| Author | Message | ||
     Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2062 Registered: 9-2002 |
My 2 cents... My father was a "bigger and better" kind of guy. He moved us every 2 years to a bigger house in a "nicer" community until my parents split up (I was 10). I hated moving. New friends, new school. I could care less about the size of our house, quality of the schools, etc. I just hated being uprooted every time I made friends. Your situation is obviously different because you have provided a lot of stability to the girls. But if it were me I would (unlike my father) take their thoughts very seriously before moving just to get more space. Of course my brother in law recently moved for his job, and his oldest (she is 11) is much happier in her new school and community. So you never know. We moved from Basking Ridge, which we loved, mainly because of the commute to NYC. Now if my husband is late it doesn't take him an extra hour to get home. Makes a big difference, and we were willing to give up the space because of it. Although now the prices there are not much better than here. I would advise against Clinton because: 1. The commute is much worse than it looks 2. The new development is crazy and will end up pushing taxes higher as they build new schools and infrastructure. 3. It is pretty far from any major city if you want/need that kind of stimulation 4. The commute is MUCH WORSE THAN IT LOOKS Some ideas of nearby places that might have what you are looking for. I don't think any are as liberal/creative as MSO though. Springfield New Providence Long Hill (Sterling/Gilette) Florham Park Morris Township Watchung Bridgewater East Hanover/Whippany Mountain Lakes Not all of these have train lines, but my friends in Florham Park and Whippany take it from Convent Station. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 2564 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think Poconos works for my friends because they have a non-commuting parent who is a free-lancer (working from home) and able to schlep the kids around and be there after school, etc. I wouldn't want to do it, myself, and I definitely wouldn't consider it with two commuter parents for exactly the reasons you say as well as for the commuting stress in general. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3003 Registered: 5-2001 |
My husband works in the general NYC area. (He's in construction and goes from jobsite to jobsite.) He usually drives because the earliest train doesn't get him in early enough. Sometimes he drives to Queens too. I think my girls would be fine. They are young enough to make new friends and they would have enough activities to help them meet people. My biggest concerns are the commute, for my husband's sake obviously, and the feeling of fitting in. I agree, SOL, it would totally kill my social life! But, truth of the matter is, I don't really know that I want to freelance more than I do now to pay for a house. There are plenty of other expenses to deal with. My freelance $ is like a bonus...vacation, eating out, clothes...whatever home we have we want to be able to afford it on my husband's salary (and obviously our profits from this house). Thanks for all the suggestions though. I am beginning to go back to my original thoughts, which was we should stay here, maybe do up the attic for the girls, and save up for a weekend cottage. Looking at all those hideous kitchens online gives me total agita! | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 3763 Registered: 3-2002 |
shh, have you considered Staten Island? There was a piece in the Sunday Style section of The Times last weekend saying how alot of creative NYers are moving to Philadelphia...the "sixth borough"...where one can live comfortably in or close to the city in a neighborhood and for alot lower cost of living. But back to "west of here"...theres no doubt you can get more house/lower taxes if you look out west. You will live near some good people no doubt, wherever you live. Because of sprawl, taxes over time in some areas will go up..in some cases, significantly I would guess as more infrastructure is needed in towns to support the boom. Some towns are in good shape now but run the risk of being thrown into another category if one thing happens (an article I read about Whitehouse Station if Merck moves/is sold/closes their operations there...and the impact their weakened condition has already had on the local economy there). Another thing to try to consider is not just who already lives in a town/area, but who is moving there...a consideration that has made Maplewood/South Orange more appealing to some and less appealing to others, for example. Increased commute times also are compounded by weather conditions..out west is elevated...more likely to have worse winter conditions on roads...also the roads are jammed out that way, especially 287. Alot of local county roads out that way are over-burdened. One town people I know moved to has become less appealing since it seems there will be a landfill there (sound familiar?). Also, consider that in many towns, not everything is as convenient. Friends who moved to Mendham tell us how taking their kids to their activities and schools takes alot longer because things are so spread out...but they knew that going in and they realized it was an additional commitment they would make in order to have more land. Also, for us, when we house-hunted, it was important to have a neighborhood with sidewalks. There is no right or wrong answer..its a personal decision...and often with the decisions, there are trade-offs. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2063 Registered: 9-2002 |
 I feel for you. Now that our addition is kaput we are feeling the space squeeze, and we only have 2 little ones. I keep thinking about how much money we can save if we stay here for a while. I might be able to work part time, we could afford vacations, whole foods, new cars, and other little luxuries that we would have to give up if we upgraded. Then I deal with all 4 of us in one bathroom in the AM and I think I am ready to move now! If you can deal with a "smaller" upgrade you can probably find a lot more land, slightly bigger house and lower taxes for not much more than what you would get for your house if you look off the train line. Keep in mind though more land means more work for Mr. Shh. My friend in Whippany only has about 1/2 acre, but her husband is out there for several hours most Saturdays either mowing/raking/shovelling. So she feels like she is alone with the kids an extra day a week! As much as I would want more land I wouldn't want to have to take care of it. And if I upgraded I couldn't afford a yard service. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3004 Registered: 5-2001 |
It sucks. Part of me is ready for something new and part of me is not. Wendy, he is already thinking about the ride on mower! I do think we're going to have to reasearch it more. Damnit! It was his idea and he's at work not even thinking about it and I'm here getting sick over it. Always the way... | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 3769 Registered: 3-2002 |
one bright side...if you have more property and arent close to the other houses in the neighborhood, Mr. Shh doesnt have to worry about people being able to see in your windows! | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3006 Registered: 5-2001 |
 True. I wouldn't have to crawl around on the floor naked. That's a plus! (BTW, the Philly idea has piqued my curiosity. I need to look into areas a bit more South as opposed to West.) | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 3772 Registered: 3-2002 |
I wouldn't have to crawl around on the floor naked. what goes on between you and Mr. Shh is your business | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1137 Registered: 8-2003  |
I read that article about Philly and it intrigued me....but I took more away from it about bigger less expensive apartments/houses than about houses on more land. shh - I doubt you'd be happier south. you want to move to Marlboro? you might as well move to Staten Island! excellent point Hank made about the commute in the winter. Just a few miles west of here gets much worse weather. that will certainly hinder the commute for Mr Shh | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3007 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hank...  I know...I'd never move to Marlboro. That's exacty what I want to avoid. I was thinking there must be someplace where I can get a nice piece of property down there (off the Tpk maybe) where I could go into a diner on a Sunday morning and not run into a dozen PRHS and Wagner HS graduates, still with their teased hair, bad accents and long nails! Ok, I have to put luggage away and get away from this damn computer! | ||
| redY67 Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 3043 Registered: 2-2003  |
VIG what about the Lake Hapatcong area? A friend of mine lives up there and it is gorgeous. She has big beautiful house on 1.5 acres right on the lake. The prices are very very reasonable compared to here. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3009 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, that was fast. Thanks to all of you for helping me deal with my issues. Mr. Shh came home sick as a dog. Stumbled in to the house, took his boots off, took some tylenol and went to bed. I went upstairs to check on him and told him I didn't think Clinton was right for us. He said feeling sick, he would have been miserable if he had to drive much farther. We have decided to look at areas much closer to MSO, off the train line. I don't know if we will make a change or not, but I thank all of you for helping me deal with it! Who knows, maybe there is a bigger house on more property in town that will fit the bill. Thanks guys. xoxo S | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1139 Registered: 8-2003 |
glad we could talk you down. I'd like to start the MOL pool "what will shh's obsession be tomorrow?" any takers?  [didn't you look at a house in west orange or springfield last year?] [hope Mr Shh feels better!] | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3011 Registered: 5-2001 |
Pippi, you are so right. I am pathetic! Today I started throwing out my girls' school papers from the past year. On the last day of school I emptied their backpacks into a mesh laundry basket and for the past two months it sat there. I also have a big bin with papers from the past few years. I then felt really guilty and stuck about 99% of the papers from last year into the bin, sat on it to close it, and marked it with a sharpie : 2001-2005 Tuscan School. (I don't even know if that's accurate, I may have other bins and bags in the attic.) When Mr. Shh feels up to it he will have to drag this bin up to the attic. I can't make progress anywhere! We DROVE past a house in West Orange last year. (Before the kitchen and bathroom reno.) I know, I know. I am so obsessive. Makes me sick. My new old rule is no more toys on the first floor. I can't take it anymore I am losing my mind. No one puts a damned thing back and all I do is pick up stuff, go from room to room and pick up stuff. I threaten them with the big black garbage bag but I have a hard time tossing their toys, not that they'd miss it. I need an organizational overhaul in every room in this house and maybe then it wouldn't feel too small and cluttered. My dream is to have nice, organized closets in every room. Oh, need a pen honey, third shelf on the left. But then we build the closets and they don't stay organized and I have shelves full of clutter anyway. I bought a book, Scaling Down. It didn't help. Tomorrow I am dragging my butt to the gym and maybe later on I will obsess about Las' living room. | ||
| TomD Citizen Username: Tomd Post Number: 168 Registered: 5-2005  |
Wait. You bought a book on how to have less stuff? Was that on sale at the irony store?  Sounds like a book that one should get from the library. I have good friends who have been living in the same small one bedroom apartment downtown for the past 8 or 9 years. They live by the rule that something come in, something goes out. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3013 Registered: 5-2001 |
I need to put that in effect! | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1141 Registered: 8-2003 |
Notehead and I have that same rule re: shoes, bags and clothes. If I buy a pair of shoes, I need to get rid of a pair of shoes. It's a good rule. I lived for 8 years in a studio apartment and was VERY good about "sweeping". My friends nicknamed me "The Sweeper". Now I find with a bigger space, more closets, an attic, a basement, one could REALLY horde dumb stuff they don't need! shh - if you need me to sweep, let me know...I'm here for you. | ||
| Jay Citizen Username: Jaymon Post Number: 676 Registered: 10-2004  |
Can I get you to sweep my basement too, Pippi? I'm just glad your staying put, VIG (nice shower, by the way) | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3016 Registered: 5-2001 |
I do get rid of a lot of stuff of mine (not an eye for an eye though, but close). I have a pretty big closet and my limit is exceeding the storage space I have. Once it starts getting too cluttered, I toss stuff. The bigger problem is the kids' stuff. Between saving stuff for hand-me-downs, all the gifts, toys, etc, I am drowning! | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1142 Registered: 8-2003 |
sure Jay. No prob! I love to sweep other people's stuff. It makes me feel like I've accomplished something without actually having to purge my own stuff  | ||
| Jay Citizen Username: Jaymon Post Number: 678 Registered: 10-2004 |
OK, do I have to make an appointment, Pippi? | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1143 Registered: 8-2003 |
of course - I book up fast! | ||
| Camnol Citizen Username: Camnol Post Number: 87 Registered: 3-2005 |
Well, Shh, I don't know you, but I would say be very, very careful about moving that far out. We almost bought a house in Clinton about 12 years ago or so, and we are very glad that we didn't. It really is a crappy commute from the city, and we decided a smaller house with less property was worth my husband having more time to spend with the family. The commute on 78 has become so much more congested in the past 13 or so years we've lived in the area. I would look very carefully at what you love about where you are now, because you may find that you are giving up way too much just for a bigger house and a pool. We ended up buying in the Berkeley Heights/New Providence area. Good schools, nice area, but I gave up a little piece of myself every year that we were out there. It's a very different place and it fits many people well, it just wasn't for us. After almost 13 years, we decided that we couldn't take it anymore. We needed to be somewhere a little more eclectic and a little less "suburban." So we moved here in December. I can tell you that we feel more at home here after 6 months, than we did in the 13 years in our old town. This area is just more eclectic, more tolerant and more fun. You couldn't pay me to move back. Feel free to PL me if I can answer any questions for you. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3018 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey Cam, thanks for that insight. I haven't investigated the Berkeley Heights/New Providence area other than online, but of course I am curious to know your thoughts. I most definitely will PL you. We're not rushing into anything, still working on this old house here. I do know that my girls would really love more space to run around though. Thanks. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 1719 Registered: 9-2003  |
Berkeley Heights and Livingston come to mind, to me. Both seems to have bigger yards, some older housing and good schools for similar money and, I think, lower taxes. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3042 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, schizo as we are...mr. Shh says to check listings for other towns but I don't know. I think as PIppi said I just needed to obsess about something, it's not easy. We saw 2 listings of interest (home style and size) in not so far towns and both ended up being on main streets. No wonder they were still around. At this point I think I'm just going to continue finishing my work in this house and deal with it. I can't look half heartedly (doesn't go with my personality) and I don't think I'm ready to throw in the towel and really decide to move. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 5106 Registered: 5-2001  |
Look at the bright side. Think about how most of us grew up, before the age of the McMansion. We 4 kids and the dog rode around in a station wagon because there were no mini-vans or SUVs. We had a fairly large house for the times - my parents had a master bath, we shared a full bath & there was a powder room on the first floor. Two of my brothers shared a bedroom because it was a 4 bedroom house. Our den was smaller than mine is now. Our whole house was the same size (sq ft) as mine, just laid out differently. And I still think that my present house would "not be big enough" for a child. Why? Because we would lose our guest room. I think we've all gotten pretty spoiled. It was unheard of for a childless couple (unless empty nesters) to live in a house the size of mine. We've super-sized everything. I'm not saying people don't feel crowded at times. But, face it, we have more crap and larger senses of entitlement. My European colleagues shake their heads at how much space we think we need - cars, houses, etc. Something to ponder, I guess. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3045 Registered: 5-2001 |
I know G. It's something I wrestle with constantly. I do feel if we fixed up the basement a little and did the attic the house could work for our family. Might be a little tight for entertaining, but 90 percent of the time fine. I guess part of me wants more space because it's there. It's something people have. I do know I love my house more than some of these builder beige monstrosities we've all seen. We have no guest room or spare anything in this house! I guess I should just shut up and get my desk made and my boot bench and hope the organizing helps. And definitely have no more kids. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2082 Registered: 9-2002 |
I am so with you. I always need something to obsess about, be it a project, a vacation, a move, or whatever. One of our decisions is whether to take our 19x12 bedroom and carve out a master bath. Trying to decide if I'd rather have a master bath or a big bedroom. Or if we could carve out some of our and our daughter's closets for a master bath. Or we could put a bath/dressing room in the attic. Or put the office in the attic and add a full bath in the basement. Or do nothing. Or we could move. But then we wouldn't have the money to re-do the new house, and of course I, I mean we, would want to. My older daughter has been asking to share a room with #2. So the hubster and I decided when we get #2 out of the crib we will put them in the same room until they decide (probably in about a week) that they want to go back to their own rooms. When I told #1 we were going to do that, she said "and we can save the other room for when the new baby comes". Um, there is no new baby. "No mommy but when she (because of course it would be a girl) comes she can have the other room. Silly mommy.". Silly indeed. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3050 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wendy, 19 x 12 seems very spacious. I think you could carve out a small master bath/closet and still have enough bedroom space. Plus, the master bath with definitely increase the value of your home. When we did our addition we basically took an exisitng bedroom (about 13x13) and added on to it. So now we have the master bath you've seen online, a walk in closet (about the same size as the bath) and a hall where the old bedroom was and it leads to our bedroom/sitting room which is on the wide end about 13 feet and on the narrow end 8 feet by 25. I kind of wish we broke up the space a little differently, but it made the most sense at the time. I would like another closet, and the sitting room area is very narrow (8 feet) and the bed sits opposite so it seems like there's a lot of wasted space. At least it's my space! In the future I would like to add built ins to the narrow end of the room and just get 2 chairs instead of the large sofa we have there now. Basically, my kids watch tv there when they don't want to go into the basement. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3051 Registered: 5-2001 |
BTW Wendy, I think we'd be great friends! | ||
| Jay Citizen Username: Jaymon Post Number: 697 Registered: 10-2004 |
Funny that, with the pain my wife is going through on our first, she is talking stopping right then and there. We are definitely glad we are putting a master bath in the bedroom, creating the babys room from scratch, and building out closets. You have to put it in perspective, VIG. You will always want more, bigger, newer (is that a word?). The reality is that you make trade-offs and re-arange as you can. If you need space for your girls to run around, I have a huge side yard..... | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2085 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think we need to start a design business together! I'm really thinking about going in that direction but scared to lose my "golden handcuffs". We'd look like Mutt & Jeff though, tall, dark & skinny and short, light & dumpy. Maybe you could get me to the gym (although I don't think that would make me taller). I loved your renovation pics. You really made a lot out of a modest space. I'm working on convincing hubster to redo the kitchen since we aren't doing the addition. I've thought about seeing if we could bump out the kitchen just a bit and connect it to the sunroom, but I don't think we'd get much more space. Plus the sunroom is working well now that we have converted it from useless sitting room that no one used to "art room" for the girls. They love it. Then maybe we can do a master bath project. And an attic. And the basement... | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3055 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ooh, Wendy...I LOVE it! We'll have to wear matching outfits to client meetings!  Thanks for the offer Uncle Jay! I'll drop the girls off to run around in your yard anytime! | ||
| Jay Citizen Username: Jaymon Post Number: 703 Registered: 10-2004 |
Any time, Little Missy. Just stay in the 'hood and we are golden. }Thought you could sneak by me with that desk thread, eh? Not to worry, I think I have a potential buyer or two this weekend (and it's not Mem). | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3075 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well yesterday I had something to divert my attention from all the aspects of my house...my own little Bridezilla. My brother is getting married next July, and everyone at the House of Shh is in the Wedding Party. Friday, Bridezilla, my mom and her mom went to Kleinfeld's and spent about 5 grand on the bridal ensemble. Bride will be wearing a dark Ivory gown, though her mom, who paid for said ensemble, preferred the lighter Ivory. BZ decided the Maids will all wear mango. Also, my two Jr. Bridesmaids are not to wear reasonably priced dresses like their flower girl sister, they have to get the mini version of the adult dresses, at about $200 a pop. This will not be cheap. Tuxedo will need to be a rental so all the men match as well. (Unless I see it's a two button traditional tux, then I will suspect he could just rent the vest and tie.) My goal yesterday was to demonstrate to BZ via trying on no less than 100 dresses that MANGO is about as unflattering a color on fair to medium skin as is possible. And to make sure the dress selected would look ok on a person, not just in a catalog. I was victorious, stage one. When we left the store she was leaning towards a pale rosy pink or deep brown, though her initial thought was that was too dark for mid-summer, but it is a formal Sat. night affair. Her sister hated the idea of pink, so now it's the deep brown (for the moment), which will look lovely with the dark ivory wedding gown, and looked good on both of our complexions. (So it should look good on all the Maids.) My next challenge is to see if she will let my older girls have some ivory on their dresses, either a ribbon belt, a flower, or ivory on top, brown on the bottom. They will be 8 & 10 at the time, and I think head to toe dark brown (they will be in gowns) might be too much. The baby (who willl be 4) will wear ivory. She's permitted to look like a mini-bride, but for some reason she's afraid the older girls in ivory will take away from her. At this point, I am just so relieved to not wear mango. Will I wear a deep brown ball gown again? Chances are very slim as I don't get invited to too many black tie events these days. Might have to throw a fancy New Years Eve party, or work my Halloween costume around it though. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 3867 Registered: 3-2002 |
the moral of the story: when life deals you mangos, make mango black bean salsa. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3076 Registered: 5-2001 |
okay! | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 3281 Registered: 5-2001 |
So our own little Bridezilla has been at it again. She changed her deep ivory dress to eggshell, added the covered buttons back in and shortened the veil. FWIW, I think these were good choices. Kleinfeld didn't give her a problem doing any of this, even exchanging her shoes. Now of course she wants to change the BM dresses, which we are supposed to order on Saturday! She now wants tea length instead of full length, pale blue instead of dark brown. Because they're tea length she wants us all in identical shoes. She brought a pair over yesterday to show us. My sister said she had no problem as long as they were reasonable. "Not too bad, only $100." Grrr... I told her perhaps she should consider allowing us to get similar, less expensive dyeables but at different heel heights. Her sisters are teensy (one is maybe 4' 10", the others are in the low 5's) but my sister, cousin and I are 6 inches taller. I see no need to teeter on 4 inch heels. (And why should her sisters not wear their Fredericks of Hollywood platform pumps if they want to appear taller?) She then ran her fingers through my short hair and commented aloud about how would I manage to put it up... Next she will insist we wear the same color eyeshadow and lip gloss for consistency in the photos. My mom asked my brother if we should consult with a plastic surgeon so we can all look identical... |
