| Author | Message | ||
     SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2897 Registered: 9-2003 |
The circle of life thing sucks. MFIL shouldn't be living alone, but refuses to give up her 15 room semi-mansion. She's not at the stage where we can have her declaired unable to make her own decisions, but we get calls about things missing on a daily baisis. "It was there yesterday" - her yesterday may have been 10 years ago, but it's yesterday to her. We do what we can, and are the only ones of her children who make an effort to see that she has food in the house and some weekend distractions. While she was showing signs of dimentia a couple of years ago, it has gained momentum of late - my theory is that it is due to her eldest child knocking on Heaven's door. It's a frightening/frustating place to be... for all of us. There is a small little glimmer of hope on the BIL front. He had to have yet another stint put in on Friday - the Dr. says that this time was easier. Could mean that the tumor is responding to the chemo and shrinking. Chemo is making him very sick... he's 6' tall and down to 150 lbs. But... we'll take that glimmer and hold onto it for a bit. Greenie - I hear you about looking back and seeing a very self centered teenager.. I've got my own story on that one... but then again, so does my own daughter.... tell your mom ... I did, my kid did...then get rid of the guilt. Cyn - Greenie's right.. don't coddle.. but also remember that her added responsibility of tending to her own clothes and room (which, by the way was LONG coming) is all new to her, so cut her some slack and offer advice... "separate the clean from the dirty and put them away, now sort the dirty - oh look at this lovely new hamper I bought you!"... changes won't come overnight, but with patience and time. Blessings to you all! | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2210 Registered: 9-2003  |
SoOrLady -- Glad to hear about glimmer of hope. I forget: was he pretty strong (vital organs) prior to onset? That could help. Curt is said to have withstood a lot, possibly due to core healthy, possibly stubbornness. I just had the damdest recollection, which relates to the "borne caretaker" thing. When I was about 25, I worked for the el/hi division of McGraw-Hill in NYC. There was a guy there, a sr editor of reading. Southern man, prolly about 50 at the time. Wicked, sly sense of humor and he and I got along great. He was a very closetted gay man. Anywho, he and I were trying to write a sort of alternating novel in verse that was a sardonic takeoff of c/w music and certain kinds of southern melodrama. We were calling it "A Dried Rose Fell from the Bible." This fellow's private life was quite private, but on one occasion, he'd picked up some guy the night before, brought him home and was beaten and robbed. The hell of it was that he couldn't tell the truth of it at work because, well, it would've given the game away. An outcome of the whole thing was that he realized he had to stop drinking (kept a bottle of vodka in his desk drawer). His doc was going to help him, but the directions for this first weekend of resolve, and the week thereafter, was to find someone to stay with him. Which I did. In some ways, it was a terribly nice weekend. We never talked about his personal orientation -- I think his age, southern gentlemen-ness and shyness would have forebade -- but he told me the best stories about his growing up, his brief marriage and so on. We shopped for a made nice dinners, sat up late looking at old photo albums. He had a great place in the Murray Hill area of NYC. All in all it was a very successful weekend, and week thereafter where we dined and so on. We were, most of the time, highly oblique about what was going on with him physically and the drivers to the decision. But we were very close in very many other ways. Plus, he turned me on to the writers James Purdy and Walker Percy, both of whom I still love. Must be something in me that radiates "can deal with anything." Anyway, I just remembered this and felt the need to share. He succeeded, BTW, so far as know. We stayed in touch for a good 10 yrs thereafter when he left for an editor gig in FL and I moved on as well. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3028 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'm afraid my teenager's room is a total disaster and I've left it for her to live in the mess and hopefully, eventually, decide that she doesn't want to live like that and then clean it up. Meanwhile, about once a month when our cleaning service comes, I make her pick up the floor so that they can at least vacuum a bit and get to the trash can to empty it. Other than that, I just try not to look in there too often. I had her doing her laundry for awhile but then took it back, with the proviso that I don't go looking for her dirty clothes; she has to bring them to the laundry room since she refuses to use a hamper. Being a poster child for the "sandwich generation", I also have octogenarian parents to deal with ... albeit at a distance. Both parents are starting to really show the symptoms of dementia - my father with a diagnosed (early stage) case of Alzheimer's disease and my mother refusing to consult the doctors about it, but clearly having significant memory problems to go along with serious physical frailty. Fortunately, they have finally agreed to look for an assisted living situation, which is a major step, especially for my father. (They've lived in the same house since I was three months old!) However, identifying a facility that will meet their desires, on a variety of fronts, is the next major challenge. My prodigal younger sister is starting to step up to the plate a bit more, which is good since she lives in the area and I don't. One of the first "fronts" is whether the place will be near where they (and one or two friends still living) live now or near where my sister lives ... an hour away without traffic. I'm lobbying for the latter, but seem to be losing at the moment. Unfortunately, sis is ambivalent on that point, but she's probably going to have to live with the consequences of that choice more than I will, so I can only point out advantages and disadvantages and let it go at that. Somehow the aging parents stuff (and other seemingly more significant issues) tend to keep me from worrying so much about pigsty conditions in the teenage bedroom, but then other times I feel guilty for not working harder to get better habits established before we got to this stage. sigh! | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2211 Registered: 9-2003 |
Well, sac, that makes me feel better. I think I shall try to hang in with her doing her own laundry as it eliminates a cycle of tension. She gets fussed about how it's folded and put away if I do it. If I don't do it, it lands on the floor and crawls back into the basket. I'm think if she has responsibility for it, she has only herself to blame. So, I'll try this. The parental stuff is really, really hard and I do not recall fondly those years, about 4 of them, when that was intense for me. It was a relief when my mother died, as she'd not been much there for decades. With my father, relief and regret for how his life had been. Watching him permanently colored my feelings about to what extent and under what conditions a family can be expected to care for a mentally ill person. Under some circumstances, the price is just too high, the drugs too inadequate. Also left me convinced that a lot of kids in dysfunctional circumstance would be best off in a good boarding school or similar. I have found that bodily ailments do not exhaust caregivers to the extent that mental ailments do. Sounds like your approach with your parents and sister is just right, and you'll all rest easier with your parents in some kind of facility. My parents were in a really nice one, that I wouldn't mind being in myself in terms of dining, laundry, windows, etc. Sometimes, too, the community angle is helpful to them. Good luck with it. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 6913 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hopefully. girls are different. I took the your room is your responsibility neither Dad nor I is going to touch it approach with my son and at 26 years of age, his room is as messy as it was when he first took responsibility for it. This is extremely messy. In retrospect, I think kids need to see what neat and clean is and come to appreciate the advantages of being able to wear clean, mostly unstained, unwrinkled, untorn clothes; find what they are looking for where it is supposed to be; have a clear surface in which to stand/sit/sleep without having to deal first with the objects already occupying every available space. This takes a little behavior modeling and a fair amount of instruction/assistance/help until the child is really able to handle such things on their own. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6557 Registered: 5-2001  |
Once I got my own place (not college apartments, but my own place), I turned into a total neat freak. Before that, I was regularly grounded for the state of my room. Which didn't do much good. I hung out, got high, read a lot & made bongs out of bits & pieces of stuff around the room. I just had a very frank discussion with mom about our expectations should she do more chemo & get sick again. Nearly everyone in her support system has had family issues pop up in the last few months; two literally have dying elderly parents; one also has an elderly aunt & uncle whom she has to fly to Arizona to check on once a month; one has a family member whose leukemia has come out of remission. Another is very ill herself and will not be fully recuperated for several months. Etc., etc. I was pretty up front about the fact that we won't be able to pull off what we did the last time and that whether she likes it or not, we (her children) need someone we can rely on to check on her when things don't sound right. She insists that she can get herself to the doctor by cab or call an ambulance if needed. I reminded her that those are not the times we worry about, but the times when her blood pressure is too low or she is too dehydrated to make sensible decisions. I said that I respect her independence, but that part of that risk is that she will die in her chair and that, since she currently appears to want to live, she needs to think about how and who we can depend on to help her out. She always has the choice to come to NJ or go to Chicago for treatment. but I think that she won't. She's excited about her kitchen face-lift and I think that it is really important to her to be around to enjoy it. We discussed the situation with her health insurance and she was calm about that. She's got a doctor appointment tomorrow and I asked her if we were going to ask him about the results of the biopsy from last week's procedure and she said "probably". When I look at her like this, in control and fairly healthy, I can't believe that she is sick and I believe in her faith in herself to make it. She makes comments every once in awhile like "I wonder if I'll get to see the twins grow up". We had a very emotional, tearful discussion today about the fact that my grandfather has no grave marker or name plate on the Yartzeit wall at the Temple. I've known for years that the reason that there is none (and his ashes are still in the back of mom's closet) is that GMF would never allow it and mom abided by it. But, she is now thinking about mortality and memories and is upset that he will be forgotten because there is nothing that says he lived anywhere. I reminded her that the people who knew him and loved him don't need to look at a plaque and said that we can call the Rabbi in the morning to have a name plate put up. As his daughter, she has just as much right to give permission as his wife, methinks. My father also told me today that he goes to visit his parents' grave 5 or 6 times a year. It makes me very sad to think that he will want the same thing and that, once he, my mom, my stepmom and GMF are gone, there will be no reason for any of us to come back here anymore and no one will visit him. I am not, as we all know, myself a spiritual person. But I would feel bad not honoring his wishes. Who knows. Maybe I will want to come every couple years or so. Is this really my life? | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3810 Registered: 5-2001 |
Both sets of my grandparents are buried right across the street from each other (far out in LI, not close to my parents' house), one set in the Jewish cemetary and the other at the Italian/Catholic one. (Totally coincidentally.) My parents do go several times a year to visit as well. My father-in-law also goes to visit his mom on mother's day and throughout the year. I have never really felt a need to visit myself, feeling like you I suppose. Do you think it's just tradition they're following? Also like you I have not followed the spiritual or religious path(s) of my parents...I wonder if the two are connected at all. I do think about the loved ones I've lost often and don't feel the need to visit a gravestone just to cry. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2212 Registered: 9-2003 |
For me, I know that the geographic dispersion makes a difference. When I was a kid, even though we had moved to NJ, away from Kingston, NY (my father's home town) and Berlin, NH (my mother's) on "decoration" day we always made the circuit to the cemetary (next to the church), especially to put flowers on the graves of male relatives who'd died in WWII or WWI. We used also to do something similar on Mother's Day. It was a big deal to actually go to their grave. Now, my father's ashes are scattered (well, sunk by now) over the resevoir and mountains around Woodstock/Lake Hill (his favorite place and more or less where his grandparents farm was. My mother is buried in NH. Haven't been back to either since they died, 8-9 years ago. People used not to move so far from "home," where home=family. Work didn't take them away, or it wasn't a value to seek it. Now it is, and ties seem looser. So, too, those kinds of traditions, however rote. At least in my family. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2213 Registered: 9-2003 |
Duh, and on your thought regarding your father's wishes: I'd do it. I felt pretty at peace with myself, as did my sister, when I/we got my dad's ashes scattered per his request, and our mom buried and seen off (Russian Orthodox service) per hers, and buried next to her father. And, like you said, you never know what you might do in the future. I've already know since forever that Curt wants to be buried (assuming he before me) in the veterans cemetary in DE, even though it's right alongside I-95 practically. Actually, he wants Arlington but I don't think they do that anymore, as readily, just for an "ordinary" vet. Personally, I hope I don't have to see to it. Much rather we both fall off a cruise ship at 85 or so having drunk too much champagne, simultaneous heart attacks. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1648 Registered: 8-2003  |
I agree with Cynicalgirl. Respecting his wishes doesn't mean you need to drive to OH to visit him. It just means he has the "send off" he desires. I actually do visit with my dad whenever I am in FL, at least once a year, usually twice. I suspect when my mom passes away I won't have much reason to visit, even though that's where they will both be. I can't see getting on a plane to visit a bunch of graves (although my mom's parents are in the same cemetary, so it would be like a big ol' family reunion) | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5585 Registered: 12-2001  |
I enjoy (odd choice of word) visiting my fathers grave in Vermont. But we are fortunate that he is buried near our home up there. So when we go up in the summer it is a reflective mile and a half walk up to the cemetary. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2898 Registered: 9-2003 |
Greenetree - Does you father really expect you to go to Ohio a few times a year to "visit"? Was that what he was requesting by tell you he visits his parents? I find that people who spend time in cemetaries do it because THEY have a need. I've never needed to sit by my Dad's grave (which is in MD) to feel close to him. My mom lives in AZ but has made all the arrangements (except paying for the airfare) to have her body shipped to MD and planted next to my dad because she doesn't want him to be alone. ok.. seems odd to me given that he's been "alone" for the last 12 years that she's been in AZ - but it's her thing so we'll do it. But I don't anticipate going for visits. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 6919 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have never felt the need to visit either of my parents' graves. I can visit with them any time I want to just by sitting back quietly and feeling their presence. Visiting a deceased loved one's grave shouldn't be a rote obligation. It should be something you do because it brings you closer to the departed. Whatever you choose, choose it for yourself not because the deceased asked you to remember them in a certain way. | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1025 Registered: 5-2003 |
My parents are buried in one of those hideously ugly and depressing cemetaries on Long Island. Going there, seeing that drab ugliness, just makes me sad, and angry. My grandfather wanted to buy a piece of America for his family, so he bought a big plot in that cemetary. There are something like 16 graves in the plot and half of them are now filled. My parents wanted to be buried there, so I did what they wanted, but I absolutely don't want to spend eternity in such a dreary spot, and I wouldn't want my children to have to "visit" me there. When my mother died, I asked the rabbi why Jewish cemetaries are so ugly--theres's not even a flower there--and he really couldn't give me any explanation. I used to have a fantasy of hiring a crop duster to fly over the place, releasing millions of flower seeds. Grandpa would have done better to buy a beach house. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2216 Registered: 9-2003 |
Other than the churchyard cemeteries some of my Dad's family are in -- which are pretty nice in smaller towns -- the one cemetery I've visited that was really evocative was Gettysburg. You may not know it -- I didn't -- but in Pennsylvania, any veteran can be buried in Gettysburg. When you got there, you see the civil war dead, but also the graves of veterans of WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam and our most recent wars and conflicts. It's a beautiful place, many trees and it sure gets you thinking. Those bald, tract-like cemeteries do seem rather awful. I think I'd rather be cremated and scattered soemwhere than that. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6561 Registered: 5-2001 |
What a strange conversation to be having. Don't get me wrong; I will totally honor my gather's wishes. That was never in question. And he wasn't guilting me or saying he expected me to go several times a year. I had said "who visits grave sights? Do you actually go see Grandma and Grandpa"? That's when he told me that he goes often. I'm just sad because he obviously feels it's important because he goes to see his own parents but none of us will be here to do it for him. My father is a wonderful man who sometimes does bizarre things. He wants to be helpful, so he & his wife told me that, when the time comes, we can have Shiva at their house. Thanks, Daddy. That's very sweet. First I have to figure out how to get her to her brachyotomy on Thursday, then we'll figure out the burial details. He really does mean well. I have to laugh at it; we don't call him The Planner for nothing. Duncan, I think that it is cool that you have a meaningful place to go and visit. I have never been one to think that there has to be a set "place" but after this weekend's discussions, I wouldn't mind if there was a meaningful one nearby. I always think of my mom (even before all this) when I am in my garden because we share that passion. I spoke with the Rabbi about the Yartzeit name plate yesterday; $300 and it's a done deal. I mailed the check this morning. I talked to mom & she said "Do you think the oncologist wants to wait two weeks to see me because he doesn't think that chemo will do any good"? I said that I thought it was because he had to make sure that the pneumonia is gone, although he is worried about her getting sick from chemo. She keeps reminding me (herself?) that she didn't get sick on the last chemo. In the meantime, Normal Guy is there and we are both truly concerned about her being there alone. I talked about it with her and she told me that he talked to her about it, too. The thing is that she doesn't need nursing care but is too weak to cook or do a lot. I think that she is trying to prove something because she is insisting on taking the cat to the vet by herself today (second opinion on the tooth removal). When I told her that I was coming back next week to see the oncologist with her about next steps, she got almost panicked and said "you don't have to". That's when she told me that she told Normal Bro that she doesn't want to come here or go to Chicago. I think she is afraid of what the doctor might say and she doesn't want me to know so that no one will want her to move. There is no easy answer to this and it is breaking my heart. Normal Bro and I even discussed last night who could most aford to take an unpaid leave; I am standing my ground on considering her moving in with one of us as a last option. If we can find a way and it's going to be the end, I want her to be able to do it on her terms. What to do with GMF is a whole 'nuther ball of wax and I just can't even consider it right now. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2221 Registered: 9-2003 |
Let her eat cake? GMF that is. Is meals on wheels an option? Also, home health aid that just makes food, buys food and helps with that stuff? We did that with my parents, and a friend whose dad is having chemo is doing same. Yeah, going on about cemeteries and such just sort of rolled, didn't it? Glad you got the Yartzeit thing done; sounds a very good thing. I, unfortunately, am a planner, too. I would worry about something dopey like your Dad did just cuz that's what I know how to do. Trying to read docs stinks. At the moment, I am trying not to. First of all,they don't like it and can't always tell you what's going on in the morass that is their thought process. For me, it gets a little male/female, too, where I want the whole "he goes/she goes" version and he just wants to say "It's fine." Next Tue is a full press round of PETs, CATs, SCATs and what-not all designed to see little cancer hot spots. I just spent 3 days deliberately not asking Curt about food consumption, weight etc. cuz I'm tired of asking and micromanaging. I think I'm hoping it's like a "watched pot never boils" or something. I am resigned to the fact that I cannot influence a positive outcome on those fronts. As Tom Petty said, "Wai-ai-ting is the hardest par-ar-t..." and that's about what I have to do. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2230 Registered: 9-2003 |
Fresh from the solipsistic front: Pisssy day. No good reason. One of the onco nurses was too nice today whilst I was scheduling a follow up, a week later for results on the above. She paid me a compliment, it won't come out right, but it was something like "You're a really excellent caregiver. In another life, you'd have been a nurse." She's pretty stern of demeanor, so it meant something but it hit me wrong. I don't wanna be part of the Sisterhood of the Travelling Cancer. Just poopy. Thinking about death. Missing a person who's still here. Curt's tired, his sides hurt. Could be the untreated rotator cuff issue. Could be little shiddy cancer metastheses. Who the fukk knows. We'll find out! This is not a plea for ideas. This is just a day when I'm hating all of this. Cried after dinner talking to him about it (kid out at play production). I say: "Do you think you're going to die this year, TELL ME!!" Says he: "No." Sez I: "What the FUKK do you know!!!"" Whah-ah-ah..." Then I wash the dishes and carry on. Some days all of the forebearance just builds. Tomorrow will be different. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6589 Registered: 5-2001 |
Something in the air, I guess. I am in one fukking foul mood myself. Poptart Guy is with mom today, tomorrow and Saturday. Did she eat? I ask. A couple slices of pizza. Someone is bringing dinner. I tell him that this is not enough, she will get dehydrated and end up in the hospital again. OK, he says. I'll tell her. I'm so tired. I'm about out of answers. I'm afraid of what will happen to her if she stays home and I'm afraid of what will happen to me if she comes here. I realize that I am taking it for granted that I will be able to work out the schedule if she's with me. I spoke with my headhunter today; are you sure this is the best time? he asked. Probably not, I reply. But being here is killing me. Today I composed an e-mail, which my boss had to approve before I sent it. What was the momentous topic that required such scrutinty? Attached please find the two instruments for the study. They contain similar items, but one is clinician driven and the other patient reported. Call me if you want to discuss endpoints and appropriate use. For real; she is totally into holding me hostage. I realize that the problem is not so much the inevitable; it is the stagnation, inaction, purgatory. I am a person of action; once I make a decision, I move. I am not good with limbo and unknowns. You have to have faith that things will happen and get taken care of, says TS. You will have to have enough faith for both of us, I reply. I've never been one for faith; I operate on adrenaline. I have the opportunity to explore a new career. It will mean unlocking the golden handcuffs. One the one hand, this Thing has taught me to be more open to new things because "someday" may never come. OTOH, do I want to start over at the age of 45 because something sounds like it would be fun? Much more research to do, so it's not like it's an eminent move. Cyn - I love what you said about the Traveling Cancer; I was thinking the other day about our earlier visions of making money at this. Could we be professional advocates? I really think so. I sure as hell have no desire to do this anymore, however. You are right about tomorrow. Maybe I'll go to bed to speed it along. Maybe it's just a barometric pressure thing.... | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2231 Registered: 9-2003 |
Man, if I were in a better looking state I'd say let's get dressed up, go to a bar, be complete cck or whatever teases, make them buy us drinks and then leave. Kinda like the Bette Midler song, "I feel like breakin' up somebody's home." Or Annie Lennox singing "Missionary Man." Or like Marianne Faithful singing "Why'dya do what you did?" I feel mean, angry, lethal and willing to mess within someone's mind. I just don't have the looks these days to back up the tactic. Time for beddy-by-y!! It's sick, but misery does love company. I feel oddly better hearing that you feel like dog, too (not that I wish it on you, but maybe you know what I mean).l | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2232 Registered: 9-2003 |
Yer boss is what an old British boyfriend would call "c-nt face fart featured." But you know that. (He was REALLY good looking, with an excellent accent, a complete player and a really lousy lay. Which is why I'm with cancer boy here. SLAP MY FACE AND STOP ME NOW!!!) | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6590 Registered: 5-2001 |
I do, indeed. I know exactly how you feel. It means that we are normal; if no one else felt this way, it might mean that we're crazy. And I may as well tease a rooster. If it's just lowing off steam (no pun intended), it doesn't really matter, does it? 'night. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2910 Registered: 9-2003 |
I'm reading this thread and know I should try to say something profound, but all I can muster is greenetree's 45? 45? Damn! I know I only met you once, but you don't look a day over 35 .. tops. And I always thought, gee.. she is so wise for one so young. ok... you're still wise.. and still young... just not so... ok, I'll stop now. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2234 Registered: 9-2003 |
Agree, SoOrLady. I thought she was in her early '30's. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 2910 Registered: 9-2001  |
All those drugs in youth preserved her? | ||
| BGS Citizen Username: Bgs Post Number: 533 Registered: 10-2003 |
Cyn and Greene-I hope that today is a better day for both of you and your loved ones. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6592 Registered: 5-2001 |
 Thanks! I needed that! As my father once said to me "you'll be happy about that acne when you are in your 40s; the oil preserves your skin". Well, I'm not so happy about the complexion, but I have to say that if my mom had to hand me down a big •••, it was the least she could do to give me the "aging well" thing. She doesn't look her age, either. Even at her sickest. ESL - this thread dovetails nicely with the one about legalizing pot. Yes, at the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact that I am pickled from the inside out. BTW - just caught my typo a couple threads above. Having left the "b" off the word "blowing", the comment about "no pun intended" is irrelevent. I do think that I will try to make Bunnie's tonight. And, in my insanity, I just made a dinner date with the Department Head from Holland at my old company for next week. After dinner, I will head to my brother's couch for my next day commute to OH. I also just e-mailed a Director at another pharma company about a position in her company. We don't know each other, but I send her my resume a couple times a year (long story). She'll either think I'm tenacious and see this as a good quality or consider me a stalker and get a restraining order. I'm working awfully hard to get another job in an industry that I'm tired of. I just keep reminding myself that nothing is real right now, that I can't consider my exhaustion with my job as necessarily a sign that I need to go to Clown School and that, when I have to, I will summon the energy to do it. Somehow. I have to confess that the most appealing thing about returning to my old company is that I left a top performer and it willbe easier than having to build myself up in a new place. Oh - one thing doesn't lie: my hands give me away. All that damned 70s sun - wrinkles and age spots. My hands scream "40+"!!!! | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2235 Registered: 9-2003 |
Mine, too. Age spots. I need...PORCELANA!!! My mom and I were/are oily, plus we're overweight. When I'm not quite so chub, and my hair is good, these stand me in good stead. One downside of becoming a mother late is your kid can be sensitive to whether or not your competitive with other moms. I have been coloring my hair for awhile, partly due to workplace ageism and partly not wanting look like AARP mom. Not wearing elastic waist pant helps, too -- though I do wear "mom" jeans. This is NOT a critique of how others handle this issue. Just what works for me. I fondly recall getting my RIF notice at my old job (7 years ago, at 45) and my boss asked what I needed. Said I: "Permission to come in at 10 every day during my last months so I can go to the gym. It's bad enough to be looking for work at 45 let alone being a fat-asced, tired looking 45 year old looking for work." How right I was about the ageism. I started working out, etc. and transformed myself into looking like 35, and got good job. I had looked for some months, and even with my 3.9 new MBA etc. I kept getting subtly not called back. Lost weight, deleted the grad year for undergrad, deleted some early jobs, and VOILA!!! | ||
| Debby Citizen Username: Debby Post Number: 2186 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey Guys - It's not the barometric pressure...it's down here, too. I swear I wake up tired. It get's better as the day goes on, and then I start my evening descent. But getting going in the morning is brutal. I start work again on Monday I work at a college and was off for intersession). I hope that being on a regular schedule and having outside commitments will be good for me. Either that, or it'll kill me. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6593 Registered: 5-2001 |
That which doesn't kill us.... I think that I would probably feel a lot less stressed; OK, a different kind of stress, if I actually enjoyed my job. So, I would expect that getting back on schedule will be good for you. Cyn - this is my fear, the age thing. I am setting up an informational interview for the Clown School gig; they love that I have a skill set that will transfer, but since I would be new to the field, I can't expect to earn my current salary. Another thing about us old people; we cost more. Ironically, aging is what sent me back to grad school. In 1996, I was only 35, but had a bachelor's degree and made as much as someone with a master's, two years out of school. I was getting interviews, but no offers. The master's opened those doors. Now I find myself in the same boat; I earn close to a PhD, but I don't have that particular piece of paper. And it makes no economic sense to go for it now. I started to leave my undergrad year off of my resume, but then I realize that my work experience goes back to 1985. How to handle that? Fortunately, I went to grad school late, so that graduation date says 1996. I guess at this point in my career, I could drop my first job, huh? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2237 Registered: 9-2003 |
That's exactly what I did. Dropped my 1978 to 1986 stuff. In one version, I dealt with them in a short paragraph called Related Prior Experience (no dates). You better believe the age thing matters, esp for women. Varies how much by field (creative, a lot; marketing, a lot). You are as old as you look, live and on resume. I am way too tired to argue fairness; complete bore, and impractical. If frogs had wings and all that. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1664 Registered: 8-2003 |
cynicalgirl - what are "mom jeans"? | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6595 Registered: 5-2001 |
A few years ago, a single-mom friend had to leave the country on business and left her then 6 & 9 y/o with us. Well, she didn't just leave them; we offered. Anywho.... They both went to Tuscan and there was a family dance that week. The kids said that they wanted to go, so we said OK. At dinner that night, the 9 y/o seemed kind of nervous about the dance. She kept looking at me & clearly had something on her mind. I, of course, thought it had to do with her "family" being two women stand-in parents. Not so. She finally looked at me and said "Is that what you are wearing"? I don't remember what I had on, but I asked her if she wanted me to change. Uh-huh. I put on jeans and a sweater and asked her if I now looked like the other moms. She said "yes" and off we all went. I just got an e-mail from the Temple, telling me that there is already a Yartzeit plaque for my mom on the wall. Some kind person must have had it put up without her knowing about it. She was very happy when I called. She sounds so weak and tired, but there is nothing I can do about it. I, myself, am off to the doc in awhile. I am giving in to the sinus infection gods and will get an antibiotic. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2238 Registered: 9-2003 |
Mom jeans are blue jeans that come up to the waist, especially if any elastic inset in the back waist and/or front pleats. Big pockets on the butt accentuating the big butt. Non-mom jeans are lower waisted, no pleats, tighter and definitely not highwater. This was well-illustrated on a recent TV show sponsored by Glamour Magazine regarding "Do's and Don'ts." Ask me about "muffin top." There is no more honest fashion critic (in response to the question "How do I look?") than a 9-13 year old girl. Thereafter they don't seem to care, and prior they just want you to be comfy feeling. They never want you to dress too young, nor too old, nor to look better than they do (doesn't come up much). | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3827 Registered: 5-2001 |
Pippi, Mom jeans are -high waisted tapered leg jeans, often seen worn with -sweatshirts (usually from Dinsey or similar) or -those tacky sweaters (with reindeer or hearts or jewels) -and white sneakers I saw this reference on an SNL skit a few months ago and it is really funny. And yes, I do often see them still worn (think Gap jeans circa 1992 or earlier). | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2239 Registered: 9-2003 |
Anybody old enough to remember Gilda and Larraine Newman's SNL skit regaring Jordache jeans? 'Course they called them something else... | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3828 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh, and my 7 year old LOVES to tell me my butt looks big in certain jeans. (But then she'll also tell me I'm perfectly skinny.) | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1668 Registered: 8-2003 |
thanks for the crash course, guys! I presume mom jeans are worn with "comfortable" shoes?  | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3829 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yes, see, I wrote white sneakers...think circa 80's reebok or possibly keds or maybe even the slip on canvas sneakers sold at Kmart... | ||
| buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 3596 Registered: 5-2001  |
Hi! Sorry to barge in here, but you can see 'mom jeans' here. It is pretty funny.... http://www.devilducky.com/media/30138/ |
