| Author | Message | ||
     curb Citizen Username: Curb Post Number: 367 Registered: 1-2001 |
Marvin, God aint even on your side. If he was we would all be walking, and living in caves. Which then brings in the question, Would there be a negative effect on the environment if we all had to crap in the woods and build fires? As an American I would do my part to try to protect the environment. I would still build a fire (I`ve got to cook and stay warm), and crap in your cave. | ||
| Marvin Gardens Citizen Username: Marvin_gardens Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2003  |
And here I was worried that you'd post an incoherent reply... _______________ Do Not Pass Go | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 2702 Registered: 10-1999  |
First off, I'm with Anon on the fact that it was hard to focus on this discussion while imagining the image evoked in the first post of this thread. As for environmental damage: Submitted for your consideration. Today's NYT "Science Times" section has a detailed article about the increasing difficulty in oil exploration in Alaska. It seems that, as a result of global warming, the cold season is shorter than it used to be. That may not be a problem for us, but it is a problem in Alaska, where frozen tundra is an essential element of oil exploration. Simply put - no permafrost, no way to get heavy equipment in there. So, to sum up: As a result of global warming, there may be less exploration in Alaska for oil, which when refined and burned results in - global warming. As my non-"Alex Keaton" offspring remarked this evening on reviewing that article: "Nature finds a way to protect itself."  | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2314 Registered: 9-2001 |
Anon, “I have been unable to focus because I can't get the image of the "young tart" out of my mind.” Listen, when you get your focus back, would you mind clearing up an image you left us from another thread... | ||
| Tom Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1729 Registered: 1-2003  |
When I was in my early 20's, I did everything on my bicycle. I even did things for which most people think a car is necessary, i.e. took trips of several miles in bitter Boston winter weather. I did my grocery shopping and carried the bike and groceries up to my fourth floor apartment. Of course, I was young and foolish, not to mention in very good physical condition, but the perspective I had is food for thought. My view of cars was similar to many of our views of SUV's, that they are excessively wasteful and dangerous and indulgent. In fact, if you compare the average American to the average person anywhere on the planet, we are absurdly rich, and of course, the more you have, the more you waste. I do not advocate going back to a more crude lifestyle. I say this for the perspective of where we are. I think that more consciousness of what we do can help. I moved to Maplewood for several reasons, one being the hope that I could rely on my car a bit less. I have achieved that somewhat, but being three quarters of a mile from either Maplewood Ave or Springfield Ave, I have made that walk very few times. My kids walk a lot more than I do, though, and that's a good thing. Living in Edison, they never walked anywhere. But once I get home, they don't expect to walk anywhere. It's nearly unthinkable. And since we fear crime and car collisions as much as everyone else, I drive my daughter to and from wrestling practice at CHS two evenings a week, even though the walk would only be about 10 minutes. I feel silly doing it because this is so normal. (Oh, and yes, you read that right, my 12 year old daughter is a wrestler.) My point is that there is a huge continuum of poverty and extravagance. Trashing people because their places on that continuum is not your own is pretty darned shallow. I am disturbed by the trend of driving bigger and bigger vehicles, but I also recognize that I am part of that trend. I also notice that my odometer increases by about 24,000 miles a year, so who am I to criticize others, even if my car gets 25 miles per gallon? Tom Reingold the prissy-pants There is nothing | ||
| Crazyguggenheim Citizen Username: Crazyguggenheim Post Number: 499 Registered: 2-2002  |
every litter bit helps. Call me crazy | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4296 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tom, interesting point on mileage. We have a 1997 sub-compact with less than 21,000 miles. It rarely gets further than the Home Depot. Up until a little over two years ago our main ride had been a Chrysler Corporation mini-van. We rarely put more than 7,000 miles a year on it. I admit we currently have an Explorer, which gets more use, about 22,000 miles in two and a quarter years, because of trips to Chicago with our daughter who is in college there. One of the main reasons we leased the Explorer was for the comfort on long trips. My wife and I are both over six feet tall and never found the mini-van comfortable on long trips, especially me with arthritic knees.  Should we feel more guilty than someone who drives a car that gets better gas mileage twice the amount we do? I really don't know. | ||
| Tom Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1733 Registered: 1-2003 |
As far as environmental impact, both pollution we create and non-renewable resources we consume, we could gauge our own guilt by the number of gallons we consume per year. That would make me much more piggish than you, even though your vehicle is bigger and thirstier than mine. Tom Reingold the prissy-pants There is nothing | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 846 Registered: 10-2001 |
I agree with Tom and Bobk on this one. My wife drives to the train station and back every day. She has put 12K miles on her car since June of '01. My other two cars have a combined 8K miles on them, one purchased in May of '03 the other in July of '03. Not much by any standard. | ||
| Tom Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1734 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'll temper your satisfaction a bit here, because trips that are under three miles are much more polluting per mile, since the car doesn't have a chance to warm up. But I don't know what a one mile trip is equivalent to. Maybe a five-mile segment of a longer trip? Maybe more and maybe less. Tom Reingold the prissy-pants There is nothing | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4298 Registered: 5-2001 |
The amount of air pollution from a modern car is very minimal. Hell, you can't even do the old suicide thing of running a hose from the exhaust to the car, unless you want to die of starvation which, as Tom would put it, takes a long time. | ||
| Tom Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1735 Registered: 1-2003 |
What do you mean minimal? I've read 30% or 50% of our air pollution comes from privately owned motor vehicle exhaust. No one person contributes much, but we contribute a huge amount together. Tom Reingold the prissy-pants There is nothing | ||
| notehead Citizen Username: Notehead Post Number: 856 Registered: 5-2001  |
You guys bring up a good point. I think the total amount of pollution created & resources used is far more relevant than the vehicle you drive. And for those who haven't read any of the past hundred or so threads on this topic, I think its safe to say that most of us who prioritize environmental issues don't have a problem with someone who drives an SUV if they drive it well and fully utilize it - that is, if they routinely have it filled with passengers or cargo. Friends of mine who are drummers or avid campers (they go EVERY month) or handymen couldn't manage nearly as well without a large vehicle. And most of those folks are hopeful that hybrid or other gas-saving and emissions-reducing technologies get incorporated into the kinds of vehicles that their jobs and/or lifestyles require them to drive. | ||
| Cato Nova Citizen Username: Cato_nova Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2003 |
For those who drive SUV's, I would guess that 95% or more of them could switch to a less cooler minivan or station wagon, which would have the same functionality. The issue is not solely whether or not one "chooses" to drive an SUV. The issue is the fact that public policy deliberately funds the purchase of SUV's through minimal regulation and in some cases tax breaks. This is simply wrong. Given that any function performed by an SUV can be performed by a minivan or wagon that is less polluting, has lower risk of rollover, and presents a lower risk to other drivers, it is immoral and selfish to drive an SUV for the vast majority of suburban drivers. It is this kind of selfishness and refusal to look at the social costs of our actions that (1) will leave a cesspool for our children and grandchildren; and (2) makes the rest of the world hate us. That hatred is not wholly undeserved. | ||
| Kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bring back the Trolley!!!! The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR.. Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W. Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W. Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) | ||
| thevillagepub Citizen Username: Thevillagepub Post Number: 155 Registered: 11-2001  |
I am looking to purchase an SUV in the future. I currently drive a mini-van. However, my mini-van will soon be bursting at the seams. Our 4th child is due next month / we have a large golden retriever / we travel to see family all over the east coast. The days of our mini-van will surely be numbered. Even with the SUV ( and I am leaning toward a Chevy Suburban ), I anticipate having to get one of those Thule type roof racks to have enough room inside. It's all about space. I am not that excited about the SUV tag, but necessity is making it more of a reality for me. TheVillagePub | ||
| Tom Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1750 Registered: 1-2003 |
Villagepub, maybe what you need is a van. There's a greater ratio of interior space to mass than with an SUV, and I think they're pretty inexpensive. I think you can get them with as many as 15 seats. Tom Reingold the prissy-pants There is nothing | ||
| Marvin Gardens Citizen Username: Marvin_gardens Post Number: 59 Registered: 11-2003 |
maybe what you need is a van Or perhaps a box of Trojans _______________ Do Not Pass Go | ||
| thevillagepub Citizen Username: Thevillagepub Post Number: 156 Registered: 11-2001 |
Tom, Thanks for the advice, but I have seen those 15 seaters and read some articles on how they may flip over. I don't think I will be heading there. Marven, so witty, so clever. TheVillagePub | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4307 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mr. Pub, in the New Peoples Republic of America their will be a one child limit. In the interim may I suggest two Honda Civics and a U-Haul trailer? Interestingly, the difference in EPA gas mileage between our six cylinder Explorer and our former 3.8 litre Plymouth Voyager was one mile per gallon. Also, if my memory serves they both are within spitting distance of 4,000 pounds in weight. |
