| Author | Message | ||
     Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6910 Registered: 4-1997  |
Done | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 1834 Registered: 7-2003 |
Wow that was quick. Dave I would like a million dollars. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 831 Registered: 3-2002 |
Mayor, we were turned down (not by Voro) because my spouse wore leather tennis shoes in a major downpour, rather than drench his good shoes. We've only been back once. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1791 Registered: 1-2004  |
Brett (Bmalibashksa) Unles you've eaten at Voro's twice between Firday and Sunday, that's twice within the last three days, nobody 'stole' from you. Dave's post says he started the new policy this past Friday. I think instead of attacking Dave and telling him we won't be back, we should give him credit for being willing to discuss the situation with the MOL community. Maybe Dave should hire a bouncer. I think people would then think twice of walking out without paying. If a 15% service charge is going to be added to the checks after 10pm, this should be clearly stated before someone enters the establishment. Maybe have a sign on the door stating the policy, and a two sentence explanation. Another suggestion for Dave. Ask the owners of Bunnys, Cryans, and the Resorviour, what they do to prevent the problems you're seeing. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1792 Registered: 1-2004 |
Dave- Might as well delete my post too; now that Brett's is gone... | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 1795 Registered: 1-2004 |
Mary- In you post around 8pm you say someone should call Voro's to get their side of the story; yet in your earlier post around 10am you say they have a nerve and that you're eaten there and the service isn't worth a 20% tip... Doesn't make sense; does it? | ||
| mwoodwalk Citizen Username: Mwoodwalk Post Number: 373 Registered: 9-2001 |
I guess it's a good thing that my wife and I are usually long gone from local establishments by 10pm (usually to a movie, or occassionally to relieve the sitter). Definitely agree w/ those who've said that this should be 15%, if there's going to be something at all. The point made by Two Sense re: this policy essentially removing the incentive for extraordinary service is a good one, (i.e., with a 20% tip guaranteed, a server is really incentivized to give only the most basic service---enough so that he/she is not fired, I would guess). However, I have to say my gut reaction to this policy is the same as another person who posted here who, like me, gets VERY angry when establishments presume their customers are criminals/bad customers before they've ever walked in the door. This just shows a basic lack of trust which I don't appreciate---and while it makes me mad at the people who caused the policy to be put in effect in the first place, I have little recourse w/ respect to those individuals. That is, I can--and usually do--choose to go establishments that presumes I'll tip/behave correctly (heck, my wife and I start with an ASSUMPTION of 20%, so you've really gotta blow it to not get that much with us). We liked VORO, but I'll certainly think twice before suggesting we go there again. All that said, it is certainly admirable for David to come on this forum and attempt to justify his views. Many in his position would not do the same. On a final note, I have to express my admiration for David's obvious skills of persuasion and advocacy, which are perhaps related to his rumored training in the legal profession. Assuming that rumor is true, it's good to see that one's legal skills can be brought to bear in a profession that provides as worthwhile a product as VORO does. Perhaps I put my own JD to the wrong use. Maybe I should get into the restaurant biz. | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 50 Registered: 5-2005  |
How about 18% gratuity? A happy medium is nice sometimes  Also, someone pointed out the difference between 15 and 20% --- does the extra 2 or 3 dollars really kill you if you are eating out at a nice place anyway? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 283 Registered: 4-2005  |
David, Though I don't necessarily agree with what you've done - I applaud you for looking out for your employees. It must be great to have a boss like you. I suggest reaching out to the other restaurants and seeing what they've done (I believe someone mentioned that). I'm sure you're not an exception. On a sidenote, it makes me sick that some people don't tip the way that they should and that this is even an issue in a place like South Orange. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 1835 Registered: 7-2003 |
JTA, Yes I was there on Friday, and the time on my Receipt says 11:39. Although I’m still annoyed about the 50% tip, I figure it isn’t constructive to complain on MOL. I will call or go to Voro and discuss it with them. I will also point out the dishonest waitress that I’m sure didn’t feel that she earned a %50 tip. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 9020 Registered: 5-2001 |
I don't have a problem with David's solution, although it is, obviously, ticking off the over sensitive. I actually prefer the French system to be honest. Add a 15% service charge and let customers tip above that amount if they feel they received extraordinary service. Most cases were service is slow is the fault of the restaurant, not the server, or at least that has been my experience 90 plus percent of the time. I think Voro should add 15% and instruct his wait staff and bartenders to inform customers of the policy and why when they put their fanny in the seat. | ||
| sullymw Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 727 Registered: 5-2001  |
What is the exact policy? After 10pm, only Fri-Sun? It's hard to believe that people with enough money to eat at Voro would not have the decency to tip their server appropriately, but I have heard this same lament from waiter/waitress friends over the years. That being said, I think that the policy should be verbalized to each customer/group. It should also be 15%, since that is the standard, minimum tip. People will be offended to pay 20% if that is not their norm or if their service was poor. Paying the minimum should not upset too many people. If the service is really poor the customer should have the right to negotiate the tip with the manager. Also, somewhere on the menu (possibly an insert since the policy is only in effect at certain times) the policy should be repeated with a note about tipping more if the service justifies it. | ||
| noracoombs Citizen Username: Noracoombs Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think the number of people in a party should be a factor as well. At most restaurants I frequent, it's fairly standard to see an 18 percent service charge on the bill for parties of 5-6 or more. I have no problem with that. Also, if you really feel the service charge was not earned, speak to the manager--from his posts in this thread, it sounds like David would be more than willing to listen to any customer who experienced a problem. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 3618 Registered: 3-2002 |
parties of a certain size should and usually do have service included...18% is the number Ive seen. Also, from what I read, the 20% isnt being added just to table charges, but to bar charges it seems. Bartenders would love an automatic 20%. Getting stiffed is unfortunately part of the territory...over time, it probably evens out..the times a bartender gets stiffed and the times they get the ridiculously generous tip. I would guess too that although bartenders get a bigger tip when people eat at the bar because the check is higher, on average, they get less of a tip than a table would for the same check amount. A couple of things that seem clear...happening new joints attract all sorts of folks, including jerks...alcohol brings out the jerk in some people (or heightens it in cases where a person is already quite clearly a jerk)...therefore, happening new joints serving alcohol will have their fair share of jerks and the issues that come along with it...especially later in the evening when the likelihood of greater alcohol consumption exists. An establishment located in any town may attract jerks from that town, but if its happening, Im sure its attracting jerks (and reasonably nice folks) from different places. Create an atmosphere with exclusivities and rules like 20% service charges on bar tabs after 10PM and youre going to attract more jerks, not fewer...and lose a reasonable steady cash-flow providing part of your customer base in the meantime. Then when the folks who only go there because its a happening place start going to the Next Happening Place, theres a big hole to fill. | ||
| mary brenner Citizen Username: Marybrenner Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2005 |
just the aunt this is what i said-I have eaten there and the service is OK not 20% ok I also said they have a lot of nerve adding 20%. I still say 20% is a huge tip to be added. I have no problem with a 15% tip added to the bill. But for a restaurant to add 20% then the service would have to be perfect. I always leave atleast 15% and if the service is great I leave much more. If I am not pleased with the service I would normally tell the manager on my way out. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1095 Registered: 12-2003  |
"Re: #1, eliminating the policy of adding a service charge is something that I would gladly consider as long as I have something in its place that will adequately address the issue." You could put in its place the same thing almost every restaurant I've ever eaten at puts in its place: Well trained wait staff who go above and beyond to make sure customers are happy. I feel bad that some of your servers have been stiffed. If it is a prevalent problem, however, you need to be looking at other causes -- even investigating the possibility that there really was something in the service that prompted the action. If servers are getting stiffed multiple times a night -- or even consistently once a night -- at a place like Voro, I wouldn't assume local jackasses are the problem. Yes, the anecdotes you shared with us sound extreme. I've just never heard of anything like that happening so consistently in a restaurant before. And again, I would encourage you to do some more math and figure out how much this is really costing you. Even if you have to supplement the wait staff's pay out of your own pocket on occasion, is it really worth turning off some of your customers this way? | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 |
Here we are in a world of high-tech, including "spell check," yet numerous posters ignore all rules of grammar, diction and spelling. Is it asking too much to proof read before posting? How lazy can one be not to take the time to correct "typos"? When I see a post with run-on sentences, misspelled words (i.e. "warren" instead of "warrant") and the like, I conclude that the writer is not a clear thinker and I place very little value on these posts. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 592 Registered: 10-2004 |
David DBK, I think you left off one option that I brought up. Have a more expensive menu for late night (just make it approximately 10% more than normal price). And YOU DO THE MATH and pay out your servers from the additional money. Most people will still leave their usual 15-20% so the servers can REALLY make out like bandits. This way your not offending any of your diners and you are still watching out for your wait staff. Some restaurants in the city offer a different late night menu (French Roast on 6th Avenue and 12ths street comes to mind) where the prices are different, so there definitely is precadent for something of this nature. I ALSO WANT TO APPLAUD YOU: You are a great boss that watches out for their employees. I wish every businessman cared as much as you. But, as you can see from these posts, sometimes good intentions do go awry. Also I think that you are also forgetting that NOT EVERYONE who goes to your restaurant reads MOL (as much as this saddens Dave and Jamie, I'm sure). So A LOT of people don't understand the rationale of your new policy. Look how much outrage and confusion it has caused this small online population. As I stated earlier, I think most people would be TOTALLY cool with paying a small amount (in my proposed example just 10%) of their bill extra just for the ability to get fine dining late night, since this is literally unheard of in our area (much to my dismay). | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1097 Registered: 12-2003 |
Elaine: I assure you I am not a clear thinker. Though I do have a remarkable command of the English language. I credit this apparent disparity to the good folks at Johnnie Walker Red. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 593 Registered: 10-2004 |
Elaine, PUH LEEEEZE!!!! I would like to suggest that you NEVER EVER EVER read one of my posts. Wendyn, you shouldn't have deleted your post. :-) | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 834 Registered: 3-2002 |
Elaine, Up to post 5 and already yelling at the regulars for their posting styles? As I said in another thread (the Pizzaz thread), I have little patience with newbies who join the boards mainly to complain and name call. I generally assume that they are mean-spirited or driven by single agendas. I hope that you are neither of these, and encourage you to become a member of our community, rather than a critic. Boards are not the same as business letters, and most of us don't expect them to be. Yes, I ignore some of the worst writers, but I don't chide them in public. (and if MOL has a spell check function, I haven't found it yet!) | ||
| eliz Supporter Username: Eliz Post Number: 1141 Registered: 5-2001 |
I really don't like a mandatory 20% tip. I was at Voro midweek last week with a few friends for drinks. The place was hopping - bar and restaurant full - we looked around for a place to sit, no one greeted us or offered help in finding a spot. This was not for lack of staff - they were busy chit chatting amongst themselves. After a first round we couldn't get service - had to flag someone down - ordered 2 drinks - only one arrived. It was impossible to get waitstaff to make eye contact and I ended up going to the bar. I still ended up giving 20% tip - however if that tip had been mandatory I would have been really steamed. It would go from being my choice of being a sucker to you enforcing it. I also would never want the bother of calling over the management and having to go through the a recounting of bad service to get back a few dollars - I would just leave unhappy. I emphatically agree that if you continue to have a mandatory service charge you have to TELL people when they sit down. The onus is on you - not your clients. And it shouldn't be more than 15% - people then still have some control to add on - although I think most people won't. The place was full of very expensively dressed, good looking people drinking champagne and martinis. I don't think they were getting any better service than us. Although the behaviour mentioned by David is inexcusable I have a feeling the stiffing on tips may have something to do with the service. I also want it noted that we ate at Voro a few weeks ago and had excellent service in the dining room. My experience was not a negative one, just minorly irritating and I wouldn't even bring it up except to make a point in this discussion. I will happily return to Voro, I love having a cool, sophisticated place to have a drink out. | ||
| composerjohn Citizen Username: Composerjohn Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2004  |
Elaine - I dont no what your talkin about - my grammer and speling be fine.  | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 70 Registered: 2-2003 |
Monty-- A clear thinker would be preventing an ulcer by going for Johnnie Walker Gold or Blue.  Back to the topic, it seems that there is ample room for compromise. The difference between 15%, 18% and 20% is more psychological than monetary, but that doesn't mean it's not "real". (Think of the gas station that charges you $2.399 per gallon rather than $2.40.) I would be surprised if adding 20% does more good than harm, but David and Darcy know their numbers better than I do. My gut feeling, totally uninformed, is that 15% will not ruffle feathers, and that the number of folks who throw another buck or two or ten on top, will outnumber those who would have tipped more but scale down to 15% because it is included. We will continue to enjoy Voro, during our usual pre-10PM time. We trust we will continue to receive excellent service as we have in the past and will thank our waitstaff accordingly. | ||
| Deacon Blues Citizen Username: Deacon_blues Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2003 |
Elaine, with all due respect, according to Webster's Dictionary, proofread is one word, not two. | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2004 |
Susan 1014: You prove my point! Apparently you conclude that I was "yelling" on a board that is akin to a silent screen because you don't like the message (or the messenger). Not clear thinking on your part! Additionally, you conclude that my comments constitute "name calling" and are "mean-spirited," based upon no evidence of either. You "encourage" me to become a "member of the community." What community are you referring to? The illiterati? I find your inference that there is a social pecking order on this board to be somewhat snobbish. In other words, a person with only 5 posts does not have the same status as someone with 834 posts? | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 173 Registered: 2-2005 |
Why not just advise patrons that a service charge was added when providing the check? | ||
| Deacon Blues Citizen Username: Deacon_blues Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2003 |
Elaine, once again with all due respect, I believe that Susan 1014 made an "implication" rather than an "inference". The one that makes the statement implies whereas the one who reads into the statement infers. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 72 Registered: 2-2003 |
Susan1014, For years we have been hoping that esteemed residents like Elaine will see fit to share their opinions here. I hear what you say, but there are probably better ways to state your case, that would make Elaine et al more likely to share their thoughts in the future. Elaine, I have enjoyed your posts to date regarding your wonderful daughter Meredith, and commenting on the New London eminent domain decision. I read Susan1014's post to state that she hoped that you were neither mean-spirited nor a name caller. I trust neither you nor she are those! | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 835 Registered: 3-2002 |
Eliane, I infer yelling by the tone, the words used, and the number of exclamation points (in your latest note). I consider the word "lazy" to be name calling. I used the word "mean-spirited" in reference to another thread, and voiced the hope that it it did not include you. I'm attempting to give you the benefit of the doubt due a long-term valued member of our physical community, especially one who chooses to post under her own name. I do feel that a person with 5 posts who uses nearly all of them to complain is not as much a member of the MOL community as someone who is here answering questions in "please help" and participating in sometimes intelligent debate on issues of interest to many of us. Content and manners both matter. Happy to have you here, and looking forward to hearing your opinions on things other than typing skills. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 284 Registered: 4-2005 |
Pssssssst... Susan You misspelled Elaine's name | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 837 Registered: 3-2002 |
Yup, life is too short for perfect typing, I'm afraid. Sorry for the typo Elaine. | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2005  |
While cruising Vose Avenue on my Spectral Vincent Black Shadow very early a few mornings ago (I must admit to occasional purile curiosity regarding the relative "hotness", "coolness", "Oracle-Friendliness", or "filthiness" of certain of your local establishments, resulting in covert late-night forays back to my pre-Boca haunts), I discretely observed a number of rather nubile young ladies quietly exiting the building once inhabited by the unlamented "Giorgio's". I devined that these were not customers, but rather, employees on their way to wherever such cunningly pneumatic mortals may hie after a night's labors. Today, while perusing one of my personal favorite Internet destinations ( http://waiterrant.blogspot.com/ ), I was reminded of that poignant sight, and present the posting in question here for your drifting attentions: "Thursday, July 14, 2005 Because I'm Pretty? A while back we had a waitress I'll call Sue. Initially she seemed like a good worker, but, after a few weeks, her true work ethic became glaringly apparent. Unwilling to work her way up the totem pole, she felt she was entitled to the best shifts, always came late, did minimal side work, and somehow managed to leave before everyone else. But when Sue was on the floor she made a bundle in tips. Why? Sue was twenty-two and drop dead gorgeous. I'm not talking run of the mill cute. Sue was Playboy Bunny/pornstar/supermodel amazing looking. Her sex appeal was a living breathing palpable force. Ernesto, one of the sous chefs, turned into a quivering lump of guacamole whenever she entered the kitchen. Sue could transform grown men into eager to please little boys and subdue women into awestruck silence. Well aware of her "assets," Sue used them to the utmost. One day during the summer, at the start of the shift, Sue comes up to me. "Can I leave early tonight?" "Why?" I ask warily. "Because I'm going to the shore with (Insert rich guys name here) and he wants to get there by 10pm," Sue explains. "We're busy tonight. I'll probably need you," I say. "But he really wants to pick me up early." "Good for him," I snort. "Please," Sue pouts. "We'll see." Sue puts her purse on the table. "But I've already packed my bag," she says with a mischievous smile. "You put all your stuff in that thing?" I ask in amazement. Sue reaches into her bag and pulls out an electric blue bikini, a slinky one piece miniskirt, a thong, and a pair of high heels. "You see I'm all ready to go," she whispers slyly. Goddamn. This girl packed all her stuff into a small purse. I'm not immune to Sue's charms. The thought of her in that bikini gets my mind racing. But then again that's exactly the effect she was going for. "Talk to me later," I say excusing myself. I need a cold shower. The night is, of course, crazy busy. Sue works the floor and makes a ton of cash. Around nine o'clock she comes up to me again. "My boyfriend's outside. Can you finish up my last table so I can go?" I look out the window. Her "boyfriend" is in his forties and drives a Porsche. I glance at my watch. Truth be told, the other waiters are hungry for cash and wouldn't mind picking up her slack. I have no reason to keep her here. "What's going on with your last table?" I ask. "Oh it's a bunch of guys. They're almost finished." Sue says. "Ok you can go." Sue happily runs downstairs to change. I go over to the POS computer. The check on Sue's last table is $300. I transfer it to my number. When Sue returns she's in her miniskirt and high heels. The effect is stunning. "Well have a nice time," I say appreciatively. "Thanks," she replies, "You can give me that table's tip the next time I see you." ?????????? "I'm sorry what did you say?" I ask dumbfounded. "You can give me the tip from those guys on Monday." she clarifies. "Uh – no." "What?" Sue stammers in disbelief. "If you leave early the tip's mine," I tell her. "But those guys are gonna leave me a big tip." Sue protests. "Thanks for the money," I reply, "Appreciate it." "You can't do that," Sue exclaims. "Nothing in this world's free darling." "But……" I hold out my hands like a scale and weigh out her options. "Boyfriend or money?" I tease. Sue's face flushes a deep red. "Money or boyfriend? I say moving my hands up and down. I start to hum the tune from Jeopardy. I know, I know – I can be a real prick sometimes. The boyfriend impatiently raps on the window and points at his watch. Sue pulls on her lower lip. Looking at me seductively she says, "You're just kidding. I know you'll give me the tip." I cross my arms and stare into her big blue eyes. "Why on earth should I let you leave early and still give you the tip from that table?" I ask. Sue thinks about that for a moment. She's struggles to find an answer. Finally she says, "Because I'm pretty?" I can hear Betty Friedan rolling in her grave. I laugh out loud. "You've got to be shitting me." Sue's face hardens into a brittle mask. Suddenly she's not pretty anymore. "I'll tell Fluvio you're stealing my tips," she hisses. "Fluvio will give me your tip himself," I shoot back. 'That's not fair," she yelps. "Life's not fair babe." "And I thought you were a nice guy," she says. "You shouldn't confuse being a nice with being a tool." "I can't believe your taking my money," she stammers. "Sue, to be honest, I'm tired of your ••••••••," I say, "and your social life is your problem." Sue storms out. I finish Sue's table. The guys leave her, or rather me, $100. "Make sure the girl gets that," one of the men burbles. "But of course sir," I say slipping the C Note into my pocket. After the work the staff pile into a bar for drinks. Thanks to Sue's largesse the drinks are on her. I explain to Fluvio what happened. "If she asks me for that tip she's in for big surprise," he says. "She's cute but she's a pain in the •••," I say sipping my beer. "She's never happy with her schedule," Fluvio ruminates. "Since she's so busy at night why don't you assign her to lunch shifts?" I ask. Fluvio smiles. Lunch shifts are a waiter's death sentence. "Permanently," I add. "I think I will" Fluvio agrees. We toast each other. Sue quit the next week. Ernesto was miserable. Whether you're a boy or a girl – looks can only take you so far. And I am not a tool." I realize that this has nothing whatever to do with the subject of this thread. It simply represents an attempt by a semi-retired supernatural entity on a fixed income to recall a pleasureable moment recently spent in the locale of his former residence. And perhaps to congratulate the proprietor of that interesting-looking restaurant for his/her courage and taste in employing such clearly other-worldly beauties in a community which scarcely appreciates or deserves them. Go in peace. --The Oracle of MOL | ||
| Two Sense Citizen Username: Twosense Post Number: 353 Registered: 7-2004 |
David, you're to be commended for seeking public input on your new, seemingly controversial policy. MOL is a limited universe, but probably better than flying blind. Unfortunately, penalizing everyone for the sins of a few always is problematic in business. Retailers don't strip search every shopper, because some shoplift; banks don't limit everyone's credit lines, because some customers have problems paying their bills; and, restaurants shouldn't impose 20% tips on every customer, because a few stiff their waitress. Shoplifting, credit losses, and not being tipped are, as the say, the cost of doing business. Having said this, if you can isolate the situations where your staff experiences this problem, you should attempt to root it out with laser precision to avoid alienating your more civilized clientele. For example, while you didn't mention it, to what extent is this problem tied to patrons lounging for extended periods of time late on weekends, when there's less demand for their seats? Economists posit that tipping in restaurants stems directly from owners expecting customers to effectively "manage" their staff by shifting the burden of wage decisions to customers -- insteading of incorporating the cost of hands-on management and competitive salaries into food/beverage prices. Since this scheme obviously has withstood the test of time, Americans must like it; otherwise, "service included" restaurants would exist. In response to your contemplated solutions, I recommend that you consider a few measures. First, see if you can program your POS system to display the equivalent of a 15%, 17.5%, and 20% tip on the bottom of your checks. I've seen this, and believe it helps (mathematically challenged) customers and maybe assists more frugal ones. Second, impose a 15% gratuity for late night, weekend table service in your bar and lounge (see alternative below); and, clearly note it on the menu, table, and check. Third, consider imposing a $5 cover charge for late night weekends in your upstairs lounge, instead of a mandatory tip; if it's a special experience, this should meet little resistance, and, if given to your servers would satisfy their needs. Fourth, educate your waitstaff to understand that they're to deliver excellent service to everyone, expect a certain level of undertipping (just as they do overtipping), and consider the totality of their tips for the evening. While it's surely unnerving to be stiffed on a $200 check, I wonder how often they receive well over 15%; and, I wonder how often they receive well over 15% on an expensive bottle of wine, for which they expended very little effort (I never really understood why a waiter/ress profits from my decision to order a $100 bottle, instead of a $25 bottle). Fifth, instruct every waiter/ress and bartender to NEVER question the tip they receive; if they have an issue, they should ask a manager to intercede on their behalf. This is the only way that you'll be able to determine the root cause of the problem -- be it your server or your patron. And, if it's the patron, perhaps management can more gracefully say, "I'm sorry, but your not welcome here." Ultimately, this comes down to who you consider to be your target market. I posted earlier that I referred six relatives to Voro -- the kind of folks who eat out probably 4-5 nights a week and spare no expense. And, they met other friends there. To a person, they complained that they would not return because of the crowd and the noise. And, they used the term "singles meat market" more than once. So, in the final analysis, you have decide who you want to attract and serve. P.S. Your POS system should give you great insights into who is delivering good service (at least for credit card sales); over time, in the same setting, tipping levels across servers will reveal who is delivering consistently good service. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 653 Registered: 12-2003 |
It's hard to believe that people with enough money to eat at Voro would not have the decency to tip their server appropriately Why is that so hard to believe? Class and generosity have no corrolation to bank balance, in my experience. As far as the topic at hand, I always tip servers above 15%, but the plain truth is tipping is customary, not mandatory. If you want to ensure your waitstaff makes enough money, raise their salaries, don't abandon them to the whims of your clientele, financially comfortable as they may be. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6917 Registered: 4-1997 |
Oracle, An interesting twist to this is that I emailed a link to this thread to Waiter Rant last night. | ||
| Nonymous Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 8407 Registered: 1-2003  |
Madden 11, if you don't tip, you are saying, quite directly, that the server didn't earn his/her pay. They are paid "restaurant minimum wage" which is well below the very low regular minimum wage. They are taxed on projected tips! That's right. Waiters are sometimes taxed on tips they don't get. So there is a firm assumption that they be tipped. There is a social and ethical obligation, though you are right in one respect, which is that the obligation is not a legal one. There are some really good points made here. Here's another suggestion: set the mandatory service charge BELOW the standard tip level. It reduces the tip level but it also reduces the risk, since customers can't stiff the waitress. That seems to be a fair tradeoff. So how about 12%? Setting it that low leaves room for patrons to add something extra. Sure, some won't. But that's a fair tradeoff for mitigating the risk of being stiffed entirely. And I disagree that the mandatory service charge will create an incentive to provide minimal or bad service. I would still expect the VORO staff to do its best. I can't back that up. It's merely my intuition. And what does VORO stand for? Several here have claimed it is an abbreviation for something. Tom Reingold | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2005 |
Mr. MOL: I knew that. --The Oracle of MOL | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 73 Registered: 2-2003 |
If you are going to add anything at all to the bill, I can't see setting the amount as low as 12%. If the service wasn't worth 15%, then it merits a discussion with management. Conversely, if the service wasn't bad enough to merit a discussion with management, then it was worth at least 15%. | ||
| Nonymous Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 8409 Registered: 1-2003 |
Fair enough, Stuart0628. |
