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Buffalojoe
| | Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2001 - 1:04 am: |     |
I think it was a herd mentality thing -- one person took advantage of my having to maneuver to make my way back into the left-turn lane (they had all been sitting at the light and saw the ambulance and me moving out of the way) and the others blindly followed. At least two cars ran the red light, and that is a generous estimate (generous toward the third, fourth, etc. drivers, I mean).
I am well aware, as I've said before, that these small things aren't major human-rights issues, but they are disheartening and frustrating to me. I am also well aware that I have an idealized idea of what a "community" should be (if I *really* let the fantasies fly, I get into rolling hills and flowered fields full of people of all races and religions holding hands and dancing in the dappled sunlight) and that involves generosity, good will, kindness and thoughtfulness all around. Very la-la, I know, but here you have it -- I was raised by the original bleeding-heart liberal social-worker, grew up listening to "Free to Be You & Me" (remember that fabulous album from the early 70's?) and singing kumbaya at folk festivals to bad acoustic guitar. Thank God I had the sarcastic, republican, golf-playing, bloody-mary drinking influence of my father to temper all that lovin', else I'd be a quivering mess. |
Dave
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 6:43 pm: | |
Buffalojoe, any face-to-face encounters since the Star-Ledger story hit?? :-) |
Buffalojoe
| | Posted on Friday, July 6, 2001 - 7:02 pm: | |
Not yet, Dave, but I'm waiting....
Just returned from two week vacation that ended with a grueling visit to Buffalo/Cleveland. Must go sleep now. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........ |
Buffalojoe
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 11:22 am: | |
Today, our subject will be "Legislating Aesthetics and the Death of Originality". So. A few days ago, I was speaking with my neighbor, and the talk turned to home improvememnts. Our houses were built in 1908, and some savagely terrible things have been done to them over the years. Like, someone plastered over our pocket doors between the dining room and living room!!
My neighbor mentioned that a few years ago, he was plannning on getting his house sided (vinyl), but decided not to, because he was informed by a few other homeowners on our street that it would not be acceptable aesthetically. On our street, there is a row of houses that were all built the same year and are exactly the same style (with minor differences), all these houses are wood. And evidently will all stay wood, since the neighbors will gang up on anyone who wants to change that.
Now, putting aside my *personal* feelings about vinyl siding (it's kind of like a Microtel, in that it looks pleasingly tidy and clean when it is new, but turns pretty seedy when it is old), I was appalled that the neighborhood in essence told this guy that he can't side his house without causing bad feelings in the neighborhod! It's downright unAmerican! So, when we get right down to it, what are the anti-siding people afraid of? That *their* houses will look less "authentic" next to a sided house? That they'll be judged less economically sound by the presence of a sided house on their street? That their tender aesthetic sensibilities will be offended on a daily basis? I'm of the opinion that if I want to paint my house plaid, I should be able to. Shouldn't we seek out and celebrate the original, the offbeat, the strange? Or is it a case of "not in my neighborhood"? Are we destined to become a society of khakis and white t-shirts and sanitized corporate art? (OK, I'm exaggerating on purpose, but you get my point).
Discuss. |
Jimmurphy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 11:44 am: | |
BuffaloeJoe,
I think you answered your own question to some extent-
"Our houses were built in 1908, and some savagely terrible things have been done to them over the years. Like, someone plastered over our pocket doors between the dining room and living room!!"
How is "savaging" the siding different from "savaging" the pocket doors? Your neighbors probably feel the same way about vinyl siding as you do about the doors. By buying homes in a community whose housing stock has remained largely intact, aren't we "seeking out and celebrating the original" as the architect and builder originated it?
IMHO, finding a place to build a plaid house is pretty simple - finding an intact 1908 colonial in a beautiful community that you can afford is pretty difficult. |
Buffalojoe
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 11:53 am: | |
>How is "savaging" the siding different from "savaging" the pocket doors? Your
neighbors probably feel the same way about vinyl siding as you do about the
doors. By buying homes in a community whose housing stock has remained
largely intact, aren't we "seeking out and celebrating the original" as the
architect and builder originated it?
Yes, but the critical difference is that I am complaining about MY OWN house. I would never tell someone else that their aesthetics were not consistent with community standards. So, if I'm reading you correctly, you think it is OK for neighbors to have say in what other people do to or with their homes?!? |
Mem
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 12:30 pm: | |
Does anyone know what were they THINKING when they painted over all that molding? |
Jimmurphy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 2:40 pm: | |
-"Do you think it is OK for neighbors to have say in what other people do to or with their homes?!?"
In a word - yes. Not necessarily by vote or petition, but through community standards arrived at by consensus.
Again, just my opinion, but I think that it is an issue of respect for the values of the community. Maplewood and South Orange are popular places to live in large part because of the outstanding older housing stock. Much of the value of our properties is based upon the relatively consistent "look" of the community.
When an individual acts in disregard of community standards by painting the house plaid, he or she is disrespecting that community. His neighbor's property is likely reduced in value, and the "rights" of the individual property owner have infringed upon the rights of his neighbor.
Those "bad feelings" you referenced coming from the neighbors could be based upon more than the fact that they don't like the look of your house, they could be because you just impacted the potential resale value of their property. It is only your house for the period that you own it - the community must deal with it as long as it is there.
Question - how do you feel about zoning?
And Mem: THEY must have bought stock in companies that produce paint stripper, steel wool, and mineral spirits  |
Mem
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 3:07 pm: | |
And red wine. |
Joancrystal
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 7:21 pm: | |
Buffalojoe:
Be glad you and your neighbors still have the freedom to ponder the questions of vinyl siding and plaid paint jobs. By next year your all-of-a-kind street may find itself designated an historic district. |
Kriss
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 11:17 pm: | |
Jim,
"In a word - yes. Not necessarily by vote or petition, but through community standards arrived at by consensus."
And that's called Zoning. If the folks in Maplewood/S.O. don't want siding, zone it out. Don't gang up on someone who wants to put the stuff on his house. Maybe that family doesn't want the hassle or the expense of periodic paint-jobs.
I live next door to a beautiful old house which happens to have siding. It's not what I would choose for my own, but I don't think it detracts from the prettiness of my neighborhood. |
Kriss
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 12:41 am: | |
Jim,
As I read your post again, I realized that at the end you did mention zoning - so of course I wasn't telling you anything you didn't already know. Mea culpa. Wasn't trying to be an a-hole.
Communities can have zoning restrictions which allow or disallow various improvements upon a home - siding being one. My point was that a person who wants to improve his or her property in a certain way, and that way is not restricted by law, should be allowed to do so.
If neighbors would find it unpleasing, then if they want to voice their opinions, that is their right. Or, they can change the law. But I don't think that an edict can be issued by a neighborhood "consensus" to a single neighbor, who would like to do something legal with his or her property. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 8:20 am: | |
Kriss -- are you sure it's your neighbors right to voice their opinions to you? I would think not, and I certainly wouldn't allow mine to exercise their rights if they were merely pointing out their displeasure with my decorating choices. |
Jimmurphy
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 9:39 am: | |
Kriss,
I agree. Let me point out that I would never, NEVER give a neighbor the cold shoulder or treat them differently based upon the fact that they vinyl-sided their house or painted it plaid. NEVER.
However, what steams me is the notion that we as individuals can do whatever we want in the name of freedom (because after all, it's downright un-American to think otherwise), even if exercising that freedom has significant negative consequences on others, like in lowering others' property values or ruining the environment.
My point in bringing up zoning was to illustrate the fact that those who trumpet property rights often don't realize that their view is not all-encompassing. I can't buy the house next to BuffaloeJoe and open a gas station or a chemical manufacturing facility (I presume it's zoned residential) because the community values the residential character, health, and property values of the community. That certainty of use serves to maintain her property value (and I presume that she likes it that way).
Not allowing plaid vinyl siding by ordinance would help serve the same function.
Ditto on urban sprawl, and inconsiderate cell-phone users, and indoor smokers, and SUVs, and...
Out-on-a-limb,
Jim
- (Did I say SUVs?) Incoming... |
Kathy
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 12:41 pm: | |
I don't see anything wrong with suggesting to a neighbor that the vinyl siding that s/he is considering installing would be incompatible with the character of the neighborhood. You can't forbid them to put it on (yet), but some people just need to be educated on the alternatives. I myself once told a neighbor that putting aluminum siding over his shingles would be a big mistake. Fortunately he didn't do it, but of course he didn't have to listen to me.
Someone in my neighborhood painted their trim bubble-gum pink. I'm sure they were thinking "hip and funky", but the neighbors thought "cheap and tacky". I don't know who (if anyone) said what to whom, but the trim is now tan. |
Kriss
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 2:11 pm: | |
Njjoseph,
I am absolutely sure that it is everyone's right to voice their opinion to anyone about anything. Whether or not that is obnoxious is another story.
Jim,
Yes, I understand what you are saying. Sorry to be redundant, but what keeps people from doing things on their property that would significantly detract from the value of a neighbor's property is zoning laws, not dissaproving buttinskis. I don't think that there are many people who oppose reasonable zoning (i.e., no gas stations in the midst of residential homes), although in light of the initial posts on this subject, I too am curious about Buffalojoe's view on this. |
Buffalojoe
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 3:34 pm: | |
I can certainly present my views WRT to the examples given here. There is a difference between zoning laws that protect the health of residents (i.e. no chemical factories on residential streets) and those that legislate aesthetic concerns. I am violently opposed to any zoning based on aesthetics. I really think the whole property value argument is a straw-man - - an non-issue peole use to legislate "good taste". Houses in my neighborhood are selling usually within a half day of being listed, and usually well over list price. A plaid house is not going to stop someone from purchasing, or drive the price down. Heck, maybe you'd get someone like me buying, who would think "Cool, those people in the plaid house must be fun!"
What really astounds me about most of the replies here is the supreme arrogance of people who actually believe, fully & comlpetely, that THEY are the arbitors of good taste. That we all know pink trim is "cheap and tacky", there is no room for disagreement. Wonder what y'all would make of my collection of monkey-paintings? Ask yourselves this: Could it be possible that there is someone out there who feels strongly that your beige-and white house is cheap & tacky looking? And what is wrong with cheap and tacky anyway? Sometimes the values of this community sadden me.
Yesterday, I was walking in Memorial park, and passed two moms sitting on a bench while their 10 year old daughters played nearby. I overheard their kids talking, and this is what they said:
Girl One: I am a RICH girl!
Girl Two: I am richer than you!
Girl One: I'm rich and you are poor so that means you have to DIE!"
OK, so it was just kids playing make-believe. But, I can't remember even being aware of rich/poor when I was that age (probably because we were all poor). Which brings us back to the Taste Police. I guess, ultimately, this is all about appearing affluent, isn't it? |
Dave
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 3:43 pm: | |
They must be immitating someone, which is scary. |
Dave
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 3:48 pm: | |
Mind if I share something I like?
"Ourobouric Acid" painted by Howard Rheingold |
Buffalojoe
| | Posted on Thursday, August 2, 2001 - 3:52 pm: | |
That *so* needs to be airbrushed onto the back window of someone's VW bus! |
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