| Author | Message | ||
     fredsmom Citizen Username: Fredsmom Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2002 |
It was so hot yesterday that we went out for ice cream, but the Stony Hill Creamery was CLOSED! It didn't go out of business....did it? That would be a major disaster. We peered through the door and it didn't look so great in there, kind of all shuffled around and disorganized. | ||
| Soda Citizen Username: Soda Post Number: 763 Registered: 5-2001  |
The place has been up for sale for over a year, so it'd be no big surprise to see it finally close.  | ||
| nsolomon Citizen Username: Nsolomon Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2001 |
I had the same experience and now see that the store is indeed closed and it looks like a catering business is opening there. No! Please no! Not another catering business. And not there. I've heard that the problem for businesses in SO are the high rents. Any one confirm this? I'm ready to stop complaining and get involved. Any ideas on what we citizens can do to revitalize our downtown? Nancy | ||
| noracoombs Citizen Username: Noracoombs Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm with you, Nancy! The number of empty storefronts along South Orange Avenue is really starting to be frightening. It's very frustrating that the town seem to be putting lots of effort into projects like an Arts Center, when filling those storefronts should be the real priority. I suppose everyone could make an extra effort to patronize the stores that already exist--but I'd like to hear other suggestions for revitalization as well. | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2002 |
Although the town may have a role in luring new businesses, the town does not own these properties. In the end it is the landlords of the property that are to blame. Case in point: A very good friend of mine was looking to open a nice retail store in SO, and a landlord who owns a lot of property in town was not willing to negotiate on any points in his 70-page lease -- it was take it or leave it. He was in no hurry to lease the space. He absolutely did not care if the space remained empty for months or years. (And I am not willing to say who it was.) Does the town have any authority to mandate a landlord to lease his space? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2002 |
One would think that the landlords would want to rent out their stores and with empty stores to choose from that a free marketplace would dictate the rents. However, shoshannah is correct when she says some landlords are not willing to negotiate on their leases (you might find out that these same landlords have empty storefronts in other towns too). I cannot explain the logic or the math. Nsolomon A good place to get involved would be with main street. They are mostly a volunteer organization whose primary goal is the downtown whether it be running events, the farmers market and trying to help attract businesses to the village. | ||
| dgm Citizen Username: Dgm Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have heard (right or wrong, I'm not sure) that these landlords receive a tax benefit that allows them to use losses on rental properties in SO to offset other profits. Therefore there is no incentive to lease if you have a couple of very profitable other ventures. This is(if I am right) one of those laws that was meant to benefit landlords that were losing in the downmarket which SO had for many years. Now it is just a blight on a promising town. I think New Jersey Transit is the landlord for the ex-creamery. | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mrosner, you are right that the math doesn't add up. The property that my friend was interested in had been empty for eight months. The landlord took a posture that he just did not care whether the space was vacant or leased. It was just so odd. And the lease he insisted on was extremely slanted toward the landloard, for example, the lessee had to be responsible for the heating and air conditioning plant in the building! How can a small-business owner take responsibility for that? The point that dgm makes sense, given how this landlord was acting. And mrosner is right --this landlord owns multiple properties in Millburn as well, many of which have been empty for long periods. And BTW, the landlord wasn't NJ Transit; it was an individual. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2002 |
NJTRansit owns the propery for the creamery, but they are not the landlord. Lokko-motive properties (or something like that) is the managing agent for them and has been pretty diligent about keeping those properties rented. | ||
| nsolomon Citizen Username: Nsolomon Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2001 |
Your responses do seem to confirm one problem, that rents are high and the free market isn't working. I disagree, however, that the city's efforts to build the arts center is not the right priority. I believe the opposite -- the delay continues to hurt us. Having a cinema should be a great boost. I think the delay in getting a grocery is also hurting us. Mrosner, what is the structure of Main Street? Open meetings? How are decisions made? This tax benefit -- can anyone confirm this? Is it a local program, or larger? NS | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2002 |
Nsolomon: Main Street is a volunteer organization with one paid employee who is the executive director. They are partially funded by the village under an agreement that is reviewed annually. Their phone number is (973) 763-6899. Rob Fisch is currently the President. They have several committees and most of their meetings are open. I do not know of what tax benefit that was posted above. I agree that the delays with both projects have not helped the process and both do seem to be back on track. The developer of the supermarket is scheduled to meet with the planning board in November. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Elizabeth Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2002 |
Shoshanna--can you post the name of the mean-spirited landlord? I assume it's someone who doesn't live in South Orange, and therefore doesn't care what happens to our town--but even so, if the names of such landlords were known, maybe some public pressure could help change their attitudes. | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2002 |
Elizabeth, I'd have to ask my friend if she would mind if I posted the name. She is still looking for space in SO and other nearby towns where this landlord is well-known... That said, maybe Main Street can just send a letter to the owners of vacant properties or try to meet with them to put pressure on them to lease their spaces. The town can only do so much -- in the end, it is up to the landlords, and it appears that they have no incentive to lease their spaces. | ||
| kathy Citizen Username: Kathy Post Number: 410 Registered: 5-2001 |
"Well-known" is hardly the term for the landlord in question. "Notorious" would be closer. He has been causing the same kinds of problems in SO for at least 15 years. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Elizabeth Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2002 |
I've lived in South Orange a little over two years. Until I read this thread I had no idea that a "notorious" landlord was responsible for some of the blight in SO. For all I know I am guilty of patronizing some other of his enterprises--out of sheer ignorance of who he is and what his business interests are. I lived in Philadelphia when the beautiful, architecturally historic Victory building was just barely saved from demolition by the "notorious" Samuel Rappaport. Rappaport's investment strategy--which consisted of buying LOTS of property all over Center City, letting it rot so that he could tear the building down and then selling the land when prices were high enough--was all over the newspapers when it looked like the Victory building was going under the wrecking ball. (I like to think that at the very least Mr. Rappaport had some uncomfortable moments at cocktail parties when his lack of civic mindedness became so widely known.) How do I make sure I don't inadvertently line "Notorious's" pockets if he is in some other boycotable business? Do "Notorious's" neighbors realize that he's the kind of guy he is? Has any newspaper published a story about "notorious's" role in the stalled development of downtown SO? Rappaport died and the Victory building was bought by a civic minded group that restored it. Is "Notorious" on his last legs, by any chance? | ||
| wharfrat Citizen Username: Wharfrat Post Number: 596 Registered: 6-2001 |
FWIW- I went to Stony Hill a number of times and wasn't impressed. I found their ice cream lacked flavor and texture. It was also overpriced. Seems to me they would have stayed in business if they had a product more people liked. There's a decent ice cream place in the valley on the Orange/West Orange border called Crossroads that's pretty good. Decent ice cream, fair prices for LARGE servings. The decor is funky, with lots of couches and tables. | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 94 Registered: 5-2001 |
Most people I know enjoyed going to the creamery, however the reality was it was not something that could be done every night. The biggest problem with downtown South Orange is that there is no reason to come here. The Arts Center is an attempt to fix that, but the reality is that is at least 2-3 years away. I have said numerous times that a large number of restaurants, especially with outdoor seating in the nicer weather would make the town more attractive (& safer due to the number of people out on the street). I get chastised for looking to Hoboken as a model, but I challenge anyone to walk down "main street" in Hoboken any evening of the week & not be in awe of the number of people eating out in the huge number of restaurants. | ||
| deborahg Citizen Username: Deborahg Post Number: 361 Registered: 5-2001  |
I lived in Hoboken for years, and liked it, but the fundamental difference is that the town has a huge single population. I used to eat out almost every night when I lived there...now, with three kids, we're lucky to get take-out every week or so.  | ||
| Summersby Citizen Username: Summersby Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2002 |
I agree with Wharfrat about their ice cream. It was subpar. I would order mint chocolate chip, and it wasnt very minty and the chips were barely there. While they didnt make great ice cream, I didnt want to see them leave. Oh well, Hopefully something good will replace it. I hope that some of the land owners wake up and let this town grow to its potential. | ||
| Elizabeth Citizen Username: Elizabeth Post Number: 50 Registered: 7-2002 |
A. My family was among the first customers of Stony Hill Creamery. We were not impressed and never went back. I'd love it if Toscanini's (Cambridge, Mass) would open a branch in SO . . . B. The info about the un-civic-minded landlord worries me. What if I could convince Toscanini's to be interested in SO and they came up against this kind of landlord problem??? |
