| Author | Message | ||
     AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1101 Registered: 10-2004 |
I've tried the little Costa Rican place on SA and everyone I was with enjoyed our meal immensely. The owner was EXTREMELY friendly. Low on charm but tasty overall. | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 36 Registered: 1-2006 |
Drove past today, Costa Rican Pizzaria on corner of Ashwood and Park in Summit is Buena Vista Pizzeria. Up the Street is Park Deli (on Park.) I believe there are both owned by the same people. | ||
| mooewe Citizen Username: Mooewe Post Number: 318 Registered: 6-2001 |
A note on Westfield: to the average visitor approaching from the north or east, it appears that Westfield is mostly big older homes. However, the town spreads south toward Clark, where there are a great many "newer" (post-1950) homes. There is also quite a bit of tear-down/new construction activity. | ||
| Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1349 Registered: 6-2003  |
A note on Livingston, too: we have no train station, true. But I have found that driving to the train is going to make your commute no worse than taking the train from a further-out town such as Madison or Chatham. Many Livingston people who commute to the city drive to Harrison, where they take the PATH and where there is a huge parking lot, or even Brick Church, where there is guarded parking. There are also express buses that go straight from Livingston to the city (I am not a bus person so I don't bother with them), to which you can walk to the stops. I am told the buses take about 35 minutes. I am a big proponent of buying and restoring old, beautiful houses, and if my situation were different, I would not have left Maplewood. But I find Livingston to have its own charms -- namely, lower taxes for a great school system. And, not all the houses are post-war...there is a core of 1920s and 1930s houses in the older section of town, near the Northfield/Livingston Ave intersection. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2647 Registered: 9-2002  |
Zoesky, I think the main concern about living in a non-train town is the parking availability in the closest town serviced by the train. Agree the commute is potentially better assuming you can find parking. Another close non-train town is Mountainside which I hear has very nice lot sizes. That is why I make sure people considering Chatham know that unless you live close to the train station (in Chatham Boro) you can't get a parking pass. Ridiculous. | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 442 Registered: 1-2004 |
a note about maplewood's "exhorbitant taxes" (I beg to differ with wendyn). You need to compare "like" houses in "like" neighborhoods, like Smarty Jones did above. Maplewood's taxes seem exhorbitant to the Millburn area when comparing similar house prices only. So... 3 bdr 1 bath house Mpl $350M with $7500 taxes Millburn $550 with $7500 taxes $550M house Mpl 4 bdr 2 bath $11,000 Millburn 3 bdr 1 bath $7500 See the difference? | ||
| Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1350 Registered: 6-2003 |
Wendy, I agree. Good point. I have a place I park in Maplewood that is totally legal and permitted, but it could be a pain. Then again, if someone commutes early, there is plenty of space in the $3 lots, open to anyone from any town. | ||
| kevin Supporter Username: Kevin Post Number: 593 Registered: 2-2002 |
A little history: The Wyoming section of Millburn had their own train station until it was torn down in 1912. Mail delivery was through the Maplewood post office until 1958. Wyoming Grade school graduates went to Colombia (until ?). The phone numbers in Wyoming were a South Orange exchange. Residents tried to get their own zip code, but it never went through. Most residents had identified themselves with Maplewood and not Millburn. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12007 Registered: 1-2003  |
I am under the impression that South Orange's taxes are not any lower than Maplewood's. It's no coincidence that Millburn and Short Hills share a school system. They are the same town! It's like saying my left hand and my right hand share a liver. | ||
| akb Citizen Username: Akb Post Number: 375 Registered: 12-2001 |
I moved from Maplewood to West Orange. There are jitney services to SO train station in 3 sections of town including St Cloud and Gregory, and an express bus to NYC from Northfield Ave (35 mins). I miss being in walking distance from the train, but I am happier in WO. We don't have issues with newer houses, and were able to get a much larger house in a nicer neighbourhood with more property and lower taxes than we would have been able to afford in Maplewood. There are a lot of youngish couples and families moving from the city to WO - I think many are priced out of Maplewood and Montclair and WO is a reasonable option. | ||
| Jennifer Pickett Citizen Username: Jpickett Post Number: 141 Registered: 4-2005 |
We also considered taxes when choosing where to live- we actually thought the fact that MW/SO had been recently reassessed was a plus. At least we knew the tax burden. Moving to a community that hasn't had a reval for 10 years (like West Orange) made us nervous since we might not be able to afford the tax spike when the reval inevitably happened. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2648 Registered: 9-2002 |
I don't know anyone in the Maplewood Wyoming area paying $7500 in taxes. And I don't think I've seen many houses in that area for $350k. I do know that I just saw a Millburn home in Wyoming, 5 bdrm 2.5 bath for just under $1M with taxes under $9k. Friends just moved to Maplewood near town (from Millburn) and paid just under $1M for 5bdrm 2.5 bath with taxes of $20k. Millburn's prices are higher for the house that you get. Millburn also has a much smaller stock of housing than Maplewood. Millburn taxes are much lower for the same priced house. And in fact, all of the towns mentioned except New Providence have taxes that are significantly lower than Maplewood for the same priced house. I haven't heard of many Millburnites having "Maplewood envy". But I have heard a lot of Maplewoodian on this board bashing Millburn because everyone who lives there is rich and snobby. Glad that my friends in Maplewood don't treat me that way, otherwise I would be inclined to say that Maplewood certainly doesn't have the "nicest people". Fortunately I know people in both towns that are nice, and some that are aholes. And concerning Millburn being made up of "haves" and "have mores", I know people in Millburn, Maplewood and South Orange that have similar income levels. Your information would be really useful if you weren't so obnoxious toward other towns. | ||
| Handygirl Citizen Username: Handygirl Post Number: 518 Registered: 2-2004 |
I agree Tom, I looked in MW and SO and I did not see any tax difference between the two. Both are out of control. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2649 Registered: 9-2002 |
Tom, because Millburn and Short Hills have different names, postal codes and exchanges I thought it might be helpful to know that they share a school system. Might sound stupid to you but some people might not know that. Jennifer, totally agree about the reassessment. Millburn is about to be reassessed and we are not looking forward to it. Also agree that West Orange is lovely and you can get a lot for your money there. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12012 Registered: 1-2003 |
Fair enough, Wendyn. I guess we used different words to say the same thing. | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 444 Registered: 1-2004 |
I don't really want to fight wendyn but there are more areas in Maplewood than the "Wyoming" section, or Jefferson area as we call it. I would say that Millburn neighborhoods are more comparable to neighborhoods around Maplewood's Clinton school in terms of housing and lot size. That's really my point. The Jefferson area is more comparable, in housing sizes and lot size, to some streets in the Glenwood school area and other areas of Short Hills. When comparing that, Maplewood taxes are not exhorbitant. In fact, Maplewood's average taxes townwide are less than SH/M, actually, but I don't have those figures handy. Maplewood "envy" I said in terms of the fact that most millburnites love our village and wish they had one like it. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2650 Registered: 9-2002 |
You can't say that prices in Millburn are too high and say that taxes in Maplewood are reasonable. House prices on average are higher in Millburn than in Maplewood. You can get more for your money in Maplewood. But based on THE PRICE OF THE HOUSE, Maplewood taxes are much higher than Millburn. And you can't compare average taxes in Maplewood to MSH. Because there are more homes well over $1M in Short Hills than Maplewood. If you look at only Millburn, where home size & prices are more in line with Maplewood, that is a better comparison. But as Tom points out they are the same town, so I would doubt there is a breakdown. Handygirl, who I think lives in South Orange, says above "both (SO & M taxes) are out of control". Is it valid for her to say that as a SO resident but not me as a Millburn resident? Simply because you think I overpaid for my house? | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2005 |
I think I can put this in easy to understand terms, as our block is half Maplewood, Half Millburn, all the exact same homes.....here's the last sales/tax on each, 3 BR 1.5 bath house: Maplewood: $479,000 $12,900 tax Millburn: $625,000 $8,000 tax Maybe 8 houses between the two? | ||
| Eponymous Citizen Username: Eponymous Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2004 |
Wendyn wrote: "Madison- Not quite as lily white or expensive as chatham but further away on the train. Lots of older colonials and 50's ranches. Cute town center. Close to Morristown. Long train ride. Lots are bigger than those closer to NYC." It's one stop more on the train past Chatham, not even 5 minutes. "Summit- Nice downtown. Housing is expensive in the "northside" but cheaper in other areas. Great commuting town. More diverse than Chatham or Madison. Lowish taxes." Not much less white than Madison: White 18,546 87.8% "Maplewood - ...GREAT community pool!" Madison's pool is very nice too. No diving platform, but nice slides.  | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 445 Registered: 1-2004 |
"Simply because you think I overpaid for my house?" What are you talking about? And of course you can compare average taxes between the two townships because in the end it's all about paying for the services and the schools. It seems like Jefferson area has "exhorbitant" taxes compared with Millburn's Wyoming/s. mtn area, as to your initial point above, but it is comparing apples to oranges since the housing/lots are not comparable. | ||
| Grrrrrrrrrrr Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2002 |
There's also this big thing in Millburn called the Short Hills Mall. I would call it a huge ratable. I'm sure that impacts the property taxes somehow. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2651 Registered: 9-2002 |
Crabby, your initial post was extremely judgemental on people who choose to live in Millburn. My original post said (among other things): Maplewood: Less expensive than above towns but exorbitant taxes. It didn't say that the taxes made up the difference between the towns. I'm betting that if you compare Maplewood to a town that has similarly priced houses the taxes in Maplewood would be higher, probably by a lot. There are a lot of reasons to move to Maplewood. It is a great town. There are also a lot of reasons to move to Millburn. Smarty, the monthly payment difference between those two houses is about $400. I'm guessing there are people who think the reputation of the Millburn school system is worth an extra $400 a month, especially since most of what is paid is going toward their investement as opposed to taxes. Epy: Madison is a long train ride. Especially when comparing to South Orange, or even Summit. It is a great town, but we ruled it out because the commute wasn't much better than where we were in Basking Ridge. It is nice that most of these towns have recently redone their community pools...I knew Maplewood, South Orange, Millburn/SH, and Summit all did. Nice to know Madison did as well! I still like Maplewood's better than Millburn's mainly because of the toddler swimming pool and the great food. Gr: yep, gotta love that SH Mall. | ||
| Carla Citizen Username: Elbowroom Post Number: 31 Registered: 9-2005  |
When deciding amongst the towns listed above be sure to visit all the neighboring communities. | ||
| Handygirl Citizen Username: Handygirl Post Number: 519 Registered: 2-2004 |
Wendyn, You are getting pummelled and I'm not really sure why. All that I can say is that our taxes, as compared with the price of our home, are outrageous. When I tell friends (who live in other NJ towns) how much we pay in taxes their mouths drop. If my husband and I ultimately leave the M/SO area it will be because we'd rather spend more for our house and pay lower taxes (i.e. as you said, put our money into home equity vs the taxcollector's pocket). I know that our taxes are hight because there really isn't any industry in M/SO (like the SH mall). But it is maddening that, in addition to the crazy taxes, we have to pay for things like garbage collection, and our pool isn't as nice (SO) and our schools aren't as good as nearby places with lower taxes... I remember that there were recently a couple of places for sale in Madison and Summit for approximately 900K, both had taxes around $7,500. A similarly valued house in SO could easily have taxes of over 20k per year. Even homes in SO valued in the 700ks generally have taxes upwards of 16k. Crazy. | ||
| Camnol Citizen Username: Camnol Post Number: 209 Registered: 3-2005 |
It's been interesting reading people's impressions of the various towns. I pretty much agree with everything that has been said. I've either lived in or spent quite a bit of time in all of them except for Livingston. Neither my husband nor I are from New Jersey. He moved to Jersey because of the commute and I moved here because of him. It's been 16 years now and I have to say that I spent most of it really disliking New Jersey. We spent the last 10 years in a town that was very nice, but just not a good fit for us. We looked into moving quite a few times, but I didn't want to move and find out that things were basically the same, just different scenery. Then we discovered Maplewood, moved here last year, and we finally feel like we are home. I think all the towns listed (I can't comment on Livingston, as I have no real experience with it), are all variations on the same theme--except for Maplewood/South Orange. There are differences in commutes, some have nicer downtowns than others, but they all have good schools and are much more "suburban" than I consider Maplewood/South Orange. It's hard to explain. Maplewood/South Orange is certainly not for everyone. I had neighbors in my old development who left Maplewood for some of the same reasons we moved to Maplewood. My advice to your friends is to spend a lot of time hanging out in the towns they are thinking of. If they have kids, hang out in the parks, the ice cream parlors, & pizza joints and try to strike up conversations. They should be able to learn a lot that way. | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 446 Registered: 1-2004 |
snowmom, ajc and Ace789nj all agreed with my original post. I think someone just got a bit touchy. So I got touchy back with the exorbitant comment.  Here's an example like Smarty Jones but it plays even more to my point... my house is a 6 bedroom, 4 bath house with a big lot. If I want the same thing in SH/M I won't find what I want in Millburn, so I will need to go to SH, and I will have to pay at least $1.8MM-$2MM and the taxes are probably going to be upward of $30M. Based on recent sales here in Maplewood, I would think my house would be around $1MM to $1.2MM and the taxes are about $21,000. Someone want to do the math on payments? So....whatever...maybe someone sees my point. Who cares at this pointnow, the original poster has probably lost interest  Anyway, Essex County - taxes high Union County - taxes lower Anywhere in NJ - higher than the rest of the country | ||
| Old Toad Citizen Username: Skewer1 Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2005 |
Haven't lost interest yet. all this is useful, thx. Minor diversion: do any of these towns have park-like spaces one could take the kids to picnic / play ball? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10379 Registered: 5-2001 |
Maplewood has an edgy feal to it. It is more like living in a city than a typical suburb. Some like it, some don't. This may sound insane, but one of the main reasons we moved here in 1979 was sidewalks. My spouse, who grew up in Boston and in Queens, couldn't handle the idea of not having sidewalks to take the kids (still in the future then) for walks in their carriages. There were also other factors, but in Mrs. K's mind I think the sidewalks is what decided her. | ||
| Handygirl Citizen Username: Handygirl Post Number: 522 Registered: 2-2004 |
Crabby, I lost you a bit in the back and forth, but I completely agree with your ultimate point re SH taxes. My comment about saving on taxes and putting more into my home's equity does not really apply to houses in SH, because a house in SH equivilent to my current house, would be 2 or 3 times what my current house is worth in SO, and the taxes on the SH house, given its high price tag, would not actually constitute a tax savings and may actually have higher taxes. My point spoke more to the non-Essex county towns (Summit, Madison etc.) that are not QUITE as expensive as SH and have lower taxes generally than SH. In those towns, we could, theoretically, sell our house in SO and buy the equivilent, which would have a higher price tag. The higher price would be partially, if not completely, offset by the lower taxes (even with the new house costing more than the old house there would still be a significant tax savings). And although we would be paying the same or more each month, a higher percentage would be going towards my home's equity. I can't think about that too much right now because, at the end of the day, I don't want to think about leaving M/SO. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 3692 Registered: 1-2004  |
Wendy- Millburn / Short Hills also share police, fire and first aid. They are considered one town. I think of it as comparing Newstead to the rest of South Orange. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12015 Registered: 1-2003 |
We had a list of "must have" things and a list of "nice to have" things when searching for a town. Sidewalks were on the "must have" list for us, too. SO/M doesn't bus many of its students, and I consider that a "feature, not a bug," as we computer professionals would say. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3047 Registered: 5-2001 |
When we first moved to Maplewood yay many years ago (almost 20), the taxes were high then also compared to the prices. But what we looked at was the total cost of buying a house and we were able to afford more house in Maplewood than anywhere else in the area that was at all desirable. South Orange probably would have been comparable, but at that time there were no houses on the market in our price range in SO. We were completely priced out of Millburn, Short Hills, Madison, Chatham, etc. Wendy N is technically right, but when you are trying to find a home you can afford, it doesn't help to just look at taxes per purchase dollar if the total cost is out of your budget for the house you need, or possibly for any house in town. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10381 Registered: 5-2001 |
When we were looking for our first house we looked in Chatham as well. Basically, houses were around fifteen percent more expensive there but taxes were about 2/3rds of what they are here.. From a cost point of view things averaged out as Sac said. Here we got a slightly larger house (sunroom) on a slightly smaller lot (50 foot frontage vs. 60 foot frontage). I suspect the same is still true. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2652 Registered: 9-2002 |
JTA, I know that as I live in Millburn. Thanks Handy for explaining my point better than I could. And let's be honest, the reason Maplewood and South Orange have more affordable housing than the other towns listed are mainly twofold: 1. They have higher taxes so the prices have to be lower to accommodate this 2. Their school system is not as highly ranked as all the other towns listed And with #2 I do not mean in any sense that MSO school system is inferior. In fact I have heard exactly the opposite. I mean exactly what I said, which is that if you look at the school "report cards" for the middle and high schools, or if you look at rankings of high schools in NJ Monthly, you will see that overall rankings are higher in the other towns. For me the combination of a highly rated school system, easy NYC commute, reasonable taxes, and nice downtown sold me on Millburn despite the fact that I couldn't afford as much house as I would have liked. Definitely a trade off, but one we have been ultimately happy with. And to be honest when we looked we had a realtor from Chatham who knew very little about Millburn and next to nothing about Maplewood or South Orange, so MSO wasn't even on our radar. Now if my daughter would just stop saying "why can't we have a big house like our friends in Maplewood and South Orange". | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2653 Registered: 9-2002 |
Actually Bob I think prices in Chatham have shot up since they were named one of the "best places to live" by Fortune or Forbes, I forget which. | ||
| kevin Supporter Username: Kevin Post Number: 594 Registered: 2-2002 |
Aunt, I never realized that Newstead has a separate post office and zip code than the rest of South Orange (07079). Where is their post office located? | ||
| Valley_girl Citizen Username: Valley_girl Post Number: 105 Registered: 12-2004 |
We have a great park! It's right by the train station, and really big. There are plenty of events there, too. There was the rubber duck race at Memorial Day, there's a cultural fair in the summer with pony rides for the kids, concerts and fireworks in the summer, etc. South Mountain Reservation is right nearby, too. Halloween downtown was lots of fun--a costume contest for kids, a haunted house, trick-or-treating at the businesses--it's easy to get as involved with the community and your neighbors as you want--or not. Sunday morning everyone ends up at the diner for brunch--old people, young families with kids, gay families with kids, white, black, mixed--and everyone in a good mood. Some nice surprises for us, when we moved here, were that Maplewood has a big gay population, and, that (two years ago), it seemed like every other yard had a "Be About Peace" sign. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2005 |
....as opposed to the other named towns that had "War is Awesome" signs in their yards ??? | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1199 Registered: 10-2002  |
There are several excellent parks here in Maplewood. Maplecrest park, which borders Springfield Ave and Oakland Ave? Sorry - I forget the street names around it - but it has a few tennis courts, a couple of baseball diamonds. There are always people there on the weekends engaged in soccer games and baseball games as well as just playing around in the open spaces or sitting on the benches and reading. Memorial park by the Train station is also beautiful -- again tennis courts, basketball courts, playground areas, streams, ducks, etc. on a regular basis and in the summer, they have weekly outdoor concerts there. South Mountain reservation is a great place for walking, running, etc. and just enjoying the view or exercise. This area has a lot to offer. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10384 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wendyn, if you take a close look at the disaggregated test scores for MHS and CHS, white pupils actually do a little better at CHS. |
