| Author | Message | ||
     SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2498 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hey - just go with it. Tell her that she is a miserable, self-centered, woman and it's time that she realized that the world - especially your world, does not revolve around her wants and whims. The fact that she has a child who is seriously ill should be factored in her thoughts in some manner and the most important thing in her life should not be where she is going next and what she's going to wear. (I'll let you know how this works when I speak to MF-inlaw later today  ) | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2499 Registered: 9-2003 |
ok, so maybe you should follow Joan's advice instead.  | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5055 Registered: 5-2001  |
Nah - I like yours better. Without going into the whole psycho-babble thing, this is classic GMF behavior. She always told me that I was her favorite, and boy, she wasn't subtle. I've spent 30+ years watching her treat my mom & Pop Tart Guy like doo-doo. Mom's crime was taking her husband's attention away and Pop Tart's crime was being the eldest male; reminds her of my father. Who, for whatever reason and beyond the normal ex-son-in-law crap, is the devil incarnate. I'm talking total psycho behavior here. My big thing with mom being sick is that I thought that this was earth-shattering enough to change her behavior. You know, rise to the occassion? I've been told by mom, several of her friends and my brothers that my expectations were too high. So, no. I am not wasting the price of a stamp on her. Plenty of truly needy and lonely 88 year olds would kill to have her resources and life. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 6123 Registered: 5-2001 |
Greenetree: Your mother's being sick has not changed your perception of your grand mother's behavior. I guess the next question is whether you want to see your grand mother's behavior towards your mother and/or other family members change. If not, is it worth the energy to concern yourself with her actions and/or feelings? If you do care (for your mother and/or other family members if not for yourself) then the next question is whether you care enough to try a little constructive behavior modification to try and turn things around. Thirty years is a lot of time in which to build resentments. Every family has someone like the grand mother you describe. In our family it was Aunt Hannah who at my father's funeral announced that my father couldn't be buried in the ceremony plot we had intended to put him in because that plot was reserved for a member of her family. (She was my Aunt by marriage). When she died, my mother, sister and I were the only ones from the family (apart from her son) to attend the funeral. Even her daughter-in-law chose not to attend. | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 803 Registered: 5-2003 |
Greentree; Your grandmother and my mother could have been twins. Until the day she died, my mother's only concern was for herself. Fortunately, I learned at a relatively young age not to expect anything from her, and I found the emotional support I needed in other places. Until she died--at 93--I saw to it that she was cared for, because I believe that how you treat others is what you get back, and, from what I have read of your blog, your grandmother, like my mother is a person who totally lacks empathy. Talk to her, take care of her if she needs it, but don't invest emotionally in her. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 1710 Registered: 9-2003  |
My Aunt Eleanor and Uncle Ed (really Dennis, but Eleanor changed his name on us about 20 years ago, just because) are a little too like your grandmother, greenetree. They are my godparents, and they meant the world to me till I was in my 20's. Then, they started turning into The World's Most Self-Centered Relatives -- despite all others' serious illnesses and death, and now despite my husband's illness. It's all about them, all of the time. And, they're pillars of their Methodist Church in Florida. They can't figure out why, despite their goodness, no one calls or visits. They are childless and well on the way to being relative-less. As with Joan, I figure every family has someone like this. Everyone handles differently; I choose scarcely any contact. Tough love and it keeps me from tears (which used to happen every time they called and inflicted idiot questions on me). Once a year, I write them a Christmas card. Our phone calls have dropped to naught. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5057 Registered: 5-2001 |
You are both correct, of course. She's just a good emotional outlet. I talked to her last week & towards the end, she said "I love you. You're all I have". No, you have mom and the boys, too. That's different. I love you. Long pause. Finally, from me: Thank you. Response: Oh. Well. Will you call me soon? It would have been so easy, but I just couldn't do it. I really don't have any feelings left for her anymore. Anything that was there is pretty much gone after this ordeal. I don't even feel bad about it. Now - on to more serious things. There is a little health fair in the lunchroon today. Of course, I took the 5 minute free chair massage. I laughed at the guy who asked me if I wanted to sign up and commit to walking 1,000,000 steps in the next year. I got my skin tested. The Skin Test Chic squirts Softscrub on my arm, a dab of sensitive skin cleanser (one of our products of course) next to it, runs a special Ph pencil on it & show me how drying and alkaline the Softscrub is compared to the perfectly Ph balancing cleanser. I ask her "So, this shows me what? I don't wash my face with Softscrub, so I'm not sure what the take-away message is". Looking slightly miffed, she tells me that, had I brought my facial cleanser with me (and who doesn't when they go to work?), she could have tested that. Uh-huh. Not being bright enough to walk away, I submit to the blacklight skin exam. STC sticks her head in one side, I stick mine in the other & every sun-damaged, dry, flaky, stressed-out clogged pore and wrinkle is highlighted. Ewwwwwwwww. I need a facial. What the hell was I thinking? | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5065 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mom is on her way back to the ER. Her blood pressure crashed. I don't know anything else. If she dies before GMF & leaves me with the old bat, I'll kill her. Hey - gallows humor. I'm allowed, OK? | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2501 Registered: 9-2003 |
Tell her you'll have her cremated and put the ashes in GMF's casket if she leaves you with the old bat. Yep, gallows humor permitted - but especially yours. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5066 Registered: 5-2001 |
Didn't I mention this before? Mom's father/GMF's husband was cremated when he died in 1977. His ashes are still in the back of Mom's closet. Whenever GMF pisses her off, Mom opens the door and yells at him for leaving her alone with her. Yikes. Am I destined to be my mother? Although, I have threatened to sprinke their ashes together. Everyone is going to the giant ahstray in the sky. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2502 Registered: 9-2003 |
Yea, you did - and I told you we pass around my father-in-law's ashes (in an appropriately dignified box from the Company Bombay). I know - it's a bit sick - but MF-inlaw didn't want them.. so he travels. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 2323 Registered: 6-2001  |
Far out! Six Feet Under remains alive and well in Greenetree's blog. Greenie, you should tell GMF all about "holistic" burials and how you and your brothers are considering it. That might do it. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5075 Registered: 5-2001 |
Huh. I stopped watching Six Feet a few years ago. I understand that this season was great. Mom is in the hospital, no one knows anything, and Baby Bro has decided (without being asked) that he will go to Ohio. I'm very proud of him; I don't know how he will handle it, but he doesn't have a choice. The next step is to decide where she needs to be. And keep my mouth shut. Everyone thinks she needs help (apparently someone has to come over every day to help her get down the stairs in the morning & back up at night; Sunday, she forgot to take her medicine). I want it to be her choice. She has had so little control over her life the last few months. I think that deciding where and how she wants to die (treatement/no treatment) should be her choice. So, as long as she is not a danger to herself and there is someone there to help her, I will bite my lip and stay silent. This is just so damned hard. And to make it worse, we love our den and may now lose it to a bedroom. hah ha. BTW - a job opened internally that I really want and the hiring manager wants me. I am totally bored by what I am doing now, but the VP told the hirig manager that they can't afford to let me go because of frozen head count on my current team. Now, the usual Greenetree would fight for (and win) the new position. But, I have to admit that now is not the best time to get into a political brawl. It just would have been nice to like what I do when I get to the office in the morning. | ||
| Lucy Supporter Username: Lucy Post Number: 639 Registered: 5-2005  |
Good luck Greentree with all the decisions and changes in your life now. You have great Karma flowing your way and prayers to boot. Keep venting we are all there to support you. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 6131 Registered: 5-2001 |
Greenetree: What if your Mom decides that she wants to come home to die and doesn't want to take any more medication or treatment for her condition? Will you be ok with that decision? If so, then it is fine to say that you have done enough and let someone else make this next series of decisions. If not, then you need to try and influence her decision one more time or make a pact with yourself to live with whatever she decides. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2506 Registered: 9-2003 |
I've almost been in your shoes on that one. My father-in-law had macular degeneration and kidney failure to the point where he needed dialysis. He decided that he didn't want to do it anymore. We persuaded him several times to continue, but finally, we let it be his decision. In the end, that last month was a gift. We all knew he was dying and those who took advantage of the time learned so much about him in that month - his childhood, his golf game, his work on the Mercury Guidance System. He was an authority on asbestos, lead and floride - all pretty boring topics for his grandchildren - so when they finally had the time to get to know HIM - well, it was priceless. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5076 Registered: 5-2001 |
Joan - don't get me wrong. Quality of Life is my profession. It is totally her decision to stop treatment and, frankly, since I'm not sure what she's getting out of this, maybe for the best. I am not trying to influence her decision on treatment. The thing that is hard to let her decide is where she will live. If she is not able to be alone, I want to give her the chance to say she's ready to come to me, or a nursing home or whatever. My brothers and I will do our best to keep her home with care givers as long as we can afford to, if that's what she wants. What I don't want to have to do is say "you must come live with me now - you can't take care of yourself anymore". I have no regrets about the time we've spent together or what we've gotten to know about each other in the last 6 months. I am at peace with that. In fact, as warped as this is, we've had a lot of laughs thru the whole thing. The last time she was in the hospital, I walked into her room and said "Get up & get dressed - you aren't an invalid". The nurse was horrified, but we both were cracking up. OK - so she has cancer and was throwing up. But she wasn't bed-bound. Why not put on some clothes and sit in the chair? Sick people lay in bed in their jammies all day. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 6132 Registered: 5-2001 |
Greenetree: You are right. It really has to be her decision. You are demonstating a great deal of love and courage in doing everything you can to let her make it herself. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1150 Registered: 8-2003  |
Greenetree - if your mom comes to live with you, please invite all your dear readers over to meet her. She sounds like a remarkable woman - just like her daughter. | ||
| Debby Citizen Username: Debby Post Number: 1952 Registered: 5-2001 |
joan - you're absolutely right...it's the see-saw of emotions and endless obstructions and u-turns that are the hardest to deal with. My mom has been incredibly strong throughout this period - just in the last three days she has started to sound very different - deflated. I am starting to look into skilled nursing facilities down here - with her blessing. If he does get going nutritionally and recover from this infection I don't think he'll ever be able to go home again, even with a full time nurse. A 6'3 frail disoriented man takes 2 skilled adults for any transition, and my Mom can afford one LPN, but not two for any period of time. I asked on please help, but will repeat it here: does anyone know of a good lawyer who specializes in elder law (pretty sure that's what it's called)? greene - good for you for giving this important choice to your Mom. I hope she decides to come stay with you. I know you'll make the den beautiful, and TS will feed her very well. Virtual hugs. | ||
| Debby Citizen Username: Debby Post Number: 1953 Registered: 5-2001 |
Almost forgot - they are attempting the feeding tube again today, with a 'more experienced doctor'. Don't get me started. Hopefully, it will work this time. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5080 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ya know - things just aren't fair. I've spent more time in that hospital with my mom than anyone else but I never get to meet the infectious disease doc. ID is my passion; I'm enthralled to the point of borderline psychosis. So, guess who's there today? The ID guy. And I'm not.  I told mom to tell him that I'd be upset I missed him. She still hasn't gotten over me almost joining WHO to go to Africa & study Ebola in the 1980s....... Debby - good luck. It's amazing what a difference someone with more experience can make. | ||
| Debby Citizen Username: Debby Post Number: 1954 Registered: 5-2001 |
The feeding tube is in! It took a lot of doing, and Dad told the surgeon to go fuqq himself, but it's in. I hope it stays in and he starts to stabilize. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5082 Registered: 5-2001 |
It's always a good sign when they give anatomical suggestions to the docs. Yay, Dad! | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 1714 Registered: 9-2003 |
Good deal on the feeding tube, Debby. And I agree with what greenetree said regarding patient-doctor instructions. greenetree, I'd love to meet you mom should she come here. I'm terse tonight as I'm on my kid's 'puter and got home late from work. Good wishes to alla you. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5085 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mom would probably love to meet all of you. We'd just have to make a blood pact to invent a story as to how you "know" her. I'm sure she's quite forgotten that I'd mentioned this thread so long ago & I sure don't want her reading it! We were talking last night about Baby Bros trip in, how scared he is & how proud we both are that he decided to go to Ohio. She said he was handling it fairly well, but she had to kick him out to go have dinner with our dad. I said something to the effect that she was still takig care of him. She told me that you never stop parenting. I have visions of Cookie & her husband (on another thread) arguing with their daughter in 20 years because she & the girls want to get away from the kids for a weekend & Mr. & Mrs. Cookie are worried about a bunch of middle-aged moms, free from their responsibilities, going a little crazy. "Older Than Girls Gone Wild". That would be one scary video. Especially if they take off their shirts. Except they would have to explain it to their kids instead of their parents. Wow. That was a major drift. I just called mom & the GI guy is there. "Oh, good", I say. "Hold up the phone so that I can hear". "No. Call me later". Click. I miss all the good stuff. Her oncologist thinks it may be an infection related to the GI procedure she had Tuesday. That makes sense, since her bloodwork was clear on Monday. She's not neutropenic, which is excellent news. She is septic, not so excellent, and has almost no white count, which is even more not so excellent. Her chemo this week is off, which sucks big time, since we don't know if she could have achieved full remission had she not had to wait 6 weeks between chemos on her last regimen. So, we hope she can do chemo next week, we take another CAT and then decide if it's time to call it a day. We hope...... | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5089 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well. I knew it was bound to happen. There has finally been a family blow-up. My stepmom told off Baby Bro for taking so long to come in and being so cavalier about the whole thing. I won't go into all the psycho-babble crap about him being scared, etc. (I think I've done that enough) and I'm not exactly mad at my stepmom; she is affected by this as well & had something to say & said it. I let her vent at me. I will call him later & see how he's doing & not tell him that I know about the Incident. I want to keep this contained to something between the two of them. Nerves are raw enought that it could easily become a distraction. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5109 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have had another epiphany. Major crises do not release better angels, nor do they cause people to rise to the occassion. The one effect you can count on is that you will see the best and worst of everyone, and you will truly know who they are. I got a pedicure last night; during the leg massage, for about 2 minutes there, I was completely relaxed. My life was happening to someone else. Ahhhhhh. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2521 Registered: 9-2003 |
Amen to that Greenie. People you think will step up go the other way and people you least expect to rally sometimes surprise you. Glad you got to have a "calgon moment"... try to take more of them. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5128 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well- my little Energizer Bunny Gnome Girl (aka Mom) is bouncing back again. They still don't know the exact type of sepsis, but it's not a million other things. I've been rethinking this "come live with me at the end" approach. If she really bounces back and this chemo starts shrinking the tumor again, we may have some more time. I am starting to worry about how far she lives from her doctor, the hospital and her friends as the winter comes. I don't want to get a phone call & be unable to drive or catch a flight due to weather. And she needs to be on one floor. I will wait until she is home from the hospital & talk to her about spending the winter. I will get her in October & bring her back in March (if she's well enough). It will take a lot of convincing that this "isn't the trip to Disneyland" as one of her friends put it. TS and I had a long talk about it last night. I said "let's not romanticize her just because she's sick. You know how she can be & she'll be living here. We won't be able to leave".  But, I still wish my life were happening to someone else. Scratch that. No one deserves this. | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 366 Registered: 10-2003 |
Debby, what's happening with the elder care attorney? I saw the numbers you got on please help were for up here. Do you need someone by you? The law firm I work for has offices in FL - I don't believe we do that, but I can ask for referrals. Greenie, indeed it will be hell if/when your mom comes. Having been there, I can promise you wouldn't trade it for anything. I bought my cats an order of tuna sushimi for dinner. Hugs to you all. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 2334 Registered: 6-2001 |
GT, the similarities of our Moms have really kind of freaked me out. Pioneer women. Strong. Sure, difficult - but ultimately our best friend. The recorded history is essential. And a fair request. Just tell your Mom Bets says she has to do it. Or don't. We were so lucky - video from Mom's birthday just days prior to her death show her happy and well. I'm so sorry, my friend. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 1722 Registered: 9-2003 |
greenetree, I take it there's no opportunity to get her some sort of live in/semi live in person out where she lives? A kind of companion to see to her needs: light housekeeping, driving to docs and so on? From what you wrote above it looks like she's got some time, but you and your siblings need to feel she's seen to well. I ask this not just because of your sanity, but also hers in terms of disruptions and so on in docs, her area friends. Can't tell where, geographically, the true center of her universe is. | ||
| maple Citizen Username: Maple Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2003 |
Greentree, the last few years of my mother's life were the most beautiful times, albeit very sad, that I will treasure always. My mom taught me so much more in such a short time and I was older when she passed away. Don't get me wrong, there were major issues regarding eating, going out etc., but the positives far outweighted the negatives. We often lived our lives agonizing how this happened to our family and what would become of us......but I wouldn't trade those last few years for anything. I knew with all my heart that my mother loved us and she knew just how much we loved her. Good luck with your decision. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 6169 Registered: 5-2001 |
Greenetree: Are you sure your mother is willing to come out here for the winter? When I tried to talk my mother into coming out here and living with us once it became obvious that the independance she cherished wasn't going to last much longer, I got hit with what I assume are the usual set of arguments: "This is my home." "My doctors are all out here." "My friends are here." "What would I do during the day while you were at work?" How would I get to the doctor/hospital/etc. during the day if I needed to?" The list goes on. My advice would be to prepare a list of good answers to these and other anticipated questions before making the firm offer to your mother to come to New Jersey for any length of time. In my Mom's case I think it was mostly the strong sense of independance and the realization that she wouldn't be in a position to have to consider such a move if her ability to live on her own weren't being compromised for even a short amount of time that caused her to be so opposed to coming out here to live with us. In the end, we went the home health aide route and we were fortunate that she had excellent neighbors who checked up on her regularly and called us if there was a problem. Of course, there is a huge difference between having an ailing mother in Brooklyn vs Ohio. Good luck in making the best decision possible. I'm so glad to hear she is rallying again. May her condition continue to improve. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5130 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ahhhh.... Do gooders. Think about the phrase. Let's break it down: "Do", i.e, "I must do something". "What do you want me to do"? "This is what you need to do". "Don't step in the dog-do". "Gooders", i.e., "happy-peppy sunshine". "Not bad". "Bringing the positive". So, put together, the phrase could also read "Peppy poop manifesters". I had a horrible day Saturday, to the point where I actually laid in bed Saturday night worrying that I would have another bad day on Sunday and have to face the week with no psychological break. But, yesterday was a very nice day. We got all the new patio furniture put together, kinda/sorta figured out the new sprinkler system (after the entire lawn got watered 3 times before it rained) and went to friends' for dinner to meet their new grandchild. Baby Bro brother called while we were at dinner & I figured I would call him back later. Mistake; I should have waited until today. There isn't much more you can do to make Monday worse, anyway. He's in a tizzy because one of mom's closest friends & hubby took him out for dinner on Friday & ambushed him with ""She cannot be alone any more. You must get her 24/7 nursing care. We can't do it. You can't rely on her friends". Well, long story short, he took it as we are burdening her friends with her care. I explained that this particular friend and I have been going around about this for months. Mom is in a gray area, last of her independence, etc. etc. We are not relying on her friends. Every time I don't call them for weeks, they call her and ask to take her to her next appointment. Blah, blah, blah. He & I argue about what the friends meant. I get pissed and call the friend. "We just thought he should understand. He needs to understand. The burden shouldn't be on you". "Do you understand that he has opted out of her care for the last 6 months and he can't just opt in? It is no one's job to 'make him understand'. Everyone copes their own way. I am not 'protecting' him. I am making my life easier. I don't care what you meant, that is what he heard". "I'll call him and talk to him". "No. Leave it alone. Just understand that no one expects you to sit by her bed side 24/7 or work your life around her schedule". "Of, of course not". Then shut the hell up. This is hard enough. If I have learned nothing else from this experience it is that I will never again (or try not to) poke my nose in and say "you need to do this". I will help as much as I can. I will offer my experiences if asked. But no one is going thru what you are going thru, even if they've been there before. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 1734 Registered: 9-2003 |
It's hard, isn't? At times, lots of people want to be helpful but few can. So freakin' individual, the family situations, the history, the money, the prognosis. Knowing looks. Tsk-tsks. The one person I can always count on, talk-wise, is my best friend who art in Delaware. Known her a long time and she herself has had so much crap in her life that she either (1) listens, (2)talks movies and distractions, or (3) sends money/books. She never, ever judges in words, tone or anything else. Thank God for her (that's you, Rae, if you're out there!) I feel for ya, kiddo... | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5132 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks, Cyn. I knew I should have waited until today to call Baby Bro. What did I say about Mondays? The landscaper just poured a 16 oz cup of OJ, with pulp no less, down the back of my pants. My new pants that I am wearing for the first time. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 1736 Registered: 9-2003 |
-- WE INTERRUPT THIS BROADCAST -- Everything's nuts in my house, husband's out getting chemo and I forgot to register. If I don't get a friend to pick up the MMS ASP form today before 4:30 I'M SUNK! Just learned this this a.m. and cannot leave work. Anyone around town who could pick up for me? Please private line and I'll give details. Thanks much... | ||
| wbwallflower Citizen Username: Wbwallflower Post Number: 147 Registered: 7-2005 |
Cyn- I PLed you. |
