| Author | Message | ||
     Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11230 Registered: 5-2001 |
The regulations say that you have to be 25 feet from the door, any door. At someplace such as St. James Gate that pretty much means you have to go to the park to smoke.  | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7256 Registered: 5-2001  |
I don't know much about the 25 foot rule, but if you can't smoke within 25 feet of a place that doesn't allow smoking, Cent & Samurai are at least near parking lots or are across the street from businesses that are closed when you'd be dining. I can't see that anyone would actually hassle you as long as you aren't standing right in the doorway. To be sure, there are going to be people who will yell if they smell the smoke or are down wind. I'd just smile at them and offer them a cigarette. It is going to take people time to realize that they are not in any danger of second hand smoke if they walk near it outside. And yes, nothing is smellier than old smoke on clothes, but they don't have to stop and chat or sit near you. Hell, with my mom's smoking habits, I was a champion at developing coping mechanisms to avoid the smell. Non-smokers will gloat for awhile and then calm down and adapt, IMHO. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2623 Registered: 9-2003  |
Thanks, Bob, for the update. Good to know as I'm not much in the mood to be chastised on the street. Like I said, we mostly find that place too crowded and too slow of service for our preferences. We're frequent flyers with Cent'anni, budget permitting. We like the diners, and are accustomed to not smoking there. Also, the Outback Steakhouse, Applebees. Sometimes, Toro Loco. Haven't branched out much beyond that, on a regular basis, as of a year and a half ago. I will alert him to this, so that when we go downtown he won't be surprised. Grouse he will, but c'est la vie. I'm the one more likely to bow to public pressure -- he's stubborn as all get out and doesn't much care what others think. I'm sure that when/if he starts feeling better and like he has a life ahead of him, we'll retake up the challenge of quitting but I don't see it in next few months. Source of much friction in my house, and while I appreciate the personal health benefits, not the biggest challenge on our plate at present. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2368 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cyn, according to what I know and what someone else posted on another thread, the 25 foot rule is part of proposed regulations, subject to change, and will not be final for several months. So at this point Curt and you can just step outside and if you run into any problems I'll defend you (with a reduced fee of course). | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 22939 Registered: 6-2001  |
Bob, I do not believe that law is enforceable. They announced the "25-foot" rule last Wednesday and by Thursday had to admit that since it is not in the original legislation it cannot be enforced. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7260 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bars and restaurants would be smart if they put a bench and one of those outdoor ashtrays outside, away from their entrance way. It would make everyone happier and keep the butts off the sidewalk. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2624 Registered: 9-2003 |
wendy and bets: Who's the "they?" State legislators? Maplewood Township? Do you know whether it's proposed that there be signage to this effect? Really, for me it's mostly about not wanting to flout a legit law. Personally, we'll probably just avoid eating anywhere on Maplewood Ave as that will be where the comments will most likely be thickest. Just don't want to subject Cent'anni I would think less so, and on a side street. *sigh* It's always something! Mostly I'm glad he's been well enough (though not this past week due to the blockage) to want to go out to eat. Just don't want it fraught with issues.... | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2625 Registered: 9-2003 |
agree, greenetree. I try to be a tidy smoker. Nothing (short of quitting) that will make me not be stinky to others, but I at least try not to litter. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7261 Registered: 5-2001 |
Maybe some people who are on their major high horses about this issue (on one side or the other) will read this blog and think about how they treat people out on the street. Thread drift: when I see people screaming at or being rude to strangers around town, I often wonder if they would behave that way if the screamer were an MOL regular who was screaming (unbeknownst to them) at another regular MOLer. Now, we need to work on a law against farting in public places. Talk about subjecting people to offensive odors.... | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2626 Registered: 9-2003 |
I am avoiding to posting anything in the threads to which you refer, though I am reading them. I do think that private clubs and "cigar bars" should be permitted to allow smoking if they so choose (just as in dry parts of Oklahoma, private clubs can provide alcohol). Yes, for right now I would join one, especially if they had a dining room and offered steak and seafood. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7263 Registered: 5-2001 |
I know that it makes no sense, but I love the smell of pipe tobacco. It reminds me of my grandfather. GMF's husband was the most wonderful man. I think that pipe smoking should be allowed in bars.  | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7268 Registered: 5-2001 |
I've reread some of my recent posts (mostly on other threads) and the thing that I can't get out of my mind is: when did I stop being able to spell correctly? Random thought - I gave Reingold lots of •••• last year for forgetting my B-day. I wonder if he made a note & will remember this year? Hint: less than 30 days.  | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2627 Registered: 9-2003 |
Mine, too... | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13720 Registered: 1-2003  |
Noted. Alarms scheduled. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2628 Registered: 9-2003 |
I noticed yours, greenetree, when rereading about half the blog this weekend. You wanna know what I was thinking? If we had the right agent, we have it all going on. This blog just screams Oprah opportunity, a modern epistolary, reality book. It hits many sweet spots. You and I are different in certain appealing to media ways. For you it's your mother, for me my husband. Otheres have come in from time to time with their own story, and sheltered here. We both have workplace issues, we both loathe cant and trite truisms. What we need, given we're quite busy AND don't know the ropes, is the right kind of agent to make a book deal and do promotion. Cuts to all based on number of posts! For right now, I'm tired. Much interior painting this weekend. Keeps me busy. I realized that I seem to take on one project per 3 month Curt cycle; every 3 months it's CAT/PET jamboree to check for cancer. Projects are my way of coping. I also love the smell of pipe tobacco, though hate smoking pipes. In my heyday I was known to smoke the occasional cigar. I will no doubt deal with the cigarette beast at some point, but as with any addiction, it will need to be for myself and myself alone. Personally, I've never found myself able to change any habit, etc. for the sake of others (you can get po'ed at them, and then pffftt!!! there goes your resolve). I have worked multiple jobs to fund things I really wanted. Gone to school at night after work and child. I have at 3 different adult intervals lost 45 lbs and exercized myself into a state of unsurpassed deliciousness. But! Could never do iany of those things because someone told me I "needed" to. Has to come from within. Have a really strong streak regarding being "bought" --- personally hate being praised for doing any of those things, as if I magically did them to belong to the really special cool club or similar. Guess that's why the call me cynical girl. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 4285 Registered: 5-2001 |
Gtree, is it May 19th? For some reason that date sticks out in my mind. Oh forget it, that would be more than 30 days, but I must be warm. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7273 Registered: 5-2001 |
VIG - not too bad. 11th. Cyn, we need a fairy godmother. The kind whose day job is editor/book agent. Although, my big fear of an Oprah moment is that she would give out the Blog address and it would get back to GMF. Mom & I were talking last night. Her cousin died of lung cancer the other day after 10 years. Somehow, GMF's name came up at the funeral (which neither mom nor GMF attended). GMF alienated her husband's (mom's dad) entire side of the family a long time ago. A well-meaning cousin called mom to fill her in. Personally, not the choice I would have made. But, whatever. It's led to a massive resurrection of mom's hostility towards GMF. Anyway, all the family stuff came up and it ended with mom saying "I don't know which one of us is going to die first, but I don't think it will happen without me telling her every thing that I think of her". Me: So, does that mean if you do die first, I don't really have to take care of her? Mom: Let me think about that one. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2629 Registered: 9-2003 |
Reasonably good article, and review of a book, on the special problems of being a (gr-r-r-) caregiver to your parent when your relationship to that parent is not so hot. Today's Star Ledger: Strained Compassion: What happens when children have to care for bad parents. http://www.nj.com/living/ledger/index.ssf?/base/living-0/1145335802280300.xml&co ll=1 Roberta Satow, a New York psychoanalyst and author of "Doing the Right Thing: Taking Care of Your Elderly Parents Even If They Didn't Take Care of You" (Tarcher/Penguin, $14.95, paperback). Satow will be speaking on the topic Sunday in Overlook Hospital's Wallace Auditorium in Summit. I experienced that with my mother, a lot. Take a lot of work and a special toll to look after someone who never much looked after you. If anyone finds themselves in that place, the book might be worth checking out. Greenetree, your ma prolly had that prob with GMF. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7276 Registered: 5-2001 |
Interesting article, Cyn. One thing that strikes me is the assumption (not just in the article, but everywhere in our society) that no matter what, the child must take care of the parent. Is there no point at which an adult child should be able to walk away and say "I am not going to do this?" I had said to my mom many times early in her illness, "if you treated me the way she treats you, I wouldn't be here now." She always said "yes you would be, because you'd do the right thing?" That's what I don't get - why is it automatically "the right thing"? My mother stayed in OH after we were all out of school and living elsewhere because her mother didn't have anyone else. I know that that's my mom's crap and that it was a convenient excuse not to make a big, scary move. But most of her really believed that. My grandmother is a prime example of someone who doesn't really need the help. She has enough money to pay someone to take her to her appointments; she has friends and a social life when she's up to it. She has good health and prescription insurance. She cooks for herself, bathes, dresses, etc. She is not demented or a danger to herself. So, what exactly is the "need" here other than familial companionship? I honestly have no intention of flying in once a month to check up on her after my mother is gone. She can call me anytime; I will call someone to help her if she needs it. I will call her lawyers, bank, doctors, etc. if there are questions or things to be signed, etc. There's not much I can do from here in an emergency. Let's take a more extreme example of a parent who was downright abusive and hurtful to their child. When that parent is elderly and needs help, is the child really obligated to step in? I really do struggle with this. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2631 Registered: 9-2003 |
My mother fit the latter scenario, abusive and hurtful. By society's norms, she now gets a free pass because she was a schizophrenic (like a kid gives a damm). What was fortunate was that when my dad was alive, we did the arrangements to get them both into assisted living. That right there took care of meals, cleaning, doc appointment issues as all of that was covered. When my dad died, mom remained there. My point? I don't think the caregiving crud has to be in whatever format/schedule the parent wants, especially if it imposes a huge toll on the kid. I felt obliged -- with my sister -- to see that she was in a suitable environment where her needs were met. Suitable by our lights, not hers. Felt no obligation to maintain her in her house. That about did my sister and I in when our parents were still in their house given the amount of overhead the house itself created, and meal prep, and cleaning. On top of all of the medical and familial needs. Because I did soften somewhat over time (and she became more like an elderly retarded person with scarcely any memory of our youth) I was able to "do for her" in some ways I couldn't have had she still been herself. I was able to buy the obligatory holiday cards, turn up with an acceptable present, and visit here and there. She was only 6 miles from me so it wasn't taxing in that way. Had she lived further away, I would not have visited that often. Were I you, I'd probably make sure the old bat was in a suitable facility, and that the lawyers/bank/docs were doing their job. I would do no more than that. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2967 Registered: 9-2002  |
Ok I just had to post this: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/47470 | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2637 Registered: 9-2003 |
That is HYSTERICAL!!! Thanks... | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7291 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey. I would never boil a gerbil. And I never called my mother after having inappropriate sex.  | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2639 Registered: 9-2003 |
That link is too timely. My daughter and I have been having head-to-head holler fests a lot lately. I won the laundry battle (she does her own) but she has been obstreperous, disrespectful, door slamming, demanding, ungrateful and similar for at least a week. And now, I get a call from her Spanish teacher regarding some bad classroom behavior. Jeez. And the PET scan for tomorrow is postponed as the haven't got the "auth" as yet. Mind you, I planned this well ahead, and took tomorrow off, and then Friday to give me a long weekend to finish my painting. I'll live, but I hate it when these things get changed. You get so geared up (the 3 month cycle we're on). Sux. So, lookin' out the window, noticing the lovely spring evening. Pick up the kid from lacrosse practice a little later and try to consider how to address the behavior. Haven't wanted to until I had an approach that I would stick to, and sticking to things is not my strong suite right now with the unsettled backgroun issues. Not interested in more hollering, but equally not in the mood for stomping, etc. Grounding her punishes me (!). Perhaps true wisom will settle lightly 'round my psyche in the next hour. And then again, maybe not. I keep asking, but nobody can tell me whether there's a kibbutz for Protestant kids. I have a ver-ry likely candidate for same. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7312 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cyn - I sure wish that I had some wisdom or experience to share with you. Unfortunately, not a drop. But, I do remember my mom telling me that grounding me was far, far worse for her. Ya know, you may be on to something. Non-denominational kibbutzes. We'd make a fortune with the 11-14 y/os. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2640 Registered: 9-2003 |
So, how 'bout you start? Gotta spare room? Right now she hates me (wrote it in lipstick on her mirror). Tried talking nicely about the Spanish teacher thing and she went gonzo dramatic queen about how she was never good enough for me, and everybody hates him, etc. Yeah, yeah. Before anyone offers, yes she's a middle schooler. Yes she wants/doesn't want attention. Yes she's been through a lot in the last year. Don't make it easier on momma... | ||
| joy Citizen Username: Joy Post Number: 423 Registered: 5-2001  |
Re: taking care of bad parents - and is time when you walk away. I have walked away from my father. I have assisted my mother in whatever way I could to get my father qualified for Medicaid and into a nursing home. He has severe Parkinson's and mild dementia. He is also one of the most nasty SOB's to walk the planet. My siblings and I cannot recall one happy childhood memory with him. My mother - OTOH - any of us will bend over backward for. If my mother was't around, Yes - I would have walked away and not looked back. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2641 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hearing you, joy. Glad you guys were able to sort it out and not sacrifice yourself to "societal norms." I know it can be hard sometimes. Glad to hear you had one nice parent! | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2974 Registered: 9-2002 |
Cyn, obviously no experience with nasty teenagers except being one myself. Looking forward to it though as my 5 year old already exhibits the signs. Tom Reingold (who DOES have experience with it) has recommended some books that have helped me TREMENDOUSLY, and they seem like they would work for most ages. If you haven't read them you should try to. And when I am in a particularly frustrating period I will even re-read just to remind myself how to talk to her. I can lend you "Liberated Parents" if you want, just shoot me a PL. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380711346/sr=8-1/qid=1145530385/ref=pd_bbs_1/0 02-8452846-7850428?%5Fencoding=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380811960/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/002-8452846-78504 28?%5Fencoding=UTF8 | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3381 Registered: 5-2001 |
Re the teenaged daughter(s) - No matter how nasty she is, try to find at least one occasion or time during each day to tell her that you love her (and try to get those hugs in.) I realized at some point that I had been delinquent in that regard and then made a resolution to myself about it awhile back and I think that I see some results. (Maybe it's just wishful thinking.) Recently I've even gotten "I love you, too" back ... sometimes. By the way, for us at least, 7th grade was THE WORST. Mine is in 9th now and things do seem to be improving, but the younger sister will be in 6th in the fall, so I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop there. I wasn't so successful on the laundry front, though. I'm going to have to raise that one again at some point. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2643 Registered: 9-2003 |
Wendyn, I just "one-click" ordered it! Last night (after the discussion) we watched "Clean House" together. Usually we can call a truce/get along while watching these crazy home decor shows. Sorta did. Then I helped her blow drow here endless hair (normally something I'd not be up for at 10:00). We'll so he today goes. sac, I would have to agree that things are worse than they were when she was in 6th. Maybe it is that between-ness, writ large (no longer elementary school kid, not really a teenager). And, like I said, I'm necessarily not my best self with all the rest of this on my plate. Some times I'm just mentally exhausted (caregiver, mother and main parent to 7th grader). | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3382 Registered: 5-2001 |
Our children certainly don't pick "convenient" times in our lives to be difficult, do they? I'm with you on that although my other issues pale in comparison to yours, I think. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7313 Registered: 5-2001 |
This may be too touchy-feely for her, but are there any kind of support groups for kids with sick parents? A place where she can talk about how mad and scared she is in addition to being an obnoxious tween? I remember a friend telling me about a program her then-seventh grader was in in Livingston for kids with divorced parents. She was getting remarried and her kids' dad had a new wife and baby; she thought it really made a difference. Maybe her school counselor knows of something? | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 1364 Registered: 3-2002 |
Maybe this is too hard-azz, but I have threatened to remove my 8 yo's door if he slammed it (again)...have not had to follow through YET... Ugh - once a few years ago during a particularly bad (very rare) argument with my mother she said "if I get sick & your Dad isn't around I know you won't take me in"...and I couldn't tell her she was wrong - she'd put her finger on it. It was a harsh moment for both of us...the whole idea is just horrible to imagine...but it sure was a moment of clarity...how's that for bucking societal niceties & norms? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2644 Registered: 9-2003 |
She does talk to him, and really likes that. Also her female art teacher. I had offered such groups to her, and she pretty much said "no way." She does talk to her friends some, but a thing to remember here is that the last thing most middle schoolers want to feel is different in any way from the norm. They are very cliqueish, and are sometimes reluctant to talk to kids outside of their own grade. She prefers to talk to her friends as opposed to be put together with kids where "the crisis" is the only thing she has in common. I guess I can relate to that, even for myself.. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13755 Registered: 1-2003 |
Cyn, I have found our MMS guidance counselor to be a huge help, and we have needed it. He is very available. He takes in a lot and makes use of it all. We have used him as advisor and confidant, and he has given us great references for counselors beyond the school. He would know about kid groups, but then again, your kid probably won't go for it. On the other hand, despite the fact that my middle schooler said she wouldn't talk to the therapist or the family therapist, she's talking up a storm to both. We tell the school guidance counselor as much as we can, which ends up being very useful. Use yours! And yeah, read the Faber and Mazlish book. For what it's worth, over the last two years, I have learned how to give up yelling. I'm firmer than I have ever been, but I just don't yell any more. One benefit for us is that the kids see I'm serious, because my decisions don't appear to come from out of control emotions. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 4291 Registered: 5-2001 |
How Tom? I would like to stop yelling, especially because I see how it hurts my kids' feelings and it doesn't really do any good. But, it's hard to change 36 years of habits. (And I'm sure I've been yelling since birth.) | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13762 Registered: 1-2003 |
Generally, it involves saying that if the behavior doesn't cease immediately and if I don't get an apology for it, there will be a consequence. Often, there has to be restitution, too. For instance, if they break something, they have to fix it or pay for it. Consequences usually consist of taking away things that are most important to them. Lately, it's internet access or spending time with their friends. If you haven't read the Faber and Mazlish books, you are working too hard. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 4293 Registered: 5-2001 |
Could you tell me the name of the book (again)? I'm definitely working too hard! | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2981 Registered: 9-2002 |
Two by the same authors. They cover similar ground but I think both are useful. Also check out the one they have on sibling rivalry, it is great too. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380711346/sr=8-1/qid=1145530385/ref=pd_bbs_1/0 02-8452846-7850428?%5Fencoding=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380811960/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/002-8452846-78504 28?%5Fencoding=UTF8 If you want to borrow the Liberated Parents one send me a PL and I can drop it off. They are really helping me to stop yelling and speak more rationally. Not that I don't yell anymore, but it takes a lot longer to get me to that point. |
