| Author | Message | ||
     Neen Citizen Username: Neen Post Number: 207 Registered: 1-2004 |
After living in South Orange for two years, I must say that I like many aspects of life here, but I still have this constant itch to move back to the upper west side where I had lived for 10 years. I miss all the places to walk to, all the entertainment you got just walking down the street, and of course the lack of concerns like gutter cleaning, etc. Have others experienced this? | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 202 Registered: 10-2005 |
daily! Do you have a family? | ||
| Neen Citizen Username: Neen Post Number: 208 Registered: 1-2004 |
Not yet, but expecting to have a very small family (1 child). So the city isn't totally out of the question...I just find myself looking at real estate all the time and can't shake the feeling that I want to move back. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2005 |
We did the exact same thing a couple years back, and now that 'reason' is 14 mos old, and there is another 'reason' on the way....seeing my daughter run around in our backyard for the first time, and having the extra space for Grandparents/guests this first year has been completely priceless. Further, we learned that there is SOOO much to do for young parents and their babies in these two towns, and we wouldn't have really pursued comparable activities, or have been surrounded by so many other young families like us. (I know the UWS is stroller-city, but several years up there, and we never met our neighbors). This has truly been a great, easy place to have our Daughter, yet still be 12 miles from Holland tunnel, and a 30 minute train ride to downtown Manhattan (about what my trip on the 1-9 was from the UWS). That said, my wife still looks at NYC real estate quite often, and we still talk about it from time to time and we're not certain this is our permanent destination....but I can see it becoming permanent fairly easily as the time goes by..... | ||
| Carla Citizen Username: Elbowroom Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2005  |
Here's a recent NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/realestate/08cov.html?ex=1138165200&en=9d5294d 4fe155c92&ei=5070 FOR many New York City families, January is the cruelest month. It is a time to get seriously claustrophobic in an apartment stocked with young children and the vast plastic undergrowth in which they thrive. It also a time for many to ponder the absurdity (or impossibility) of paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for private-school tuition, soon due for the coming semester. But those plotting a hasty exit to the suburbs (the space! the schools! the space!) may want to consider the experience of others who went before them, only to double back within a year. "I'm never leaving the city again; I'm terrified of leaving the city," said Anna Hillen, 42, summing up the prevailing sentiment among the repatriates interviewed for this article... | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1267 Registered: 5-2001 |
I definitely plan on moving back to the city once the kids are grown, but I have no desire to live there with kids... and I love Maplewood. I met someone this weekend who moved from the Upper West Side to Millburn about a year ago in order to accomodate his wife's job change. He has two small kids and clearly is not happy with the change. I asked him how often he took the kids to Manhattan and he said "never". He seems to regard his situation as some sort of sentence. I believe that you can have the best of both worlds out here if you are willing to put in a bit of effort and planning. My four-year-old daughter loves Maplewood and she loves the city. She's been to the park, zoo and art classes at the Met many times. | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 1150 Registered: 7-2002 |
If you don't have kids (yet), it's easy to see why you'd be pining for the city. It took me until my second kid to really feel like I made the right choice. | ||
| taam Citizen Username: Taam Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2006 |
Neen, I hear what you are saying. I really missed it for a little while. - But, after moving out for a little while, but like Smarty Jones, love to see my kid (soon to be kidS)running around outside & not worrying about what they're touching on the ground...etc. Our apt had a little porch, which felt GREAT - just to get some air & we were a block from the park, but there is just NO COMPARISON (IMHO)to your own backyard (no matter how small.) How long have you lived here? I say give it time if you are planning on having a kid asap, if not, maybe venture back. I've also heard it can take 3 years to really start appreciated / enjoying / prefering the place you live, if it's a big change from where you used to live. - True or False? - I don't know. | ||
| Mtam Citizen Username: Mtam Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2005 |
I'm with you, even with kids. So it may not be a feeling that goes away entirely. I do like family life here, but I'm always secretly checking out real estate in Brooklyn and doing the math in my head. (with 2 children, it's not easy to add up). I will say that on the weeks that I make a point of being in the city, using the neighborhoods as I used to, going to events, I feel the loss less. (This week alone I will have gone to the theater, a concert at Carnegie, and now MOMA with the kids, so it seems the best of both worlds) I feel pretty hard-wired for the city, but couldn't put up with the compromises right now, in terms of space. And it is true--the physical freedom for the children here, the summertime, with the pool, is spectacular. But I don't think it's out of the question to go back. | ||
| Newstead Citizen Username: Newstead77 Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2004 |
Neen, I felt exactly that way you do, and have missed the city since moving here a few years ago. Having grown up in a city myself, moving to the suburbs took a very long time for me to adjust. This winter, we were able live in the city with the kids. After staying there for a while, I realized the following: a) It is more expensive - everything from drycleaning to groceries to kids classes costs about 75% more. b) The kids need either a large apartment or a building which has a garden or a brownstone w/ garden to play in. In a house, they can run around indoors and play, in an apartment that's a lot more difficult. c) Day to day activities were difficult - while an adult can easily walk 5-10 blocks to the nearest store, it's a lot harder with kids. Taxis are not available when it rains/during rush hour/or on very cold days. Findng public bathrooms is also a headache. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed living on the UWS when we had no kids, but with kids it's easier to get into a car and drive to the playground/gym/store etc. What I am thinking of now, is to purchase a pied a terre in the city, allowing us to enjoy the city when we want, while still having a backyard, 4br home etc. (However, since I work in the city, maintaining a place in the city, might end up having me taxed as a New York City resident - so I am trying to work through the economics of the purchase) | ||
| Mtam Citizen Username: Mtam Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2005 |
We should form a support group of hardcore city addicts who can't quite kick the habit. In the article, the quote from the guy who couldn't stand certain things about the suburbs--how no one understood setting down his quarter and grabbing his newspaper; or how everyone's profession seemed to be lawnmowing, just cracked me up. | ||
| Neen Citizen Username: Neen Post Number: 209 Registered: 1-2004 |
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't blissfully mow their lawn and tend to their weeds instead of going to Central Park to enjoy the well tended gardens! Thanks for the support! | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12022 Registered: 1-2003  |
I grew up in NYC and have lived in NJ since 1987. My wife moved out here to be with me and then marry me in 2002. We chose Maplewood for a number of reasons. I love Maplewood. She likes it. See the difference? After the kids (from my first marriage, who live with us) are grown, we may move back, because she made a sacrifice to leave the city and live here. I might like moving back there. And if we can afford a weekend house in the country, it might satisfy our urges to be in greenery and be gardeners. My younger daughter will graduate high school in 2010. | ||
| Mtam Citizen Username: Mtam Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2005 |
Definitely a go on Central Park. I simply enjoy it more, and it's so interesting and has so many interesting parts. I will say, that having grown up in Queens, my father used to take me for a bike ride in Central Park about once a month. I thought of it as my park, as much as I did the local parks, maybe more so. I'm trying to raise the kids with the same sense of adventure for the city, not seeing it as so separate. It definitely gives me a thrill that my son's got a favorite gelato place in the Village. (It helps that he has a grandmother there, too) But I don't miss the hassle and expense of family life in the city, as Newstead detailed. It just isn't as easy. | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 852 Registered: 3-2002 |
My husband sometimes talks about trying to buy an office for his law practice in the city instead of renting...my fantasy is that it has a tiny kitchen/full bath & a murphy bed so we can stay over sometimes. I think there will be no FL retirement for us...maybe the city. We also want to live for a year in Paris when the kids move out (that's a long time from now...giving us plenty of time to learn the french that we don't currently speak!) Glad we aren't the only ones who take our kids to the park...in the city! Still love that 3rd St. playground (& nearby Tot Lot) in Bklyn | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12026 Registered: 1-2003 |
doulamomma, my wife and I also have the year-in-Paris idea! | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 853 Registered: 3-2002 |
wow - I just read the Times article. I can see some of what they are saying, but I also think I have been able to find some of what they say is not available - community, walkability etc...and it's not at the mall. maybe it helps that a large protion of my mom's group/play group from Park Slope now lives in M/SO... | ||
| amandacat Citizen Username: Amandacat Post Number: 982 Registered: 8-2001  |
Wow, that article sounds NOTHING like my experience of Maplewood-style suburbia. A native New Yorker myself (Queens, Manhattan, and, after college, Brooklyn) I am surprised at how much I really DON'T miss the city; don't get me wrong, there are lots of things about city life that are great, but living here I truly feel like I have the best of both worlds: community, safety, and space, only 30 minutes from all that Manhattan has to offer. | ||
| Neen Citizen Username: Neen Post Number: 212 Registered: 1-2004 |
Funny you should mention safety, Amandacat, one of the things my husband and I talk about most is that we felt safer on the upper west side than we do around here. On the upper west side I never heard of muggings at gunpoint happening blocks from my home. | ||
| amandacat Citizen Username: Amandacat Post Number: 983 Registered: 8-2001 |
Just because you didn't hear of them CERTAINLY doesn't mean they weren't happening! Though the city is undoubtably safer now than it was when I was growing up (aahh, the glorious crack-fueled 80's), I guarantee you that your chances of being mugged in your old neighborhood was many times more than it is here in M/SO. That said, does anyone know how I can prove this contention of mine? Is there any way to check crime rates by zip code, for example? | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1034 Registered: 5-2003 |
My husband and I are both native New Yorkers--me from Queens and he from Brooklyn. After we married we lived first in Manhattan and then in Brooklyn. We moved to South Orange because we had two little boys. The public schools were in turmoil, and were not good, and we couldn't easily afford private school for two kids. So we scraped together what we could, and borrowed from our parents, and, moved out here where we knew a couple of people. We've never been sorry. Our children, and now our grandchildren, as well as ourselves, have a much better life here than we could have had in the city. After my mother died, I sold her Queens apartment, and severed my last tie to New York City. Yes, we still go there for cultural events, but South Orange is home. | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 858 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tom, Maybe were can all meet in a cafe in Paris & toast Maplewood/SO! ŕ la vie & les ręves (? or something like that!) | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3054 Registered: 5-2001 |
We moved from Texas, not New York City, but as taam said, it also took us about 3 years to get to the point where we didn't think we would move back. About ten years later when we were offered a chance (company-paid move) we said "No thanks". In May we will celebrate our 20th anniversary of moving to Maplewood! | ||
| kmk Supporter Username: Kmk Post Number: 935 Registered: 5-2001 |
The NYC apartment with a tiny kitchen and a murphy bed that my husband and I sold 8 years ago is about to go back on the market! If we can scrape together enough money (especially from the appreciation of this home of 11 years) we might be able to buy it back.. A "pied-a--terre" au NYC would be my dream. Our kids are still little-ish and we have family in Paris so my NYC apartment is my focus now. Many friends of mine long for a house out in the "horse country" around Far Hills etc. In a phrase...."You couldn't pay me!" | ||
| Gatica™ Citizen Username: Katracho Post Number: 238 Registered: 11-2002  |
Man, and I thought I was the only one! I have been in Maplewood nine months, and, no, it's not growing on me. I don't get the small town feel (only on MOL) that people and newspapers rave about around here. Drivers are rude, at times worse than in the city. I have not met many people. Barely speak to my neighbors. Leave my house before sunrise. Return way, way, after sunset. Just thinking about child care gives me convulsions (it was easier in Queens). All these cryptic rules about recycling. Need a car to get anything done. TAXES. TAXES. TAXES. What is there to love about the 'burbs? The second I have an opportunity, I am going back to Queens. [derogatory comments edited out]. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12044 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't mean to be a smart-tush, but if you are not home from early morning until late at night, can you expect to meet anyone here? And you knew the tax bill when you moved in. I think it's fair to complain about the taxes when they've increased a lot on you. But yeah, needing to drive everywhere is a problem, and it's what my wife dislikes the most. | ||
| Dobler88 Citizen Username: Dobler88 Post Number: 84 Registered: 7-2005 |
I moved here from the city six months ago. It has been an interesting adjustment. But I guarantee you that the day I can sit out on my deck and have dinner, listening to the kids next door and down the street play, and plant my own flowers, I will be THRILLED to be here. It's hard when you move and you have to go through a whole winter. I get up at dawn and come home after dark too. And my house isn't all that big. But it sure beats a 500 square foot apartment! Give it some time, and keep an open mind! | ||
| Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 2752 Registered: 12-2004  |
Just as an opposite POV, particularly for Gatica's sake, I grew up in the true "suburbs" and there was virtually "nothing" to walk to. All we had was one little "general store" (we're talking north Jersey here, so it's not really the quaint little general store you might envision) that was also a gas station. And the local library was within walking distance from our house, but that was not the case for a majority of the commumity. Not to mention, were you so inclined to walk anywhere, there wasn't a sidewalk to be found. So, in some cases you risked your life walking in the street. To say you need a car to get anywhere in Maplewood seems to only indicate to me that you haven't tried the walk, and are looking for everything to be within a couple blocks of your house. I walk all the time here in Maplewood, and can do quite a bit of what I need done downtown: Groceries at Kings, the Post Office, kids birthday gifts at Scrivners (or Wooden You Know or Stories in Motion on SA), haircuts for me, the hubby and the kids, photo processing, gift buying for adults, buying a good book or a magazine, banking, making travel plans, seeing a movie, a casual dinner with the kids or and nice dinner with the hubby and friends, perscriptions at the pharmacy (I go to Carolina which is within very close walking distance to my home), plants at The Mill, books from the library--and the list goes on. Granted, I don't always walk, but that has more to do with time constraints and the weather. I can even walk to my pediatrician's office, which is just over the line in Millburn, if it were necessary to do so. | ||
| Newstead Citizen Username: Newstead77 Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2004 |
Gatica, I hear you. In fact, you sound like I did for the first three years here. My job also has me leaving for NY around 5:30 am and returning home at 7:30 pm at the earliest. The turning point for me was to actually move back to the city this winter for a couple of months - thinking I would love being back in my old neighborhood - only to discover that the things which were so much fun to do before we had kids, were simply more difficult and inconvenient with kids. For example: a) Taking a stroller in and out of the trunk of a taxi is not a lot of fun. Also, buckling a car seat each time you get into a taxi is a headache. b) Most restaurants are not kid-friendly - so they will not carry high chairs or be as tolerant if your child requires attention c) Lugging groceries back to the apartment(instead of driving into a garage) can be tiring In addition, I also realize that to live in NY - requires at a minimum a 2 or 3 br/2 ba apartment ($1 mln +), and the ability to send the kids to private school ($30,000/kid/year) and pay higher NYC taxes. Not to mention that virtually all items cost more - restaurants/groceries/parking/car insurance. While I thought I would love to back in the city, the reality turned out to be slightly different. Just some things to keep in mind. Regards, | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6626 Registered: 5-2001  |
It takes the average NYC emmigrant 14 years to admit that they live in Jersey (I read this stat somewhere). I moved here (Jersey, not Maplewood) in 1990. Lived in strictly commuter apartments (walking to the PATH or express bus to the Port) for several years. Maplewood has been great (9 years this spring) because there are so many ex-NYers. But, you do have to get out and meet people. It is easier in the summer. I've worked in Jersey for the past few years and I do miss working in the city. That would be the perfect compromise for me. I used to go in several nights a week after work, but my hours are too crazy and I am too tired usually these days. If you don't have kids or some other "affinity group" I can see how it would be hard to settle here. We are a gay couple with no kids, and when we first moved here, we looked for houses with rainbow flags and knocked on doors. Over the years, friends have said "a gay couple is moving in a couple blocks from you" and we will invite them over and introduce them to other couples. It's sort of our version of making friends thru the kids' play dates, I guess. Most of our close friends now include people (gay and str8) in our age group who don't have kids. It makes sense because our lives are very different. We've also always made a point of taking cookies or brownies to new neighbors. Hokey and totally suburban, but it's the fastest way to meet people and see if there is a freindship connection there. I also remember how good it felt, and how less lost we were, when we moved here and someone did that for us. These guys are still among our closest friends, even tho they moved to SO a year later. Then again, I knew none of my neighbors as "friends" in Brooklyn, so maybe it has been easier to develop roots here. But, I miss the energy of the city. It's just different. My fanatsy is to be able to live our current life style in our single-family townhouse with roof deck, backyard and parking downtown. We will enjoy our country home on summer weekends. Anything short of that and we stay put. | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2006  |
Gatica, "Barely speak to my neighbors. Leave my house before sunrise. Return way, way, after sunset." And you've given it 9 months? Yeah, you should just give up. That should have worked by now. Enjoy Queens! Or... give it some more time. What year of college was it when you met the friends you still keep in touch with? | ||
| Handygirl Citizen Username: Handygirl Post Number: 529 Registered: 2-2004 |
Maybe some of you should form a support group/ Sat. lunch group? That way you all can meet M/SO people and you can all reminisce about the good old days when you used to be high rollers in the city-taking out falafels at 2:30am  On a more serious note, I miss the city also, but with kids and an interest in furniture building and renovating, the city just isn't practical for me or my family right now. M/SO is the next best thing and it's a great compromise. And don't take this the wrong way - any of you, but some people just shouldn't leave the city. If you can afford it, and if living here makes you miserable, then go back. The commute sucks (even though it is better from M/SO than most other places). It is grueling and awful. I did it for a long time myself. So I understand. You should give M/SO a little more time though - with an open mind. Try to separate your feelings about the commute from your experience in M/SO - if you can. | ||
| Gatica™ Citizen Username: Katracho Post Number: 239 Registered: 11-2002 |
Reingold, I knew about the taxes being high before we moved, but somehow, it doesn’t sink in until you have to write the check. Jersey Boy: "What year of college was it when you met the friends you still keep in touch with?" I met the friends that I keep in touch with in Junior High and High School. Yeah, I know nine months is not a lot of time. I figure, like someone else stated, my sentence is two years, then, maybe I’ll get paroled into Queens. But you never know, I suppose. Next year, I’ll be posting about how much I love it here, and how dare the NYT write such a blasphemous article about the ‘burbs. One more thing, I spent $20 to join the Newcomers Club. Not sure that was wise spending. The club seems like a great idea, but I don’t have the time to attend any of the functions during the week. On weekends, there are family commitments, or the perpetual home project to tend to. (I want my money back! j/k). On a side note: I see a lot of comments about how expensive the city is compared to the ‘burbs. Maybe Manhattan is more expensive, but not the outer boroughs. There is always a considerable markup on anything you buy in Manhattan. For example: Snapple, Manhattan $1.50, Queens $1.00. I am moving back so I can save those 50 cents, man! Handygirl - the support group idea, not a bad one. | ||
| Handygirl Citizen Username: Handygirl Post Number: 531 Registered: 2-2004 |
Gatica - we also knew about the taxes, and, like you, knowing about them and actually writing the check are two very different things. My husband is crazy about these taxes (not in a good way), me less so. Somehow with each tax bill that we receive he gets more irate. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1270 Registered: 5-2001 |
Gatica, it really just sounds as though you don't have the time to meet your neighbors or get to know the town. | ||
| Mtam Citizen Username: Mtam Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2005 |
I think it's refreshing to have a conversation rolling about those that aren't completely won over by the fabled Maplewood-South Orange life. It's usually so much the other way. What's different for me is the street life, the stores and fashion, great food, cultural events, and going to parties where not every single person is in the same demographic as me--having children, etc. and where I wind up talking about a far wider range of subjects (okay flame me) I too didn't find the whole neighbor thing happening, and I don't have long days/commute, so I wouldn't assume that's Gatica's problem. In fact, what I found hard was finding people to talk about something other than lawns or the schools. It did feel provincial. But again, over time, one finds one's way, I think, and hooks up with those who you're more on the same wavelength with. I agree when people say as compared to other suburbs, this is so different. That's why I will put up with the taxes--other suburbs are simply not an option for me (perhaps Montclair) The only other option is the city. That said, this is a pretty and funky place and I think it's also changing, for the better. And I simply love living in a house, over a cramped apartment. | ||
| taam Citizen Username: Taam Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2006 |
Mtam, i like what you have to say & can relate to a lot of it. i'm wondering in what way do you see m/so changing (for the better - or worse for that matter?) | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2255 Registered: 9-2003  |
We've been here nearly 3 years. I suspect that if you don't have kids, or built in friends, it's harder to get into this or any town. I've come to like it here, and people have been absolutely great to my family during my husband's illness. I still think the taxes are ridiculous, the local politics insular and soap operatic, and the schools OK. I think this town is rather clubby, and if you're not the joiner type, it's probably tough to settle in. Having to keep long work hours doesn't help. Also, I'm no NY-er, but I'm not sure I know the difference between Queens and NJ towns. It all seems about the same to me...but then I'm from further south and used to more spread out towns. To me, much of NE Jersy, Queens, LI is all about the same. My family still finds funny how close together towns are here and how you're outta one and into another in a matter of like 2 miles... | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 736 Registered: 5-2001 |
And this isn't even the REAL suburbs. Go try living out in some McMansion development with a 2-hour commute into the city by bus, then you'll see how "the other half" lives! | ||
| Neen Citizen Username: Neen Post Number: 214 Registered: 1-2004 |
Mtam, Well put! I have often marvelled at how when I do actually talk to someone around here the subject immediately does go to lawns, children, and house related topics. Is it because those are easy and obviously universal topics for people out here? It can be a perfectly pleasant conversation, but it doesn't leave me coming back for more. |
