdoors. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1240 Registered: 8-2002 |
I disagree -- smokers can smoke around other smokers, if they choose. But -- they should not be allowed to smoke in areas where there are nonsmokers. Further, smokers do not have the right to smell up the air around me (and my kids!). And in a public place like the pool -- I find that smoking is allowed to be a complete mistake and disregard for the majority of people. Why should I have to move my chair or blanket to be in a non-smoking space? That said -- fortunately very few appear to be smokers at the pool. But by allowing it -- it opens the door to much more smoking. Any idea how many of the BOT are smokers, if any? I'd make a case to the BOT -- wonder what the chances would be? On another note -- yesterday I was also ticked by the CHAIR HOGS -- those who take 2 chairs (one for their rear, the other for their feet). Pretty inconsiderate -- especially when all chairs are taken on these busy weekends. See ya there today -- sun and water should be great! Pete | ||
| Matt Foley Citizen Username: Mattfoley Post Number: 283 Registered: 6-2004  |
Aunt- I worked at the S.O. Pool from '89-'98 I managed the pool w/Paul '97-'98, he is definately not a smoker. As far as the smoking rules go, polite enforcement & a little suggestion goes a long way. PS: I have known Andy for 30yrs. and I'm convinced he is a government experiment. The man is literally made of smooth cut fine Virginia tobacco. | ||
| max Citizen Username: Max Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2003 |
If smoking is only allowed in certain areas surely there is still plenty of place to sit or sunbathe without been subjected to smoke. If its outdoors then I think it is totally ridiculous to expect smoking to be banned. Smokers have rights too. | ||
| SO Refugee Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 556 Registered: 2-2005 |
Enjoyed another day at the pool today and smoking didn't seem to pose any problems. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1241 Registered: 8-2002 |
"Smokers have rights too." Rubbish -- nonsense -- no right to expose others to smoke. Period. The pool is a public place, no smoking should be tolerated. /p | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 2564 Registered: 5-2001  |
I HOPE you weren't outside today. That ozone'll kill you! <gasp> | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 350 Registered: 8-2004  |
just got back from a nice evening swim with the wife and baby. No smokers to be found. Very pleasant. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1509 Registered: 1-2004 |
Refugee- Where is that posted? Granted I was only at the pool maybe three times last year and not at all yet this year, I could have missed the sign. But with all the complaining I've done oever the years to both Andy and Paul, I'm surprised Andy hasn't told me smoking was now only in certain areas. (And I saw Andy a couple weeks ago). That aside -the last time I was at the pool there were a half dozen of us sitting on a blanket toward the shallow end of the pool on the side where the stepes were. We had been there about two hours with no problem; until some smokers showed up. When my nephew asked if they would please blow the smoke the other way, they just laughed at us. Not only that, they held their cigarette out behind them, toward us, and away from the children with them. I thought it was rude and inconsiderate. To top it off, they flicked their ashes on the ground. Slobs. Outside or not, it won't be long before smoking will be banned in most places in NJ, and that will include parks. BTW I don't have too much to complain about bars that allow smoking, it's expected there. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1510 Registered: 1-2004 |
Matt- My mistake then. I thought for sure Paul smoked. Must have been the manager before him. But Andy... UG! I like Andy and have found him to always be available to listen to suggestions and concerns, but I have to agree with you. I've known him since he first started working at the Community Center. Was it that long ago? Are you sure Paul never smoked? | ||
| irishprincess Citizen Username: Irishprincess Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 |
god forbid smokers can enjoy some outdoor entertainment during the hot summer days. just because you don't like something doesn't mean you will always get your way...it's called being an adult. live with it. you don't want to move your chair or blanket to a non-smoking area?smokers shouldn't have to either while outside. what if you have an odor some find offensive or your kids are snotty obnoxious brats and us adults without kids find them rude and feel you need to teach them manners. there will always be something you don't like about people around you. as for the smoking ban in nj....good luck banning smoking OUTSIDE. if you can accomplish that you should be president. i am a smoker and I smoke at the south orange pool and enjoy it and will not stop. i will respect those around me but i will not move just because one person next to me is freaking out. i'm sure you are those people who sit next to me at the bar while i'm smoking and all you do is complain about the smoke. go sit in the non-smoking section. but news flash...there is no non-smoking section in the outdoors. that's the beauty of it! don't you love it?!?!? | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1245 Registered: 8-2002 |
I can see why your screen name is princess... that kind of "I'm entitled" to act without disregard for others atitude is about as selfish as one can imagine. poison your own air -- but you have no right to do so around me or my children. /p | ||
| max Citizen Username: Max Post Number: 154 Registered: 11-2003 |
That "I'm entitled" attitude is exactly what makes you think thats ok to dictate what goes on in the outdoors. Newsflash you cant stop people from smoking outside, you dont like it then MOVE! Good luck "Aunty" with banning smoking in parks, funniest thing Ive heard in a long time P.S. Where in Ireland are you from Princess? | ||
| Quint Citizen Username: Shark_killer Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2005 |
I would rather have two men and or two women smoking a cig. together while at the pool then have two men and or two women making out OR worse together at the pool. Hey? are the fumes in traffic worse then the hemp you smoke? | ||
| SO Refugee Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 559 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm not sure I would be against two women making out at the pool.  | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2629 Registered: 5-2001 |
but you have no right to do so around me or my children Actually she does as smoking is still not against the law. Advocate and work to change the law, bring back prohibition for tobacco this time, or move. The common sense approach would be for smokers and non-smokers to respect each other. | ||
| Montrose13 Citizen Username: Montrose13 Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2004 |
Smoking, chair hogs, lobster rolls...if you have problems with any of the above I suggest you discuss them with Paul the pool manager. He always listens, is reasonable and will act. He does a great job at the pool as he has for many years. | ||
| Amie Brockway-Metcalf Citizen Username: Amie Post Number: 291 Registered: 6-2004 |
As an ex-smoker (and one of the annoying ones) AND a preggo who gets migraines at the smell of smoke, even I must admit that it's the law and smokers are allowed to partake outside. The real issue here is one of civility and politeness on both parts, as the lack thereof on this thread shows! C'mon, smokers, don't smoke around kids and clean up after yourselves. Non-smokers, you can always move if you find yourself next to a rude smoker. | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2632 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thank you Amie, that's exactly what I was trying to say. | ||
| growler Citizen Username: Growler Post Number: 693 Registered: 11-2001 |
Aunt - I was just giving a suggestion as to another place to sit where I have not seen any smokers. Sorry to upset you. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1517 Registered: 1-2004 |
'Princess' Perhaps you were the rude obnoxious slob sitting next to us that day? Sorry, if I'm already sitting there why should we have to move? Sorry, but I see no reason why nonsmokers should have to be exposed to someone else's smoke. IF I were to sit down near someone who was already there and they started to smoke, that would be a different story. I would move because they were there first. I understand full well smoking is an addiction for a large number of those who smoke. Maybe it will be a good think when the smoking in public laws are passed. Maybe it would inconvenience a lot of people wanting to break their addiction enough to do so. As for enjoying outdoor entertainment; people want to breath in the fresh air, not a nose full of stinky smoke. Being an adult is also having the respect and common curtesy to either put out your butt, or move, if you sit down next to someone who doesn't smoke. As for people with offensive odors. I mentioned people who over do it with perfume. I think that's gross too. BUT I'm not going to end up with possible the health problems one is exposed to breathing in second hand smoke. As for snotty and obnoxious kids, my nephews are far from snotty and obnoxious. Very rarely do they act up when they are with me. IF they were to act up in public and someone was being annoyed by them, they would be spoken to by me, and made to apologize and there would be consequences to pay. As for the smoking ban in NJ - Prepare yourself because it is going to happen. And it WILL include public places, such as the pool! If you read my post, I mentioned I wouldn't complain in a bar, because it's expected there. Maybe I should put your mind at ease. Chances are finding me sitting next to you in a bar are slim to none because I very rarely go to bars. When I do, I'm usually with a group of people I know, a number of whom smoke. As a matter of fact, in the last few weeks I've been to several MOL FTF where people were smoking and not once did I say anything to any of them. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1518 Registered: 1-2004 |
MHD- NoI didn't go outside yesday; except to take care of my nephew's bunnies! When the air get's like is was Sunday, I have to stay indoors with airconditioning or I have a lot of trouble breathing... | ||
| algebra2 Supporter Username: Algebra2 Post Number: 3612 Registered: 5-2001  |
Aunt -- I have to laugh. I don't think you drink but the three times we have met have been .... in a bar! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1519 Registered: 1-2004 |
Algebra- Yep I was at the MOL FTF's in bars. But I didn't complain about the smoking because it's expected there. LOL 'Princess' made the comment I'd go to a bar and complain about smokers. I expect people to smoke in a bar, which is why I very rarely go to them. And you're right, I don't drink alcohol. I think the point, or at least MY point is, being missed. I am not denying smokers can smoke if they want to. What annoys me is when I'm already sitting somewhere and have been for several hours someone comes along, plops themself down within inches of me and starts to smoke. Why should I, my friends and family be the ones to move? We were there first. As I thought I said in another post, if I sat down next to people who were there before me and they started to smoke, I wouldn't say anything, I would just move. They were there first, so I would do the right thing by moving. It's not all smokers who are rude and obnoxious. And not all smokers flick their ashes on the ground. It's the few that give the rest a bad rap. And like it or not, NJ will become one of the states that ban smoking in public places, including parks!  | ||
| Nicole Troy Citizen Username: Lucy123 Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 |
auntie: I think you can wait a long time for nj to be non-smoking...but that is just my opinion. auntie...forgive me if i'm wrong, but you said you went to a bar with smoking friends and said nothing. so it's safe to say you don't have a problem with being around smoking when YOU choose to be around it. but if someone subjects you to it without your consent it's wrong???? such as in a public outdoor facility where you have paid your $15 just as i have paid my $15. if you are willing to go to a bar and sit amongst us smokers then how dare you complain in a public place? why is it ok for smokers to smoke around you in a bar but not at the pool? are your lungs more protected at the bar? my fiance can't stand kids and wishes there was an adult section at the SO pool. but as i say to him and i will say to you...it is only 15 BUCKS!!!!!!!! go to maplewood and west orange and pay 400 bucks and then you can have the right to complain about anything. if you are only paying $15 you really have no right to complain about any aspect of the pool. be happy it is what it is and suck it up and deal. i know for a fact that princess was not the one smoking at the pool on said day because i was there and she was not and the only people i saw smoking on the premises were SO pool lifeguards. i am a smoker and i smoke at the SO pool. i am not a rude smoker and i would never blow smoke in the direction of children or anything of that nature. however, how close is too close to sit to you to be considered a non-smoking area and too rude to smoke near you? 10 feet...15 feet? i'm just curious as a smoker...but i assume you will say 500 feet. | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2005 |
"...but if someone subjects you to it without your consent it's wrong????" ^^^take that quote out of the context of public smoking and apply it to anything else... so you seriously think it is OK to violate someone like that? wow. I think it is reasonable to say that if someone is harming me in any way and it is against my will, that it IS wrong. maybe that is something the state can take into consideration when discussing legislation on smoking. I think that JTA (and everyone else for that matter) should have some reasonable rights when it comes to their own health (and that of their children). I choose to do things that are beneficial to my health, as do most people. JTA chooses to go to a pool, not to smoke. If people are being noisy during a movie, they are asked to leave because they are a disturbance to others in the theater. I understand that if someone is a few yards away, you cannot detect their smoke while outside. But when someone comes right next to you, and literally inflicts smoke into your personal space, that is a disturbance as well. Since there is no smoking ban in public outdoor areas, I just don't see why there isn't a simple level of respect for the health of others who choose to value their bodies. | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2005 |
smokers have every RIGHT (a word brought up pretty often in this topic) to smoke outside, in open spaces and the like- last time I checked, it is possible for people who do not like smoke to get up and move away if someone is bothering you. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 1144 Registered: 5-2004  |
(please exuse my language below) Nicole/Lucy, By your logic, it would be ok for me to come by your towel, take a dump next to it, and leave it there for you. After all, it's only $15, and you could always move. Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to a smoking section of the pool. But youe logic is simply ridiculous. You paid the same $15 as me. Why do you get the right to do what you want, but I can't do what I want? Why don't you go and build a pool in your backyard? Then you can smoke all you want. Amie had it right, but civility is something we seems to have lost as a society. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 203 Registered: 4-2005  |
Okay MOLers, here goes... I'm a smoker (promise I'm going to quit after law school... it's all the stress) ANYWAYS - the most basic thing to accept as a smoker is that not everyone smokes and the worse thing you can do as an individual is inflict your nasty habit (and my nasty habit) on other people. Realistically - it is the "outdoors" so let's not act like it's a crowded bar because it's not. A few yards will do the trick of keeping the nasty smell and odor away from people who do not appreciate it. For those who do not appreciate the smoke... smokers should be reasonable to your request. If you ask the person to the left or right of you "excuses me sir/madam, your smoke is bothering me a little bit, could you possible scoot a little bit over?" Most responses will be "sure, I'm sorry about that, I didn't realize it was bothering you". Perty darn simple... I don't expect non-smokers to go into a "smoking section" and protest against 2nd hand smoke the same way I don't expect smokers to take advantage of their "right" and blow it where it doesn't belong... Gosh - what happened to the good ole' days with basic common courtesy. When Kristen is in my car - she expects 2nd hand smoke... if she doesn't like it, she can use her own vehicle or jump into moving traffic and be a Martyr. When I'm in Kristens car, I can either ask politely or hang off the back and breathe in the exhaust to satisfy my craving... that's all  | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1522 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hey Sheena- I'll use you as an example, if you don't mind. When you came to my nephew's baseball games and lit up, at least you had the consideration to move away from the kids and other people sitting on the bleechers. When I came over to talk to you, at least you had the decency to blow the smoke the other way. Correct? And that was without me saying anything. Geesh, that's all anyone is asking for, some common consideration. (I think I'll address the rest of this thread tomorrow) BTW I spoke with T tonight. The little one is okay... Oh, and I can just picture poor Kristen waving and flapping in the wind like a flag on the back of your car!  | ||
| Minimalist Citizen Username: Minimalist Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2004  |
hey so um, i'm not a smoker and i don't particularly like it, but if you're outside and someone's smoking 10 feet away from you, you're not being harmed, even if you can smell it. all of the tobacco legislation is nothing more than a government power grab / extortion scheme. if it's TRULY bad for other people, why not ban it outright? oh right, they're too dependent on the revenue stream they're getting from a LEGAL industry. see, cigarettes are legal. lots of other drugs have been banned outright or are only available with a doctor's prescription. why not nicotine/cigarettes? because it's a better deal for the government to be able to have that extra line item in the budget. even better is that they actually SUBSIDIZE TOBACCO GROWERS. the government's decision to sue companies is ridiculous since there's a 70+ year-old federally funded tobacco subsidy program. since the great depression the government has offered price supports on tobacco, guaranteeing farmers crop prices if their harvest does not meet a set price at auction. Tobacco farmers also have a $34 million crop-insurance program to protect growers from risks such as seasonal and cyclical price changes due to weather, production, and use variations. People really need to start paying attention to all of this. If everyone knew why a gallon of milk is more expensive than a gallon of gas they'd probably be pissed off. And it goes on and on. Only most people don't care, they just don't want to smell stinky smoke outside. and they trust their government way too much. personally, i'd rather move at the pool than give any additional power to the government. | ||
| Minimalist Citizen Username: Minimalist Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2004 |
oh wow, check it out, my brain has some old info. looks like last year the republicans decided to end the supports (10 year phaseout). which means lots of large agribusinesses getting lots of cash. this is from Environmental Working Group ( http://www.ewg.org/farm/tobaccobuyout.php?page=analysis ) site: June 16, 2005 - Last October, President Bush signed a law ending price supports for American tobacco farmers and launching a 10-year phase out of the decades-old subsidy program. As part of our Agricultural Subsidy Database, Environmental Working Group (EWG) analyzed the House version of the 2004 tobacco buyout bill, estimating how much which growers in which states would receive of the roughly $10 million in taxpayer money slated for the program. We have now removed the tobacco buyout report and analysis from our Web site because the buyout program the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is implementing differs from the program we analyzed. EWG has a Freedom of Information Act request pending with USDA requesting the names of individuals and companies receiving payments during the first year of the tobacco buyout program, and how money much each receives. When that data is available, we will produce a new report and post it here. | ||
| Minimalist Citizen Username: Minimalist Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2004 |
topic drift and here's why milk and cheese are so expensive: http://www.ewg.org/farm/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=dairy only $891 million in dairy subsidies in 2003! plus, pssst, the states also regulate the price of milk and it's illegal to sell above or below a certain threshold. which is why you never see loss-leader milk promotions at your local grocery. why, you ask, is he going on and on about milk? my point is, this is the type of stuff that happens when you ask daddy yankee to take care of everything. so be careful what you wish for. and for god's sake, just ask the guy to put out his cigarette or even move before you empower our already overextended government to get their hands in even more crap. plus, to take this in another direction, do you think that a ban on smoking in parks will be enforced in an across-the-board manner? or do you think that this might be exactly the type of bad law that has a high likelyhood to be another one of those thousands of "soft" laws, that lead to profiling? that's what happens with rarely-enforced laws, they get trotted out and used against people that aren't liked for one reason or the other. we have too many bad laws now, the last thing we need is a ban on smoking in parks. no offense. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 2293 Registered: 5-2001 |
Why not just have a smoking section like in restaurants, etc.? Non-smokers could then confidently sit elsewhere and not have to worry about moving later and smokers wouldn't have to worry about whether they were bothering someone. |
