| Author | Message | ||
     ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2467 Registered: 9-2001 |
Bob, the library is not Green Acres. Joan, the library will work wherever it is! For openers, the “Hilton Library” belongs in the Hilton section of town. The residents also complained about its present location when it was being built, so what is else is new? Listen, moving it two blocks away to the other side of the Avenue will do the exact opposite of what you’re suggesting. If we move it to the Verizon site, twice the number of adults and children will walk comfortably to the library, then do now… I invite you to get in touch with the thousands of “Red-Headed Stepchildren” who live on the other side of Springfield Avenue, like I have over the past several years. Moving the Library, Police Station, Teen and Senior Centers, Skate Park, and other recreation amenities to the Verizon site will be the best thing that Maplewood could ever do for the Seth Boyden School Children and the families living on that side of town. This kind of respect to this community is long overdue!!! BTW, FWIW, as I have repeatedly suggested in the past, putting much needed new businesses and services in the business zone at the present library site will pay huge dividends to the Avenue and surrounding neighborhoods in no time at all. Hey, the architect who made the presentation at the meeting is entitled to his opinion, just like the rest of us are entitled to ours. I say there is no problem with the windows! They’re just fine the way they are. What do you think about those apples?  Listen, the fundamental advantages of using the existing Verizon building far outweigh any objections I’ve heard to date. Joan, didn’t you hear what the Police Chief said? He favors this site over all other locations. Plus, the number one concern of all people who voted was that the needs of the police department came in first, over the eight other considerations given! As with regards to the next and final meeting of the combined community study committee, it has been scheduled for March 1, 2004, but might be changed because of the Board of Adjustment meeting the same date and time. At sometime after that meeting, whenever that might be, another open public meeting will be scheduled again for everyone to consider the decision of the township committee, who by then will have considered the considerations of the study committee, who I hope is considering the comments of the MOL posters committee, who have mostly boycotted the other meetings, because they think there have already been too many meetings to begin with...  Now the health facility is another story. It is located where the police sub-station is at the branch library, and not unlike the library itself, the services provided there, including the both the police sub-station, and the health office, is rarely used. No matter, the health office would also be located at the Verizon building. Earlster, the shame is to leave undeveloped town owned buildings in Maplewood. The present 2 ˝ acre site does nothing for the town at this point, compared to what the Verizon site could do. Lets increase town property by swapping the SA piece for the Verizon piece and put it to work for us, rather than us working our a.. off to pay for all the property tax we do each year. Joan, I’ll be happy to sit in for your son the architecture student. Have him e-mail his notes to me... Bob, the assessed value of the library site is under $2 million, The Verizon site assessed value is presently over $5 million. I have a developer who will buy the Verizon site for cash and give it to the town in turn for the library site. In addition, he will guarantee the town that he can bring in a minimum of $250K a year tax ratable within 12 months, or return the library site to them for FREE! The estimated cost of the Verizon site to buy presently is somewhere between $2 and $3.5 million if the town was to purchase it today. The cost to renovate it is upwards of $6 million, subject to what additional uses would be decided on. On the other hand, the library site, depending on what the town would allow it to be used as, is upwards of $2 million on the open market... However, the cost in dollars now is much less than the potential value it will bring to the surrounding properties, and ultimately the towns future ratables. Continuing to wait for the perfect scenario is not in anyone’s best interests. Time is money, big money... Every month the town waits results in tens of thousands of dollars in construction costs, not to mention the loss of other potential developers who may be waiting in the wings for someone to get off their butts. Growler, asked and answered! You’re behind the wave... There’s no cheese in that tunnel friend. Joan, this is not a dream about what can be done with all that space. Yes, there is serious need in this town for a teen facility which the teens would actually be willing to use. The Verizon property is the best location that facility. Teens using any facility need to be supervised. Where better than there? The expanded availability of after school day care is a good plan. This is especially so if the town can make it more affordable to its own residents… and it can!!!! Yes, residents are always in need of extra space. How could we have ever thought for a second that we wouldn’t find a need for it? I won’t take the time to list them all but trust me, there are a lot! So, if the key objectives from your point of view is to build the new facilitity, as inexpensively as possible, and do it without shortchanging the Police Department, or the town in general, then, LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE VERIZON BUILDING FOLKS! | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 140 Registered: 6-2001 |
WRT Green Acres: Joan & Earlster, The Green Acres question was posed to determine whether I had correctly understood the issue and/or problem. Do I? WRT Architectual Concerns: Joan, Please get some information as to what constitutes a "Heat Island" and the impact thereof. Regarding storm water run off, SA is one of the streets in our Township which has storm drains. Is there any reason to believe that the existing storm sewers are not sufficient to handle the run off? I hope that any architech we hire for a project at the site would be able to make a recommendation as to the efficacy of the existing sewer line and/or the need for additional curb drains and catch pockets. WRT Cost of Verizon Site: bobk, I don't recall the acquisition cost as having been addressed yet, but The Goldstein Partnership projects the cost of full demolition and new construction at ~$9 million and the cost of renovation of the existing facility at ~$9 to 10 million . Neither cost estimate includes the cost of acquisition, remediation, sitework (?), professional fees (~$200k higher for renovation) furniture, equipment etc., (?). WRT the location of the library: Given the present location of the branch library, the residents, including children, on the other side of SA have to cross a major thoroughfare in our Township. Moving the branch library to the other side of SA will require other residents, to cross the same major thoroughfare. Somebody in our Township is going to have to cross SA to get to the Branch Library, regardless of which side of SA the Library is located. Personally, I'd rather have children crossing Valley Street to get to the Main Library (at the traffic light at Baker Street) rather than any street light controlled crosswalk on SA). (FWIW, I live on the same side of SA on which the Library is now located). WRT additional uses of any given site: Joan, I was ready to really rail on you but your last paragraph covers my discomfort. One Man's Thoughts: I presently have no personal financial interest in whichever site is ultimately selected. I do have an indirect financial interest in the selection of a site which is appropriate to the intended use, and appropriate future expansion. At the present time, based upon the information available, I don't think taking a comercaial ratable off the tax books is a particularly good thing for us. If we can find a way to build a Township facility on Township property, that is my first preference. Use of non-township property should be used only as necessary. Sometimes, its necessary. TomR You can't always get want you want; but if you try, sometimes, you get what you need. K. Richards | ||
| bottomline Citizen Username: Bottomline Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2003 |
Joan, TomR, et al: The “heat island” and storm run-off are bogus issues. The Springfield Avenue business district is zoned for 90% impervious coverage, which means that up to 90% of any site can be covered with buildings or paving. Many existing lots on Springfield Avenue have 100% impervious coverage. So far as I know, the storm water drainage on Springfield Avenue is satisfactory. | ||
| bottomline Citizen Username: Bottomline Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2003 |
TomR, Didn't Jagger and Richards write that song? | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2479 Registered: 5-2001 |
Art: The police chief expressed a slight preference for the Verizon site because of the proximity to DPW. He also said he had nothing against the other sites under consideration. | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2480 Registered: 5-2001 |
TomR: To answer your questions: Heat Island Effect: Paved areas absorb a lot of heat and stay hot. In summer, the ground temperature, and surrounding temperature, can increase by as much as 15 degrees F. Remember all those 90 - 100 degree days we have been having during recent summers. Bottomline tells us that this is not an issue because the SA Business district is zoned for 90% paving coverage. However, for those interested in attracting year round foot traffic to that part of SA, paving over the area to the max with parking lots could be a concern. Storm Water Runoff: Yes, that part of town has storm sewers. However the area is also relatively flat. Green areas will absorb water, carrying it down to the aquifer. Paving blocks that absorption and causes puddling which results in the creation of areas of standing water and possible flooding. Remember, much of Maplecrest Park is a flood plane. | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2481 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bottomline: Far from being bogus concerns, your statement that the area is zoned for 90% paving makes these concerns significant because there are unlikely to be many parcels surrounding Vic's SA site proposal which would have offsetting green spaces. Please note, these are just concerns and not blocks to the proposal. They are factors which need to be addressed in both the site design and the overall SA plan if we are to make optimum use of the location. But, addressing these concerns could make the project more expensive to construct and maintain and could add to the timeline. | ||
| bottomline Citizen Username: Bottomline Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2003 |
Joan, Any commercial developer could come along today and build a parking lot with 90% paving coverage. No special permission would be required, just a routine site plan review. There are already many such parking lots along the Avenue, both for public parking and automobile sales. If there is an issue here it is with our zoning code, not with the proposals for the new police facility. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2469 Registered: 9-2001 |
So what are you saying Joan, the Police Chief is only slightly pregnant? I’ve heard the Chief speak his preference numerous times, and each time it was for the Verizon site. Who I haven’t heard from is the Fire Chief, or the Municipal Court Judge... I wonder if anyone has asked them what their preferences are? Meanwhile, I'm going to go check on my storm drains... | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2470 Registered: 9-2001 |
At the library meeting Monday night, an issue was raised about the property taxes at the Verizon site. I agreed to get back to a couple of people at the meeting who asked me what I knew about the tax question. Although I haven't had time to speak with the assessor, I'll post what information I just located in my notes. FWIW, the Maplewood tax assessor lowered the assessed values from 2003 to 2004 which resulted in a savings of $75,000 per year off the tax bill on the Verizon property. The records are public, so just call the assessor’s office for the current assessed value of the land and improvements, and then ask what they were last year in 2003 and I believe you find the information is correct. This year the taxes are about $125,000 last year they were around $200,000.... The town attorney said at the meeting the town takes a strong position when anyone wants to lower their taxes. In fact, I believe this only happens when the property owner requests that that taxes be lowered. So, is anyone interested why the taxes were lowered? As I stated in an earlier post on this thread, if the town agrees to let the present library site go, the taxes the town would receive would be double what they are receiving now from the Verizon site... Is anyone out here paying attention, or is everyone over at the branch library reading magazines? | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2484 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bottomline: I fail to see how your comment is germaine to this discussion. You are focusing on what can be done. My son's concern is about what should be done. By the way, I have not heard him refer to this as a make/break factor. rather he views this as a caution to be considered in site selection. As I have said many times in regard to this issue, there is no perfect solution here. If there were, the police station would have been completed by now. Also, the code you site determines the maximum allowable paving coverage. It is not a minimum requirement. | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2485 Registered: 5-2001 |
Art: I agree that the needs of the municipal court seem to have become an after thought in this process. The general thinking is that the two facilities should be in the same structure and the needs of the police department have been given greater weight for obvious reasons. None of the present plans I am familiar with would call for combining the police and fire departments in a single structure. So, unless there is another plan out there which would accomplish this or there is a potential fire hazard associated with any of the proposed locations, I fail to see why the fire chief's input would be crucial here. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2473 Registered: 9-2001 |
Joan, To the best of my knowledge, the desires of the municipal court have not been discussed publicly, at least not by our Judge or any representative from the court. However, it is common knowledge that many of the functions of the police and the court compliment each other, and thus should be located in the same structure. Combining the police and fire departments at the Verizon site has been a part of the towns plan from the beginning. The latest report indicates that it doesn’t fit into the present plan. Meanwhile, the fire chief's input on any public structure is always valuable. BTW, I went back over to the Verizon property today to recheck how the skate park would work. It was nice to see Ian Grodman arrive there too to check things out as well... Oh, the Verizon site would be a good location for the skate park! | ||
| Habanero2 Citizen Username: Habanero2 Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2003 |
Why do we need a new police station? Too many inmates or too many police men? Why do we need a new library? Why do we need to pay for public daycare? I don't ask you collectively to pay for my kids' daycare. Why stop with these? Why not a new firehouse (I am sure that is next)? Why not a new court house? All the public services could trade sites. Musical sites. We could tear down all public structures in Maplewood, move them 1 mile and rebuild them bigger, better, stronger. We could then raise the property taxes claiming it was for education. Where is all this money coming from? Doesn't anyone care? "You kids today have it easy. When I was a kid everything was HUGE. My dad was nearly four times bigger than me. You couldn't even see the tops of counters.... Then gradually everything became smaller until it was the manageable size it is today." | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2476 Registered: 9-2001 |
Why do we need a new police station? The present police headquarters and courthouse is obsolete, and the building is in need of extensive and costly repair. Why do we need a new library? We don’t! The proposal is only to move it to the Verizon site so the property can be developed for businesses and new ratable income. Why do we need to pay for public daycare? We don’t, and we won’t. The after school program and/or day care program will actually bring income to the town. Where is all this money coming from? From our property taxes. I believe from your post you’re against raising taxes and spending money unnecessarily. So am I! Doesn't anyone care? Yes, but what they care about, and what they’re willing to do about it is the better question. The town is going ahead with this project one-way or the other. I too want to do what is best for all concerned in Maplewood. Saving tax money and generating new ratables, while increasing the amount of town property and the services to our residents is my goal. If we agree, can we all try to get together for a common cause? I'm always available, just call me. | ||
| bottomline Citizen Username: Bottomline Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2003 |
Art, Our court administrator appeared at the January 20th Township Committee to make statements about the needs of the court in this project. He was generally supportive of the overall architectural designs but did not, to my recollection, express preference for any particular site. The police chief has also spoken often about the interaction between the police and the court. I believe the court’s needs have, indeed, been taken into account. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 438 Registered: 6-2003 |
No, the Verizon property would not be a good location for the skate park. It's an inconvenient location at the far edge of town. Something more central would be better. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2477 Registered: 9-2001 |
Thank you for sharing Bottomline, however, I happen to know that as of only a few days ago, no one has contacted the Judge for his input. On the other hand, it appears I must have missed the court administrator's appearance on January 20th... either way, I hope you're right when you say all the court’s needs have been taken into account. Montagnard, FYI, the tennis courts at DeHart Park, located right next to the Verizon property, was the township committee's choice for the skate park at their last meeting. And FWIW, it happens to be as convenient a location as the pool parking lot, or in the park in South Orange, which is out of town. If you’re still thinking something more central would be better, please let us in on your little secret as to where that may be, the kids are waiting... | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 439 Registered: 6-2003 |
Sure. Put it in Memorial Park. No need for the snide tone just because your ideas don't have universal appeal. BTW, if we thought that the TC made the right decisions 100% of the time, we wouldn't need elections. | ||
| jet Citizen Username: Jet Post Number: 370 Registered: 7-2001 |
Hey maybe we can put the dog run in the Verizon bldg. |
