| Author | Message | ||
     ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2525 Registered: 9-2001 |
Can anyone up date us what happened after I left? FWIW, I didn't get to speak, and the plan will not be considered unless we can overcome the objection that we have no other place in town to build the police station than the pool parking lot. They don't care at what cost it is to our town, or that other space would be purchased for recreational services in place of what we may use for the project... Without the township committee willing to fight for this plan, we have little or no chance to move this idea forward. We are prepared to fight for the best deal we can find, but we can't do it without more support from the tax payers. Is there any support out here for our plan at the pool parking lot? If so please speak up now, or forever hold your peace... | ||
| r2boy Citizen Username: R2boy Post Number: 141 Registered: 5-2001 |
Anybody know when the TC decided to vote on the site for the new police station? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2528 Registered: 9-2001 |
I recommended they don't rush it, but I believe it's Tuesday, March 16, 2004... I understand first hand that the litigation will be long, hard, and costly from the owner of one of the sites on the short list... Beware of the "Ides of March"  | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2543 Registered: 5-2001 |
Anyone willing to share the site selection advisory committee's recommendation (assuming this is public knowledge)? Art: We need to select a site for the new police station building and move forward. The sooner the TC makes a decision and follows through on it the better. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2529 Registered: 9-2001 |
Maplewood Tire 5 votes, Betty White 4 votes, Verizon, 2 votes, Dunnell Road 2 votes... I agree, but it needs to be the best site for the least amount of money. Nice trick if they can do it. Do you have any suggestions Joan? | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2002 |
Art, There were a numner of members of the advisory board not present. I'm fairly sure that their opinion will be asked. However, using a set of criteria agreed upon by all present and using a resonable weighting factor, we looked at a number of scenarios and even added and subtracted certain critera such as the importance of locating the PD on SA and the results still came out essentially the same. The analysis in all cases indicated that the Betty White site was the best. At the end of the meeting, an anonymous vote was taken and the results were as you stated above. The TC and visitors did not vote. I feel that a decision needs to be made. If we continue to be paralyzed by a need to make EVERYONE happy, we will get nowhere. The reality is that no matter where we build the PD, we'll make it work and it won't be the end of the world. We seem to be acting as if a wrong decision (if there is one) will be a complete disaster! It's just a building. The police deparment itself will be ok with any of the choices. Some people MIGHT be inconvenienced......soooooo what? | ||
| Addy Citizen Username: Addy Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2003  |
I don't think Maplewood Tire is large enough. Let's demolish that silly little library and put it there. Why remove taxable land from the community? | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2548 Registered: 5-2001 |
Art: From among the alternatives you mentioned in your post, I would favor Vic's proposal of taking the presently vacant portions of the two Springfield Avenue sites. We would get all of the advantages of that location without losing viable businesses which have a long history of commitment to our town. If that option is not available, I would favor keeping the police statin at the present location and expanding to either of the neighboring properties. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2535 Registered: 9-2001 |
Joan, I’m afraid this is part of the problem the township committee has at the moment, there’s too many cooks in the kitchen. Furthermore, I think it’s about time I take off the gloves here. Personally, I’ve heard just about enough of Vic and his opinions on how Maplewood should be run. For openers, if he ever wants a voice in this town again, he better get back on line where real people are talking... Listen, from one cook to another, IMO, from among all the alternatives ever mentioned, Vic’s is by far the worst. And, FWIW, he has already made more than his fair share of mistakes thus far. If he and his sidekick had any vision for Springfield Avenue, why did they waste so much time and our tax money on all the other proposals for the police department that have failed to date? By far the biggest mistake on the Avenue was years ago when both Vic and Jerry failed to recognize the importance of moving on the Apter Funeral site for our new police department. Then when the opportunity presented itself again, they ran from the fight with the Church of Ladder Day Saints. Their idea to use the branch library was, and still is an acceptable location, but again they turned and ran from the fight. Can anyone tell us how much time and money these two wasted on their Verizon site plan? Well, on the other hand, they have had some successes. They were at least able to convince the town’s Board of Adjustment not to settle the bed and breakfast litigation that has gone on for over two years. However, the problem is that under their direction, the town has also lost all three Superior Court cases to date on this issue as well. I believe one reason, on the long list of reasons to fight on, was for “Principle”! They want people to believe the town will look bad and others in the future might take advantage of us… What a sad and ill-advised fabrication! I believe the truth is they really feel my pockets are not deep enough and the towns are? Joan, please correct me if I’m wrong. As I understand it, Vic’s last proposal that he published in the News Record, favored using property on both sides of the Avenue. Now if you want to talk about attracting new economic development to the Avenue, this would be the last thing anyone would want to do. I’m not going to go into all the reasons again, but figure it this way, how many bites of the apple do we give these guys? And as you’re suggesting, relocating residents and the taking of any viable businesses along the Avenue, or for that matter anywhere in town where there is a long history of commitment to our community, is a mistake. DON'T MESS AROUND WITH LONG TIME RESIDENTS OF MAPLEWOOD... BTW, using the police station at the present location and expanding to either of the neighboring properties carries with it the responsibility of spending $12 million dollars in a flood zone. Because there are interesting possibilities there for additional parking for our town, I spoke at length with officials both in Engineering and the Police Department. Besides the fact that the police station has always had a water problem in their basement, should another flood occur, how stupid would our town look trying to get to our emergency control center located under a branch of the Rahway River? | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2558 Registered: 5-2001 |
Art: I know Vic isn't your favorite person just now but that doesn't mean that all of his ideas are bad. As you no doubt know if you have seen the proposal, Vic suggests that the entire police department building be placed on the Maplewood Tire side of SA on the lot to be vacated by the automobile dealership and that provision for additional parking be placed on the other side of the Avenue. This seems pretty reasonable to me since the land in question is relatively undeveloped and is not presently being used by active businesses/residents. I haven't seen the cost figures on the present police site but 12 million dollars sounds low compared to the final cost of developing the Verizon site. New construction or gut rehab costs for the police department building structure alone were estimated at ten million dollars for that location. A decent engineer could design the new police building so that flooding would not be a consideration. Yes it would cost money to do this. (Is that figure included in the 12 million dollar figure you quoted?) The two sites being considered on SA aren't exactly on high ground either. Maplecrest Park right next door is in a flood zone too. Anyone know if this pertains to either or both of the proposed SA sites? | ||
| Habanero2 Citizen Username: Habanero2 Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2003 |
Joan, Do you have any clue what you just said? $12 mil is the full-year property taxes of 1,200 Maplewood homes assuming an average tax bill of $10,000 (the average is probably lower than that but I will give Joan the benefit of the doubt). It is more considering Newark takes as much as they want first. That is a S-Load of homes full year taxes. What are you people doing? Cops should be on the street working, not in a $12 mil police house. Stop spending my money... "You kids today have it easy. When I was a kid everything was HUGE. My dad was nearly four times bigger than me. You couldn't even see the tops of counters.... Then gradually everything became smaller until it was the manageable size it is today." | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2543 Registered: 9-2001 |
“I know Vic isn't your favorite person just now but that doesn't mean that all of his ideas are bad.” It also doesn’t mean that I don’t respect all his hard work and dedication to our community over the years, because I do… However, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Listen, if picking the location for the new police headquarters were a game of baseball, he would have struck out already. Joan, what makes you think this idea is any better than any of the others that failed? And BTW, where is that additional parking on the other side of the Avenue you’re both talking about? Listen, if they consider the parking lot at the pool Green Acres, I can’t believe the parking lot for Maplecrest Park isn’t as well. Plus, I don’t believe that hiking back and forth across the busiest street in town, in all kinds of weather, is what anyone really has in mind as the ideal way to handle this problem. I believe everyone knows that all the costs involved are very important factors in making decisions on any of the four sites. As far as I know, no one knows what the acquisition costs are at any of these properties. Therefore, how can an intelligent decision be made about where to build until they know what the bottom line is? Really, how far can we go with planning this project if we don’t have all the information at our disposal? And then there is the “5th Dimension Factor”, which I see as the pool parking lot plan that should also be part of any considerations now being looked at. I know, I know… Green Acres! But Joan, there are many obstacles ahead at every site on the board, and IMHO, "all" the cards, (town properties) including the branch library should be on the table... | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2560 Registered: 5-2001 |
Art: I guess my $12 million dollar comment wasn't clear. The point I was trying to make is that the Verizon site will cost at least that much once all the costs are factored in. It is doubtful that either of the SA sites will end up being much less expensive, especially when the cost of lost business and homes which have become an integral part of that neighborhood are factored in. If the town is committed to the concept of a new police station which will house the entire police department, then this seems to be the price range we are talking about. It's time you and everyone else realized that. Cheaper would be to adopt a plan Ken was advocating months ago where the current police building would be used to house most of the day to day activities of the police department and the rest would be incorpoated in a separate building on SA. There are operational considerations which might make this plan less feasible. These include the Police Chief's unwillingness to share space with a commercial enterprise, which would limit us to a stand alone/dedicated structure and perceived difficulties in dividing the Police department's operations effectively between the two structures. Of course, we could always do the fiscally responsible thing and permit the poor conditions at the Police Station to continue indefinitely. | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2561 Registered: 5-2001 |
What makes me think this (Vic's) idea is better that any of the others that have failed? Since the town hasn't broken ground yet on any of the sites, it's a bit premature to describe any of the prior proposals as failing. Rather, there were legal blocks to using some of the sites under discussion which precluded their being viable alternatives. I don't believe that any of the sites under consideration are perfect. If the town were being built for the first time like some Sim City simulation, the alternatives available and cost of construction would be very different (alternative sites much more desireable; construction/development costs much lower). In a write your own scenario situation we would be able to pool our experience and expertise to design a town which would be perfect in every way. Unfortunately, there are a significant number of givens that we have to deal with that will have a major impact on the final site selection determination and on the future of our town. It's more a question of selecting the least of the evils. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2546 Registered: 9-2001 |
Am I reading you right? "...pool our experience and expertise to design a town which would be perfect in every way." This is what I've been saying, use the pool site and it would be perfect in every way...  Joan, you're too much, I can't keep up with you. | ||
| r2boy Citizen Username: R2boy Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2001 |
Any and all those interested in where the town decides to build the new police hdqtrs should plan on attending the special mtg this Tuesday,March 23rd at 7:30 in Town Hall. The notice in today's NR stated that this is a special mtg with no other business.Following public comment the TC will discuss and take a VOTE setting the site. | ||
| Joan Citizen Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 2602 Registered: 5-2001 |
Anyone care to predict what the final decision will be? Please specify an actual location. Predictions that the vote will be postponed yet again while another unforseen contigency is explored don't count. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 2564 Registered: 9-2001 |
It's clear from what information I've seen and heard that the Betty White site is the odds on favorite... What a shame... | ||
| r2boy Citizen Username: R2boy Post Number: 147 Registered: 5-2001 |
Double shame,Art...makes no sense to me. To take a thriving fully occupied bldg and tear it down is very upsetting to me.Just leave the empty gas station sites and adult film place and all those ugly car lots standing....Is this really progress? | ||
| Soda Citizen Username: Soda Post Number: 1212 Registered: 5-2001  |
My guess:  |
